Lathe envy

[Gilrock]

Am I the only one who buys a lathe and then sees everyone else's lathe and starts wishing I had gotten something different? My Jet 9x20 seems great for a lot of things I might do but working with hard metals like steel make me feel like I could have done better. I get the job done but I feel like I'm having to take baby cuts and I haven't gotten nice finishes on the harder metals. Plus I'm starting to get tired of moving the belt to change speeds. It never bothered me on the wood lathe maybe cause I can move the belt so fast or that I don't move it that often.

I tried to keep the cost down but now I'm wishing I had invested more into it. I see Ben's new lathe and it has variable speed and auto-cross feed features...I see Rick's South Bend 8K lathe that just looks to be built awesome from its photos...but if I were to change lathes I'm kinda leaning to liking that PM1127VF lathe that Justin bought.

 

[IPD_Mr]

Gil - For the money you did good. To go with that PM1127 I think you were talking two or more times what you already paid. Trick your Jet out a little at a time. There are some really neat add ons. I know I would really like to add a DRO to the tail stock so I can measure the depth of the drilling. I really love the Jet and yes there are some vintage as well as high end lathes I would love to have. Heck at one time I wanted a Powermatic lathe, but I am more happy now with the Jet metal lathe.

 

[Gilrock]

Well I can tell now I really didn't know what to look for when I bought it. Another thing really bugging me is the 1.5" travel on the tailstock.

 

[IPD_Mr]

Another thing really bugging me is the 1.5" travel on the tailstock.

Actually when I have a chuck in the tail stock it is more like 1" travel. I would love to find away around this as well. Maybe Mike & Mike would have some good input.

 

[bluwolf]

Another thing really bugging me is the 1.5" travel on the tailstock.

Actually when I have a chuck in the tail stock it is more like 1" travel. I would love to find away around this as well. Maybe Mike & Mike would have some good input.

Yes, I was very surprised when I learned the TS travel was so short on the 9x20. Even the 7x12 has 2 1/2" of travel. I don't have a good answer for that one. Maybe one of the other guys with a 9x20 knows something.

Mike, as far as your loss of travel with the drill chuck, when you have a live center in it, is the travel any better? My point being, sometimes the morse taper shafts are too long. They end up backing into the self ejector on the tailstock too soon. You can cure that by cutting a little of the morse taper shaft off. A die grinder with a thin cut-off blade works great for that. Same goes for the live center, but a little loss of travel with that is usually not a big problem, not like it is with the drill chuck.

Mike

 

[bluwolf]

Am I the only one who buys a lathe and then sees everyone else's lathe and starts wishing I had gotten something different? My Jet 9x20 seems great for a lot of things I might do but working with hard metals like steel make me feel like I could have done better. I get the job done but I feel like I'm having to take baby cuts and I haven't gotten nice finishes on the harder metals. Plus I'm starting to get tired of moving the belt to change speeds. It never bothered me on the wood lathe maybe cause I can move the belt so fast or that I don't move it that often.

I tried to keep the cost down but now I'm wishing I had invested more into it. I see Ben's new lathe and it has variable speed and auto-cross feed features...I see Rick's South Bend 8K lathe that just looks to be built awesome from its photos...but if I were to change lathes I'm kinda leaning to liking that PM1127VF lathe that Justin bought.

Gil, if it makes you feel any better, yeah, plenty of guys (or girls) would like to have a bigger machine. But few of us have the funds to do it. But if I'm not mistaken this is your first metal lathe, right? And along with that goes a minimum of experience? Don't take it the wrong way, I'm not a machinist, I'm barely what you'd call a hobbyist, so I'm not talking down to you. But with some experience you could be getting better results with the machine you have.

As Ken Farrell mentiuoned in another thread, he turns stainless steel on his 9x20 all day long. He says he's very happy with the machine. Before Rick bought that sweet Southbend, he was regularly turning tool steel on a 7x12 or something similar. They both have more machining experience than we have which goes a long way towards getting the results they want.

I've got a very nice PM1236, sold by the same company as that 1127 you were eyeing up. I love it. But I still struggle with surface finish on some of the harder materials. I know the lathe is capable of it, I just haven't sorted out the feeds and speeds and whatever else is the problem that my lack of experience is keeping from me.

My point is, if you have the money to throw at the problem, it's worth a try I suppose. But without the experience, I'm still not sure you're going to be happy with the results. Although you probably will have more fun peeling off more material faster to get to the point where you're still not happy with the finished product. I know I am:biggrin:

Just food for thought...

