Shame on Ex. Blanks

Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad
Status
Not open for further replies.

philipff

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
598
Location
Williamsburg, VA
Yesterday I asked a simple question; does your product, XXX, fit a commercial pen. My intent was to buy several of the XXX if they did fit. Well, I got a slap in the head from the EX. B. person and was told do not bother us as we only do Custom Made Pens. Wow, who needs that kind of arrogance!! NOT me. I take my business where it is wanted P.
 
Signed-In Members Don't See This Ad

jttheclockman

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
19,135
Location
NJ, USA.
Yesterday I asked a simple question; does your product, XXX, fit a commercial pen. My intent was to buy several of the XXX if they did fit. Well, I got a slap in the head from the EX. B. person and was told do not bother us as we only do Custom Made Pens. Wow, who needs that kind of arrogance!! NOT me. I take my business where it is wanted P.

This is probably going to need some splainin Lucy:biggrin:
 

mmyshrall

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
219
Location
Spokane, WA
Yesterday I asked a simple question; does your product, XXX, fit a commercial pen. My intent was to buy several of the XXX if they did fit. Well, I got a slap in the head from the EX. B. person and was told do not bother us as we only do Custom Made Pens. Wow, who needs that kind of arrogance!! NOT me. I take my business where it is wanted P.

Wow, this just seems to be so uncharacteristic of Dawn and/or Ed...
 

brownsfn2

Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2011
Messages
1,574
Location
Plain City, OH
Are you really talking about Exotic Blanks? Maybe you should spell it out since we all know for sure that Exotic Blanks does not only do custom made pens. Anyone looking at their site can see that from the get go.

Also if this is really a a negative review it should be in the cheers and jeers section right?

I think that you should make sure people know who you are talking about though. To put Ex. B. in your description does not help and this situation is really not characteristic of Exotic Blanks, their site, or the personality of the people that own it.
 

snyiper

Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2009
Messages
1,601
Location
St Inigoes, MD
I'm thinking that something is not being fully disclosed and we are not getting the complete story especially if it involves Ed and Dawn. I have know them to bend over backwards for no good reason what so ever they are very good people and very well respected..... Yea I'm tossing the BS flag as well.....
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
24,527
Location
Racine, WI, USA.
NO BS!!

The gentleman sent this:
Do these converters fit all commercial pens? Also, if I were to purchase a set of parts to make my own custom FP, would you suggest a Feeder/Nib combo (size6), etc? I have an ample supply of exotic woods and want to make a personal FPen.


To me the question was so broad as to be impossible to answer, for two reasons, first I cannot possibly know what EVERY commercial fountain pen uses. Fountain pen nibs recently are not fitting handmade pens that used to fit fine. So, I DON"T KNOW!!!

Then, he wants to make ONE pen from wood. I read this to say he has never made a pen, but would like me to "walk him through" making one, kitless. In that case, he is very likely to fail and blame me for not giving him good enough instructions.

So, my answer follows:
Hi Philip!


Hand made pens are not a "make one" type hobby. Generally, you will need several different dies and taps, and several practice attempts before you are successful.


To answer your specific question on converters, we do not know the "insides" of commercial pens. ExoticBlanks is a source for hand made pen enthusiasts.


Sorry I can't be more helpful!!


Ed

penturning consultant

I would answer the same again. I don't know everything and I am not going to research EVERY commercial pen. Ask specific questions and I may be able to help. This was NOT specific enough to be much help.
 

Harpazo

Member
Joined
May 8, 2014
Messages
137
Location
Central Ohio
It seems quite clear from the OP subject that the poster wanted to publicly shame his target. I don't think it is appropriate to publicly attempt to shame anyone. I'll review the TOS just because it's important to understand them well in an open forum such as IAP. Let's get on with making pens. Just my 2 cents.
 
Last edited:

stonepecker

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
4,382
Location
central Minnesota
Seems to me that the OP wanted everything explained to do one pen.
He also didn't seem to interested in the fact that we don't use commerical pen parts in making our pens. (The real nice ones)

As a business person I would have replied the say way that ED did. His reply sounded respectful to me. Of course, doing business by e-mail and phone are two different things.

I take that the OP didn't seem to like the reply.......BUT, that was no slap in the face. Ed stated the fact that he doen't know everything. And to give that kind of information to someone that is to lazy to find it out themselves isn't why Ed is here.
We all help eachother.......Ed, more that anyone else here, is a great source of information.

