ldimick
Member
In your opinion how much time do you think it would take you to make a pen that would sell for $250?
$250 pen
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Fred in NC
Member
It all depends on whether the value of the $250 pen is based on the materials cost or the amount of labor involved, or both.
Obviously a pen could be worth $250 or more just because the material is expensive, gold for example.
On the other hand, a maki-e pen's value is based on the amount of time it takes to 'paint' the design.
Obviously a pen could be worth $250 or more just because the material is expensive, gold for example.
On the other hand, a maki-e pen's value is based on the amount of time it takes to 'paint' the design.
Rifleman1776
Member
Two hours to make. Two years to find a customer willing to pay that amount.
leehljp
Member Liaison
I got tired of spending 2 years to complete a 40 hour woodworking project. So I got into this hobby so that I could start and complete a project in an hour. Little did I know that it takes about 2 to 3 hours to do a fair job. Overnight or longer if I wanted a great finish. And the "overnight" part usually becomes a week before I can get back into my shop.
But $250.00? - I have a long way to go. That is my intermediate goal. My real goal is $500.00 and that is possible cause I live in Japan where people <b>will</b> pay higher prices. [
]
But $250.00? - I have a long way to go. That is my intermediate goal. My real goal is $500.00 and that is possible cause I live in Japan where people <b>will</b> pay higher prices. [
][][][]HEY Hank,,, can I ship you a load of pens to sell... [][][][]
][][]HEY Hank,,, can I ship you a load of pens to sell... [][][][]PenWorks
Member
You are not going to sell to many $250.00 kit pens. So starting from scratch, with the design, draw up, choice of materials, proto type....it is going to take you a while. I worked for a month (couldn't tell you how many hours) to come up with my Turban tops & my other hand painted design. Only came out with 6 pens.(about 6 more to the trash bin) Now that I have the design and working drawings, I could duplicate them in about 6 hours.
rtjw
Member
I could never fathom making a $250 pen. It would have to be made of something very rare and be a very good pen kit. I just dont get any kind of response for that kind of pen.
Thumbs
Member
I have a problem with the whole $250 pen concept.
Yep! [}]It's me again![}] I don't have an answer to the question at hand just an observation about the atmosphere surrounding it![]
I didn't start this "hobby" to make money. I started it to make something. Something that has feeling to me. The first time I watched a chunk of wood "become" something under my own eyes and hands, I thought I was going to burst with excitement. Too philosophic? Perhaps. It's not quite that exciting anymore but still quite satisfying.......
I don't know what, if anything, pen making will become for me; but I have decided that I don't want it to become about money. I don't care whether anyone else values my pens, I do. Too egotistical? Perhaps that too. Of course I appreciate it when someone says, "Nice pen!" And I don't like it when they say, "Awful pen!" But that isn't why I turn pens. I turn pens for myself, primarily. All else is secondary. You may think I'm wealthy and have no concerns about money! [8D] You couldn't get much further off base unless you leave the stadium!
I'll probably never be better than, maybe, an adequate pen maker. I'll never become a Master Craftsman, Craftsman, or Journeyman. I certainly have absolutely no artistic abilities! Some here truly do! They really work at their ART. Of course, they suffer the pangs of an artistic temperament, too! I most certainly am not artistic as I do not exhibit an artistic temperament in the slightest degree! Obviously! I may just be a dilettante! Perhaps, I'll just dabble in penmaking for a little while longer and go on to something else. I doubt it; but who knows? Not me!
Obviously, I'm just an old wiseass [8] that's over the hill, that likes to shoot his mouth off, and hopes nobody ever catches up to him to make him put up or shut up[B)], too! There! I said it for ya, OK?
I, also, appreciate the fact that some other folks here do depend on penmaking for an adjunct to their other income if not their entire income. I am sure the $250 pen concept is relevant and important to them. I'm just telling you why it isn't to me. And, yes, paying taxes on $250 pen sales will never be a problem for me either! []
Yep! [}
]It's me again![}] I don't have an answer to the question at hand just an observation about the atmosphere surrounding it![]I didn't start this "hobby" to make money. I started it to make something. Something that has feeling to me. The first time I watched a chunk of wood "become" something under my own eyes and hands, I thought I was going to burst with excitement. Too philosophic? Perhaps. It's not quite that exciting anymore but still quite satisfying.......
I don't know what, if anything, pen making will become for me; but I have decided that I don't want it to become about money. I don't care whether anyone else values my pens, I do. Too egotistical? Perhaps that too. Of course I appreciate it when someone says, "Nice pen!" And I don't like it when they say, "Awful pen!" But that isn't why I turn pens. I turn pens for myself, primarily. All else is secondary. You may think I'm wealthy and have no concerns about money! [8D] You couldn't get much further off base unless you leave the stadium!
