Do I buy a metal lathe for kitless pens

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Jontello

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I am trying to figure out what I need for making kitless pens. I am serious about it and willing to invest in the money for it. I was wondering why you would buy taps and dies (they cost a lot) vs buying a metal lathe that does threads? Would be better to invest in the metal lathe or is it better to invest in Taps and dies. I would love to get the wisdom of the people here.

Thanks in advance.

Jon


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eharri446

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I can see buying the metal lathe for the control that it gives you. However, most people that make kitless pens use mutiple start threads on their pens. To the best of my knowledge those would be extremely difficult to cut on a metal lathe. The standard single start threads could be easily cut, however, those are the taps and dies that relatively inexpensive to buy.

I may be wrong on this, however, there are many very experienced and talented members who can probably provide a better answer than this.
 

duncsuss

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It is incorrect to say that multi-start threading cannot be done on a metal lathe.

I know several people who have very quickly learned to cut threads, and make the transition from single-start to multi-start when they get the right guidance.

If I had space for yet another bench tool in my work area, I'd consider getting a metal lathe to do this myself.
 

RobS

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Metal lathe would give you greater precision with less time invested in skill
You can cut multi start threads on metal lathes with a standard threading tool but you have to set it up correctly
Taps and dies allow you to cut the same threads over and over in a matter of minutes and is relatively straight forward if you have a die holder.

With a wood lathe if you want multi start you will need taps and dies and a die and a tap holder

I've done 2 kitless on my jet 1221 vs and am saving up for a metal lathe.
 

More4dan

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I use taps and dies when using my metal lathe. It is easier and gives a better finish to the threads. Threading ID at small diameters is also a challenge on the lathe with tooling that will fit. I do use the threading capabilities of the metal lathe to make non-standard single thread taps for the fountain pen feeds.


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Dalecamino

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The argument that you don't need a metal lathe to make a kitless pen has been well documented on this forum. I won't argue the point. But I happen to be one of many who do use a metal lathe to make them. I have two sizes of die holders, and enjoy the uncomplicated process of cutting threads with taps and dies.

The metals lathe allows you more design options, if you're not too lazy (like I am) to add some modifications to your lathe. Skiprat, as well as others are awesome at using these things. My $.02
 

frank123

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Multi start isn't that difficult after you think about and understand what you are doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWjX14CoRC8

Essentially, you just advance the bit to whatever the number of starts is as a percentage of the TPI you are cutting so that it starts the second and later threads that distance closer making multiple thread cuts spaced evenly from one another.

You can also just make your own taps and dies, single or multi start, and avoid the setup for future threading.
 

magpens

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Jon, in my opinion, you will never be sorry that you own a metal-turning lathe.

As far as threading goes, your best approach is to buy the individual specialized taps and dies.

One reason is that kitless pens are better if you use triple start taps and dies for the cap to body junction ... that's the professional way ... it is extremely hard to cut triple start threads on the usual ( under $5,000 ) metal lathes
 

Mintman

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I agree with magpens! You can certainly make kitless on a wood lathe but I don't believe you would ever regret buying a metal lathe. I also use taps and dies on the metal lathe for the simplicity and time you get a quality product. I've also used my metal lathe to make bushings, mandrels and die holders. They are extremely versatile and accurate!


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thewishman

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Taps and dies work exactly the same way each time, no worries about setting the lathe up perfectly each time. Taps and dies are much easier to carry and store, AND at lest $1000 cheaper than a metal lathe with all of the extra tooling.
 

stuckinohio

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I did my first kitless pen on the wood lathe. I have done the rest on my metal lathe.

Your headstock and tailstock will have to aligned very well to do kitless. None of the three wood lathes I have are aligned well, and none of them have an adjustable tailstock. I don't know what lathe you have. The Nova 1624 and the DVR have adjustable tailstock. I'm looking to buy one this winter for that exact reason.

Of course, I want a second smaller metal lathe for the basement in the winter. You won't regret getting a metal lathe. I guarantee it.
 
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I enjoy the "puzzle" aspect and free form nature of making kitless pens on a wood lathe, that being said many of the tooling and techniques am using are more machinest in nature , and eventually may switch over or benefit from having both depending on nature of project, that being said a wood lathe is a lower cost entry to turning and in both scenarios the cost of the lathe is negligible in comparison to the cost of tooling, chucks, etc which is where the real expense kicks in


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TheGF3

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The only advantage I could see for buying a machinist lathe is if you plan to make perfectly smooth cylindrical pens and let the lathe make the pen for you. Or for being lazy/efficient about rounding square blanks. Beyond that, you can do everything else on a wood lathe just as well with a set of manual taps and dies for all the threaded connections.
 