My opinion.......An apology is owed to Ed from the opening poster.
The OP should also have some limits put on him and what he posts. This posting was totally uncall for.
 
Last edited:

jsolie

Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2013
Messages
2,100
Location
Sunny Murrieta, CA
It's so hard to determine tone and intent via text-based messaging systems. I'm sure if this were conducted via voice, things would have been different. I don't think the OP necessarily needs to be barred from posting-- a better tact would have been for him to post his question in the Penturning forum where many minds can work on the issue, and his intents and capabilities can be drawn out.
 

plantman

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
3,437
Location
Green Bay, Wi
Being in the Wisconsin chapter of the penturner's, and talking with ED many times over the past years face to face, I have never known him or Dawn to be rude to anyone or not willing to share any and all information they have. EVER !!
To phillip; If you want general information, ask the general members of this site !! Someone here has been there and done that. You will get many different methods and answers to the same question. Be exact in what information you are looking for. Jim S
 

magier412

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
219
Location
Seattle, WA
I would suggest to the OP that that really wasn't a simple question at all. I'm thinking that perhaps they are new to the hobby and probably don't understand how "un-simple" their question was - HOWEVER - it's NEVER ok to try to shame or embarrass people for politely telling you that they can't answer your question.

I'd appreciate it if the OP would apologize not only to Ed and Dawn, but to the community as well, since we all do our best to help one another out here. Being kind and helpful (and sometimes giving kind criticism as well to help members learn and grow) is why we are here.

When someone is truly wronged, we do want to hear about it of course, but this was far from that and really should have been handled privately if there were hurt feelings OP.

Short of any apology, I'd suggest that the Admins just delete this. It's not fair to Ed to have this floating around...and frankly, it's annoying to me to see someone try to shame a good person - whether they do so from honest ignorance or something less honorable - in public.

Not cool at all.

Just my opinion, but then again, I feel kinda strongly about it...bad form OP...and just not the way we treat each other here.
 

elkhorn

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
1,199
Location
Utah
My two cents worth: I have to agree with Kay. The only difference is even if an apology is given (which IMHO it should), this post should be deleted. In addition, I've dealt with Ed numerous times by phone for help, and he has always been a gentleman.

Rudeness was when I first started woodturning and I called a woodturner that made turquoise inlaid bowls and asked how that was done. He told me that it was his trade secret and that I should never have contacted him. I joined a local woodturning club and when I asked the same question, I got "No, problem! It's really simple - let me show you how."

To me that is how the IAP really works. If you have a question, EVERYONE is always ready to help, sometimes with a little humor thrown in. We are an online family.
 

low_48

Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
2,175
Location
Peoria, IL, USA.
It looks to me, that this is the direction that forums and human nature are going with all the information sharing. Why human nature is going to this less than civil discussions is beyond my pay grade, but I've seen it a lot. I think we better get used to it!
 

Mike Powell

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2013
Messages
551
Location
League City, Tx 77573
Personally Ed and Dawn have been great. I have only called once, and being new to the hobby he answered the best he could. I say that because I didnt really know what I was talking about, and didnt know how to explain it any better. I went away frustrated, but not at Exotic Blanks in no way or form. I have sent many people that direction when they were looking for certain things, and Exotic and Smitty are usually my first place to go for supplies.

They will continue to get my business.
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
24,527
Location
Racine, WI, USA.
I am a strong advocate of free speech!!

Please allow ANYONE to be critical of me or my business practices. They MAY be correct!!

When I awoke and posted this, this morning---it was in response to a Private Message I received alerting me to the thread. I had just gotten out of bed and had a rough day (physical work) planned, so I did not have time to "plan strategically". I cut and pasted and replied to the PM sender. My reply was: "I hope the IAP community will believe that what I did was reasonable".

It appears that many of you do believe this and I am grateful!!

I am fine with the OP's post---he has a right to ask for a public explanation. He uses his name as his screen name, so he is not trying to remain anonymous. Two men have a differing opinion of what was written. Stuff happens.

I DO AGREE that it would be interesting to post his email as a thread and see what replies we get-----

Why not give that a try, Philip???

Thanks to all who responded,
Ed
 

plantman

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
3,437
Location
Green Bay, Wi
I am a strong advocate of free speech!!

Please allow ANYONE to be critical of me or my business practices. They MAY be correct!!