I'll probably never be better than, maybe, an adequate pen maker. I'll never become a Master Craftsman, Craftsman, or Journeyman. I certainly have absolutely no artistic abilities! Some here truly do! They really work at their ART. Of course, they suffer the pangs of an artistic temperament, too! I most certainly am not artistic as I do not exhibit an artistic temperament in the slightest degree! Obviously! I may just be a dilettante! Perhaps, I'll just dabble in penmaking for a little while longer and go on to something else. I doubt it; but who knows? Not me!
Obviously, I'm just an old wiseass [8] that's over the hill, that likes to shoot his mouth off, and hopes nobody ever catches up to him to make him put up or shut up[B)], too! There! I said it for ya, OK?
I, also, appreciate the fact that some other folks here do depend on penmaking for an adjunct to their other income if not their entire income. I am sure the $250 pen concept is relevant and important to them. I'm just telling you why it isn't to me. And, yes, paying taxes on $250 pen sales will never be a problem for me either! [
]rtjw
Member
Amen, Bob
after reading the $250.00 pen thread and now this $250.00 pen poll I am reminded of a thread a while back where the intial thread started because A member was told or heard a remark where he wa selling his work.
This customer told his wife something along the lines "if I had the right tools I could make that for less"( something to that extent)
The initial poster went on to discuss the length of time it took him to make a pen to justify his selling cost.
By the end of the post the direction of the thread pretty much had taken the tone of how fast each poster could turn"high quality" pens.
I am the Smart A** who said it would only take me an hour just so I can read the results of this poll.
I haven't made a $250.00 pen yet, don't think I will ever do so.
What I might do is make a pen that is so UNIQUE( read different) that I will not part with it for any amount of money.Eventually someday I may find someone who notices it, admires it. If they ask me how much I want for it I will tell them in no uncertain terms that it is not for sale under any circumstances for any price.
IF they throw out a figure I will keep saying no until they hit $250.00.( maybe more)
In that case it will be sold.(Then I will go and make another
)
Then I will know when I made the $250.00 (or more) pen and I am not holding my breath until it happens.
I don't think that particualr pen will be made from any blanks I can buy from suppliers and it may not even be of wood or anlter.
(Apologies to the forum member I recently had a phone conversation with )
This customer told his wife something along the lines "if I had the right tools I could make that for less"( something to that extent)
The initial poster went on to discuss the length of time it took him to make a pen to justify his selling cost.
By the end of the post the direction of the thread pretty much had taken the tone of how fast each poster could turn"high quality" pens.
I am the Smart A** who said it would only take me an hour just so I can read the results of this poll.
I haven't made a $250.00 pen yet, don't think I will ever do so.
What I might do is make a pen that is so UNIQUE( read different) that I will not part with it for any amount of money.Eventually someday I may find someone who notices it, admires it. If they ask me how much I want for it I will tell them in no uncertain terms that it is not for sale under any circumstances for any price.
IF they throw out a figure I will keep saying no until they hit $250.00.( maybe more)
In that case it will be sold.(Then I will go and make another
Then I will know when I made the $250.00 (or more) pen and I am not holding my breath until it happens.
I don't think that particualr pen will be made from any blanks I can buy from suppliers and it may not even be of wood or anlter.
(Apologies to the forum member I recently had a phone conversation with )
C_Ludwigsen
Member
I agree with you, Eagle.
JimGo
Member
Bob,
I agree with you, that I don't make pens for the money (heck, I have yet to sell a pen!). I make pens because I enjoy watching each one develop, watching my abilities improve along the way (albeit with some significant setbacks every so often!), and getting to see and play with some beautiful wood from parts of the world that I only dream of visiting. But what the heck am I going to do with 100+ pens? I already have a collection of 20 or so, and most of them just sit around. The last thing I need is even MORE stuff to clutter our already too small house! So, that means that if I'm going to continue enjoying this hobby (or doing any other woodworking or "creative" craft like this), I'll have to either give away the results, or sell them.
As I mentioned above, my pens have only been given as gifts for family and friends (no sales yet). Since I'm still honing my skills, most of those have been decent, but nothing great. But I'm getting progressively better. But then the question becomes, what do I do once I've given all my friends and family pens? I guess everyone needs a few pens, but after the first one, I think it loses its novelty. Thankfully, I come from a REALLY big family (Mom is one of 13, dad is one if 8), and my wife has a pretty big family too, so I still have time before I HAVE to deal with this. But, eventually, I'll need to sell my pens, or else throw them away (okay, I COULD donate them too, but then I'd have to find a value for them for tax reasons!).