Mike

 

[Curly]

Put the drill chuck on the carriage and you have all the travel you need.

LittleMachineShop.com - QC 2MT Tool Holder, AXA

 

[mredburn]

Nice link Pete. I adapted a chuck to my QCTP also It works great. If your going to move up just go right to the Pm 1236 and get it over with.

 

[Haynie]

Nope. And I am getting out my soap box.

I have an older version of this.

I have had no desire to replace it. I've watched precision engine parts be made on it. Everything we needed to do with a metal lathe in the shop was able to be done on it. There are no bells and whistles but it gets the job done with very few parts to break down. The only thing I can't figure out how to do on it is taper. Supposedly it can be done, but I can't figure it out. It has handled every metal we have thrown at it from soft stuff like aluminum and brass to stainless, hardened steel and cast iron. Sure the harder stuff requires shallower cuts and murders the carbide bits but that is a fact on most small machines. If this was a multi 10s of thousand dollar machine I would expect it to plow through the harder stuff like butter. Since it is made for small shops and home workshops I expect it to do what it was designed to do.

I kind of get a chuckle out of folks who are buying these monster machines for pens. Kind of like those folks who buy a hummer to drive to the grocery store.

The metal lathe seems to have become a status symbol in much the same way the Hummer was. Nothing but colorful plumage with just as colorful justifications.

Real pen makers use tricked out metal lathes!
Cool people drive hummers to pick the kids up at soccer!

Do you really need 4th dimensional DRO to make a pen? Do you need shift on the fly uber variable speed with tachometer speedometer and gas gauge? No. Is it nice? I don't know but I can guarantee it is not necessary.

Maybe I don't take my pen making serious enough and don't see how the tricked out precision metal lathe makes a better pen. I have seen some very nice, worth every penny, pens on this site that were made on basic wood lathes. I have also seen some seriously boring precision made pens built on metal lathes.

I do understand GAS though and have given in to the pangs. Who really needs 13 cameras, 5 of which are the same format? No one. Recently I have been forced to look at those items I lusted for and got in a different light. I sure wasted some good money when what I had was more than capable of getting the job done.

 

[Gilrock]

If I was only going to make pens then the lathe I have is fine.

 

[IPD_Mr]

Put the drill chuck on the carriage and you have all the travel you need.

LittleMachineShop.com - QC 2MT Tool Holder, AXA

See Gil I told you that someone on here would have a solution to the tail travel. And it was Pete too! Of course I am a little confused. Pete should be attending to Marla's every whim so he should not have time to play on here.

 

[Gilrock]

...And you know everyone is always trying to keep up with the Jones'. Well I am a "Jones" so it's been tough to always stay ahead of the rest of you. :biggrin:

 

[Curly]

Nice link Pete. I adapted a chuck to my QCTP also It works great. If your going to move up just go right to the Pm 1236 and get it over with.

I went with a G4003G from Grizzly when I was lathe shopping 3 or 4 years ago so I am already there. No matter what you have you all ways look at what is out there even if it is just to know. :wink:

Pete

 

[Curly]

You're welcome.

See Gil I told you that someone on here would have a solution to the tail travel. And it was Pete too! Of course I am a little confused. Pete should be attending to Marla's every whim so he should not have time to play on here.

Heck Mike even a slave gets a few moments to themselves before being whipped back to work. :tongue: How are your lash marks these days? Healing well?

 

[bluwolf]

I have an older version of this.

I have had no desire to replace it. I've watched precision engine parts be made on it. Everything we needed to do with a metal lathe in the shop was able to be done on it. There are no bells and whistles but it gets the job done with very few parts to break down. The only thing I can't figure out how to do on it is taper. Supposedly it can be done, but I can't figure it out. .

If I'm looking at your machine right, you would cut a taper like most of the other lathes. On your compound slide that sits on top of the crosslide, it looks like you can see the protractor, it's the thing with the numbers on it at the base of the compound. You loosen the compound slide and set it at the angle you want to cut. Then you crank the compound slide back and forth without moving the crosslide. You can cut a taper as long as the travel on your compund.

Mike

 

[IPD_Mr]

See Gil I told you that someone on here would have a solution to the tail travel. And it was Pete too! Of course I am a little confused. Pete should be attending to Marla's every whim so he should not have time to play on here.

Heck Mike even a slave gets a few moments to themselves before being whipped back to work. :tongue: How are your lash marks these days? Healing well?

They are doing well Pete, I am trying a new kind of salve that dulls the pain to almost bearable.

 

[bluwolf]

Nice link Pete. I adapted a chuck to my QCTP also It works great. If your going to move up just go right to the Pm 1236 and get it over with.

