Jeer Terrible Service from WoodTurningz

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I ordered 14 pen blanks from WoodTurningz for pens that had been ordered by customers. All sold in the $80 to $120 price range. These were time sensitive orders.

I received a package from them with my name and address, but with the incorrect order. After contacting WoodTurningz, my wife and I got the impression that they really couldn't have cared any less about the mistake. As it turns out, they switched my order with another pen turner's. They asked us to mail the package to the correct pen turner, as the other pen turner would do the same. In addition to general hassle of fixing WoodTurningz own mistake, I do not live close to a post office. Driving there takes away some of the already limited time that I have. Regardless, I complied.

In the meantime, I lost some orders as a direct result of this mistake by Woodturningz. Had they simply expedited me the correct order immediately upon realizing their mistake (and had me ship the incorrect order back to them), I might have been able to salvage some of those sales. Not only did I take a financial hit (loss of sales), but my reputation for prompt, reliable service also took a hit.

As a result of the mistake itself and how WoodTurningz handled it, I decided that I would simply go elsewhere to purchase supplies. As a business owner myself, I know that customer feedback is critical to improving a company. In that spirit, I wrote an email to Ryan (the owner) to explain the situation and why I would be going elsewhere for my purchases.

Instead of receiving a response from Ryan, he delegated that to a Sales Manager and told him to offer me a $20 credit for future purchases. Personally, I do not appreciate the fact that Ryan delegated the apparently mundane task of responding to me to someone else.

As far as the $20 credit goes, that does not even begin to cover the financial hit that I took from lost sales, much less the reputation hit that I took. I understand that they cannot (and probably should not) credit me for the exact amount of the damages. What bothers me about this is that they offered this $20 credit as if it were somehow a solution to fix the problem. This is either a terrible misunderstanding of the situation and the losses that I incurred as a result of their mistake or an ineffective, if not desperate, move to try to keep me as a customer.

If keeping me as a customer was a goal, they needed to focus on fixing the actual problem instead of trying to lure me back with a temporary, insufficient patch to the problem. While the $20 credit might have been a nice gesture combined with a sincere concern for fixing the problem itself, it actually served as an insult when combined with the lackadaisical attitude in regards to fixing the problem.

I included all of this in my response to the Sales Manager, and asked that it actually be forwarded to Ryan. What happened next was absolutely appalling. Ryan, himself, finally replied. His response was full of excuses and non-answers in regards to the issues that I experienced. In the end, he told me that future orders from me would be refused - I was no longer welcome to purchase from them.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't going to make any more purchases from them in the first place - I made that apparent early on in my conversations with these people. But the fact that they were so blatantly rude and exhibiting so little interest in actually fixing their issues is simply astonishing.

If anyone is interested in seeing the exact conversation - word for word - let me know. I'll be more than happy to forward it to you.

From here on out, I'll continue to make my purchases from Exotic Blanks. Ed and Dawn are fantastic people, have always offered me fantastic service (no matter how big the order has been), have asked me for feedback on how to improve some issues that they had (they not only kindly listened, but they actually fixed them!) and they get their orders right. They ship quickly, have a wide selection of products, and their prices are pretty good, too. To be entirely honest, I should have simply ordered from them in the first place.
 
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Scruffy

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That is sad to hear. I have had many transactions with WoodTurnningz, but nothing compared to that. I have always appreciated the service and the interface. I am sorry to hear that a valued supplier has been involved with such an incident.

Let's hope you recover well and they acceptably service customers in the future.
 
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I didn't realize how long that was until I posted it. Here's the short version:

TLDR: Ordered from WoodTurningz. They messed up the order, and didn't really seem to care. Complained and told the owner why I was going elsewhere with my future purchases. Was given the run around. Owner eventually responds and tells me that I'm not longer able to order from them. Wasn't going to order from them any more in the first place, but their actions are appalling enough for me to share with the IAP community. I'll be sticking with Exotic Blanks from now on - Ed and Dawn are fantastic.
 
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Indeed. Nobody should have to deal with service like this. I, too, have ordered from them before with no issues, but after this experience, I won't ever do it again.
 