So, that brings me back to the idea of creating saleable pens. My goal with pens I create is to make something that will cause the recipient think "wow, that's a REALLY nice pen! I wonder where he got it, it looks expensive?" I want them to not even THINK that I might have made it, regardless of whether it is a slimline, or one of the fancier kits. To me, that means they see the craftsmanship that went into the pen, things like the selection of the materials, the care with which things were cut, turned, etc. To get to that point, it means that there can't be any visible mistakes in the form, fit or finish.
When I get to that point, I think I'll be closer to the $250 pen range. As pointed out above by some of the others, I think I'll be even closer to a $250 pen if I start doing truly innovative stuff the way Anthony (Penworks), Bruce Boone (BTBoone), Ed Davidson (YoYoSpin), Don Ward (ItsVirgil) and some of the others here have done (if I left anyone off the list, it wasn't intentional!).
Unfortunately, even my two "best" pens (thus far) aren't worthy of $250 (if you're curious as to what I think are my two best, check my album for my Lignum Vitae pens). Maybe $120-$150 in the DC market, but even that would probably be pushing it. Not because I didn't take the time with them, or because they don't look good, but because I'm still learning, and they aren't as well done as they could be. In my case, I know that if I build things like sleds for my bandsaw and a table that will better allow let me use my face plate as a disc sander, these will drastically improve my ability to really nail the fit and finish. I hope I'll get there some day!
Now, for a bit of a tirade. I've read the pricing threads for the last 6 months or so with interest. One thing that bugs me is that some people seem to feel that their market won't support higher priced pens, and therefore they have no reason to make better pens. In this day-and-age there's nothing preventing ANYONE with a little ambition from reaching markets other than their own. I understand that not everyone is tech-savvy, and so having your own web site isn't within everyone's reach. But there are companies with "shopping malls" (like Yahoo!) who will let you set up shop for a pretty reasonable fee, and without needing a lot of tech savvy. Heck, they even help you take credit card purchases! Then there's always eBay. Pricing on eBay is hit-or-miss, but you can still do well there. Neither of these options requires a whole lot more technical expertise than it does to visit and contribute to this site.
Now, I know that some people are leery of online sales for various reasons, and will reject that thought out of hand. To those people, if your pens are of a high enough quality, they will easily find a home in a shop in a market that will support the higher prices, and you can always send your pens there via the good o'l USPS $7.70 flat-rate boxes to keep your shipping costs low (probably adds less than $1 per pen if shipped that way). So, don't hide behind your local market as the reason you don't make higher caliber pens. I can appreciate the fact that some people make their pens for fun, and don't want to put the time and effort into making pens that would HAVE to sell for a high price to justify their existance. But I also just get really frustrated by those same people telling the others who are trying to make something really special that they are crazy.
Okay, I'll come down from my soapbox now...and will try to hide under it!
I agree with you, that I don't make pens for the money (heck, I have yet to sell a pen!). I make pens because I enjoy watching each one develop, watching my abilities improve along the way (albeit with some significant setbacks every so often!), and getting to see and play with some beautiful wood from parts of the world that I only dream of visiting. But what the heck am I going to do with 100+ pens? I already have a collection of 20 or so, and most of them just sit around. The last thing I need is even MORE stuff to clutter our already too small house! So, that means that if I'm going to continue enjoying this hobby (or doing any other woodworking or "creative" craft like this), I'll have to either give away the results, or sell them.
As I mentioned above, my pens have only been given as gifts for family and friends (no sales yet). Since I'm still honing my skills, most of those have been decent, but nothing great. But I'm getting progressively better. But then the question becomes, what do I do once I've given all my friends and family pens? I guess everyone needs a few pens, but after the first one, I think it loses its novelty. Thankfully, I come from a REALLY big family (Mom is one of 13, dad is one if 8), and my wife has a pretty big family too, so I still have time before I HAVE to deal with this. But, eventually, I'll need to sell my pens, or else throw them away (okay, I COULD donate them too, but then I'd have to find a value for them for tax reasons!).
So, that brings me back to the idea of creating saleable pens. My goal with pens I create is to make something that will cause the recipient think "wow, that's a REALLY nice pen! I wonder where he got it, it looks expensive?" I want them to not even THINK that I might have made it, regardless of whether it is a slimline, or one of the fancier kits. To me, that means they see the craftsmanship that went into the pen, things like the selection of the materials, the care with which things were cut, turned, etc. To get to that point, it means that there can't be any visible mistakes in the form, fit or finish.
When I get to that point, I think I'll be closer to the $250 pen range. As pointed out above by some of the others, I think I'll be even closer to a $250 pen if I start doing truly innovative stuff the way Anthony (Penworks), Bruce Boone (BTBoone), Ed Davidson (YoYoSpin), Don Ward (ItsVirgil) and some of the others here have done (if I left anyone off the list, it wasn't intentional!).