I went with a G4003G from Grizzly when I was lathe shopping 3 or 4 years ago so I am already there. No matter what you have you all ways look at what is out there even if it is just to know. :wink:

Pete

What Pete said. I think my 12x36 is just the right size for pretty much anything I want to do. For the few projects that I might ever need to do, that are too big for it, I'll farm it out to machine shop.

Mike

 

[bluwolf]

See Gil I told you that someone on here would have a solution to the tail travel. And it was Pete too! Of course I am a little confused. Pete should be attending to Marla's every whim so he should not have time to play on here.

Heck Mike even a slave gets a few moments to themselves before being whipped back to work. :tongue: How are your lash marks these days? Healing well?

They are doing well Pete, I am trying a new kind of salve that dulls the pain to almost bearable.

If you'd just buy the Mrs. her own metal lathe like she wants you might not be having these problems:biggrin:

Mike

 

[Justturnin]

I have been wanting a metal lathe for some time and one day will go through this. The only thing I can offer, as I know squat, is the knowledge you are gaining by having to fine tune your own machine is priceless. Many buy a used machine already tuned and when an issue arises they know little to nothing about their machine and have no idea where to start to fix it. You will have intimate knowledge of your machine inside and out and when you do upgrade tuning will be much easier.

 

[BradG]

Another thing really bugging me is the 1.5" travel on the tailstock.

Actually when I have a chuck in the tail stock it is more like 1" travel. I would love to find away around this as well. Maybe Mike & Mike would have some good input.

Yes, I was very surprised when I learned the TS travel was so short on the 9x20. Even the 7x12 has 2 1/2" of travel. I don't have a good answer for that one. Maybe one of the other guys with a 9x20 knows something.

Mike, as far as your loss of travel with the drill chuck, when you have a live center in it, is the travel any better? My point being, sometimes the morse taper shafts are too long. They end up backing into the self ejector on the tailstock too soon. You can cure that by cutting a little of the morse taper shaft off. A die grinder with a thin cut-off blade works great for that. Same goes for the live center, but a little loss of travel with that is usually not a big problem, not like it is with the drill chuck.

Mike

I would say im envious at Mikes lathe... but im more excited when i see it as its the one i have my eye on :biggrin:

 

[BKelley]

Gil,

I've used a metal lathe off and on for some 60 years now. In my experience, your Jet 9x20 is a nice lathe. Lathes are kinda like wives. They do their best work after you get to know them and know just what pleases them most. Stay with your Jet learn what pleases it, get some experience on it. I think you will enjoy using it and maybe some day you can up grade to a nice South Bend 10" tool room lathe. Oh and by the way, never, never say bad things about your lathe when it can hear you, again just like wives they can get tempermental.

Ben

 

[BigShed]

I have a 9x20, but mine has EVS (electronic variable speed) out of the box.

It was the one "must have" on my wish list, in fact that was the reason I was originally going to buy a 7x14. Because of repeated shipping delays I started looking around for another lathe and came across my Steelmaster 9x20 EVS.

I haven't seen any other importer sell this same machine either in Oz or in the USA.

Any 9x20, or other size, lathe can be turned in to a n EVS lathe simply by replacing the single phase motor with a 3phase motor and drive it through a VFD. There is a lot of information on the internet about these devices, if you join the Yahoo 9x20 group there is also a lot.

 

[Gilrock]

Well I'm kinda liking my lathe quite a bit more this afternoon. Fresh off the boat from Australia my Diamond Tool Holder arrived and I seem to be getting better cuts than I have been with the indexable carbide bits. I also was cutting deeper than I normally do. It was nice to see a thin spiral peeling away from the bit.

 

[rherrell]

Just remember that a 9x20 is still a SMALL lathe, maybe not mini but small. Take small cuts with sharp tools and you'll be fine. When I turn steel on my SMALL 8" lathe I still take .005" cuts, just like I did on my old 7x14. To give you an example, when I make a 1" toolpost it takes me 50 passes to get from 1" to 1/2" for the threaded part. I move the DIAL .005" per cut which equals .010" in total. I can take heavier cuts but if I do I get alot of blue chips and smoke which means I'm generating too much heat...not a good thing.

One thing I will agree with you on is the VS, I wouldn't own a lathe without it. Like you mentioned, changing belts is a PITA.:biggrin:

 

[Gilrock]

Well that's one concept I don't understand. I don't see how the size of the lathe relates to the amount of heat generated in relation to the depth of a cut. It would seem like the same tool cutting a 0.025" cut would be the same amount of heat on two different size lathes. I watched the videos for the PM1127 and the PM1236 and I don't see how they are taking those 0.050" and larger cuts in steel with no cutting fluid and it doesn't appear to be getting too hot.

