Little Machine Shop Sieg C3

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keithbyrd

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Sep 2, 2011
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Mount Wolf, PA
I need some advice. I hear about metal lathes a lot on here and I have been toying around with buying one. Not being a metalsmith, I think I want one but I am not sure what I will do with it that I can't do with my wood lathes. Primary interest is pen making. So some advice and insight please:
1. what do you do with a metal lathe that you can't with a wood lathe in pen making?
2. Do you use both a wood and metal lathe or do you make all your pens on a metal lathe?

Here is the kicker: My wife said a few minutes ago - I want to get you a metal lathe for your birthday and Father's Day. You have been talking about them so I want to get you one! I don't know many guys that will run away from that offer!
So next questions:
1 Reading on several other posts it sounds like Little Machine shop is the place to go?
2. Sounds like the Sieg C3 is the right mini lathe?
3. If I get it what do I need to get in the way of accessories to get me going well? Not looking for all the accessories I can use but which are the smart ones to have?

I appreciate any insights you all give me!
 
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magpens

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Feb 2, 2011
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WOW ! . I thought nobody would ever ask that question(s) !!

I bought a Sieg lathe over 7 years ago and I have been using it ever since to make pens; I find it indispensible.

What do I do with it that I could not do with a wood lathe ? Don't have to use a skew ! Don't have to sharpen !
I make all my pens on it ... 750 of them so far, wood, acrylic and metal.

I can easily get my pen blanks turned round, which is always my starting point. Accurately round and that is a big thing to me.
I can easily drill my blanks accurately, which is extremely important to me.
I can drill to an accurate and reproductible depth ... great for kitless pens.

I can easily do without a mandrel and use TBC bushings or no bushings at all.

I can easily modify pen parts and tubes. (you can do that on a wood lathe too).

The reason I bought it was because I had learned to use a metal lathe at university when I had to make parts and equipmtment for my experiments. . I loved using it, so after I retired, I just happened to see this "cheap" metal lathe and I wanted it. . This was well before I discovered that people make pens. . Suddenly, when I made that discovery, I knew what I wanted to use my metal lathe for !! :)

Little Machine Shop is the place to go, but you can get a Sieg type lathe (and most cheaper metal lathes are likely lathe made in the Sieg factory in China) at other places ... eg. Harbor Freight, Grizzly, etc ... I think they are all the same. . But LMS will give you the best service and they have a huge selection of accessories you might eventually find useful.

You don't need to buy a lot of tools. I got Rick Herrell to make me one toolholder that I use for everything and I occasionally buy replacement cutters for it for about $8 each. Do not buy those cutters with carbide WELDED to steel ... you may eventually want one or two of them for special jobs but I use a 11mm round carbide replaceable cutter on my Rick Herrell tool holder all the time for nearly everything. . Another essential is a parting tool for about $8.

Your lathe will come with a 3-jaw chuck, which is all you really need, but I also bought a 4-jaw chuck which is very handy for pen blanks because most of them start off square.

The tool holder post that comes with the lathe is totally adequate.

Keith, please write to me and ask more questions. . I can't think of everything to tell you but you will never be sorry that you own a Sieg C3 !!!

BTW ... I also bought (more recently) a bench top wood lathe, mainly because I thought I owed it to myself to learn to "turn wood properly" and learn to use a skew. But using a metal lathe is so much more to my liking that I never use the wood lathe except for a little bit of buffing now and then. . Also, I have had a hard time learning to sharpen wood gouges and skews and scrapers. Of course, nowadays you can buy carbide tools for wood turning, but they are really expensive compared to what I use on my metal lathe (and they are not much different).

Keith, it sounds like you have a wonderfully understanding and insightful wife !!! . Just say, "Yes please, darling!" and appreciate her !!
She's a gem !!!!!
 
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leehljp

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Feb 6, 2005
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Tunica, Mississippi,
I was around lathes and milling as a kid and I remember watching machining with oil cooling. But on the Seig, on Grizzly and on other small lathes, I don't see oil cooling and lubing.

IS oil cooling/lubing not necessary on small lathes? How do you keep the temps down and lube the cuts when turning machining aluminum, brass, steel, etc.?

Thanks for your insight on this.
 
Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Messages
157
Location
Maryland
I need some advice. I hear about metal lathes a lot on here and I have been toying around with buying one. Not being a metalsmith, I think I want one but I am not sure what I will do with it that I can't do with my wood lathes. Primary interest is pen making. So some advice and insight please:
1. what do you do with a metal lathe that you can't with a wood lathe in pen making?
2. Do you use both a wood and metal lathe or do you make all your pens on a metal lathe?

