Basic Lathe Recommendations

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Which of the following would you recommend, if any?


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    27

Russianwolf

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Since this is a hot topic and a debatable one that can go on for days and weeks, I thought I'd add a simple poll of 6 of the more available lathes under $2k so people can see which ones are more recommended. Now all the links are to Grizzly, but as many know nearly identical units are available from other places with different color schemes. So here's the line up from least expensive ($550) to the $2k limit.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/7-x-12-Mini-Metal-Lathe/G8688

http://www.grizzly.com/products/9-x-19-Bench-Lathe/G4000

http://www.grizzly.com/products/10-x-22-Bench-Top-Metal-Lathe/G0602

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Combo-Lathe-w-Milling-Attachment/G0516

http://www.grizzly.com/products/11-x-26-Bench-Lathe-w-Gearbox/G9972Z

http://www.grizzly.com/outlet/Combo-Lathe-Mill/G9729

So, let's discuss the pros and cons of these machines, possible other machines that meet our needs and see if we can find a "best beginners machine" recommendation that while not a perfect machine, will help people get started.
 
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Russianwolf

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may have found a 7/x12 Enco for $200 here locally. Trying to find out if they have all the tooling to go with it.

Any opinions on this version of the clone?
 

BRobbins629

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may have found a 7/x12 Enco for $200 here locally. Trying to find out if they have all the tooling to go with it.

Any opinions on this version of the clone?
Make sure its a 7 x 12 - on their site now, they only have a 7 x 10 which would be too short. If its in good condition, price is good as long as its a 7 x 12. Pass if 7 x 10. LMS has all the replacement parts if any needed. Just be sure the list is not too long.
 

Texatdurango

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I don't see this being a "hot topic" BUT......... I would like to say something which IS NOT AIMED AT ANYONE, it's just sharing a thought.

I bought my machine a few years ago based on what I could read on manufacturers web sites AND listening to recommendations of others here at the time I made a mistake.

Buying a lathe based on what is deemed popular or comes out on top in a poll IS NOT the best way to buy a lathe. Just because 80 people recommend size "A", brand "X", does not mean it will meet your needs.

In a perfect world, everytime someone asks.... "I want to buy a metal lathe, which one should I buy?" I would start out by asking......."What are you going to do with it?" before going any further.

If one could sit down and list a number of specific tasks he/she wanted to do, then their search for a lathe to meet those needs would be a lot easier and could easily weed out the machines that wouldn't work.

However, if the answer is... "I dunno, I just want one 'cause they're neat", then go with the popular machine and knock your socks off having fun with it! :)
 
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bluwolf

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George,

You said what I was thinking. Since you brought it up, why do you say you made a mistake, and what would you do differently now? I think the your answers might help others with their choice.
 
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When buying used where and what does one look for signs of wear? Also is there anything to look for if the lathe has is a sign to walk away no mater how good a deal it is?
 

Paul in OKC

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When buying used where and what does one look for signs of wear? Also is there anything to look for if the lathe has is a sign to walk away no mater how good a deal it is?

Hard to say with these small lathes. When I go looking at bigger machines, I first look at the ways. These little lathes most likely do not get that heavy of ue to put much wear on them, but if one has used much cast iron material on it, it gets under the slides and wears on them. Other area is the screw on the cross slide and compound, how much 'slack' there is when you change directions. There will be some any way, but if there is say, half a turn or more, the nut is wore out. Can be replaced, but keep that in mind. You can also move the chuck by hand back and forth and listen and feel how much slack there might be in that gear as well.
 

Russianwolf

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may have found a 7/x12 Enco for $200 here locally. Trying to find out if they have all the tooling to go with it.

Any opinions on this version of the clone?
Make sure its a 7 x 12 - on their site now, they only have a 7 x 10 which would be too short. If its in good condition, price is good as long as its a 7 x 12. Pass if 7 x 10. LMS has all the replacement parts if any needed. Just be sure the list is not too long.