Psychmike22

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I bought a little machine shop 5200 and I have to say that I really enjoy it. I am working on making TBC bushings for all the kits I use and have recently learned how to turn kitless on it, with the help of a member. I enjoy picking up an new skill set.


Mike Marroquin
 

More4dan

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The only advantage I could see for buying a machinist lathe is if you plan to make perfectly smooth cylindrical pens and let the lathe make the pen for you. Or for being lazy/efficient about rounding square blanks. Beyond that, you can do everything else on a wood lathe just as well with a set of manual taps and dies for all the threaded connections.


With some simple modifications the metal lathe can make complex curves as well. I was able to design, make, and install a pattern tracer in an afternoon on my mini metal lathe.

One can also add a tool rest and turn by hand like a wood lathe.

94e88548cdb4cd86cf8da69c0287c253.jpg


Danny




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PatrickR

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The only advantage I could see for buying a machinist lathe is if you plan to make perfectly smooth cylindrical pens and let the lathe make the pen for you. Or for being lazy/efficient about rounding square blanks. Beyond that, you can do everything else on a wood lathe just as well with a set of manual taps and dies for all the threaded connections.


With some simple modifications the metal lathe can make complex curves as well. I was able to design, make, and install a pattern tracer in an afternoon on my mini metal lathe.

One can also add a tool rest and turn by hand like a wood lathe.

94e88548cdb4cd86cf8da69c0287c253.jpg


Danny




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16d893246d936aa352c7ffebee8d7019.jpg

dffa84d6c4b88b981ed89c1cf19f0442.jpg



How do you follow the pattern?
 

TheGF3

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The only advantage I could see for buying a machinist lathe is if you plan to make perfectly smooth cylindrical pens and let the lathe make the pen for you. Or for being lazy/efficient about rounding square blanks. Beyond that, you can do everything else on a wood lathe just as well with a set of manual taps and dies for all the threaded connections.


With some simple modifications the metal lathe can make complex curves as well. I was able to design, make, and install a pattern tracer in an afternoon on my mini metal lathe.

One can also add a tool rest and turn by hand like a wood lathe.

94e88548cdb4cd86cf8da69c0287c253.jpg


Danny




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16d893246d936aa352c7ffebee8d7019.jpg

dffa84d6c4b88b981ed89c1cf19f0442.jpg

I'm certainly not dismissing that a metal lathe works for kitless pen turning, just stating in my opinion that it's an unnecessary upfront cost for someone starting out making kitless. A set of taps and dies and a steady hand work perfectly fine on a wood lathe. One can always upgrade later once they see a benefit to doing so, it's a lot harder to recover from expenses that could have been avoided.
 
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The only advantage I could see for buying a machinist lathe is if you plan to make perfectly smooth cylindrical pens and let the lathe make the pen for you. Or for being lazy/efficient about rounding square blanks. Beyond that, you can do everything else on a wood lathe just as well with a set of manual taps and dies for all the threaded connections.





With some simple modifications the metal lathe can make complex curves as well. I was able to design, make, and install a pattern tracer in an afternoon on my mini metal lathe.



One can also add a tool rest and turn by hand like a wood lathe.



94e88548cdb4cd86cf8da69c0287c253.jpg




Danny









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16d893246d936aa352c7ffebee8d7019.jpg


dffa84d6c4b88b981ed89c1cf19f0442.jpg



I'm certainly not dismissing that a metal lathe works for kitless pen turning, just stating in my opinion that it's an unnecessary upfront cost for someone starting out making kitless. A set of taps and dies and a steady hand work perfectly fine on a wood lathe. One can always upgrade later once they see a benefit to doing so, it's a lot harder to recover from expenses that could have been avoided.



Don't even need stead hands, place the tap in a drill chuck and hand tap from the tail stock,for dies, can get inexpensive round die holders ~$15 from a machinest supply and place in drill or collet chuck also in rail stock, and wala flawless tapping , you can also make a die holder from derlin or wood if so desire


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TheGF3

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The only advantage I could see for buying a machinist lathe is if you plan to make perfectly smooth cylindrical pens and let the lathe make the pen for you. Or for being lazy/efficient about rounding square blanks. Beyond that, you can do everything else on a wood lathe just as well with a set of manual taps and dies for all the threaded connections.





