What all to budget for and what new metal lathe to start

[Fish30114]

I am seriously considering obtaining a metal lathe, I am looking for recommendations on how much to budget and what lathe you would recommend and what additional items are really needed.

I'm a buy once cry once kind of guy, so I'd rather stretch slightly, but want to keep it within reason. And Oh Yeah, I am planning to make pens out of stainless steel, aluminum and other metals--so it doesn't need to be extremely large....

 

[hanau]

I have the grizzly G0602 , I use it to make the turning tools that i make.
I would recommended getting a variable speed wish I would of took that advice when i bought mine. Now I am spending more to convert it then it would of cost to buy the variable lathe from grizzly.

I added a 4 jaw chuck , quick change post bunch of different cutting tools and holders.

Drill chuck that doesn't require the chuck key.

I probably have at least $2-2200 in machine and tooling. Not counting the $-500 to upgrade to variable speed.

 

[moke]

I bought the same lathe as Hanau but got it with the DRO- vs. Then I bought a stand, lots of dies and taps, an extension, multiple mt3 drill chucks and adapters, deming bits, ss and brass stock for making jigs, and three different kinds of sets of cutting tools.....obviously more attachments than I needed but they were handy to have.

I think I have 32 to 3500.00 in it all. I am not sure I would have bought the DRO again...I really don't think it is all that handy.....but I am too new to really grasp what it is capable of. Also delivery was a PITA...but I am not sure what else you would do.

 

[Fish30114]

Thanks for that fella's, I feel I have some more research to do, especially on cutting tools and chucks and so forth, bu that's good intel on the Grizzly stuff.

Appreciate it---Don

 

[TonyL]

Went through this exercise. I came up 4k, but didn't want to spend 4K on a overseas product. It appeared that the Precsions Matthews was a way to go if 4k is your budget. There are many folks delighted with a HF metal lathes as well as the Grizzly. Enjoy the journey...I didn't

 

[Curly]

Aluminium is easy to machine. Stainless and Titanium on the other hand need stouter machines because you can't take light cuts as they will work harden to the point of destroying the tool. The 10x20 lathes are the lightest you can work with. Heavier is better. Chucks, measuring tools, tool holders and bits will end up costing as much as the lathe or more. If you think there is any chance of making bigger things then size the lathe for that work. Used machines can help with the costs if you can find a good one. Another branch of the slippery slope.

 

[magpens]

Be sure to visit LittleMachineShop.com ... great company to deal with but a little more expensive than Grizzly. . LMS has tons of accessories when you need them.

https://littlemachineshop.com/products/search.php?tabName=Products&term=lathe

For sure, get electronic variable speed control right from the beginning ... it is so convenient for doing everything associated with pens

Get a 4-inch 3-jaw chuck, (and a 4-inch 4-jaw chuck ... this is not essential but a nice-to-have and perhaps can be left for a later purchase), both chucks of the self-centering type. . The lathe probably comes with a 3-inch 3-jaw but I find that is a little too small, especially when you want to drill pen blanks on the lathe. . The 4-jaw chuck allows you to put a round 3/4" blank in the jaws and spindle throat and have it held securely while you drill

IMO, there is no need to buy a quick change tool post, but you should get a couple extra of the tool posts that come with the lathe (they are only about $25 each).

You will also need a dead center for the headstock, and you will need a Jacobs chuck (5/8") with arbor for the tailstock. . I believe that a live center for the tailstock comes with the lathe.

Buy a cutting tool from hanau (he will know what you need) and a couple of extra round cutters (store until you need 'em).

And that's about it to get you going.

I have a 7x14 Sieg-style lathe (these all seem to come from the same factory in China) and I have trouble doing mild steel on it. . I have never tried stainless.

If you are serious about doing metals other than aluminum and brass, you may want to go up in size and quality (8.5x16 or 10x20) and in addition to LMS I think Precision Matthews is also worth a look.

http://www.precisionmatthews.com/product-category/lathes/

 

[Fish30114]

Magpens, thanks for that info--very useful--

Tony it sounds like you didn't like going to a metal lathe--what's the story there?

 

[TonyL]

Remember, you asked for the story (and I don't lie).

I was willing to spend the 4k or so. I spent 2 months researching and asking questions including those on the Practical Machinist forum (who really don't want to talk about Chinese lathes..several members sent me PMs with advice and named the lathes above) and The Hobby Machinist forum (they will talk to you about anything...real friendly folks). The IAP folks here were naturally forthcoming and generous with excellent advice. I also called re-sellers of the lathes (all were very happy to answers my questions over and over again). I even visited our good member, Ben Kelley, and I saw the nice work that he does with his metal lathe and made a pair of SS bushings. I really only wanted to turn stainless steel and I thought it would be fun to make bushings and learn metal turning or whatever it is called. So was I about to buy a PM or the TOL LMS model. After all of the above, the following hit me:

I don't want to make the time to learn metal turning (the right way).

My BIL's brother can make me all of the bushings that I want and as many as I want for free (I always send him unwanted gift cards, but he literally make me dozens). I also buy bushings from Nakita, Constant, etc.

I only really wanted to turn stainless quickly.

Being a newbie to this equipment, I would absolutely have no idea how to tweak it and maintain it. Many that I talked to mentioned what they did to theirs to get it just-so. I am delighted that I have removed the bearing from my Jet and replaced the belt...that is as much as I want to maintain or tweak anything).

Lastly, as arrogant and silly as this sounds, I didn't want to spend 4k on a tool that many believed (I know I shouldn't care, but I do) was not worth of being called a metal lathe. I told you this statement was going to sound silly and arrogant.

I have many higher priced "toys" that I don't touch, but they are have intrinsic and extrinsic value to me. This purchase would not given all of the above (time to learn, what I wanted to do, availability of bushings, unfamiliar with equipment, 4k. etc.).

That is this kook's story. I will repeat what I said earlier: many, many, many folks love their HF 7Xs to the PMs and "above" (in fact, there are FB groups just for 7X MLs) and turn some really neat things with them. The equation just didn't make sense to me.

 

[Fish30114]

Tony, thanks for that, I may be headed down a similar path. I converted my Nova DVR XP lathe from 110v to 220v and have made a few other maintenance type repairs-similar to my Drill Press and few other tools, but that is the max of tool 'repair,tweaking' I want to do.

I have been thinking I wanted to make some pens out of stainless, and brass---as well as make some bushings for use on my current woodturning lathe--I don't have a relative that is a metalworker, but I also am a knifemaker and I was thinking if I bought a drill lathe combo, I might could mill slots in guard material and do some other knifemaking oriented stuff with it too.....so the research continues at this point.

Thanks again--Don

 

[TonyL]

You are welcome. I even looked at used American-made Southbends from the 40 and 50s. I drove everyone and myself nuts.

 

[stuckinohio]

You will need/want a collet chuck as well.

 

[More4dan]

I have a HF 7x10 and I have turned brass and stainless steel and even stainless Damascus steel that was so hard it could not be drilled with anything but solid carbide. For the harder materials I use a quality cutting fluid and carbide cutters. It's motored through all of it. The only complaint is the bed length which my next project will be replacing with a 16" bed ($220). I spent about $400 in tooling for quick change tool post and tool holders, drill chuck, die holder, tap guide, cutters in HSS and carbide. Also dial gauges and a magnetic holder and some parts for tuning the lathe and some spare parts. Almost all from Little Machine Shop.

I've even used my little lathe to make specially taps for kitless fountain pens out of O1 tool steel.

I would have loved to have a bigger metal lathe but I couldn't justify the money for a new hobby at the time. The Little 7x lathes should be adequate for pens and most metals you might use. I have some Bronze and some titanium rod in my supply bin that may challenge my mini lathe next.

Danny


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[randyrls]

You will need/want a collet chuck as well.

To join the thread; I second that! Get a collet chuck and a set of collets. You can get a chuck for your wood lathe and another for your metal lathe. Get the same size chuck and the collets are inter-changeable. ER32 will meet most of your needs and is most common. Chucks come in two general classes. Preferred chucks have a thru hole so you can feed long stock thru the back of the chuck. If the chuck has an MT taper on it, the rear of the chuck is solid and stock can't be fed thru. For long stock you may want to make a "Lathe spider" Google that.

Get a set of METRIC collets. Fractional collet sets may have "gaps" above 1/2". A collet is labeled for the maximum size it will grip and the grip range is about minus 1/16" (~1mm).

I did an article awhile back about collets and chucks.

http://content.penturners.org/library/tools_and_jigs/colletchuckusage.pdf

 

[PatrickR]

Collets. Definitely. I have not even used the 3 jaw that came with the lathe. No matter what you think you might use the lathe for, there will be a lot of others that come up.

 

[Fish30114]

thank you Dan and Randy, that is good intel--I have a couple of sets of collets, one of them is still in the box, but I believe they are both MT-2 taper based sets....still plenty to think about!

 

[rherrell]

I would recommend a Precision Matthews machine because of the customer service. Being a first time owner you will need help if anything goes wrong and Matt( owner of company) will talk to you personally on the phone and walk you through whatever problem you have. There is also a PM sub-forum at the Hobby Machinist website that is VERY helpful, it's like the IAP of lathe forums!!!

I have the PM 1340 lathe and have nothing but good things to say about it.

I think their smallest lathe is a 1022 for about $2,000, it has a 1" bore, something you won't find on any other machine that size. It also has a camlock spindle mount, D1-3 I believe, so you won't need to fumble around with nuts and bolts every time you change the chuck, I have the camlock on mine and it takes about 1 minute to change chucks!

I would figure another $1,000 for tooling so for about $3,000 you'll have a machine that will serve you well for a LOOOOONG time!

​

 

[Rifleman1776]

I have a friend who is an engineer and has used lathes all his life. A couple years ago he got a mid sized Grizzly and calls it the "cadillac" of all lathes he has ever used. I have a number of Grizzly woodworking machines and, IMHO, you can't go wrong with them. BTW, if you want American made, don't be fooled by labels. Many tools (Delta, Jet, lot more) come out of the same factories in China and Taiwan as the Grizzly's.

 

[moke]

I know I mentioned in an earlier post that I bought a Grizzly and was happy with it so far. I had been thinking about this post and the comments and decided to weigh back in.

I had decided multiple times to buy a metal lathe, then not, so on and so on. I was maybe a little different in my thought process.....my father was a machinist, a tool and die maker, lathe operator and a periodically a mill. He always said he preferred a lathe and a year before he retired, bid back from tool and die to engine lathes, which was a decrease in pay, because it was more enjoyable to him. He has been deceased for 17 years now.....I have his tools, tool boxes, and some various things he must have "acquired" ( reamers, carbide cutters, etc). I felt it might be some backward way ti re-connect to him. After deciding to not buy a metal lathe, I always seemed to come back to looking at them. So I had set aside some money towards it and one day, I got a notification that the lathe I was looking at came off of backorder, and I just ordered it before I could change my mind again.

Would I get a grizzly again? I think so.....is it the pinnacle of lathes?...certainly not.
Many years ago I had started to purchase Porter Cable cordless tools....at the time they were a very good brand, second to maybe Milwaukee. They were all 12 volt....well as you know things have changed...the batteries got tired and I was walking through HD with my wife and they had one of their famous Ryobi displays.....5 tools for whatever price...I made the comment, oh that's kind of cool. A month later I opened my Christmas gifts to discover that very kit. Being a tool snob, I thought OMG! Being a good husband, I said," Wow, this is great!" That was ten years ago...I now have a huge collection of Ryobi tools and have never worn one out (admittedly they were not as good until Lithium batteries came out) I really do not regret ever going with Ryobi.
Are they the pinnacle? Certainly not....but I look at it this way....I do not use them every day...they do not make my living for me...I have 1/2 to 2/3 the cost in their tools I would in Milwaukee or DeWalt....I have never worn one out.... I can have two of these for the cost of one of those, even if I do wera one out. I'm happy. I look at my Grizzly the same way.

Sunday I had a friend over that has a mini lathe and let him turn a bowl on my Laguana Revo lathe. But, I really needed to drill about 15 pens, so I used my PSI pen blank chuck on the Grizzly. I was done in about 3 hours. While the Laguana is an awesome machine, I was impressed by how precision and "tight" the grizzly was. The Laguana has a 4" reach to the tail stock and the Grizzly only 2.5, which I did miss, but re-positioning was easy and always dead-on. I am not sure I will go back to Laguana to drill from now on.

I do have this strange kindred feeling to my Dad when I use it, but all that aside, I really do like it. It's a great tool. Am I going to use it all the time? No.....I have sawstop that I paid over $3000.00 for and planer that was 1500....on and on....do I use this all the time...no, this is just another tool in my shop. ( I'm not bragging about tools I have...I am 61 years old and have been doing this since I was 21...I should have good tools by now)

Just my .02, it is not my intent to counterdict anyone else....

 

[Fish30114]

Rick, I really appreciate you weighing in, your opinion means a lot to me--I have looked at PM and wasn't sure which machine to really look at-so Thanks. and thanks to all you other folks that have weighed in--I appreciate all the input.

 

[BSea]

thank you Dan and Randy, that is good intel--I have a couple of sets of collets, one of them is still in the box, but I believe they are both MT-2 taper based sets....still plenty to think about!

If you have ER 32 collets, this works great https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-80MM-DIAMETER-ER-32-COLLET-CHUCK-Compact-Lathe-Tight-Tolerance/112352365393?epid=2193940853&hash=item1a28b90b51:g:Hf4AAOSwPCFZqNFd

I almost never take mine off. For pen turning, I don't think you ever need to take it off.

If you go this route, you'll need a Straight Shank Dead Center from Rick Herrell. I got mine in 3/4" rather than 1/2". I have a complete set of metric e32 collets, and a lone 3/4" collet, so that was my reason over the 1/2".

 

[Curly]

Psst Bob. If he gets a metal lathe he can make his own straight shank centre.

Also if he opts for a bigger lathe the ER32 collet chucks available to fit decline to none. To venture there you have to start looking for a 5C chuck and they are spendy critters, as much as a small bench lathe.

 

[BSea]

Psst Bob. If he gets a metal lathe he can make his own straight shank centre.

LOL, True, but for $12, seems like a no brainer.

Also if he opts for a bigger lathe the ER32 collet chucks available to fit decline to none. To venture there you have to start looking for a 5C chuck and they are spendy critters, as much as a small bench lathe.

Psst Curly. If he gets a bigger lathe, he can make his own collet chuck. :biggrin: Granted, it's a much harder project, and he'd need a friend with a mill.

I have a friend who has a bigger PM lathe (13-40 I think). He posted something on one of the metal turning forums asking about collet checks. Someone offered to make him one for cost IIRC. He had it made for ER 50 collets (again IIRC). I'll see if I can find where he posted the info.

 

[More4dan]

I understand why those with a wood lathe need a collet chuck, but why would someone with a metal lathe? Why not just use a 3 jaw chuck? If worried about runout, use a 4 jaw and a dial indicator.

Or does the collet allow chucking without marring the finish. If so I might be shipping for one too.

You could use a taper adapter to allow the smaller tooling on the larger lathe.

Danny


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[bmachin]

Danny,

The major advantage of a collet chuck is that it allows you to remove a piece of work from the lathe and return it while keeping the same center.

This Old Tony on YouTube has a very good explanation of all of this. I would give you a direct link, but for some reason I can't access Youtube right now. The video has chucks in the title I believe.

You are collect that collets are much less likely to mar the finish. Basically an ER collet has a smooth, polished interior with a series of longitudinal slots.

Just make sure to order a chuck that bolts to the spindle, not a morse taper.

Bill

 

[bmachin]

Her's the link to the YouTube video I referenced earlier:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K67bZQSETiE

This guy is really a lot of fun to watch and keeps everything on a down to earth level.

Bill

 

[Fish30114]

OK guys, at this point I have narrowed it down to the PM 1030V lathe, what I need some advice on is: what should I buy with it, currently I have selected the 1/2" boring turning tool kit, and need to know if there are other items with or instead of that I should get at the time of purchase--if I do in fact buy a metal lathe!
One other line of questioning, do you do any turning 'by hand' with a metal lathe, or do you always just dial in the machine and let it do the cutting?

 

[stuckinohio]

In my opinion you will want the convenience of a collet chuck and collets. So much easier than a 3 or 4 jaw chuck.

Mostly no need for turning by hand on the metal lathe. I played around with it until I learned how to cut angles on it for nose cones.

 

[thewishman]

Or does the collet allow chucking without marring the finish. If so I might be shipping for one too.
]

Danny, I find the collet chuck works really well for holding round and hex stock, as well as kinda round stuff like rebar (with a modified collet). The non-marring benefit sold me.

I do lots of drilling, so a collet closer pays for itself many times over. That would probably not be something that most people use as much.

 

[mredburn]

One of the benefits of a collet is that it has greater gripping power when you go to use a tap or die for forming threads. If you use the lathe for single point threading than its not quite as bad but I have know a piece to spin in place in a 3 jaw chuck while trying to cut threads, ruining the piece. IF your going to thread softer materials like plastics for inserts for cap threads, like Delrin, the collet wall keep the part uniform as the inside threads are cut, I have seen Delrin elongnate between the jaws of a 3 jaw chuck while cutting threads, you still get threading but it wont cut deep enough for the part to work.
With softer metals or thin walls you can make a plug out of brass to fit inside the part so that it doesnt capsize when you clamp down on it.

 

[Fish30114]

Guys, this input is all beneficial and helpful, I appreciate it all very much. If anyone has input on which PM lathe they recommend I appreciate that--I'm really not sure what I'm looking at, but I think the tailstock on the one I'm looking at requires a wrench to lock it into position, and I think this is something I do not want....I think the PM-1228VF model has a cam locking tailstock--so maybe that's worth stepping up to get if I do this???

Or should I look at the Weiss WBL290F it seems to have all the features, and even the WBL250F seems to have a cam locking tailstock, but doesn't have a lot of these features--
Indep. Spindle / Leadscrew NO
D1-4 American Std Camlock Spindle NO
Separate Leadscrew / Feed Rod NO
Spindle Oiling Holes NO
Toolless Thread Change Gears NO
Access Door on Gearbox NO

But the next unit up the WBL 290F does have all these.


Thanks for all the help!