Yep, It's a 7x10
 

BigShed

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I agree with George's comments, even though I voted for the 9x19.

I would not go for any of the Lathe/Mill combos, too restrictive.

The problem I have with the bigger lathes is their, generally, lower top speed.

On the 7x choose the longest between centres you can get, preferably the 14.

If you go for the 9x, my choice, try and find one with a camlock tailstock. EVS would be nice, mine has, but you also add this later via a 3phase motor and a VFD.
 
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Texatdurango

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George,

You said what I was thinking. Since you brought it up, why do you say you made a mistake, and what would you do differently now? I think the your answers might help others with their choice.

Well, this was a few years ago, about the time the multi-start threads were all the rage on the forum and I had visions in my head that if I got a metal lathe I was going to start doing all my threading on it so I chose a model that had the most thread pitches available. No one was around to tell me that everytime I wanted to change a thread pitch I had to open the left door, pull a gear, install another gear before proceeding. Now that's not the end of the world BUT..... it's not the best scenario either. Had I done a little more research I would have chosen a lathe similar to the Grizzly G602 10x22 which is basically the same as the 9 x 19 with slight dimension differences But... you change thread pitches by moving a nice clean shiny dial on the front of the machine! THAT's the way to go and that's why I selected the G0602 in the poll. It's only $220 more than the 9 x 19 and I think the differences are worth it. I understand the price is a bit more than many are thinking about when they look at the $400 and $500 machines that's why everyone needs to do some real hard thinking, asking themselves EXACTLY what they want a metal lathe for.

As Justin (timebandit) mentioned here or in another thread..."You DON"T HAVE TO HAVE A METAL LATHE TO MAKE NICE PENS!" To which I agree 100% but would add...... BUT, it sure makes making them a lot more fun! :biggrin:
 

Texatdurango

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Fred, you have peeked my interests imensly!

Since most of these 9x19 machines are basically the same, I wonder if you told me your brand or even the part number for your tailstock with the camlock, I might be able to find it around here and order it for my lathe.

I agree with George's comments, even though I voted for the 9x19.

I would not go for any of the Lathe/Mill combos, too restrictive.

The problem I have with the bigger lathes is their, generally, lower top speed.

On the 7x choose the longest between centres you can get, preferably the 14.

If you go for the 9x, my choice, try and find one with a camlock tailstock. EVS would be nice, mine has, but you also add this later via a 3phase motor and a VFD.
 

Texatdurango

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I just noticed that 4 people voted that they wouldn't recommend any of the choices in the poll. I'm curious to find out what they WOULD recommend, perhaps they know something we don't know.

Come on guys, join in the conversation and share your opinions, they are just as valued as anyone elses.
 

BigShed

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Fred, you have peeked my interests imensly!

Since most of these 9x19 machines are basically the same, I wonder if you told me your brand or even the part number for your tailstock with the camlock, I might be able to find it around here and order it for my lathe.

I agree with George's comments, even though I voted for the 9x19.

I would not go for any of the Lathe/Mill combos, too restrictive.

The problem I have with the bigger lathes is their, generally, lower top speed.

On the 7x choose the longest between centres you can get, preferably the 14.

If you go for the 9x, my choice, try and find one with a camlock tailstock. EVS would be nice, mine has, but you also add this later via a 3phase motor and a VFD.

George, I thought I had posted pics of my metal lathe before, I'm pretty sure there are some in my photos here on IAP.

Edit: Here it is

http://www.penturners.org/forum/showthread.php?t=36895

Bit limited to what I can do at present, sitting here in the Flinders Ranges on my mobile WiFi about 600km from the nearest city that deserves the name!

Here is a link to where I bought my lathe

http://www.assetplant.com/epages/shop.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/shop/Products/12-0103

I have heaps of pics on my "home" forum, you may want to have alook there:

http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/13444-big-shed/albums/metal-work/

I have pics there of most of the things I have done to the poor thing, as well as my X2 mill (now sold) and my new DM45 mill, also my DRO installation.