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William,

In a community such as this, knowledge about suppliers is very important. Before I make a purchase from anywhere, I always search this site for reviews and experiences from that company. If you do not research the companies that you purchase from, that's fine. I, personally, do. From what I can tell in the forums, many others do the same.

Warren
 

gimpy

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So, every one has there good day's and bad day's. I would chalk this one up as a bad day.........

In my opinion, woodturningz tried to make it right, you just won't allow that to happen..

This is the reason I DO NOT take orders, if you are interested in purchasing some thing, this is what is available.......

On another note, you should have been up front with your customer and tell them that you did not have that style pen available, but would do your best to get it, then if you got it, then notify the customer that it is a GOOD DAY..........

To me, this is was your mistake.........

Have a GOOD DAY
 

Cmiles1985

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I appreciate the sharing of your experience with Woodturningz. As I am new to turning, I also enjoy reading of other folks' experiences with vendors. Especially when it comes to a hobby such as turning where there are limited numbers of vendors. I just received my second order from Woodturningz on Friday, and for the most part, I have been pleased with my products and the timely fashion in which I receive them. My only complaint, if you want to even consider it a complaint, was the quality of some of the blanks in the "grab bag" I ordered. But, I did buy it knowing that there would be a few "practice pieces."

Good luck with restoration of your name and reputation, and thanks again for taking the time to share your experience.
 

maxwell_smart007

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Please remember that this is the Cheers and Jeers forum - not just the 'free advertising for good experiences' forum.

People have every right to post what they perceive to be bad experiences, along with the good experiences - that's the reason this area of the forum exists; both perspectives are valuable.

Otherwise, you might as well just read the 'customer testimonial' sections of websites

Andrew
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gimpy:

You're making a lot of assumptions here. First and foremost, everyone most certainly does have good and bad days. The decisions that we make on whether to purchase from a supplier or not are largely based on just that. If there are a bunch of good days, then perhaps they're a good source. If there's a bunch of bad days, then perhaps they're a bad source. More important than even that, though, is how they handle the bad days. I do not believe that WoodTurningz handled this well.

Second, in order for WoodTurningz to "make it right" they would have to make up for all of the monetary and reputational losses that I experienced as a result of their mistake. This just isn't possible. As a result, there is no feasible way to "make it right." The damage has been done. If they had simply made an effort to learn from their mistakes, the situation might be a little bit different. I still would not be likely to purchase from them any more, but I might not have been inclined to make this post sharing my experiences. Instead, they were terribly rude and couldn't have cared less about the fact that they messed up - and that, I believe, deserves to be shared.

Third. The biggest assumption that you made is that my customers were not aware that I did not have the particular pen that they wanted on hand. Each and every one of my customers knows from the very beginning whether or not I have a particular pen on hand. The customers in this situation did know, but they needed their orders by a specific date (as stated early on in my original post). Under ordinary circumstances, these deadlines would be easily met. When I informed them that the deadlines could not be met, they simply went elsewhere. Please, do not make assumptions about how I interact with my customers.

Cmiles1985:

Thanks and good luck turning! It's a fantastic hobby/business to be involved in. I'm sure you already know by now, but if you ever have any questions about absolutely anything post them here on IAP. The people here are generally fantastic, and know a LOT about the industry.
 

Ed McDonnell

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In a situation like this I would expect the vendor to (1) tell me to keep the initial shipment of the wrong blanks (or to arrange pickup) and (2) immediately ship me the correct materials with no further delays.

If a vendor asked me to drive to the post office to forward a botched shipment and then to wait and hope that the person that got my stuff would forward it to me, my response would be:

"Your stuff is on the front porch if you want to send someone to pick it up and I am calling my credit card company to dispute your charge". That would be the end of my relationship with that vendor and I would order from one of the hiqh quality vendors that support this forum (actually I would have done that in the first place).

I would never expect to be compensated for lost sales or lost reputation. Shipments get delayed / lost. It happens. It's, unfortunately, a normal part of business.

I do think the vendors initial response was inadequate and I would not have wasted any more time communicating with the vendor. But that's me.


