Logo Use - Mandatory Linkback

[Scott]

The IAP Board of Directors voted to require that if the IAP logo is used on a website, that it include a linkback to the IAP Website. Do you, the members, agree with the requirement of a linkback? Or are you opposed to a mandatory linkback?

 

[Scott]

Hi Everybody!

The Board has been working hard to provide the things our members want! We feel that the IAP logo, being a graphic representation of our organization, needs to be used in a manner that reflects positively on the IAP. We are an educational organization. But we do understand that some members market their pens on their websites, and do not wish to linkback to the IAP webpage.

Please take the time to vote in this straw poll. Let us know what you think! The options, as I see it are to require the linkback, or to make it optional. I encourage active discussion on this topic! But be aware that flaming or derogatory comments will be pulled. Make this a respectful discussion!

As for my own feelings on this topic, I like the idea of a mandatory linkback! I think I may have been the one who suggested it! I feel that the use of our logo by an individual should be according to the rules of the IAP. It is not open source â€" we own it! I also feel that, as an educational organization, a linkback to our site promotes our educational purpose!

Now, what do you think?

 

[woodpens]

Although I respect the decision as it currently stands to have the link, it would prevent me from displaying it on my website. This is strictly a business decision. My business makes my house payment, and my loyalty must first be to my family. One way to look at the situation is as follows. I prominently display the logo on my site without the link. A pen turner or potential pen turner notices it, and emails me about it. I would then gladly point him in the right direction. This scenario actually happened several times with the Pen Makers Guild logo that is posted on my home page. I can say that one PMG member is now a member because of this. I suspect the IAP logo would produce many more new members as the membership requirements here are not quite so stiff. []

I have pen turners ask to join my Pen Gallery about once a week, so I am sure I have many pass through that could take notice of the IAP logo and ask about it. My vote goes to not requiring the link.

Respectfully yours,

 

[Gary]

I do not like the idea of a mandatory link back, and if it is required I will not use the logo on the web site I'm having designed. In real life, I'm a sales rep representing a host of companies, and I belong to several Trade Associations. Each and every one of them allows me to use their logo on my web site, and none of them requires me to link back to their home page. I think it is a ill-conceived idea for this Association to require a link back. If the requirement to link prevails, I'll just pass on use of the logo and use this forum for what it is...a fine source of information exchange.

 

[Andy Ryan]

What if a person was to use the "member logo" on their web site? Then would they have to have the mandatory link to IAP?

They still would be following the rule yet supporting the group. Perhaps what I’m trying to suggest is an inarticulate compromise.(forgive the spelling)

I follow this web site for the enjoyment. And I did not vote because It dose not matter to me. But for some it dose.

P.S. Well said Gary

 

[KKingery]

Just a thought.....if a person sees the IAP logo, and they click on it, they come to the home page....right? Well, if they see the logo (without the link), and they do a search on the web for the IAP, would'nt they end up on the homepage anyway? If that's the case, I don't understand what difference it makes? The only difference would be that the person would have to do a few extra steps to end up on the homepage...is my thinking right, or am I missing something?

 

[Gary]

Ken, the difference is Marketing. If someone finds the IAP on a search that's fine. I don't want them coming to my web site where I sell pens and then have them link from there to my competitors here at IAP (even though they are my friends here).

If I'm looking for UHMW Plastic Stock, I would likely go to DuPont's web site to see their products. I sure as heck won't find a link there to Monsanto.

 

[timdaleiden]

Can you guess how I feel??[]

It would be pointless for me to put the LOGO on my site, and have it link back to here. Many posters here have their website address in their sig. I have enough trouble trying to get people to my site in the first place. Pointing potential customers to a large gathering of penturners is counterintuitive.

If a penturner stumbles across my site, they may be curious enough about the LOGO to do a Google search on it.