Here is the kicker: My wife said a few minutes ago - I want to get you a metal lathe for your birthday and Father's Day. You have been talking about them so I want to get you one! I don't know many guys that will run away from that offer!
So next questions:
1 Reading on several other posts it sounds like Little Machine shop is the place to go?
2. Sounds like the Sieg C3 is the right mini lathe?
3. If I get it what do I need to get in the way of accessories to get me going well? Not looking for all the accessories I can use but which are the smart ones to have?

I appreciate any insights you all give me!
I am a blacksmith by trade and have 3 southbends as well as a wells index mill. with these lathes I can turn down the damascus blanks that I make like these...The added benifit of turning my own bushings is an added plus. Please feel free to pm me any questions and I will be happy to help in any way.
 

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Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Messages
157
Location
Maryland
I was around lathes and milling as a kid and I remember watching machining with oil cooling. But on the Seig, on Grizzly and on other small lathes, I don't see oil cooling and lubing.

IS oil cooling/lubing not necessary on small lathes? How do you keep the temps down and lube the cuts when turning machining aluminum, brass, steel, etc.?

Thanks for your insight on this.

It largely depends on your depth of cut and how fast you are advancing ie. speeds and feeds. on my 9" SB lathe I use oil coolent at an .025" depth of cut but on my 16" SB I don't use anything till my cut exceeds .100". However I always use coolent when drilling or boring. Don't hes atate to pm me with any questions.
 
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
22
Location
New Plymouth, ID
I appologize if I'm repeating anything that's been said above. I haven't read the other comments yet.
I've been running a mini metal lathe for about 2 years now.
You CAN do everything you do on a wood lathe with a metal lathe, some it takes some igunity and the making of your own tools, but it can be done. That being said a metal lathe offers a lot that a wood lathe doesn't.

The biggest difference in a metal lathe is the fact that you do not hold the tool in your hand. It is on a slide that is mounted to your bed. You turn a few little wheels to move the tooling. You can buy a wood turning post to mount on your metal lathe however so that you can also turn by hand like you are used to.

But the cross slide tooling allow some for much greater accuracy. If ou know what you are doing you can turn something within 0.001" measurements. You can also much easier cut metal on a metal lathe.

If ou haven't yet, watch some basic videos on YouTube.

I use a Grizzly 7x12 mini lathe. Saving up to upgrade to something larger however, but for what I do (mostly making rings) it is perfect. I'd prefer a larger spindle bore (the hole that runs through the headstock) and some larger jaws. Also a slightly bigger motor would be nice, but it's a great little lathe. I run it for about 5 hours average every day. I've only had to put about $100 into in the past two years and I bought it for around $500. Well worth the money so far. That being said I probably have $5,000 worth of tools for it at this point...

If you are wanting to make kitless pens, I'd suggest going with a slightly larger model. Most bespoke pens makers say you want something with higher torque which is generally in a quite large ($3,000+) model. But my little 7x12 works for them. Metal just takes a little bit of patience.
 

magpens

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Turning aluminum and brass on the little Sieg is fine and you don't need to worry much about lubricants ... spray on some WD-40 for doing threads.

No problem doing kitless in aluminum, brass or acrylic

Hank, you don't need to be too concerned about lubes except with steel (which I don't do). . Machining aluminum and brass without lube is OK ... I only take light cuts and spray on a bit of lube for the finishing cuts, or if I am threading.
 
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Joined
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Messages
157
Location
Maryland
So with the 7x12 you can't turn steel/stainless or you have to go slower?

When it comes to turning metal speed (rpm) is not as important as speed (feed rate) my 9" has 12 speeds and the fastest is 1300 rpm but has well over 30 feed rates. cutter selection is also important weather you use HSS or carbide. how mush does the lathe weigh? the more stout the heavier cut you can make.
 

More4dan

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Mar 17, 2016
Messages
2,102
Location
Katy, TX
I turn Stainless Steel on mine. I use cutting fluid and shallower cuts 0.010". I've also cut hardened Stainless Steel Damascus with carbide cutters. I made a simple tool rest for mine to use it just like a wood lathe.
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I also use it to make my own specialty taps for Bock and JOWO fountain pen sections, they cost $40-$50 each.
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magpens

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Canada
So with the 7x12 you can't turn steel/stainless or you have to go slower?


You can turn steel by taking VERY light cuts. I have not tried stainless.
My version of the lathe has only 1/3 HP motor

Phone LMS and ask to talk to Chris ... he knows everything about the mini lathes and mills that they sell.
 