Ed
 

kovalcik

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I have had only good experiences from Woodturningz, so I am surprised that something like this happened. I cannot understand why they would ask you and the other customer to mail the packages to each other. That just does not seem right. Maybe they thought that would be the quickest way to solve the issue. Was the order especially large or costly? Was there an "out of stock" problem that made sending the boxes to each other more expediant? Can you give some more details on the timing? How many days from placing the order to receiving the wrong order to receiveing the correct order? I would be interested in learning more of the details since I have done a fair amount of business with them.

IMO the correct response would have been to overnight you the correct order, have you send the wrong order back to them after sending you a prepaid shipping label, and then offer a future discount for your inconvenience. I am curious why this did not happen.
 

tjseagrove

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My customer will always come first and when the packages were going to be mailed to each other, I would have paid for overnight delivery of a new order and asked the other be sent back and a refund issued. Extra on shipping but would save my sale.

You lost a customer, he lost a customer, nobody won.
 
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BSea

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1st off, I've had nothing but good experiences from woodturningz. However, I agree with tjseagrove about the solution. Things do happen. And time sensitive orders are just asking for trouble. Seems like Murphy works overtime to make sure something goes wrong when we have the least amount of time.

I always let the customer know in advance of the problems I might encounter getting a rush order done. Some things are out of our control, and if my customer knows this in advance, they would have the option to have a backup plan should something happen. This is hindsight of course, and not really fair to your situation. But we all learn by experience. Unfortunately, not all that experience is good.
 

gimpy

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1st off, I've had nothing but good experiences from woodturningz. However, I agree with tjseagrove about the solution. Things do happen. And time sensitive orders are just asking for trouble. Seems like Murphy works overtime to make sure something goes wrong when we have the least amount of time.

I always let the customer know in advance of the problems I might encounter getting a rush order done. Some things are out of our control, and if my customer knows this in advance, they would have the option to have a backup plan should something happen. This is hindsight of course, and not really fair to your situation. But we all learn by experience. Unfortunately, not all that experience is good.

This is what I am talking about,

Thanks BSea, this is what I was trying to say, but my fingers typed something different
 

Waluy

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This really surprises me as I have had nothing but great service from Woodturningz, in fact they get almost all of my business that doesn't go to our IAP vendors. The only reason I go to anyone of the other "big" ones is if Woodturningz is out of stock and I need it fast. Is it possible that this took place while they were moving and they saw this as the most timely fix?
 
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So many responses since I last checked!

parklandturner:
Interesting approach. And just to clarify, I didn't expect compensation either. What I expected was for them to quickly take care of the issue in a professional manner, and learn from their mistakes.

HamTurns:
From my understanding, WoodTurningz is not an IAP vendor. Choosing a non-IAP vendor was probably my first mistake.

kovalcik:
I'm not at home right now so I don't have all of the dates and such in front of me (it was long enough to lose some sales, though, and that's too long for me). I do remember that I ordered 10 Maker's Mark blanks, 2 Tuilpwood blanks, 2 Camelthorn blanks, and a pen press - all of which continue to be available on their website. I'm not quite sure what the other gentleman ordered, though.

tjseagrove:
You're absolutely right. Two businesses with lost customers - no winners.

BSea (and gimpy):
I've made way more of these types of sales than I would ever begin to try to count. I've only ever had two issues like this, and each time the supplier has overnighted me the correct order - sales saved. It's also worth noting that both of them let me keep the incorrect order, but that's just an added bonus for the inconvenience.

I've already mentioned that my customers know that they are buying a yet-to-be-made pen, but there are several other things that I make sure that they know, too. I let them know about all of the risks involved. This includes everything from mistakes on the part of the supplier (like the situation with WoodTurningz) to mistakes on my part in making the pen - and everything in between. The issue is not that my customers did not know about the risks; the issue is that they had to go elsewhere and I lost some sales. I don't like losing sales.

Waluy:
I'm sure that it's possible (though not likely), but that still does not excuse their rudeness or lackadaisical attitude towards the situation.
 