When I awoke and posted this, this morning---it was in response to a Private Message I received alerting me to the thread. I had just gotten out of bed and had a rough day (physical work) planned, so I did not have time to "plan strategically". I cut and pasted and replied to the PM sender. My reply was: "I hope the IAP community will believe that what I did was reasonable".

It appears that many of you do believe this and I am grateful!!

I am fine with the OP's post---he has a right to ask for a public explanation. He uses his name as his screen name, so he is not trying to remain anonymous. Two men have a differing opinion of what was written. Stuff happens.

I DO AGREE that it would be interesting to post his email as a thread and see what replies we get-----

Why not give that a try, Philip???

Thanks to all who responded,
Ed
Due to my personal connection with ED, I too would like to see this thread removed, but ED is correct in stateing that everyone has a right to free speach and their outlook on how things transpired in their exchange. Our site must remain open to all, and if something does not seem correct, others will come to the defence of that statement or interpratation. Social Media, is at best, a poor way of communicating one's true feelings or meanings !! You have no idea of what someone on the receiving end will take from your written word. Take the word "no" for instance. Am I replying to a yes or no question with a simple one word answer?? Am I saying no with a questioning answer as to ask if the statement was correct ?? Am I harshly saying no to a statement that is vastly incorrect ?? It all depends on the outlook of both the sender and receiver, and unless you are standing across from one another you have no real clue. End of sermon. Peace to all !! Jim S
 
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
819
Location
Philla., Pa.
Looks like a lot of mistakes were made, by Phillip, Ed, as well as some of the IAP members in this thread. All of it comes down to misunderstandings/assumptions.

1)Phillip could have been much clearer in his email, as there's a lot of room for interpretation there.

2)Ed assumed Phillip was a newbie (IAP history says otherwise), and ran with it, instead of getting a little clarification first.

3)Phillip was too quick to read Ed's response as a brush off, instead of what it was, a response born out of misunderstanding his original email.

4)As is all too often the case with Jeers threads, the popular member response is to defend their beloved vender, and point out the many ways the OP is wrong. It's easy to see why Ed thought the guy was a newbie from the email, but anyone reading this thread can see that he's been a member here for 5 1/2 years. After a quick check (mere seconds), looks like he's been making pens for at least as far back as 2010. With that info so readily available, he's still being derided as a lazy newbie. This treatment is far worse than the misunderstanding between Phillip and Ed. Much worse.
 
Last edited:

stonepecker

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
4,382
Location
central Minnesota
In my opinion.

NOBODY has the 'right to bad mouth' anyone here in the IAP. The opening poster fired the first shot. There are just to many of us here that know that the owners of Exotic Blanks have NEVER BEEN RUDE TO ANYONE.

You can say my treatment of Phillip was far worse....... And we have the right to disagree. BUT, I will stand up for what I know is the truth.
Ed is a gentleman when it comes to giving out information and helping everyone.
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
24,527
Location
Racine, WI, USA.
Looks like a lot of mistakes were made, by Phillip, Ed, as well as some of the IAP members in this thread. All of it comes down to misunderstandings/assumptions.

1)Phillip could have been much clearer in his email, as there's a lot of room for interpretation there.

2)Ed assumed Phillip was a newbie (IAP history says otherwise), and ran with it, instead of getting a little clarification first. This came in my ExoticBlanks email. There are dozens there each day---I don't do "background checks"--I answer the question as it was posed. If you ask ANY question with ALL, NEVER, or ALWAYS in it, my response is likely to be "NO". Very few things are universal. "ALL commercial pens" do NOT use the same nib, nor would they ALL use the same converter. But that is obvious to anyone who knows anything about pens.

3)Phillip was too quick to read Ed's response as a brush off, instead of what it was, a response born out of misunderstanding his original email.
My response was absolutely accurate. As I attempt to be---had he said he was a pen maker and wanted to make a pen, then asked those questions, my answer would have been different. When you write me an email asking for information, tell me your background. Otherwise, I have no idea what you will understand.

4)As is all too often the case with Jeers threads, the popular member response is to defend their beloved vender, and point out the many ways the OP is wrong. It's easy to see why Ed thought the guy was a newbie from the email, but anyone reading this thread can see that he's been a member here for 5 1/2 years. After a quick check (mere seconds), looks like he's been making pens for at least as far back as 2010. With that info so readily available, he's still being derided as a lazy newbie. This treatment is far worse than the misunderstanding between Phillip and Ed. Much worse.