Unfortunately, even my two "best" pens (thus far) aren't worthy of $250 (if you're curious as to what I think are my two best, check my album for my Lignum Vitae pens). Maybe $120-$150 in the DC market, but even that would probably be pushing it. Not because I didn't take the time with them, or because they don't look good, but because I'm still learning, and they aren't as well done as they could be. In my case, I know that if I build things like sleds for my bandsaw and a table that will better allow let me use my face plate as a disc sander, these will drastically improve my ability to really nail the fit and finish. I hope I'll get there some day!
Now, for a bit of a tirade. I've read the pricing threads for the last 6 months or so with interest. One thing that bugs me is that some people seem to feel that their market won't support higher priced pens, and therefore they have no reason to make better pens. In this day-and-age there's nothing preventing ANYONE with a little ambition from reaching markets other than their own. I understand that not everyone is tech-savvy, and so having your own web site isn't within everyone's reach. But there are companies with "shopping malls" (like Yahoo!) who will let you set up shop for a pretty reasonable fee, and without needing a lot of tech savvy. Heck, they even help you take credit card purchases! Then there's always eBay. Pricing on eBay is hit-or-miss, but you can still do well there. Neither of these options requires a whole lot more technical expertise than it does to visit and contribute to this site.
Now, I know that some people are leery of online sales for various reasons, and will reject that thought out of hand. To those people, if your pens are of a high enough quality, they will easily find a home in a shop in a market that will support the higher prices, and you can always send your pens there via the good o'l USPS $7.70 flat-rate boxes to keep your shipping costs low (probably adds less than $1 per pen if shipped that way). So, don't hide behind your local market as the reason you don't make higher caliber pens. I can appreciate the fact that some people make their pens for fun, and don't want to put the time and effort into making pens that would HAVE to sell for a high price to justify their existance. But I also just get really frustrated by those same people telling the others who are trying to make something really special that they are crazy.
Okay, I'll come down from my soapbox now...and will try to hide under it!
Thumbs
Member
I agree with Groucho![}]
=======================
Sorry, <b>Jim</b>. [] The above had nothing to do with your post. Just a timing problem. I didn't imply, or mean to at any rate, that I had any qualms about anyone selling their pens for whatever they can get for them! I [^] might even sell one or two, sometime, in the future!
]=======================
Sorry, <b>Jim</b>. [
] The above had nothing to do with your post. Just a timing problem. I didn't imply, or mean to at any rate, that I had any qualms about anyone selling their pens for whatever they can get for them! I [^] might even sell one or two, sometime, in the future!JimGo
Member
Bob, Don't worry, no offense taken! Heck, Eagle's post wasn't even up there when I started writing mine!
Randy_
Member
Jim: Until such time as you morph into the selling mode, why don't you check out the <u>Freedom Pen Project</u> and donate some of your excess inventory to the men and women of our armed forces currently serving in Iraq and Afghanistan?
http://www.freedompens.org
leehljp
Member Liaison
Originally posted by Old Griz
<br />[
In all honesty, some of the pens posted on this forum would easily bring $250.00 in Japan. Some of the best ones like you guys are taking to Provo would bring in the nieghborhood of $500 at the right places and stores. The bubble economy burst in '89, but there are still lots of people around with lots of money who spend high bucks for quality and beauty.
High gloss thick finish - like a well polished CA finish gives - is really liked here. While my artistic Japanese woodworking friends prefer oil finish for their work, most Japanese like the thick clear high gloss look.
bigvoots44
Member
I have already made a 250 pen. It was the first pen that I made. Having lived a life where I cant remember having created anything other than a successful marriage and two fantastic childred(the ultimate in creation )the pen was something else in my mind. Never having been a woodworker or an artist I found it amazing that I could do something like it. I gave this pen to my family doctor who has been there for me through thick and thin,both medically and mentally. He knew what the pen meant to me and it means a lot to him. I now make more pens, but I dont think I can ever come up with a pen more valuable than the first.To me it was priceless.
Well Said Fred... Hey I know Brantford... I used to go there to visit an archery friend of mine, back when I was young, single and free from worry .. [][]
][]JimGo
Member
Randy,
Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I've already donated several, and will be working on a much larger batch in the fall.
Thanks for the suggestion. Actually, I've already donated several, and will be working on a much larger batch in the fall.
Randy_
Member
Jim:
mtnguy
Member
Lets see, shattered pauii shell suspended in custom cast pearlescent acrylic, 24 Karat Gold trim...marketed in Tokyo.
Yep, that should work.
Yep, that should work.
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