Band saw blades --Carbide?

[ed4copies]

So, I'm replacing band saw blades every couple weeks. (Polyresin blocks fight back) So, my cheap blades give up. Well, if I spend about three times as much, I can get carbide. SOOOOoooooo, here's the question:

Comparing carbide to regular steel blades (cheapest possible), your carbide blades will last:


Comments are also welcome.

IF YOU HAPPEN to KNOW something (you're in this industry) and don't want to post it, please feel free to PM me - This question is becoming worth research, based on the amount of cutting I am doing, I appreciate any "informed opinions".

THANKS!!!

 

[spiritwoodturner]

Good darn question, Ed. I use the Jet blades from Amazon, they're so cheap. But changing them on a Jet 20" is no picnic, so I'll be interested to hear from others whether it's worth it. I would factor in the headache of changing them into the equation.

Wish I could vote on this, but I can't.

Dale

 

[artistwood]

ed, see if this helps. it's an article about lennox blades. typicaly, cheap carbide will last 3-4 times longer in a circular saw even with cutting nails. i bought a 60 dollar bandsaw blade for my delta, i don't rember the brand, and after 6 years it's still scary sharp...teeth are impregnated with carbide but not tipped. tipped blades should last even longer i think. on acrylics it might last a whole lot longer.....bear


http://www.woodworking.org/WC/GArchive99/8_23mattband.html

 

[hewunch]

All I know is this place makes good ones and inexpensive. I was turned on to them recently by a place that cuts hundreds of bowl blanks a week.

http://spencedistributors.com/index.cfm

 

[THarvey]

If you were cutting wood, I would say go with the carbide blades.

Since you are cutting mostly resin, I doubt you will see a meaningful life increase with carbide. The resin builds up on (or in) the teeth.

 

[Mudder]

Since you are cutting mostly resin, I doubt you will see a meaningful life increase with carbide. The resin builds up on (or in) the teeth.

I agree. What type of saw is it? Can you slow it down some? If it is a single speed wood cutting bandsaw, I think it's too fast for resin cutting. Of course you do know that the only way to REALLY know is to open the wallet (duck out of the way of the moths that will fly out), and buy one.

 

[ed4copies]

Unforseen consequence!!

I agree. What type of saw is it? Can you slow it down some? If it is a single speed wood cutting bandsaw, I think it's too fast for resin cutting. Of course you do know that the only way to REALLY know is to open the wallet (duck out of the way of the moths that will fly out), and buy one.

If I do that, I will be responsible for a WORLDWIDE MOTH PLAGUE!!

You don't want to see that, do YOU?????

 

[workinforwood]

The carbide will last 50 times longer, but you will need to keep it well sprayed and even then you will need to clean it often. The resin won't wear the blade down very quick, but the resin will leave a coating over the edges of the blade making it seem to be dull, and the resin that sticks to the sides of any blade is dangerous as it can cause the saw to stall or kick back or pull you in type of situation. I find Bostick works really good at helping keep the resin off my blades, and it is the number one rated rust inhibitor for your tools so a worthy investment. The guy at laguna in the classifieds will hook you up with a good deal on the blade. Eventually the blade will dull down no matter what, but remember..it's carbide, so it can be sharpened about 3-4 times and if a tooth breaks it can be replaced. Soaking the blade in the sink with oven cleaner does a great job of removing the resin if it gets really built up...open the doors and run from the fumes.

 

[artistwood]

i use chain lube for motorcycles on my band saw blade. so far, nothing has stuck to it even when cutting 1/2" lexan. silicone spray works well also.

 

[ed4copies]

Thanks for the extra information!!

I am using a half inch, 6 tooth per inch blade - the teeth are distant from each other. Do you still think it is a build-up of resin???

THIS IS NOT TO BE ARGUMENTATIVE!!! I would love to find out I just have to CLEAN the blades I have taken off --- I have a PILE of them!!!

BTW Mudder, I think I will try your approach. Will let you know when to take cover!!!

 

[KenV]

Bi-metalic (high speed steel tips) blades out last regular steel several times and carbide outlasts high speed steel hands down. Resin from wood builds up and drags on band saw blades, so I expect resins do the same.

Blade cleaning -- Easy Off oven cleaner for wood resins on circular saw and band saw blades --- I have no idea for your materials, but if in doubt try it.