I believe the moral of the story is, if you are going to "jeer" or "publicly humiliate" a vendor, or any member, you should think SEVERAL times about how your position will "play out" when the actual words are read by all. I defend Philip's right to say what he wishes---I defend YOUR right to say what YOU wish. But, if you choose to attack someone, think carefully about your grounds.

I would assume you too would publish the truth if someone posts, "Shame on YOU!" Bad way to start a conversation, unless it is with your 2 year old child.


(red meant only to be clear which words are mine, as opposed to your original post--)
 
Last edited:

robertkulp

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
286
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
Two more cents... While I certainly don't like to see a good man thrown under the bus, especially when there isn't a valid reason for it, there could be some value to leaving this thread alive.

Yes, it does start out by bashing Ed. But, look at the posts following the first one. Almost everyone has chimed in and has been heaping praise on Ed, Dawn, & EB by the boat load. These posts, not the first, show how they treat us and how much they are appreciated.

Granted, there are some lessons to be learned here. Personally, I feel that 1) we need to have a little thicker skin. 2) If someone has offended you, go directly to them and try to straighten it out. Any sort of public disclosure of the problem must be only as a last resort.

I'll close out by giving another "Thank you" to Ed, Dawn, and Exotic Blanks.
 

Tclem76

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2013
Messages
61
Location
Mississippi
I have recently started using exotic blanks and the main reason I have called and spoke to Ed several times ( knowing he is a busy man ) and I have always been treated with respect and he has always answer my questions.
 

plantman

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
3,437
Location
Green Bay, Wi
It's trivial BS like this that makes me stay away from the forums.

Donnie; What if I called you on the phone and asked you some general questions?? You may or may not have the answers I am looking for, and you don't know me from a load of hay. If I take a little to much of your time it may get under your skin a little and your answers may change in tone and length. Now suppose after talking to you, I post a thread saying that Donnie K is rude, uncareing, a bad father, poor husband, and cheats on his taxes. (I am sure that non of these are true) , but to other people that don't know you and only read this one statement about you, it can be quite damageing to your name and livelyhood. Would you still consider this to be "trivial BS" if it were your name involved ?? It's to bad that you stay away from the forums for this reason, as you are mssing some very interesting outlooks on life and how missleading the typed words of others can be. Everything is important to someone and, maybe, not so much to others. Free Speach is not only the right to say what you want (within reason), to read what you want, believe what you want, but to express those feelings without fear of retribution. I agree with you in the fact that there are a certain amount of trivial subjects that are beat to death on this and any other site, but at least we are communicating with other people and expressing our ideas. Jim S
 

maxwell_smart007

Lead Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
6,710
Location
middle of nowhere in the great, white North
The point of cheers and jeers is to give everyone a venue to express their experiences with vendors - both positive and negative. Jeers are meant to be a last resort, after dealing with the vendor directly.

In this case, the negative review has been overwhelmingly turned into a positive review by the outpouring of support for Ed and Dawn - to the point that I think this very strongly benefits Exotics rather than harming them; removing it just because many disagree with the OP's opinion would be counter intuitive for both sides. Saying that it hurts Exotics because it is negative ignores the three pages of support for Exotics that follow the first post.

The original poster was able to state his case, and Ed was able to clearly justify his response. I see no point/benefit in removing the thread.

The Cheers and Jeers forum is only useful if people can post their own opinions, be they positive or negative - it's a venue to show others good places to shop, AND to give an area to resolve problems - otherwise, it would lose the point of it existing.

Andrew
assistant moderator
 

magier412

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
219
Location
Seattle, WA
I totally agree with free speech. And I totally agree that we need to be able to talk freely (positively and negatively) in order to have good exchange of information. But, that information needs to at least be a good faith effort at truthfulness and honest dialogue. This didn't feel that way IMHO.

Free speech is great. Making personal unfounded accusations doesn't fall under free speech though - it's called libel (when it's written, slander when it's spoken). You just can't say anything you want about anyone just because you are angry or upset. And certainly not without some modicum of caution and respect. There are repercussions. And this community - being what it is - didn't believe the accusations, so the harm is lessened to an extent...but still...people need to be aware and thoughtful in their communication. Especially in writing.