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Waluy

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Well I know they were moving from around Nov 22 and just posted the move was finished and finally unpacking on Dec 3. But I would agree any rudeness was unnecessary. It would be kind of interesting to see the whole conversation as maybe a misunderstanding on one side or the other is what led to something being interpreted as rudeness that was not meant that way originally.
 

NewLondon88

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I personally don't like company bashing nor do I care to read about it. We all have our ups and downs but must we put it in such a great forum that most of us enjoy visiting? We have enough negatives in this world, wood turning is my out from the real world... Peace to all.

You should visit Steebar and spend lots of money.
 

its_virgil

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Being an IAP vendor does not guarantee error free orders. Are our vendors all nice guys? YES! Do our IAP vendors have quality merchandise? YES! Are IAP vendors' prices competitive? YES! Should we support them because they support us? YES! Are they 100% error free? I doubt it.

I think your first mistake was taking time sensitive orders not having the needed materials on hand. I do not like time sensitive orders? I will not take a time sensitive order if I must have materials need for them shipped in to get them done. That is a recipe for disaster.

I have actually had no problems with any vendors…IAP or not. Well, I must take that back. I will never for any reason order from Steebar (again). Will I someday have a problem with an order? Probably yes. But, it will not be for materials/supplies needed for a time sensitive order. I just don't need that stress. I do hope all works out for you in the end.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

HamTurns:
From my understanding, WoodTurningz is not an IAP vendor. Choosing a non-IAP vendor was probably my first mistake.
 

Karl_99

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It is unfortunate that you have had such a bad experience with Woodturningz. My dealings with them have always been very positive. Based on the information you presented, it seems unusual that they would not have expedited the correct order to you. It is not surprising that they may have given up on you since your going in position was to no longer do business with them. That left little room for any suitable remedy.
Good luck.
 
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maxwell_smart007:
I must have missed that, then. I didn't see them listed on the Vendor Catalogs page or under Vendor Forums.

its_virgil:
I understand that being an IAP vendor doesn't guarantee good service. That would be a blatant logical fallacy. My statement on that was more based on experience with those vendors (Exotic Blanks, specifically).

Time sensitive orders are not inherently bad. Nor do they induce any sort of stress. Passing up on a sale because it has a deadline is, in my opinion, ridiculous. As I mentioned before, I've done so many of these time sensitive orders that I've completely lost count. I've never had an issue with even one. Why is it a mistake to accept such orders? Is it so outlandish to expect a vendor to accurately do their job, and if they do not, to fix their mistake adequately? As long as one of those two things happens, the sale is completed on time and life is good. Woodturningz not only managed to fail the first criteria, but they failed the second one, as well.

Wood Butcher:
Feel free to believe what you want. That's part of the beauty of forums. If you feel that you should continue to buy from WoodTurningz, that's entirely up to you. My post is simply to share my own experience with them. If nobody shared their experiences with vendors, then we'd never know which ones are good/bad until we had that good/bad experience for ourselves. The entire point of this thread is to share experiences so that we can learn from the experiences of others.

Karl_99:
I, too, had decent experiences with them. Decent because they never shipped any faster than anyone else (except PSI) and their blanks were simply average. They weren't bad. I didn't have a particularly bad experience until I actually had to interact with them. Over the phone, they had an entirely lackadaisical attitude about the situation - they didn't really care that they made a mistake. This lackadaisical attitude is further exemplified by their "solution" to the problem - having us mail each other our packages. This only made the problem worse. Would YOU continue to purchase from a company that handled your order like that? Not me.

As someone with experience in both small business and big corporations, I have learned that there is incredible value in customer feedback - both good and bad. Simply as a courtesy, I emailed Ryan (the owner) to explain exactly why they were losing me as a customer. Leaving no room for some sort of further "remedy" provides no grounds whatsoever for how he spoke to me. None. I have never seen, nor heard of, a business (big or small) treat a customer like that. Quite frankly, it IS surprising.
 

truckfixr

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First off, based on every experience I've ever had with Ryan, this is totally out of character for him and his fellow employees. Everyone there that I have ever dealt with have bent over backwards to be helpful. From your description of what transpired they handled the situation badly. Being privy to only one side of the story, and having had only positive experiences with him myself, I prefer to suspend judgement.
 