If I have to "link it", I will not use it. That does make me sad. Being a lone craftsman is not easy sometimes. Showing that I care enough about my work to become a member of an educational organization is a plus for me, from a sales standpoint. If my work sucks, my website doesn't work, or my prices are way out of line, then it won't help me one bit.

On a side note, will there be a version that uses "Proud Member" rather than just "Member"? Also, why didn't anybody ask me to help with the minor alterations that were done on the LOGO? I have had many compliments on my growing skills using PSP.

 

[dougle40]

This is from someone who doesn't have a web site but would like to add my views on the subject .

While adding a link to the IAP would greatly benefit the IAP it <b>could</b> be a detriment to the web site owner . Case in point -- a viewer goes to the site and sees the link to the IAP and , curiosity being what it is , links up and does find this site ,and what with all the traffic and information generated here , the odds are pretty good that that person will not return to the original site and the owner would have lost a potential customer . I know that I've been guilty of doing just that on several occasions .

As I've said , I don't have a web site as of now but if I decide to start one in the future I personally wouldn't want an actual link (an address would be alright) on my site that would direct a potential customer away from looking further into my site .

Thats just my $0.02 worth and the only reason for voting NO on this poll .

 

[Fred in NC]

If there is anybody in this group who sells pens, and would put a link to IAP in his/her web site, please speak up!

EDITED: Other than the president and board members!

 

[DCBluesman]

I have a website. I sell pens (not many). I will abide by the rules.

Originally posted by Fred in NC
<br />If there is anybody in this group who sells pens, and would put a link to IAP in his/her web site, please speak up!

 

[jeff]

Originally posted by timdaleiden...Also, why didn't anybody ask me to help with the minor alterations that were done on the LOGO? I have had many compliments on my growing skills using PSP.

Tim,

I'll answer this here because I don't want anyone to think we're excluding you from an opportunity to help us with the logo.

The last time you and I communicated about the logo, you were helping us get the EPS file from your brother. In my email to you (6/20/2004) requesting this, I explained that we wanted the artwork so that we could make some changes and we did not want to bother your brother for minor alterations. I even said that I was open to your brother making the changes if he did not want to release the original.

So, you knew we needed to make some changes, and you knew we were open to having someone else do them, but you never mentioned that you were interested or had the tools and skills to do the work. When your situation changed to where you wanted to help out, a short email to me would have gotten you in the loop long ago.

That said, yes, I would like some help with the logos. Shoot me an email if want to help and I'll tell you what we currently are wanting to do.

Many Thanks

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

I have a website. I have a links page. I *DO* have a link to IAP on it. I am also of the opinion it can be optional, since - as many have said, if they want to know what the IAP is, they can Google.

One interesting point is... If a person sees the logo on your website, I would tend to think they would want to know "what is the IAP". With no link back, they may consider the logo and say "So! I don't know what the IAP is." In otherwords, if you don't want them to know what the IAP is, don't bother with the logo itself. It would only serve to raise a question you clearly don't want your customers to ask.

Just a thought.

 

[Gary]

Lou...delete your post, Fred excluded Presidents with conflicts of interest[B)]

 

[melogic]

I sell pens from my site, I am a proud member of the IAP and I will continue to have the link back on my site no matter what comes out of this. If I have the logo on my site, linked back or not, people can still go to google or wherever and come to the IAP. What is everyone's problem? How many people have lost sales due to this and how many sales are we talking? I think everyone is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Gary]

The problem is simple...why direct your competition to a competitor, friend or not?

Originally posted by melogic
<br />I sell pens from my site, I am a proud member of the IAP and I will continue to have the link back on my site no matter what comes out of this. If I have the logo on my site, linked back or not, people can still go to google or wherever and come to the IAP. What is everyone's problem? How many people have lost sales due to this and how many sales are we talking? I think everyone is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[timdaleiden]

&gt;&gt;&gt;So, you knew we needed to make some changes, and you knew we were open to having someone else do them, but you never mentioned that you were interested or had the tools and skills to do the work. When your situation changed to where you wanted to help out, a short email to me would have gotten you in the loop long ago.&lt;&lt;&lt;

Jeff,

When we last spoke about the LOGO, you said you had somebody working on it. I was not particularly happy with what my brother sent me as the original files. In PSP, the letters showed up as being skewed. I am not sure if this was the same if opened with an Adobe software application. My brother is a great guy...for a while at least. I wasn't sure if this was a problem with my software, or his sense of humor.

