"Other Turnings" Forum?

[Mudder]

Originally posted by ctEaglesc
<br />
Sorry Mudder you went so far overboard to refute Lous position you went from the sublime to the ridiculous .

Eagle,

You missed the whole point.

One other thing, I don't take kindly to being called ridiculous. I guess you forgot what today is the anniversary of (besides veterans day). Perhaps history is doomed to repeat itself.

Scott
Proud member of the International Association of Penturners.

I also make bowls, boxes, candlesticks, rolling pins, Christmas ornaments, turned jewelry, lamps, chair legs, table legs, canes, walking sticks, etc., etc.

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by jeff
<br />Maybe it undermines the "purity" of the IAP.

Can't help but wonder......... If pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, hasn't the "purity" of the IAP already been undermined?

 

[jeffj13]

Originally posted by Mudder
<br />

Originally posted by jeff
<br />Maybe it undermines the "purity" of the IAP.

Can't help but wonder......... If pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, hasn't the "purity" of the IAP already been undermined?

With all do respect, I can't help but wonder if pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, why do we need another forum? [?]

jeff

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by Mudder
<br />

Originally posted by ctEaglesc
<br />
Sorry Mudder you went so far overboard to refute Lous position you went from the sublime to the ridiculous .

Eagle,

You missed the whole point.

One other thing, I don't take kindly to being called ridiculous. I guess you forgot what today is the anniversary of (besides veterans day). Perhaps history is doomed to repeat itself.

Scott
Proud member of the International Association of Penturners.

I also make bowls, boxes, candlesticks, rolling pins, Christmas ornaments, turned jewelry, lamps, chair legs, table legs, canes, walking sticks, etc., etc.

That is nice.
I only make pens.That is why I come to the site that is called the International Association of PENturners.
Is there a site for the international association of the other things you make?(BTW I didn't mention the opther writing implement that looks like a pen but doesn't use ink[]I aint going there)

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by jeffj13
<br />

Originally posted by Mudder
<br />

Originally posted by jeff
<br />Maybe it undermines the "purity" of the IAP.

Can't help but wonder......... If pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, hasn't the "purity" of the IAP already been undermined?

With all do respect, I can't help but wonder if pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, why do we need another forum? [?]

jeff

Now THAT was good!

 

[jeff]

Is the concern that we'd get a lot of members who are not penturners just flooding us with other turnings?

I guess there are two ways to look at this. (1) If we are a community, then maybe we're interested in other things we do which are closely related to penturning. (2) If we're a laser-focused association of penturners, then we should not have casual conversation, marketing, or anything else that isn't 100% tied to making pens. Every single post should be directly related to penturning.

The sense I get from some of these comments is that we need only one forum: penturning. I guess I should start polling about which forums to delete. [}]

 

[ctEaglesc]

Out of curiosity, does the Mission Statement of this site Still exist?
I can't seem to laocate it.

 

[Trapshooter]

I voted no, just because it currently has the least amount of votes. I came TO this site for pen information to learn and someday maybe contribute enough to show somone else an idea they may not have had. What comes after that is a benefit that a strait, PEN TALK site would not have.
Having a seperate forum will not change my wanting to visit this site or my desire to look in casual conversation, tips or tricks etc... I still enjoy the feeling of "family" like wishing someones relatives get well and prayers and thoughts to fellow penturners with relatives serving our country. That is why I STAY. So in the end it does not matter, to me this is still an INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PENTURNERS who choses to share the other things we do that make us who we are. Look at what you like, don't look at what you are not interested in, simple.

 

[kenwc]

I've gotten much more from this site than I've given. I've learned ALOT...!! I'm about to embark on making some bowls but I'd never even think of bringing those issues here to this forum. I have another forum for that. I also make Bottle Stoppers but I have another forum for that as well. Nice and tidy. This is the best forum I'm on. I'd really hate to see it diluted.

 

[Jim in Oakville]

Hi,

After some thought I voted no.

I think what I like here at IAP are the discussions on pen making and related pen topics. This forum moves very fast, and I am afraid that it would get diluted from what we like best here. I like to come here and focus or share thoughts related to pen making.