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Messages
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New Plymouth, ID
You can most definitely cut all metals... or most. I haven't cut everything, but I've cut stainless, carbon steel, carbon fiber even, carbon damascuss, stainless damascuss, copper, brass, aluminum...
I attached(or hope I did) a picture of a stainless steel damascuss (vegas forge) ring I made with a Jack Daniels whiskey barrel inlay with a carbon fiber spacer. All turned on my little Grizzly 7x12 mini lathe.
I apologize for not having more pen photos but I'm mostly a ring maker. Like I said in the previous comment tho, I run this little metal lathe almost daily.

Lubricant. Depends on how hot the metal is getting and if your tool is having trouble cutting. With some metals it's hard to take a skim cut (like copper) and will require a bit more of a bite. (That is up for debate, but I find a much cleaner cut with a nice deep pass [moving my tool in about 0.020" yes that's a deep pass on this baby lathe]) I usually use threading oil (picked it up a local parts store) when I cut any kind of steel. Other than that I almost never use lube.

Get a good set of carbide insert tools (little machine shop is the place to go for those) and you shouldn't have any issues with most metals you cut.

A big draw back the 7x12 is cutting your own threads. You have to change out the gears and the lead screw likes to pop back into neutral which usually ruins your threads. If you'd like to cut your own threads without using a die I'd get a larger lathe with a built in gear box, but if you are just looking for some more accuracy and the ability to simply cut metal I'd say it's a great choice. I love mine... but I am looking for a bigger one. I would like to to be able to turn more larger projects. I'd also like to be able to run larger bar stock through my headstock so I can in a sense mass produce some of my projects by cutting them off and extending the bar out for the next piece. The 7x12 lathe only has a 3/4" spindle bore (however the chuck does not, which is easily fixed by removing your jaws and very carefully running a boring bar through it to open it up, I did this months ago and have had zero issues with it since, I might suggest taking it off and check to make sure you won't cut through the walls first)

To turn my kitless pens (still in the experimenting phase) I run a 3/4" rod of alumilite I fasted through the headstock and cut pieces off as a finish them. If you have any questions feel free to message me. I'll give you my number and we can talk. I'd even be willing to video chat with you and show you the differences.

Hope I didn't run on for too long hahahaha
 

cwolfs69

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Apr 24, 2011
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portsmouth, va
i would not get the C3 from LMS. i would go ahead and buy their HI-torque 7 x 16 for the extra $300 you will certainly not regret it later on. the difference in craftsmanship is remarkable.
 

keithbyrd

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Sep 2, 2011
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Mount Wolf, PA
You all have given some great responses! I really appreciate it - I am moving forward with the gift from my wife.
I won't even try to respond to each persons post just say Thank you to ALL of you!
We are in the process of selling our house and moving to PA in the next month or two - pray for my house to sell! But with this move it will probably be 2-3 months before I actually get to use it!
 
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Joined
Oct 4, 2016
Messages
157
Location
Maryland
You all have given some great responses! I really appreciate it - I am moving forward with the gift from my wife.
I won't even try to respond to each persons post just say Thank you to ALL of you!
We are in the process of selling our house and moving to PA in the next month or two - pray for my house to sell! But with this move it will probably be 2-3 months before I actually get to use it!

Where in PA if close to oxford or reading you can visit my shop in north east MD.
 

stuckinohio

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Columbus Ohio
Also, if you are moving to Pennsylvania, that is where www.precisionmatthews.com is located. They are highly regarded in the lathe business as far as I can tell. He gives a little longer warranty I believe and maybe bundles stuff in packages so you get more of what you need without piecing everything together.

I assume they are same lathes as the Sieg, but you might want to check them out.
 

bmachin

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Jul 28, 2013
Messages
613
Location
Owensboro, KY
A couple of suggestions:

First go to Mini-lathe.com. Read the reviews. Lots of good background info on metal lathes, accessories, and lathe work.

On Little Machine Shop's site, go here for a comparison of the available c3 lathes:
Mini Lathe Comparison - LittleMachineShop.com

The Micro-Mark and the LMS Hi-Torque are essentially identical machines. The main difference is that the MM controls are .050"/rev and the LMS controls are 1mm/rev. Prices are comparable; shipping from Micro-Mark will be UPS and probably be less.

FWIW

Bill
 

Paul in OKC

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Jul 26, 2004
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Oklahoma City, OK, USA.
I was around lathes and milling as a kid and I remember watching machining with oil cooling. But on the Seig, on Grizzly and on other small lathes, I don't see oil cooling and lubing.

IS oil cooling/lubing not necessary on small lathes? How do you keep the temps down and lube the cuts when turning machining aluminum, brass, steel, etc.?

Thanks for your insight on this.