Scruffy

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I have never had a negative experience with Woodturningz. I have found their service to be very good. Their personnel have always bent over backwards to help and, in the only case of problems, they have remedied any problems. Ryan has always been great to deal with.

It is sad that one of members has had any unpleasant experiences, but Woodturnningz will remain on my list of preferred vendors.
 

Edgar

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It's unfortunate that you had this unpleasant experience, and it's not my place to try to explain what happened or why. I just want to say to anyone who might be inclined to shy away from Woodturningz because of this one incident that I have never had any problems with them. They have always shipped my orders promptly and accurately and they have willingly & efficiently handled several special requests for me. I have placed a number of orders with them and will continue to do so.
 

maxwell_smart007

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Not all IAP members choose to sell in the classifieds - and not all IAP vendors are small, one person operations.

Whether or not a company buys a webpage in the vendor forums, or an ad on a regular basis, most companies have people working for them (or even the owners) registered on the IAP - you just might not know their screen name! :)
 

raar25

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Warren, thankyou for you posting your experience. It is the customers testimony like yours that helps us be better consumers. It is a shame that vendors still dont realize the impact of every negative transaction like this one. Anyone who states people have good days and bad days and that is the excuse for not helping a customer doesnt understand as the customer this is not our problem. I pay money and I expect what I paid for period end of story. Oh and if someone doesnt like negative comments on vendors than they dont have to read them.

Thanks,
Ray
 

fritzmccorkle

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Hello, this is Fritz from WoodTurningz. I can assure you that our company was built on and remains successful due to customer service and support. We make every effort to supply people in a fast and friendly manner. To me, as a company I don't feel it's appropriate to speak about customers in open forum. Those of you who know me and have worked with me over the years will hopefully be able to make informed decisions. Have a great day. Fritz
 

gimpy

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Hello, this is Fritz from WoodTurningz. I can assure you that our company was built on and remains successful due to customer service and support. We make every effort to supply people in a fast and friendly manner. To me, as a company I don't feel it's appropriate to speak about customers in open forum. Those of you who know me and have worked with me over the years will hopefully be able to make informed decisions. Have a great day. Fritz



WAY TO GO FRITZ, YOU AND YOUR COMPANY ARE ONE OF THE GREATEST AROUND.........THANK YOU FOR ALL YOU DO !!!!!!!
 

JP61

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Regardless, I complied.

Did you receive your package from the other costumer?

This was handled the wrong way imo on their end for whatever reason(s), but, stuff happens. On the other hand, you should have given yourself more time to make and deliver your products to your customers. I don't think it would have killed them to wait a few extra days for their items, if they new there was a mistake in receiving your supplies. We're talking pens here, not heart transplants. How many orders have you placed with this business prior to this incident and how many times were you dissatisfied?
 

bobleibo

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Hello, this is Fritz from WoodTurningz. I can assure you that our company was built on and remains successful due to customer service and support. We make every effort to supply people in a fast and friendly manner. To me, as a company I don't feel it's appropriate to speak about customers in open forum. Those of you who know me and have worked with me over the years will hopefully be able to make informed decisions. Have a great day. Fritz

I 100% agree.......
Posting a simple "informative experience" about a company is one thing, but I have always been baffled by the objective of public posts that seem to be an attempt at destroying the credibility of a business, especially the extremely long-winded ones.
When I have a bad experience with anyone or any company, I take it up with them.
Cheers
 
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tbfoto

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So if I read this correctly. You took orders for pens you didn't already have in stock with the promise to make them and have them to the customer made with materials you had not even ordered yet? You then are complaining that the vendor is the reason you missed the deadline on an order? What would be your excuse if the vendor was simply out of stock of said items? Would that still be the vendors fault for you missing a sale?
I don't care who the vendor is......sometimes mistakes happen. They can only do so much to make it right.
Man up and admit to your customers that you screwed up and should not have taken an order for a product until you had the supplies to make them.
Woodturningz is a solid company. They made a mistake.....they will try to make it right with you but they are not accountable for your mistakes as well.
 