If not the carbide, at least try one bi-metalic with high speed steel cutting tips welded on the spring steel backing. (metal cutting band saw blade made for a wood cutting saw) I think the one I am running is Olson, but it has been used so long and cut so much I am no longer sure.

 

[artistwood]

a close up pic would help..bear

 

[talbot]

Hi Ed
I would think you'll get quite a build up of resin with a 6tpi blade.
I clean mine using baking powder in boiling water. Kitchen sink and an old stiff bristle toothbrush and 10mins later the blade is clean again.
helps to fold the blade up when doing this.
A quality bandsaw blade is worth every penny in my opinion and can take your cut finish to a new level. Worth every penny in my opinion.
regards,
Bill

 

[jttheclockman]

Ed

There is some good info here and some that needs correcting. First off I use a Lennox carbide tooth blade for resawing and it does very well even on exotics which I cut alot of. Yes it needs cleaning but oven cleaner is not the thing to use. That stuff has been found to erode the welds of the carbide so manufactorers do not recomend it. I have been using Simple Green and it works fine. There are some that say this too is corrosive but I have not found proof of this yet so I will continue it. Next is if you are cutting alot of resins then yes that will get heated and stick to the blades. I recomend a good Timberwolf metal cutting blade. They will stay sharper longer. After a few cuttings of blanks I suggest you cut some light weight metal or even some wood may clean the blade. Then procede again.

 

[Randy_]

Ed: Call the pros!!

These are the guys that sell Timberwelf blades and they should be able to answer all of your questions.

www.suffolkmachinery.com

Phone: (800) 234-7297

 

[Gary Max]

No matter which one you buy-----it only takes one rock---a nail---clump of dirt-- to turn a blade into junk.
Are you willing to spend over a $100.00 to find out???????

 

[wolftat]

Laguna is having a special on carbide bandsaw blades. I just bought a 111" blade for $99. It was about half of what I was looking at spending on one.

 

[jttheclockman]

Laguna is having a special on carbide bandsaw blades. I just bought a 111" blade for $99. It was about half of what I was looking at spending on one.

Neil, what size is that blade??

 

[wolftat]

The blade I bought is 3/4" x111" and I can't say how long it will last, but so far it cuts better than any blade I have ever used and gives a cut that almost looks polished especially on the mesquite burl. I will probably be ordering another one soon to keep around as a backup (I have 6 regular blades as backups now).

 

[Randy_]

Hey Ed. How about a follow-up??

What blade did you decide ot purchase and what results are you having??

 

[ed4copies]

Randy,

I have about 6 cheapy blades remaining, so I have not had to purchase. I WILL purchase a carbide to test, but have not yet.

Again, I will notify those who may be affected by the "moth plague" my good friend Mudder predicts!!!

 

[Randy_]

Ed:

I reread your comments associated with the poll and see your are primarily concerned about cutting polyester resin. I'm not a BS expert...well, maybe a little:wink:...but I don't see Poly as being a particularly abrasive material and it doesn't seem it should wear out blade so fast unless the materials you are casting are highly abrasive or the blades you have are very poor steel. I suspect your problem has more to do with clogging the blade than wearing it out.

I still think it would be worth your time to talk with the experts at Suffolk Machinery.....the guys who peddle Timberwolf blades.

Here is a link to their blade selection chart.

http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/silicon_steel_selection.asp

Note that all of the blades recommended for "plastic" are 10 tpi raker blades. If the tooth pattern on your blades is not similar, that may be part of your difficulty??

 

[wolftat]

I have to tell you, last time i talked to the "experts" I would up with a lot of blades that are sitting here not being used. I guess they were trying to save me some money, but I was looking for quality and was willing to pay for it. I have a bunch of 10-14tpi blades that don't work for me but for the acrylics that you sell they may work for you, to bad we have different saws.

 

[GaryMGg]

No matter which one you buy-----it only takes one rock---a nail---clump of dirt-- to turn a blade into junk.
Are you willing to spend over a $100.00 to find out???????