Some lube is always best (IMHO) when cutting metals, especially aluminum. It can be 'sticky' and welds itself to the cutting tool at times. I keep a spray bottle handy with cutting fluid, especially for drilling. Light turning can be done dry without a whole lot of heat, but I still give a squirt every few seconds.
 

Paul in OKC

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I will say I am impressed at what is done on these little machines, by people with little or no background in metal work. I have been a machinist for 40 years now, and the technical side of my brain over rules the artistic side all the time and locks up! I am an over thinker. I will say since I have made two kitless pens finally I will be doing more on the metal lathe!
 

mredburn

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Fort Myers FL
I use lube for Steel, sometimes I use a bottle applying a couple of drops or I can brush it on. The cutting oil from the plumbing dept for black pipe works well enough.
There are special inserts that cut aluminum really cut cleanly with little or no lube but you should use some lube to keep the aluminum from melting on bonding to the tip of the cutting tool or insert. Regular cutting oil, Trans Fluid is another, Brass 360 requires no lube for cutting.

As far as the lathe, an Er 32 (or larger) collet chuck is probably the #1 accessory (with collets of course.) A decent Quick Change post is nice. A set of changeable insert tool holders. THere are several different shapes, the triangles are the most common for the smaller lathes but I find the 55 degree diamond style better for me. A boring bar or boring set is also a good investment. Drilling is a good way to start a hole but not the best for a finished one. A good repeatable Drill chuck and a long nosed live center are really handy. I like the cnc profiled live centers. They allow you to get closer to smaller diameter work, that makes life a lot easier.
 

magpens

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Feb 2, 2011
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Canada
I agree with Charley above ....

... go for the LMS Hi-Torque lathe for the extra $300

I would buy the Hi-Torque instead of the Sieg C3 if I had it to do again.

Phone LMS and ask to talk to Chris who is extremely nice to talk to and can give you the complete and valuable advice that you need.
 

keithbyrd

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Sep 2, 2011
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Mount Wolf, PA
You all have given some great responses! I really appreciate it - I am moving forward with the gift from my wife.
I won't even try to respond to each persons post just say Thank you to ALL of you!
We are in the process of selling our house and moving to PA in the next month or two - pray for my house to sell! But with this move it will probably be 2-3 months before I actually get to use it!

Where in PA if close to oxford or reading you can visit my shop in north east MD.

I will be moving to the York, PA area. I will reach out and plan a visit! Thanks!
 

stuckinohio

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May 3, 2015
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Columbus Ohio
Thanks for the info Mal. Do you know what the difference is between all those Sieg lathes and the lathes that Precision Matthews sells? It's so hard to figure out.
 

dogcatcher

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Jul 4, 2007
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TX, NM or on the road
I have my mini for about 12 years, it took about 6 years to convince myself I needed the quick change tool post. That was the best thing that I added to the tooling arsenal.

I use ATF for cutting and cooling fluid and sometimes I mix it 50/50 with kerosene. A retired machinist suggested both. But my brain balks at using the kerosene mix, so it ot use very often.
 

magpens

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Lewis .... sorry I don't know the differences, and not very familiar with Precision Matthews

Dogcatcher .... which QCTP do you have ?

The most useful accessory I have purchased is a 4" 4-jaw chuck (not independent jaws).
 
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KBs Pensnmore

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Oct 16, 2010
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Murray Bridge 5253 Australia
I had a C3 lathe, that was given to me by my brother (the Indian giver) till he wanted it back. I couldn't load it into boxes quick enough.
I had nothing but trouble with it, the gears inside are plastic, uses the same gears as the X2 mill, another piece of rubbish.
I went through about 4 sets of gears, 5 drive belts, 4 motor pulleys, 2 motors, 2 driven pulleys, a circuit board, and that much patience, it sent me nuts.
Even though I was using it very gently, no matter what I did it was apart more often than it was used.:mad:
Kryn
 

leehljp

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I had a C3 lathe, that was given to me by my brother (the Indian giver) till he wanted it back. I couldn't load it into boxes quick enough.
I had nothing but trouble with it, the gears inside are plastic, uses the same gears as the X2 mill, another piece of rubbish.
I went through about 4 sets of gears, 5 drive belts, 4 motor pulleys, 2 motors, 2 driven pulleys, a circuit board, and that much patience, it sent me nuts.
Even though I was using it very gently, no matter what I did it was apart more often than it was used.:mad:
Kryn

That sucks! IF I had that much problem with a lathe, I think it might add a year to my life by giving it back. Giving it back might be a blessing in disguise! :biggrin: Live long and prosper! :biggrin:
 

More4dan

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Mar 17, 2016
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Katy, TX
I've had the C2 version for just over a year. The only parts I've had to replace were the power switch and the speed control Potentiometer. I should count myself lucky I guess.


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