I will e-mail.

 

[C_Ludwigsen]

Okay, this is purely meant to inject a touch of humor to this topic...

I found a company that gladly refers you to their competition - they even tell you how much their competition will charge you...

Progressive Auto Insurance []

 

[Gary]

First, if you look at my previous posts I've voted NO with regards to the IAP link back. My input now is simply to share with the Board a thought. When you accepted the idea to run as a Board Member, you put yourself in the position of making decsions that affected peoples lives and livelihoods. If you didn't think of that, then woe be to you. Please don't make decisions withought researching them...that's what Board Members are supposed to do. Get the facts then make a decision. Did you do that in this case?

 

[Randy_]

Seems to me that some folks are missing or ignoring the point, here. IAP's "job" is to sustain and promote itself as best it can. It was not created for the purpose of fostering a few pen sellers and enhancing their business. As I understand it the logo belongs to IAP and they are entitled to use it as they see fit in the best interest of the IAP.

Anyone who is not comfortable with "rules of use" should simply abstain from using the logo!!

 

[RussFairfield]

I think there is a misunderstanding of the concept behind the IAP. I would suggest that we go back and read, Article 2 - Mission Statement, of the IAP By-Laws. It uses such words as promotion of pencrafting as a viable art form, education, innovation, finding sources for materials, a place to discuss a common interest, etc. NOWHERE do I see anything about marketing, sales promotion, or advertising.

That doesn't mean that the IAP couldn't evolve into a marketing organization and a sales tool as it matures. But it will take a different Board of Directors, and a major revision of the By-Laws to make that happen. Anyone wanting such change only has to run for a Board position when the 3 (or is it 4) 1-years terms expire later this year.

Meanwhile, it seems to me that the Board is doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing within the provisions of the By-Laws. I support them in their efforts to hold firm to the Mission of the IAP, and their promotion of the IAP as an organization.

 

[woodpens]

Originally posted by C_Ludwigsen
<br />Okay, this is purely meant to inject a touch of humor to this topic...

I found a company that gladly refers you to their competition - they even tell you how much their competition will charge you...

Progressive Auto Insurance []

That is EXACTLY why I now have ALFA Insurance. I used to have Progressive, but adding my 16 year old son made leaving Progressive the better option. I appreciated their referral. []

 

[woodscavenger]

Why not a link to a basic organization information webpage with basics on how much work it take to handcraft a pen. You don't need to give a link to everybody else selling them. You don't need to quote prices. But give information about what it takes to do this and do it well. People can access the main pages if they search for them. I would bet most people looking to buy don't care to read the boards and don't care to look through everybody's profile to find someone new to buy from.

 

[Doghouse]

How about a third choice.

Member version does not require a link (only says they are a member)
Penturners.org version must have the link because it is to promote the site not the person.

That should solve the problem for most people. In MY opinion. Feel free to disagree!

 

[Old Griz]

John, I have no problem with that option.... I would gladly use the Member logo under those circumstances...

 

[timdaleiden]

Just something to think about. Why were there provisions made for somebody to put the LOGO on their business cards? Why would somebody put the LOGO on their card? I have it on mine, right along with the PMG LOGO.

 

[RussFairfield]

I am having a hard time understanding the arguments against the linking to the IAP logo. Are you sure you want to go where this is taking you??

If there is a concern that someone is going to find a competing commercial website on the IAP pages, the obvious solution is to eliminate all links to personal websites with commercial content from the IAP pages. My logic is that, if this is an educational forum, why do we allow links to any website whose objective is selling pens??