I don't believe that the OP intended libel. I think he was annoyed and felt disrespected - which I am sure was not Ed's intention either - and he lashed out.

The problem is, the internet is forever, and it's really hard to un-ring that bell when it's been done SO publicly. That is the reason I thought it should be deleted. It was mostly in consideration of the OP, more than to protect or "save" Ed. Ed doesn't need protecting - he is fairly well known here (obviously) and most people that have been around awhile would question what was said - but the reputation of the OP is at stake more than anything, and he should have the right to ask that the thread is deleted. That's all.

Always better to think twice before clicking that send key...saves a lot of time and embarrassment in the long run.

Just sayin'
 
Last edited:

thrustmonkey

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
113
Location
Illinois
Everybody forgot to mention the most important thing here.............Dawn gives us candy!

Name any other vendor that thinks enough of us to give us candy, or a freebee. EB cares about their customers and the pen making community, and they prove it day after day.

I just wish I wasn't broke so I could order more from EB and get more candy!

Ross
 

tbroye

Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2007
Messages
1,851
Location
Sacramento, CA, USA.
No Freebie Yippies for Phillip. It would be nice if Phillip could or would join us and respond to this so we could get a little more insight to his thinking. Or it could just blow into an ugly thread.
 

ed4copies

Local Chapter Manager
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
Messages
24,527
Location
Racine, WI, USA.
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f211/my-previous-rant-129324/

Philip posted this thread, a couple days ago.


As to erasing threads, the best way I can think of to keep people from "hasty negative posting" is to be certain the posts WILL remain on file. Each of us has a history on IAP. Mine is nearly 10 years old---wanna know more about me, search. You will find all the positive contributions AND ANY DUMB____ statements I have made!! BOTH are part of history and should remain available to the membership.

EVERY time each of us posts, we tell the membership a little more about ourselves. It would be nice to "erase the blemishes", but it would not paint a true picture.

IAP owes it to each member to let each person say what they wish (within the "decency standards" established). But there is no reason for the IAP to "unring the bell" by deleting comments that someone thinks should be deleted.

Think before you type. Step away from the computer when you are irritated.

Every comment you make today will be weighed in judging the comments you make tomorrow----we each mold our own "internet image", complete with warts!!
 
Last edited:

philipff

Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
598
Location
Williamsburg, VA
oh, I love the way everyone rushed to defend EB!! In point of fact, I did send a very polite inquiry which, when transmitted, omitted the key question. As a result EB chose a harsh response and that was endorsed by a few dozen faithful folks, including Jeff. When He brought the transmission error to my attention I quickly apoligized but that seems to be lost in the ether as well. So, for the sake of clarity; I apologize again and again and again and again for the technical error that resulted in all of you getting your feathers up in the air !! And now, EB can take their turn, should they chose. P.
 

stonepecker

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
4,382
Location
central Minnesota
OMG.

If your apology is for "omitting a key question".....then you have missed the point of all of the replies you recieved from the membership here.
And in that case.......nothing we say will explain the mistake you made when you started this posting. I really just have to feel sorry for you.

"Shake it off........just shake it off"
 

Smitty37

Passed Away Mar 29, 2018
In Memoriam
Joined
Nov 23, 2009
Messages
12,823
Location
Milford, Delaware 19963
Ed's a big boy....

http://www.penturners.org/forum/f211/my-previous-rant-129324/

Philip posted this thread, a couple days ago.


As to erasing threads, the best way I can think of to keep people from "hasty negative posting" is to be certain the posts WILL remain on file. Each of us has a history on IAP. Mine is nearly 10 years old---wanna know more about me, search. You will find all the positive contributions AND ANY DUMB____ statements I have made!! BOTH are part of history and should remain available to the membership.

EVERY time each of us posts, we tell the membership a little more about ourselves. It would be nice to "erase the blemishes", but it would not paint a true picture.

IAP owes it to each member to let each person say what they wish (within the "decency standards" established). But there is no reason for the IAP to "unring the bell" by deleting comments that someone thinks should be deleted.

Think before you type. Step away from the computer when you are irritated.

Every comment you make today will be weighed in judging the comments you make tomorrow----we each mold our own "internet image", complete with warts!!
Guys and Gals, Ed and Dawn are capable adults, honest in their dealings, and in my opinion need no defense.

How many of you even took the OP serious? I didn't. I know better and so do most of you.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom