Wanting to get new Metal Lathe

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moke

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I know this question has been asked over and over again, but I am seeking some advice from the metal lathe crowd....

I have been close to buying a metal lathe several times and something else comes along and I get it...last time the Laguana Revo went on sale and just like my wife with something tiny and shiny....I went for it (although a Revo is anything but tiny and shiny). Now in a little under 6 months I am retiring from one of my jobs and my income will go down...so this might be a good chance at least for a while to get my Metal Lathe. So if you could please help a guy with very limited knowledge of metal lathes get the best one for him.

Why and what do I intend to do with it?
-I want to do a few tools for myself and other lathes friends in our club.
-Mostly I want to do kitless pens
-My late Father was a machinist, I have all his tools (though they are at least 30 or 40 years old) and I have always wanted to be a little more like him, this may draw me a little closer.
-Some of his talented co workers are very old now and we are starting to loose them. While this site is great, I feel I could be benefited by their "hands-on" knowledge.

I have it narrowed down to two lathes. I have seen the 8x22 little Machine shop be recommended here a lot.....I have researched it and the power x and Y look awesome....but it has gears for threading.

I am also considering the Grizzly 10x22 variable speed. As you know it does not use the gear threading system but only has power x feed. No power cross.

So is the power cross feed ok to loose for the convenience of not having to change gears? Is this a good trade off, or not that big of a deal. Both are between 1700 and 1800.

Second question: My older machinist friends hate metric threading...I have some doubt if they want to show me how.....they explained to me it is way harder than SAE...is that true? Something about throwing the power feed in and out of gear instantly???? And pens kit parts are metric so I have no choice, right? I am wondering if this is due to the era they are from?

Thank you in advance for your help.
 
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mredburn

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Lots of answers here.
Using gears for threading is not that bad, you can make more thread sizes than a gear box. Mostly though you will only use std pitches.
Most people still use tap and dies to thread pen parts. It takes less time to set up and tap a hole with a tap thats 12mm or less in diameter than it does to set up the whole machine. Think setting up the gears,getting an inside threading tool small enough to get inside the hole, making sure the threading tool is set correctly. Running several passes to cut the threads deep enough.
The same with using a die, the length of your threads are so short unless you have a brake on your lathe you will have a hard time starting and stopping the lathe in time.

The problems they refer to in threading metric have to do with making metric threads on an Inch Threaded lead Screw. You have the same problem with making Imperial (inch) threads on a lathe with a metric screw pitch lead screw.
You have to Either engage the carriage precisely at the same point, which doesnt happen easily or you have to leave the carriage locked on to the Lead screw and turn the lathe backwards to make another pass. Either turning it by hand, with a crank or reversible motor if the lathe has one.

If you make all the parts on the pen yourself you can make the threads in std inch configuration. 32 TPI works ok. Then you dont need to worry about metric threads. You can make coarser threads but that tends to have its own set of problems.
 
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Rockytime

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I had four lathes and now have scaled down to two which can cut threads. The MaxiMat7 and Sherline both have change gears. I hate being bothered setting up the change gears so I don't, I use taps and dies. I do not like working in metric (many prefer metric) so if I were to purchase a new lathe I would probably go with the MicroLux from MicroMark because it has an inch lead screw. It is a small lathe 7X16 but is capable of doing many things. My advice, however, is only worth what you are paying for. Hope you find what you are looking for because it opens up a world of fun.
 

bluwolf

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As Mike Redburn has explained so well, and Rocky has agreed, as do I, if you're doing primarily pens, taps and dies are the way to go. If you want to learn how to cut threads you can still do that when you're more comfortable with the lathe. But I wouldn't let cutting threads muddy the waters while you're deciding on which lathe to get. They all cut threads one way or another.

I will add another choice to your lathe list. The Precision Matthews 10x22.

PM-1022V and PM-1030V Precsision Lathes

For starters it has power cross feed, and yes, it's nice to have. The other BIG thing that stands out to me is that the PM looks to have a camlock tailstock. The grizzly looks like it uses a wrench to loosen and tighten the tailstock. My first 7x14 used a wrench too. That got old real fast. I got a camlock tailstock for Christmas 2 months later:)

And while I'm helping you spend your money I would get the optional quick change toolpost that needs no modification to bolt on. Switching tooling and shimming it for height on center with the stock toolpost also gets old fast.

Matt at Precision Matthews is also great to deal with. His customer service is becoming legendary on the metalworking forums. I've got my own great experiences but that's another story. No, no affiliation, yada, yada, yada.

Lastly, I'd also go with the bigger lathe. Little Machine Shop is a great company and their lathe is probably the best in that size. But in this case bigger is better. You can make small stuff on a big lathe, but you can't make big stuff on a small lathe. After my 7x14 I went to a 12x36, again another story. Mike didn't mention it but he has the same 12x36 as me. Of course he has a couple other lathes too:)

Mike
 

moke

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Thank you for your input Gentleman. Is there a reasonably price set of Metric taps and dies? Are HF ok, or not so much? Also, do I recall seeing an MT2 device to hold taps and dies? I know I saw one someplace, but it may have been home made.....but then maybe that could be my first project on my new lathe! And as Mike said...are you guys using SAE instead of Metric or a combination of both?

The tap and die thing has taken a great load off my mind.....when I told my machinist friend about wanting to thread Metric, his face color changed to red.....
Thanks again for the great advice...
Mike
 

mredburn

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Generally we are using metric. Victor Machinery at victornet.com has good prices on metric tap and dies in the finer threads. HF sets are not fine enough for pen making as a rule. The reason is that most of those sets even the fine threads are too coarse.
You will need a tap guide and a die holder. I made my own die holder but a tap guide is 6-12 dollars. $6 for the chinese off ebay and 12 for the US made ones.
You can use the coarser threads but the bigger the pitch the more material you have to cut making the threads and that can put a strain on resins that will cause your threading to fail. I feel that .5 mm pitch is too fine for most uses. I like .75 or .8 mm pitches as a general rulle. 1mm pitch on very large diameters is not bad say 14mm or larger. I believe that Little Machine shop carries a die holder.
 

Curly

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Adding to Mike's comment about Victor. They have a simple die holder that you slide over a transfer punch held in the chuck of your tailstock. Hand turning it is sufficient for any plastics and perhaps aluminium, I haven't tried it on metals yet. I'm of the bigger is better group.
 

frank123

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Die holders are extremely simple tools and if you have the lathe you can make them as needed so you have a specific dedicated die holder for each die size you are using.

They don't have to be fancy to work perfectly, just minimalist functional is fine.
 

randyrls

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Second question: My older machinist friends hate metric threading...I have some doubt if they want to show me how.....they explained to me it is way harder than SAE...is that true? Something about throwing the power feed in and out of gear instantly???? And pens kit parts are metric so I have no choice, right? I am wondering if this is due to the era they are from?

You can certainly do pen threads in SAE. Most cap threads are multi-start. Most lathes can do both metric and SAE. It is easier if the leadscrew is the same system (metric or SAE), but it is certainly doable. The easiest way is to start threading and leave the leadscrew engaged until you are finished. This involves retracting the tool, and reversing the lathe back to the start and beginning another pass.

OOPS..... church now. More later??
 

farmer

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Die holder

Die holders are extremely simple tools and if you have the lathe you can make them as needed so you have a specific dedicated die holder for each die size you are using.

They don't have to be fancy to work perfectly, just minimalist functional is fine.


Mine is on a pilot.

Here is a picture of the pilot without the die
 

moke

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Thanks so much guys for taking the time to help me. I would like to pick up a holder, and start to accumulate the taps and dies.....should I use a triple start? A few years ago I bought a triple start set of just one size, on a group buy.....as I recall it was over a 100.00. At that price I would not want to buy a lot of extra ones that are unneeded. What is the recommended sizes I should get......having said that, I don't want to scrimp.
I recall ten years ago when I started down this lathe path....the lathe was the cheapest part....by far! I'm starting to get that feeling again!!!! LOL
Thanks again for all your help....
 
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RobS

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Form follows function. The nib size will dictate the nib thread which in turns dictates the section thread, which dictates the body/cap.

So what do you plan on making #5, #6 or #8?
I'm no expert and am working on a Jowo #6, 7.4mx.5 nib (silver pen parts), with 10x.75 (Victor machine) section with 14x.75 (Victor machine) single start body cap.
 

mredburn

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Since you have a triple set, I imagine its the 12mm, focus on Single lead threads.
Pick a nib, Brand Jowo, Bock, Schmidt, and size,5, or 6, dont worry about #8 yet, and start there. You will need a tap for the feed housing that goes inside the Front Section. (thats the brand specific tap). You will need a tap and die for the Front Section to the coupler or pen body. You will need a tap and die for the cap threads. You may need a tap and die for cap threads, that can be the same one as the front section or it may be a different size it depends on your design. Once you get your pen design down pat you can figure out if the triple lead you have will work.
A typical range would be
#6 feed, Bock is 7.9 x .6 Jowo is 7.4 x .5 Schmidt 6.4 x.5(or the 6.5 x.5 will work)
10mm for the Front section and possibly the cap thread if you use any.
12mm for the cap
You may not need threads on the cap if you make closed end pens and dont use a clip. Or you can make the end caps and glue them in. You will need to sort out what you want to make.
 

moke

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Thank you for the suggestions...sorry I have been absent....
Change of Sports seasons=Team Sports Photographer is very busy!
I will begin to collect the stuff I need in preparation.
 
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