I hate to :rain: on your negativism, but:

I don't think he's going to hit a nail or rock in manufactured acrylics! :biggrin:

:wink:

 

[workinforwood]

If you broke a tooth on a carbide blade, it can be replaced, just like a tablesaw blade can have new teeth installed for about a dollar a tooth and no Novocain. The cheaper blades, they can be cleaned, and they can be re-sharpened. You can send the timberwolf ones back to suffolk for re-sharpening. For re-sharpening a carbide blade, you don't have to clean it, they give it an acid bath before they will let their equipment touch yours anyhow. The oven cleaner..maybe it will weaken a weld, but I never had it happen. I don't leave oven cleaner on the blade very long, and I also am soaking it in hot water while the oven cleaner is on the blade, so it is quite diluted. To each their own..long as you clean it. Buy some Bostick, that'll be a very worthwhile investment no matter what you do Ed. You spray it on the blade, like teflon.

 

[Daniel]

No rocks in Acrylics??? well maybe not yet anyway. Give em some time to think on it.

Just some side info I remembered when reading this post. Not to long ago i read that carbide tipped blades (article was in regard to table saw blades) are seldom dull even when they do not cut well. Rather they are dirty. I took the blades off both my table saw and my radial arm saw which both acted like they where dull. scrubbed the dickens out of them and put them back on. both cut like brand new. if there has been any dulling of the carbide at all it is not enough to be noticable. Both of these blades have cut real garbage at one time or anouther. the radial arm blade has seen a lot of use on fiber board, ply wood and MDF. The adhesives in these woods is hard on blades. The table saw blade has been overheated at times making deep cuts in wet wood. still the carbide holds it's edge. So far as I can tell the carbide tips are next to indestructable as long as you don't hit hard material with them. they are brittle, get them to hot and the solder/brazed joint will melt and the tip falls off. other than that I question if you can take the edge off the carbide.

 

[jttheclockman]

No rocks in Acrylics??? well maybe not yet anyway. Give em some time to think on it.

Just some side info I remembered when reading this post. Not to long ago i read that carbide tipped blades (article was in regard to table saw blades) are seldom dull even when they do not cut well. Rather they are dirty. I took the blades off both my table saw and my radial arm saw which both acted like they where dull. scrubbed the dickens out of them and put them back on. both cut like brand new. if there has been any dulling of the carbide at all it is not enough to be noticable. Both of these blades have cut real garbage at one time or anouther. the radial arm blade has seen a lot of use on fiber board, ply wood and MDF. The adhesives in these woods is hard on blades. The table saw blade has been overheated at times making deep cuts in wet wood. still the carbide holds it's edge. So far as I can tell the carbide tips are next to indestructable as long as you don't hit hard material with them. they are brittle, get them to hot and the solder/brazed joint will melt and the tip falls off. other than that I question if you can take the edge off the carbide.

I have not looked into bandsaw blades but I do know tablesaw carbide blades come in different grades of carbide and different makeup for different applications. You do not use the same carbide blade for metal as wood. You also should not use the same carbide blade for composits such as melamine and laminates as you would standard woods. But carbides do hold up and to me well worth the investment. Boy how many blades I would have had to buy for all the resawing I have done over the years.

 

[wolftat]

I don't know squat about the difference in carbides but I do know that this carbide blade that I bought is cutting as good as when I first got it and it has outlasted any blade I have ever had. I'm not easy on my tools and tend to abuse them somewhat but this blade has taken everything and anything I could give it and it keeps going strong. I have had no problem cutting through a 10" diameter Mesquite burl that has been sitting in the Sonoran desert for years hardening.

 

[RussFairfield]

The only way you will ever know is to try one of them and see what happens in your particular circumstances.

I have tried the carbide teeth twice, and don't use them for general use for several reasons that have nothing to with their price or how long they last.

For precision sawing, I can saw a gluable surface with a quality steel blade, but the only place I have ever seen that done with a carbide was at the woodworking show demonstration. The teeth just aren't set that accurately on the ones I have bought, and I cannot side dress them with a stone to remove.

They take more horsepower than a normal saw blade because the teeth are wider and remove more wood. That might not be important for cutting pen blanks and dry wood. I saw up to 10" to 12" thick green wood and power is important.

They collect more resin behind the teeth than a steel tooth. I have no idea why other than there is that little step behind the tooth. Whatever the cause, resin on a blade eats up HP and adds to the above HP problem.

They don't cut through nails any better than a steel tooth. The difference is that the carbide teeth break off, or chip, and have to be replaced. I can spend 5-minutes with a Dremel tool and the steel blade is ready to cut again.