As many of us here know there are many other turning forums, woodworking forums and places to gain insight from knowledgeable people there as well. I think that if your passion lies in those areas you should try to benefit from a larger circle of eyes and thoughts that can help you there to gain what you desire.

I also feel that the Casual Forum is a place where we can occasionally maybe show another side of who we are in what we like to make or share. We often use that forum to discuss and develop thoughts that are less pen focused than the majority of forums here.


I participate on 5 other forums, I like them all. IAP is a special forum for me and I like the balance we have here.

[]

 

[ctEaglesc]

A lot of saw dust has gone out the door since you and I met at the Canadian Woodworking site t years ago,huh Jim?

 

[Jim in Oakville]

Originally posted by ctEaglesc
<br />A lot of saw dust has gone out the door since you and I met at the Canadian Woodworking site t years ago,huh Jim?

Sure has Eagle...I always appreciated having you on the CWW.. It was always good having you there, it was mostly 99% Canadian and 1% US participants...You did well as the 1%!! You were always well thought of. Actually I had lunch with Bill MacDonald from Toronto yesterday, I mentioned I see you here often...he's into building Model cars now and is a moderator on a forum in that topic. We both turned down chances to moderate the CWW...time has changed the balance there dramatically in the last year. I have been on the CWW since 1996, it is my longest standing forum I participate on.

Always a pleasure Eagle.

[]

 

[jeffj13]

Originally posted by jeff
<br />Is the concern that we'd get a lot of members who are not penturners just flooding us with other turnings?

I guess there are two ways to look at this. (1) If we are a community, then maybe we're interested in other things we do which are closely related to penturning. (2) If we're a laser-focused association of penturners, then we should not have casual conversation, marketing, or anything else that isn't 100% tied to making pens. Every single post should be directly related to penturning.

The sense I get from some of these comments is that we need only one forum: penturning. I guess I should start polling about which forums to delete. [}]

Jeff,

I am disappointed in your post. Your comments remind me of my daughter, who, when in a discussion, will immediately gravitate only on the extremes of a position, without considering compromise and then attempt to make me miserable by taking an unreasonable action.

The fact of the matter is that there is middle ground and I had thought we had already had it.

I see it this way.:

We are an association of penturners. Our discussions center around all aspects of pensmaking. This would include the tools used to make pens, the creating of pen blanks, the making and displaying of pens, pen supplies and the marketing and selling of pens. While our focus is pens, we understand that there are other things to turn besides pens. For that reason we created the Casual Conversations forum. Not "1" or "2", but somewhere in the middle.

That being said, while I would prefer things as they are, I'm not going to go ballistic if you change things. At the end of the day, we will still have a good site and I will still come here.


jeff

 

[jeff]

Originally posted by ctEaglesc
<br />Out of curiosity, does the Mission Statement of this site Still exist?
I can't seem to laocate it.

Here it is:

The International Association of Penturners (IAP) is an organization that recognizes penturning as a branch of woodturning with unique and distinctive character. Penturning encompasses a vast array of techniques, materials, technical knowledge, and novel approaches to produce a functional, aesthetically appealing writing instrument. The goal of the IAP is to give penturners a place to enhance their skills, share experiences, and promote the art of penturning.

It's on the About Us page.

 

[jeff]

Jeff,

I am disappointed in your post. Your comments remind me of my daughter, who, when in a discussion, will immediately gravitate only on the extremes of a position, without considering compromise and then attempt to make me miserable by taking an unreasonable action.

The fact of the matter is that there is middle ground and I had thought we had already had it.

&lt;snip&gt;

Easy there, Jeff. I'm provoking discussion, not taking a position.

 

[Darley]

Here it is:

The International Association of Penturners (IAP) is an organization that recognizes penturning as a branch of woodturning with unique and distinctive character. Penturning encompasses a vast array of techniques, materials, technical knowledge, and novel approaches to produce a functional, aesthetically appealing writing instrument. The goal of the IAP is to give penturners a place to enhance their skills, share experiences, and promote the art of penturning.

It's on the About Us page.


[/quote]

Well say Jeff and I hope you keep it that way, other turning can go to cassual comversation,

 

[TellicoTurning]

Jeff,
I need to change my vote... Lou's curse of the Murphy has made me see the error of my ways.[][][][][]

 

[DCBluesman]

Originally posted by jeff
<br />Is the concern that we'd get a lot of members who are not penturners just flooding us with other turnings?

I guess there are two ways to look at this. (1) If we are a community, then maybe we're interested in other things we do which are closely related to penturning. (2) If we're a laser-focused association of penturners, then we should not have casual conversation, marketing, or anything else that isn't 100% tied to making pens. Every single post should be directly related to penturning.

The sense I get from some of these comments is that we need only one forum: penturning. I guess I should start polling about which forums to delete. [}]

<b>Well, Jeff, YES, we are (or at least we were) laser-focused on all things personally-made pen-related.</b> This debate happened shortly after <u>you</u> amd <u>Scott</u> founded this forum. It was widely debated...<u>Russ</u>...<u>Kenn</u>...<u>Bob</u>...<u>Ed</u>...and a lot of others. A <b>Mission statement</b> was drawn up. Guidelines were established. The group, forum and the association were about PENS (and pencils []). The <u>objectives were ratified</u> not only by the <u>members</u>, but also by the short-lived <u>Board of Directors</u>. <b>Yes, the mission of this site is all things (personally-made) pens. Period.</b>

Now as I have said before, this is your living room. Host whatever meetings (forums) you want. But I will predict that there will be a <u>de-focusing on pens</u> in fairly short order. Once that happens, there will be another <b>Jeff</b> and another <b>Scott</b> who will decide that there's a place in this world for folks who have a tight grip and focus on a hobby...making pens. Yes, some will want to talk about how to finsh the pens they make, some will want to learn how to photograph the pens they make, others will want to discuss how to market the pens they make. These people will NOT want to discuss how someone finishes bowls <u>which they do not make</u>.

Generic turning forums:
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/forumdisplay.php?f=2
http://www.woodturningonline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5.
http://www.woodturningcenter.org/WTCBB/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=63c5ddb97f98f8dbb55ba1d9ac769c6b
http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=list&forum=DCForumID13&conf=DCConfID3
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=turning
http://dgroups.woodmagazine.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=woodturning
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?s=4a3280b899a43163d1f7127b84202c0d&f=20
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=8
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=22
http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=d651ec858813ce6e52cc67dd96aebede&f=10

 

[dfurlano]

I wish there was a pen making forum and not necessarily part of this community. My feeling it that there is very little non-kit work.

 

[Mudder]

Originally posted by jeffj13
<br />
With all do respect, I can't help but wonder if pictures of "other" turnings are already being posted, why do we need another forum? [?]

Well,

As it has been said before...It ain't rocket science.

My reasoning is simply this.....If all turnings other than pens were in one forum then those who want to get their panties in a knot will know what forum to ignore.


I just spent the afternoon turning freedom pens and I had a lot of time to reflect on penturning in general. I guess it the majority here want to have a penturning only site and treat all other turnings and turners as inferior then so be it. If the "purity" of the site is in question then I would suggest that everyone go through their photo album and delete every photo that is not a pen.

It's also been said to me that my sierra video and PDF tutorial should not be here because it only shows my skills with a drill bit and has nothing to do with penturning. Ok, take it down, makes me no nevermind. While were taking down my video how about the ones about bottle stoppers? Although the techniques can be carried across into penturning we're looking for "purity" and although it is turning, it's not PENturning.

I stand behind my earlier "ridiculous statements". Although you try to justify the pen photography forum because you are taking pictures of pens, I'm sorry folks but it's nothing more than a form of macro photography and spoils the "purity" of the site. If the site is in need of "purifying" then Shops, Jigs, Fixtures & Tools, Marketing & Shows, Trades & Giveaways, Group Purchases, and Individual or Business Classifieds all needs to go to regain our "purity". Justify it any way you please but nothing mentioned above is penturning in it's purist form. Lets not forget casual conversation; by it's own definition it is off-topic & general chat and I think it has no place in a "pure" penturning site..

In the end, I'll still post when I have a pen that I think is "some of my best work" or if I have something to say that's pen related. For now I guess I have to find another place to post my "non-pen turnings".

 

[DCBluesman]

Originally posted by dubdrvrkev
<br />Wait a minute... You've got a bowl in your album Lou. [}][}]

Not any more. [8D]

 

[gothycdesigns]

I'm sure that other members here turn other things besides pens. It would be nice to get feedback from the pros, besides having to look into other sites pertaining to certain types of turning. It would help all involved. If it was designated separately so that others that oppose the addition, they could keep the forum with no changes, but others that want to learn more can choose an additional forum. I think its a good idea. I vote YES.

Thanks,
Gothyc Designs

 

[beaverfsu]

I like having a place just dedicated to pens. This isn't just a forum to talk about pens too, but rather THE place that has EVERTHING pen related. Lets keep the focus.

 

[rtjw]

Originally posted by DCBluesman
Now as I have said before, this is your living room. Host whatever meetings (forums) you want. But I will predict that there will be a <u>de-focusing on pens</u> in fairly short order. Once that happens, there will be another <b>Jeff</b> and another <b>Scott</b> who will decide that there's a place in this world for folks who have a tight grip and focus on a hobby...making pens. Yes, some will want to talk about how to finsh the pens they make, some will want to learn how to photograph the pens they make, others will want to discuss how to market the pens they make. These people will NOT want to discuss how someone finishes bowls <u>which they do not make</u>.

I dont think it is bad to have another forum for other turnings. The Pen Shop has a forum for other turnings and we are about to go over 1000 members in our first year. I dont think people will leave the IAP just because he adds a forum for other turnings.

 

[DCBluesman]

Other forums are not relevant to my opinion.

 

[DocStram]

Will we also change the name to the "International Assoication of Other Turning Forums"?

I vote NO! There are tons of woodturning forums out there already.

 

[dfurlano]

I think we should get rid of the "Polls, Surveys, and Votes" forum. IMHO a forum like that can take over.

 

[Darley]

Originally posted by rtjw
<br />

Originally posted by DCBluesman
Now as I have said before, this is your living room. Host whatever meetings (forums) you want. But I will predict that there will be a <u>de-focusing on pens</u> in fairly short order. Once that happens, there will be another <b>Jeff</b> and another <b>Scott</b> who will decide that there's a place in this world for folks who have a tight grip and focus on a hobby...making pens. Yes, some will want to talk about how to finsh the pens they make, some will want to learn how to photograph the pens they make, others will want to discuss how to market the pens they make. These people will NOT want to discuss how someone finishes bowls <u>which they do not make</u>.

I dont think it is bad to have another forum for other turnings. The Pen Shop has a forum for other turnings and we are about to go over 1000 members in our first year. I dont think people will leave the IAP just because he adds a forum for other turnings.

Johnny how many of your members are from IAP,YahooPenturners and other association(s) when you doing your your head hunting, I saw a post from you in this site advertising for your site when you just starter

http://tinyurl.com/y2lyrs

Beside other people who vote yes look at this site I just posted and make sure this happen to the IAP ( or what ever it will be call after )

To many CHIEFS NOT ENOUGH INDIANS[]

So now WHO's going to open another REAL PENTURNER Site ???

 

[chisel]

Oh my...you would think the poll was about whether we should remove oxygen from the atmosphere or not.

I voted yes, but only because there are many other turnings already on the site. Removing them from Casual Conversations will allow people who are interested in such things, the ability to narrow in on them, without sifting through the other stuff.

It's not that big of a deal to me either way. Gotta love forum drama though. [xx(]

 

[jimbo 31751]

no.

 

[DocStram]

Originally posted by chisel
<br />Oh my...you would think the poll was about whether we should remove oxygen from the atmosphere or not.

I voted yes, but only because there are many other turnings already on the site. Removing them from Casual Conversations will allow people who are interested in such things, the ability to narrow in on them, without sifting through the other stuff.

It's not that big of a deal to me either way. Gotta love forum drama though. [xx(]

Good one, Chisel! Forum Drama!!

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Originally posted by DCBluesman

Generic turning forums:
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/forumdisplay.php?f=2
http://www.woodturningonline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5.
http://www.woodturningcenter.org/WTCBB/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=63c5ddb97f98f8dbb55ba1d9ac769c6b
http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=list&forum=DCForumID13&conf=DCConfID3
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=turning
http://dgroups.woodmagazine.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=woodturning
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?s=4a3280b899a43163d1f7127b84202c0d&f=20
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=8
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=22
http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=d651ec858813ce6e52cc67dd96aebede&f=10

Sure! show me more sites, thanks buddy![]

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by Ron in Drums PA
<br />

Originally posted by DCBluesman

Generic turning forums:
http://www.woodturner.org/vbforum/forumdisplay.php?f=2
http://www.woodturningonline.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=5.
http://www.woodturningcenter.org/WTCBB/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=63c5ddb97f98f8dbb55ba1d9ac769c6b
http://www.woodworking.com/dcforum/dcboard.pl?az=list&forum=DCForumID13&conf=DCConfID3
http://www.forums.woodnet.net/ubbthreads/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=turning
http://dgroups.woodmagazine.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=woodturning
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?s=4a3280b899a43163d1f7127b84202c0d&f=20
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=8
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/forumdisplay.php?s=1e7044962da094f05a3d4476b8f8faa5&f=22
http://www.canadianwoodworking.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=d651ec858813ce6e52cc67dd96aebede&f=10

Sure! show me more sites, thanks buddy![]

One Lou missed[]

 

[Jerryconn]

As I said earlier, I voted no, but I agree with Lou, this is Jeff's site, I appreciate his willingness to accept input, I am also very interested in and make bottle stoppers, and maybe down the road a little, some of those christmas ornaments someone recently posted. I love this site because I love making pens. I like the fact that this site is, for all pratical purposes a "one stop for all things pens" well except for maybe fountain pens, including tools, lathes, finishes, stabilizing, casting, pen cases, refills, etc, etc, etc. I don't mind the way things are now, such as, when yoyo spin posts a bottle stopper, I go look. I just don't want the see the art of turning and making pens from any type of material, lost amoung the rest of the postings.

 

[rgundersen]

Well I only read one page of posts on this thread and looking at the otes right now there are a lot more votes on the yes side, but I go with the no personally.

It is a penturners site and there is a forum section in casual conversation to ask those here about general non pen turning content. If that is about turning bowls, or the current phase of the moon fine whatever, hence casual conversation.

 

[jeff]

I got an email this morning suggesting that had I started the poll after all this discussion, that the results might be different. I've also received several emails saying that had the voter seen all the discussion prior to voting, their vote would have been different.

It does make sense to get all the issues out on the table prior to voting. We have a lot of members who don't know the history of the IAP, and this discussion probably exposed some of the reasons why we're here in the first place.

So, I'm considering closing this poll and running a new one. Any comments on that?

THANKS!

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Jeff, was it Al Gore who sent you the email? [][][]
Sounds like a hanging chad issue to me.

Personally, I think we should have at least 3 polls for each decision.... Just to make sure.... you know what I mean...

 

[JTaylor801]

I don't understand what closing this poll and creating a new one will accomplish. I think you'll still receive discussion against and discussion for. While the voting results lean towards "Yes", and I haven't read every message in this thread...I can say the discussion certainly leans more towards No.

If you think that members voted Yes prior to really understanding the background of IAP etc. then just don't create the new "Other Turnings" Forum.

However, it's just 1's and 0's.

Jerry

 

[DCBluesman]

If you are going to run a new poll, may I add a third option. I've been trying to make the option more inclusive of all members, rather than a contest between members. What if we create a forum called "Other Things We Make"? That could include turnings, flatwork, scrollsaw work, rings, fishing rods, game calls, etc. Also, by calling it "Other Things WE Make" it remains perfectly clear that this is a group of pen makers (primarily) who happen to have numerous talents. Just a thought.[8D]

 

[DocStram]

Originally posted by jeff
<br />I got an email this morning suggesting that had I started the poll after all this discussion, that the results might be different. I've also received several emails saying that had the voter seen all the discussion prior to voting, their vote would have been different.

It does make sense to get all the issues out on the table prior to voting. We have a lot of members who don't know the history of the IAP, and this discussion probably exposed some of the reasons why we're here in the first place.

So, I'm considering closing this poll and running a new one. Any comments on that?

THANKS!

I "vote" for a new poll ... for a couple of reasons. One, being that I my no vote didn't seem to register in the poll count. (I've already contacted the Attorney General's Office about the voting irregularity)

But, more importantly, so many of the comments seem to be opposed to adding other turning forums, yet there is a majority vote for yes. Something seems incongruent.