If you were so inclined you could do a search of the Woodwork Forum and see most of those projects described by me in boring detail:)

Let me know if I can help you further, but my internet access access will be patchy for a couple of weeks.

I still think the 10x22 is too low in the high speed, nor does it have a camlock tailstock.

(Edit: Sorry mistook motor speed (1725RPM) for top speed, top speed is 2400RPM which would be OK. Some real gaps in the speed range though eg 720-1200, I would do a lot of work around the 800-1100 mark. Also minimum speed of 150 would be a handful for parting off and certainly for threading the bigger threads.)

You could always make your own mod, there are several described on the internet, Steve Bedair I think and GadgetBuilder (7x)

Don't whether you have seen this link re the 10x22?

http://www.hossmachine.info/10x22_lathe.html
 
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BigShed

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Can't vote.:redface: I don't know anything about any of these.

Man that would reduce the number of voters in your Presidential elections:biggrin:

All jokes aside, why didn't you vote for the 7x? You've got one, give the newbies your opinions as a relative newcomer, I'm sure they would value you input.
 
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bluwolf

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I just noticed that 4 people voted that they wouldn't recommend any of the choices in the poll. I'm curious to find out what they WOULD recommend, perhaps they know something we don't know.

Come on guys, join in the conversation and share your opinions, they are just as valued as anyone elses.

I voted for none of them. Looking at the choices again I probably could have chosen one or two of them. Unfortunately, since I don't have any first hand experience with them it didn't seem right to vote that way. But if you want an opinion, I'll give you mine.

I started with a Micromark 7x12. I outgrew it. So I started researching bigger ones...for over 2 years. Long, boring story short, I bought a 12x36. Right there kinda takes me out of the context of this poll.

I bought mine from a company called Precision Matthews. They also have some interesting choices in the 10" and 11" range. Here's a link if anyone is interested. http://www.machinetoolonline.com/NewLathes11under.html

You'll notice that shipping is free so take that in to consideration when comparing prices. Also notice that they don't sell a 7x12. That market is completely saturated with enough choices already.

If you're considering the 7x12 but have a few more bucks and a little more room to work with, you might want to consider an 8x14.
http://www.lathemaster.com/LATHEMASTER8x14Lathe.htm

Harbor Freight sells a version of this lathe also. Even in HF configuration this lathe is considered to be far superior to the 7x12 in every way. But they've just recently raised the price so it's not nearly as attractive now when compared to the Lathemaster version.

These are just a few alternatives to what normally gets discussed. Like I said, I've researched this stuff to death. It's actually been a hobby in and of itself for quite awhile.

Something else that's been mentioned but can't be stressed enough is the tooling to go with these machines. Few if any of these machines come with enough tooling to get you up and running.
 

bluwolf

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George,

No one was around to tell me that everytime I wanted to change a thread pitch I had to open the left door, pull a gear, install another gear before proceeding. Now that's not the end of the world BUT..... it's not the best scenario either. Had I done a little more research I would have chosen a lathe similar to the Grizzly G602 10x22 which is basically the same as the 9 x 19 with slight dimension differences But... you change thread pitches by moving a nice clean shiny dial on the front of the machine! THAT's the way to go and that's why I selected the G0602 in the poll.

This caught my eye because in the catalog in the standard equipment section it says it comes with a set of change gears. So I checked the website, the standard equipment section says nothing about change gears. I thought, hmm, maybe they've updated the lathe. But the catalog and website pictures look the same. So I checked the manual online. On page 34 and 35 it talks about setting up metric and standard threads, including changing gears.

I could be wrong, but if I were considering this lathe because not changing gears was a major draw I would call Grizzly and confirm this before plunking down the money for it.
 

Russianwolf

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I think all of them have some change gears, but some don't require you to make changes every time. Looking at them, even the really big $14k lathes have some change gears.