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Alright, lots of responses since I last checked.

truckfixr:
It may or may not be out of character for Ryan and his employees, but the fact that this happened remains. The point of a Cheers/Jeers forum is to share experiences. I've shared mine. You're welcome to interpret it as you will.

Scruffy:
Some people will have good experiences. Any company - no matter how bad - will be able to please at least some subset of their customer base. See my comment above on Cheers/Jeers.

edohmann:
You're more than welcome to do so. See my comments above on Cheers/Jeers.

maxwell_smart007:
I'm sure. Quite frankly, I anticipated such. I still hold out hope that WoodTurningz will learn from their mistakes. It won't affect my decision to shop elsewhere, but perhaps it'll lead to better experiences for others - nobody deserves such treatment.

raar25:
You're one of the few who actually understand the point of a Cheers/Jeers forum. It also helps to know that there are people out that that don't just automatically assume that I'm some evil man who has it out for WoodTurningz. THANK YOU!

fritzmccorkle:
Your company might have been built on customer service and support, but it failed - miserably - in this aspect with my order. Others deserve to know precisely how you handled this situation. Thus, WoodTurningz earned a Jeer. IAP is not the only place that I will share my experience, either. What others do with that knowledge is their choice. Yes, it most certainly would be inappropriate for anyone from WoodTurningz to talk about a customer - regardless of who it is. That was simply stating the obvious.

gimpy:
I'm not quite sure what your point here is, but this isn't some sort of game here. Nobody wins or loses.

JP61:
Yes, I did receive the package from the other customer - days after I should have received it in the first place. I agree with you that it was handled incorrectly. I do not agree with your assessment of customers being able to wait. Sometimes people have deadlines that things need to be bought by. Sometimes that's a birthday, other times the person receiving the gift is leaving by a certain day, and still other times it's presented as an award at a conference or ceremony. Deadlines are a natural part of life. No, pens are not heart transplants, but that doesn't mean that a deadline is inappropriate. Customers - regardless of whose customers they are - are free to decide if they need an item by a certain time or not. My customers chose to go elsewhere because I couldn't provide the pens by the specific day that they needed them - and that's their choice. I lost some sales as a result.

bobleibo:
Excuse me? Destroying the credibility of a business? You say this as if my goal is to destroy WoodTurningz for all eternity. This is a Cheers/Jeers forum. The entire point of it is to share experiences. This is precisely what I have done.

It should also be noted that I DID take it up with them. That doesn't exclude my right to share with my experience with others. The mods/creators of IAP seem to agree here, given that they created the Cheers/Jeers forum in the first place.

tbfoto:
I did not screw up, nor did I make any mistake in this process. I will not repeat what I've already written in this thread - go read some of my previous responses (I'm pretty sure that I've responded to absolutely everyone). You clearly do not understand business - from any perspective. To address what hasn't been addressed already: If a vendor is out of stock of a given item - then it should be listed as such on their website. Otherwise, a quick communication from said vendor stating that they're out of stock would work, too. That leaves time to order from someone else. To answer your question, no - that would not be the vendor's fault.

To address your last sentence: They had the opportunity to fix the issue to the best of their ability. They didn't. To restate my previous point, I made no mistake in this situation (other than choosing WoodTurningz in the first place). Many good businesses accept orders for items yet to be made. To suggest that that's a bad business model is simply absurd, and not an idea that I'm even willing to entertain.
 

beck3906

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I ordered 14 pen blanks from WoodTurningz for pens that had been ordered by customers. All sold in the $80 to $120 price range.

You ordered 14 blanks where each was at least $80 and as much as $120? Were these one-of-a-kind blanks?

Maybe I need to look back through the Woodturningz site. I may be missing something here.
 
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maxwell_smart007

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middle of nowhere in the great, white North
Now that everyone's had ample opportunity to have their say, and we've heard from both the original poster, the company, and many others - I think it's fair to call this topic well-covered.

I'm not going to lock the post - but please let's not get into an endless back-and-forth discussion here - it's all been said already! :)

Andrew
assistant mod
 
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