If a link to the IAP webpages is a problem for those who are selling pens, then someone coming here from a Google search could present a bigger problem. I have sold seven (7) fountain pens from inquiries that were made after seeing my photo album here on the IAP site. These were not IAP members. How did they get here?? Probably a Google search. Does that make my photo album an advertisement?? Do I owe the IAP a commission? Do I have to close my photo album because it is an advertisement??

I am just following the path where this is going.

 

[wayneis]

I think that it's a joke if you think that anyone would put the logo on a business card or web site ONLY to promote the IAP. If someone is going to take up space on a card or web site its because they think that it will help promote their product. I don't have a web site and if things go right I won't need one but if I did I would not put anyones logo on the site or card. Thats just inviting your customers to look else where and its telling them where to look.

If I were in the business of selling supplies to individuals that make pens like us then it would make sense to put the logo on my site. I've learned a lot here and I enjoy helping other with what I've learned. That is what this site is about, learning, sharing and teaching, it's not a marketing orginazation.

Wayne

 

[Gary]

The message below I posted last night, and it has been perceived by at least one person as inflammatory. It was certainly not meant to be. I respect our Board members and am thankful for the time they donate to this forum. I wrote the message as a member to his elected representative, and I meant it to be constructive, not inflammatory or critical. I was simply urging each member of the Board to seriously weigh the information at hand and do dilligence before voting on any topic. While reading the message a day later, I see where it could have been worded better. If any of the Board feels it was out of line, then please know that I was not being critical of you or anything you've done. You have a difficult task to say the least.

Earlier post:

First, if you look at my previous posts I've voted NO with regards to the IAP link back. My input now is simply to share with the Board a thought. When you accepted the idea to run as a Board Member, you put yourself in the position of making decsions that affected peoples lives and livelihoods. If you didn't think of that, then woe be to you. Please don't make decisions withought researching them...that's what Board Members are supposed to do. Get the facts then make a decision. Did you do that in this case?

 

[Scott]

Gary,

I was the one who pulled the posts. If you look carefully you'll see that the post you mention was NOT one that was pulled. I think you should have the right to question how your Board makes a decision. And while I agree that maybe it could have been worded better, it raised what I felt were positive issues.

The Board did discuss the issues of rules for Logo use very carefully before voting to implement them. Did we run a poll? No! And we will not poll the membership for every issue. Whether or not to post THIS poll was not a unanimous vote by the Board. But I encouraged it because it is possible we missed the issue on the mandatory linkback, and we want to know.

Your Board members are members if the IAP just like you. When we vote on an issue we are voting as representatives of all the members here. If I am not representing the membership, I hope I will be voted out! But not everyone will agree on any issue. We will not change the way we do things just because a vocal few are against what we do. But if we begin to see the opposition to our actions become a consensus of the membership, it behooves us to pay attention.

That is why I startd the poll. That is why I left your earlier post. But I will not allow any posts that take this discussion in any direction other than constructive and respectful.

I hope this answers your questions and encourages people to speak up on this issue!

Scott.

 

[TheHeretic]

While I have not voted yet as I am still trying to get an idea from both sides I would tend to agree with Russ. There are plenty of organizations thorughout the US and world that have logos for member use. They are used freely on websites with linkback. I personally doubt if this causes problems for them.

The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the BBB. Many sites I have been to have the BBB logo and links to the local BBB for the person. I would seriously doubt that this hinders them as they have just given link to, theoreticly, many competitors.

AS I have typed this I have come to the conclusion and will go back and vote for the linkback. This is a professional organization and the use of its logo should be done by its bylaws. One should have a sense of pride when using it. When I finally get my website up and running I will use it with pride. I personally, while not at the level of some of the master pencrafters, am not afraid of some competition.


Dean
Columbus OH

 

[Gary]

Scott, I understand. I have no problem with your action. I sent you an email earlier today. It wasn't you that I was referring to when I said at least one person perceived my post as inflamatory. I made this post as an explanation to the Board members and to let them know I wasn't being a jerk.