I tell you, if I had a way to get it into the shop, I'd be going after a G4003G but it'd require a backhoe to make a new door for the basement. :biggrin:

I'd love to get a CNC rig too, but can't find a preassembled unit that isn't $3k+ and that's for a very small one. (I may talk to a local shop about those ideas though).
 

bluwolf

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I think all of them have some change gears, but some don't require you to make changes every time. Looking at them, even the really big $14k lathes have some change gears.


I tell you, if I had a way to get it into the shop, I'd be going after a G4003G but it'd require a backhoe to make a new door for the basement. :biggrin:

I'd love to get a CNC rig too, but can't find a preassembled unit that isn't $3k+ and that's for a very small one. (I may talk to a local shop about those ideas though).

That's what I wasn't sure about. The online manual was a little vague as to when you had to do it. I've got a PM1236, Precision Matthews version of the G4003G. It did come with some change gears but the list of what you can cut without changing gears is very good.

After living with my 12x36 for a couple years now I'd suggest looking into that backhoe:biggrin: You won't be sorry.
 

OKLAHOMAN

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I just called Grizzly and spoke to Justin in the tech dept. The G0602 is NOT a dial for threading machine the only dial is to go from metric to AS threads and then change gears, I asked specifically if any threading can be done without changing gears, he said no you have to change gears....looks like I'm back to square one. as that was the #1 reason for me purchasing this machine over and 8x14 or 9x19....
I think all of them have some change gears, but some don't require you to make changes every time. Looking at them, even the really big $14k lathes have some change gears.


I tell you, if I had a way to get it into the shop, I'd be going after a G4003G but it'd require a backhoe to make a new door for the basement. :biggrin:

I'd love to get a CNC rig too, but can't find a preassembled unit that isn't $3k+ and that's for a very small one. (I may talk to a local shop about those ideas though).

That's what I wasn't sure about. The online manual was a little vague as to when you had to do it. I've got a PM1236, Precision Matthews version of the G4003G. It did come with some change gears but the list of what you can cut without changing gears is very good.

After living with my 12x36 for a couple years now I'd suggest looking into that backhoe:biggrin: You won't be sorry.
 
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Texatdurango

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I just called Grizzly and spoke to Justin in the tech dept. The G0602 is NOT a dial for threading machine the only dial is to go from metric to AS threads and then change gears, I asked specifically if any threading can be done without changing gears, he said no you have to change gears....looks like I'm back to square one. as that was the #1 reason for me purchasing this machine over and 8x14 or 9x19

THIS is what is great about all the participation in these threads! Had Roy gone out and bought this lathe because of what me and others said, I would feel terrible when he got it home and found that he STILL had to manually change gears!

Roy, that being the case I don't see where the value for the extra $220 is then! A little extra capacity here and there wouldn't be worth it over the 9 x 19 machine.

Bluwolf....... Good catch!
 

bluwolf

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Roy, that being the case I don't see where the value for the extra $220 is then! A little extra capacity here and there wouldn't be worth it over the 9 x 19 machine.

Bluwolf....... Good catch!

Along those same lines, this is why I suggested the PM1030V to Roy when he was looking at the Grizzly 10x22.

http://www.machinetoolonline.com/PM1030.html

It's $400 more but it has a few features that you mentioned that you really wanted if you were to do it over again. It has a camlock tailstock which the Grizzly doesn't and it has power crossfeed. It also has variable speed (the Grizz only has 6 speeds that change with belts) and 8 more inches between centers.
 

Curly

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I tell you, if I had a way to get it into the shop, I'd be going after a G4003G but it'd require a backhoe to make a new door for the basement. :biggrin:

I have a G4003G and while a heavy beast you probably could get it down a set of stairs if they were wide enough and a straight run down. The two cast iron pedestals are on a pallet and a couple guys can take them down by hand. The lathe and accessories are on a pallet so all the smaller goodies can be taken down by yourself along with the drip pans and sheet metal stuff. The tailstock is easy to take off, the motor could be pulled off and the gap bed part could also be removed, reducing the weight even more. That leaves the bed, headstock, and cross slide, and that would be as far as I would go. Then it is levers, dollies, pipes, rope, come-a-longs etc along with some obedient help and careful planning. You might need to temporarily shore up the stairs and put a ramp on it. Lots of people have taken bigger lathes and milling machines into basements. If you can easily take freezers and washing machines down then the lathe can go too. Not something for the Gypsies that like to move every few years though. :wink:

 

Russianwolf

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I tell you, if I had a way to get it into the shop, I'd be going after a G4003G but it'd require a backhoe to make a new door for the basement. :biggrin:

I have a G4003G and while a heavy beast you probably could get it down a set of stairs if they were wide enough and a straight run down. The two cast iron pedestals are on a pallet and a couple guys can take them down by hand. The lathe and accessories are on a pallet so all the smaller goodies can be taken down by yourself along with the drip pans and sheet metal stuff. The tailstock is easy to take off, the motor could be pulled off and the gap bed part could also be removed, reducing the weight even more. That leaves the bed, headstock, and cross slide, and that would be as far as I would go. Then it is levers, dollies, pipes, rope, come-a-longs etc along with some obedient help and careful planning. You might need to temporarily shore up the stairs and put a ramp on it. Lots of people have taken bigger lathes and milling machines into basements. If you can easily take freezers and washing machines down then the lathe can go too. Not something for the Gypsies that like to move every few years though. :wink:

largest thing in my basement is a waterheater. :cool:

I'm sure I could do it. But it wouldn't be easy. My basement access is a Bilco Door and a set of wood steps. I could take them out and lower it into the pit, but with my luck something would go wrong. (it'd likely be easier/safer to confiscate some space in the garage). But for now, I'll find a smaller option. :wink:
 

Texatdurango

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What is the advantage of threading with the lathe as opposed to using a tap or die?

Speaking for myself since I only make a pen now and then, I would prefer using taps and dies for the smaller sizes such as used in making pens.

I bought my lathe with the threading capability high on the priority list but when reality sank in, grabbing a tap is a lot quicker and easier than changing pitch gears on the lathe then cutting the threads. By the time I got the lathe set up to cut a thread, I'd almost be finished with a pen! :biggrin:

On the flipside, the spindle on my metal lathe has 39mm x 4mm threads, NOT a size you are going down to ACE Hardware and pick up a tap for! I wanted to use My Barracuda and Nova chucks as well as my Beall collet chuck on the metal lathe so I made an adapter where I cut the 39 x 4 threads on the metal lathe. Had I ordered the specialized tap, who knows how much it would have cost.

Another situation is the cost of the multi-start tap and die sets many have purchased. If one were watching ones dollars, learning to be proficient cutting triple start threads on the lathe would pay off in the long run.

How was that for a yes/no answer! :biggrin:
 

dgscott

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I'm using a Harbor Freight 9x20. Unfortunately, it meets all my needs. I say unfortunately because in my heart of hearts I'd love both a reason and the resource to buy the South Bend 10k. I've just added a surprisingly inexpensive DRO which increases it's functionality. I do my threading with taps and dies just because it's easier, but I have to admit that lathe cut threads tend to be prettier, IMHO.

I started with a 7x10 (mistake), upgraded it to a 7x14 with the LMS upgrade kit. Make it more functional, but it's far from ideal in terms of weight, precision and power.

Moving it into the shop was challenging, but I hired a 20 year old kid to do some yard work and called out, "Hey, as long as you're here...." If I had access to an engine hoist and didn't have to deal with stairs, I would likely have gone with a 12x. But then I wouldn't even have an excuse for dreaming about the SB 10k.

There are often good used South Bends, Logans, and Atlases on eBay and reasonable prices if you can find the time and gas to pick one up (size and weight make shipping prohibitive). Old Craftsman/Atlas 6x18s have a loyal following and folks do some extraordinary work on them despite the need to change gears for threading. Of course, you wouldn't agree to buy until you had seen and gauged the ways.

I do very little on my Jet 1014 anymore -- everything is turned on the HF. Glad I made the change.

My $0.02.
Doug
 
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