With some simple modifications the metal lathe can make complex curves as well. I was able to design, make, and install a pattern tracer in an afternoon on my mini metal lathe.



One can also add a tool rest and turn by hand like a wood lathe.



94e88548cdb4cd86cf8da69c0287c253.jpg




Danny









Sent from my iPhone using Penturners.org mobile app



16d893246d936aa352c7ffebee8d7019.jpg


dffa84d6c4b88b981ed89c1cf19f0442.jpg



I'm certainly not dismissing that a metal lathe works for kitless pen turning, just stating in my opinion that it's an unnecessary upfront cost for someone starting out making kitless. A set of taps and dies and a steady hand work perfectly fine on a wood lathe. One can always upgrade later once they see a benefit to doing so, it's a lot harder to recover from expenses that could have been avoided.



Don't even need stead hands, place the tap in a drill chuck and hand tap from the tail stock,for dies, can get inexpensive round die holders ~$15 from a machinest supply and place in drill or collet chuck also in rail stock, and wala flawless tapping , you can also make a die holder from derlin or wood if so desire


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You just described exactly how I cut all the threads on my kitless pens. 1" die holders and taps all get mounted into my drill chuck and I manually rotate the head stock to cut the work piece. I started with handheld die holders and quickly learned you need 3 hands to keep it all aligned, lol.
 

Curly

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Since triple taps and dies are going to run you at least $225+ a set minimum in your location that would go a long way to the purchase of a metal lathe but what you also have to factor in is how much a lathe costs in Italy and what is available. Also note that a metal lathe is only the starting point because all the extra tooling for it costs a lot more. Even the equivalent to a wood lathe collet chuck is more. You may spend a couple thousand on the lathe and still have to spend two or more thousand on a collet chuck, collets, cutting tool holders, internal and external single point threading tools, drill chucks, centres an a whole lot more especially in a country that has a culture that doesn't have a lot people practicing wood and metalworking as hobbies. In the long run a metal lathe is a great tool to have and it can do a lot. In the short term though you can do everything you need to do on your wood lathe with the investment of some extra tools like the triple taps and dies until you know for sure you want to continue making kiltless.
 

More4dan

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The only advantage I could see for buying a machinist lathe is if you plan to make perfectly smooth cylindrical pens and let the lathe make the pen for you. Or for being lazy/efficient about rounding square blanks. Beyond that, you can do everything else on a wood lathe just as well with a set of manual taps and dies for all the threaded connections.


With some simple modifications the metal lathe can make complex curves as well. I was able to design, make, and install a pattern tracer in an afternoon on my mini metal lathe.

One can also add a tool rest and turn by hand like a wood lathe.

94e88548cdb4cd86cf8da69c0287c253.jpg


Danny




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16d893246d936aa352c7ffebee8d7019.jpg

dffa84d6c4b88b981ed89c1cf19f0442.jpg



How do you follow the pattern?



I disconnect the threaded block from the cross slide allowing it to move freely. I then attach a spring to pull the cross slide to the pattern. I adjust the compound rest to 90 deg to the work and use it to advance the depth of cut.
651cc46a072561bdbb749e947c55e291.jpg



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Since triple taps and dies are going to run you at least $225+ a set minimum in your location that would go a long way to the purchase of a metal lathe but what you also have to factor in is how much a lathe costs in Italy and what is available. Also note that a metal lathe is only the starting point because all the extra tooling for it costs a lot more. Even the equivalent to a wood lathe collet chuck is more. You may spend a couple thousand on the lathe and still have to spend two or more thousand on a collet chuck, collets, cutting tool holders, internal and external single point threading tools, drill chucks, centres an a whole lot more especially in a country that has a culture that doesn't have a lot people practicing wood and metalworking as hobbies. In the long run a metal lathe is a great tool to have and it can do a lot. In the short term though you can do everything you need to do on your wood lathe with the investment of some extra tools like the triple taps and dies until you know for sure you want to continue making kiltless.



I bought a cheap er collet and set off eBay and works great even checked with dial indicator

Don't buy the wood craft collet sets are non standard collets hence what you get is what you get and can't use other sizes


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