Originally posted by Scott
<br />Gary,

I was the one who pulled the posts. If you look carefully you'll see that the post you mention was NOT one that was pulled....

I hope this answers your questions and encourages people to speak up on this issue!

Scott.

 

[Scott]

That's cool! I was going to post most of this stuff anyway, and it just kind of "became" a response to your post. I'll have to check my E-Mail! ;-)

Scott

 

[Mudder]

I believe in a mandatory linkback.

Many places reqiure this for the right to use the logo.

If you don't want to link back to the IAP then you should not be allowed to use the logo.

I also believe that if you will not link back to the IAP you should not put a link to your site in your tagline.





[If I'm looking for UHMW Plastic Stock, I would likely go to DuPont's web site to see their products. I sure as heck won't find a link there to Monsanto.
Go to Top of Page

This is a forum, I doubt you would find a forum on UHMW plastic that did not include both.

This is my opinion, yours may differ

 

[btboone]

I have no problem with the link. I'm not yet serious about offering a lot of pen offerings at reasonable prices on my site. I'm not ready to mass produce cheaper ones at this point. I still need to figure out my niche and pricing with better pictures of options, yet not take away from my time spent on other stuff. When I get to that point, I would promote the pens better, including the link.

There will always be someone who will make things cheaper. The challenge for any of us is to appeal to a certain market with products that ring their bell. The pens can't be like everyone else's, and when they are different and appealing enough, there is no harm in having them learn what else is out there. The adventurous ones will be searching on the internet and see what's out there anyway.

 

[Woodbutcher68]

I don't see a problem with a linkback. I don't have a website, but if I did, I'd use it. Somebody who used my site, then linked here might find another penmaker to buy from, but then again, somebody could find my site from his.

 

[DCBluesman]

Gary--I want to take just a little of this space to offer my formal and public apology for my post directed at you last night. It was ill-conceived at best and showed a lack of good judgement on my part. I hope you will consider accepting my apology. I also apologize to the rest of the membership. I will more carefully consider each and every one of my posts going forward.

 

[Gary]

Thanks Lou, that's really classy of you...apology accepted. Let me also say that I shouldn't have fired back at you the way I did either. I could have and should have handled it in a much nicer way. Lets you and I just go on and consider it a nothing more than a heated exchange and no damage done.

Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />Gary--I want to take just a little of this space to offer my formal and public apology for my post directed at you last night. It was ill-conceived at best and showed a lack of good judgement on my part. I hope you will consider accepting my apology. I also apologize to the rest of the membership. I will more carefully consider each and every one of my posts going forward.

 

[wdcav1952]

Originally posted by Mudder
<br />I believe in a mandatory linkback.

Many places reqiure this for the right to use the logo.

If you don't want to link back to the IAP then you should not be allowed to use the logo.

I also believe that if you will not link back to the IAP you should not put a link to your site in your tagline.





[If I'm looking for UHMW Plastic Stock, I would likely go to DuPont's web site to see their products. I sure as heck won't find a link there to Monsanto.
Go to Top of Page

This is a forum, I doubt you would find a forum on UHMW plastic that did not include both.

This is my opinion, yours may differ

Interesting twist on the discussion Mudder. I don't have a website so I have followed the discussion out of casual interest. Your point is excellent, though.

 

[opfoto]

Having just started penturning, and happily finding this forum with no website to post the logo on in the forseeable future... I feel compelled to vote against the mandatory link back. I, as a new member will promote the art, craft of penturning and now the newfound IAP as much as possible thru the various means that I have available. And I have read the other forums regarding this discussion and wish for it to be resolved in a way so that most can agree where it benefits us all as a group and as individuals. Thanks for considering a possible vote. BTW Happy Belated Birthday to the IAP and I especially wish for <u><b>MANY, MANY </b></u>more. Marc