I don't know if all lathes are this way...but the problem with getting a good finish on mine is that the feed rate seems way too fast at the high RPMs. I read that for a good finish I should run high RPMs and take a light cut. Well the feed screw RPM on this lathe looks like its directly proportional to the spindle speed. So if I'm at 1000 RPM with a Level I feed setting and then double the spindle speed to 2000 RPM...it looks like my feed rate doubles as well which isn't helping me get a better finish. I would like a machine where my feed rate stayed the same when I increased my spindle speed. Am I missing something here?

 

[mredburn]

Yes you need a slower feed rate per revolution for a better finish if your tools are sharp and properly positioned. A small radius on the tip will give better results than a sharp point .


Im adding a link to the Sherline website that show vidios of different materials bieng cut and lists the cut depth the feedspeed and rpms etc
http://sherline.com/testcuts.htm Good information no matter which lathe your using

 

[rherrell]

It's all about rigidity, big lathes have more of it than small lathes. If I take too big of a bite the cutter will chatter and create more heat, you might not notice it but it happens.

As far as the feed rate, it stays the same in relation to your rpm's, or at least it does on my lathe. I keep mine at .005" per rev., that's the fastest feed I have, if I want to change it I change the pulleys on the leadscrew.

I have VS so I don't change belts for my rpm's like you but changing the spindle speed shouldn't effect your feed rate. Do you have a feed rate chart on yours? It should show which pulleys to change.

Well that's one concept I don't understand. I don't see how the size of the lathe relates to the amount of heat generated in relation to the depth of a cut. It would seem like the same tool cutting a 0.025" cut would be the same amount of heat on two different size lathes. I watched the videos for the PM1127 and the PM1236 and I don't see how they are taking those 0.050" and larger cuts in steel with no cutting fluid and it doesn't appear to be getting too hot.

I don't know if all lathes are this way...but the problem with getting a good finish on mine is that the feed rate seems way too fast at the high RPMs. I read that for a good finish I should run high RPMs and take a light cut. Well the feed screw RPM on this lathe looks like its directly proportional to the spindle speed. So if I'm at 1000 RPM with a Level I feed setting and then double the spindle speed to 2000 RPM...it looks like my feed rate doubles as well which isn't helping me get a better finish. I would like a machine where my feed rate stayed the same when I increased my spindle speed. Am I missing something here?

 

[Rich L]

Well that's one concept I don't understand. I don't see how the size of the lathe relates to the amount of heat generated in relation to the depth of a cut. It would seem like the same tool cutting a 0.025" cut would be the same amount of heat on two different size lathes. I watched the videos for the PM1127 and the PM1236 and I don't see how they are taking those 0.050" and larger cuts in steel with no cutting fluid and it doesn't appear to be getting too hot.

I don't know if all lathes are this way...but the problem with getting a good finish on mine is that the feed rate seems way too fast at the high RPMs. I read that for a good finish I should run high RPMs and take a light cut. Well the feed screw RPM on this lathe looks like its directly proportional to the spindle speed. So if I'm at 1000 RPM with a Level I feed setting and then double the spindle speed to 2000 RPM...it looks like my feed rate doubles as well which isn't helping me get a better finish. I would like a machine where my feed rate stayed the same when I increased my spindle speed. Am I missing something here?

Depending on the material, type of cutter (carbide, HSS)(sharp or honed)(type of chipbreaker), DOC and RPM the objective is to cut deep enough to make progress and fast enough for finish. Another primary objective with those parameters is to cut such that heat is transferred mostly to the chip instead of to the cutter. Remember rake? Check that and bit or insert sharpness. Check your tool height. Even with HSS and a sharp tool with zero or positive rake and on your lathe you should have no trouble cutting at least .010 (radially) DOC with a feed of say .002 - .003 per rev. What's the shape and lead angle of your cutter? A little spray with some coolant or WD40 will help a lot. If you're cutting blue chips with HSS something is probably wrong - dull cutter and misalignment. If you're using carbide then blue is OK but with your lathe you should back off a bit. You still need correct bit placement and a sharp or honed edge.

Check for sharp cutter!

I don't know the particulars of your lathe ( I know you have a 9 x 20 ) but typically feed is directly proportional to RPM due to the gear train selection (or belt sheave ratios). Unless you have a separate feed motor you're stuck with that relationship.

Cheers,
Rich