preventing 'Jeers'

[maxwell_smart007]

I don't know if this is truly within the 'scope' of this area, and I leave it up to Neil whether to delete this or not...It's not directed at any one person or any thread - just a musing.

I just wanted to remind people to exhaust every option before leaving a jeer....those are very public, and very hurtful to the businesses that receive a Jeer...

Many of the 'jeers' seem to end in a resolved situation, and I wonder if they couldn't have been resolved via email or telephone calls to the superiors at that company in the first place, and avoided that "jeer" - in my mind, a Jeer should only result if the company is unwilling to right a clearly wrong situation, or unresponsive.

Remember - if you're not satisfied, talk to someone higher until you are. If you're belligerent, don't expect them to be kind to you in return..Be polite, know what it is you want done, and don't expect something for nothing - rules to live by.

Just a few thoughts to help resolve situations before they have to become Jeers...

 

[dgerwin11]

You forgot something very important. Be realistic in your expectations. If a company says it will ship in 4-7 days after receipt of order, I have no valid beef if they don't ship it tomorrow. Familiarize yourself with their policies. If you don't agree with them, shop elsewhere.

 

[ed4copies]

It's actually kind of a funny sign of the times.

We email (instant) an order and expect that the company will start on it immediately (at 2 AM, local time). Then, we expect the USPS to deliver in milliseconds, so, by the time we awaken the order has arrived!!

I find this amusing from two perspectives:
1) I remember sending orders by mail, with a check, then waiting for delivery. Two weeks was RAPID delivery!!!
2) I'm amazed at how often the vendor is praised!!! Why? Cause USPS DID get it there immediately----I have gained a lot of respect for USPS in the last couple years and hundreds of packages.

Last, I have some sympathy for the large vendors. They ship HUNDREDS of boxes each day, but during the holidays their workload is increased. I'm guessing some are 500% of a "normal" day. There is NO WAY to prepare for that, economically.

So, I wish you all a Merry Christmas--and I hope all of your presents arrive in time!!!

Ed
(member, not the vendor)

 

[Justturnin]

I 100% agree. This response was much longer but I will leave it at that. 100% agreement.

 

[bitshird]

I have to tell you we are just a small two man operation, and I've been going home at night the past two weeks about ready to pull my hair out. 99.998% of our customers are very reasonable but when you get that 1 out of a couple hundred that you can't satisfy. Man hang on to you hats. I can not imagine what it's been like at PSI, CSUSA, Beartooth Woods, any of the big dealers, I sure as heck sympathize them, and understand. We did the free shipping and Not sure I'll do it again next year.

 

[Papo]

This my thought on this and only my opinion so please let it be my opinion...
I don't think that the "jeer and cheer" section on this forum should exist.
We are getting hurt as a forum community by the inputs of certain individuals,
and by some of the companies that participate in the IAP give aways.If I was a company and someone trashes me, then why should I participate in helping that forum or anything else for that matter.I know that we have freedom of speech,but
think about it.I love this forum and don't want to see it hurt.

 

[SCR0LL3R]

Why don't we just call it the cheer forum then :/...

My post was the reason the cheer and jeer section got shut down for a few weeks. I jeered about CSUSA and most thought my reason was unworthy of a jeer. I did try to resolve the issue and the head of customer service told me that it was my fault so that's when I posted here.

I wouldn't think that people see Jeer:"So and So" and think "Oh I'm not shopping there!" I would hope they at least read the original post and decide for themselves if it was something that concerns them or not.

 

[SCR0LL3R]

If I was a company and someone trashes me, then why should I participate in helping that forum or anything else for that matter

Because it's cost effective advertising..?

 

[OldGrumpy]

It's actually kind of a funny sign of the times.


Last, I have some sympathy for the large vendors. They ship HUNDREDS of boxes each day, but during the holidays their workload is increased. I'm guessing some are 500% of a "normal" day. There is NO WAY to prepare for that, economically.

So, I wish you all a Merry Christmas--and I hope all of your presents arrive in time!!!

Ed
(member, not the vendor)

Ed this reminds me of my days with USPS. There we advertised 98% on time, accurate delivery. What that failed to say was that wtih their volume that meant thousands of letters missent or delayed every day.

 

[joefyffe]

Uh, maybe that's why some upper end businesses, in other enterprises, hire part time seasonal help! What a novel idea! I didn't mean it to sound as though I was referring to PSI as an upper end business.

 

[wiset1]

Big Buisness Takes A Bite!

Wow...Big business seems to have an influence on the IAP. I had to pull out my wallet and check that it said "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on my money to verify where I was!

Hey...IAP moderators, if you don't want to hear what your members have to say then DON'T offer a Cheer and Jeer section. Or just delete the threads that don't work in your favor...it already happened to me once today so why not force feed your members what you want them to see and hear, or who to buy from?

Just wondering why we have a section to do this in?

 

[jaywood1207]

Wow...Big business seems to have an influence on the IAP. I had to pull out my wallet and check that it said "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on my money to verify where I was!

Hey...IAP moderators, if you don't want to hear what your members have to say then DON'T offer a Cheer and Jeer section. Or just delete the threads that don't work in your favor...it already happened to me once today so why not force feed your members what you want them to see and hear, or who to buy from?

Just wondering why we have a section to do this in?

With all due respect, what was actually accomplished by all of your posts about this issue??They did nothing wrong and your blood pressure just keeps going up.

IMO nobody has accomplished anything and there are a lot of hurt feelings by those involved and those who have not responded but read all of the posts.

 

[SCR0LL3R]

With all due respect, what was actually accomplished by all of your posts about this issue??They did nothing wrong and your blood pressure just keeps going up.

IMO nobody has accomplished anything and there are a lot of hurt feelings by those involved and those who have not responded but read all of the posts.

Again it's a "Cheer and Jeer" forum...

With all the great suppliers to choose from, why is it not ok to jeer when a company doesn't meet the standards we get to enjoy from the vast majority of their competition?

People can read the original JeerSI post and use their own judgement as to how that affects their own opinion of PSI instead of telling the poster that he has no right to be dissatisfied.

Would I have Jeered for this reason? Maybe, but probably not. Would I criticize Wiset for his Jeer? No way. In fact I thank him for it.

 

[wiset1]

:biggrin: Thanks Keith

And Jamie my blood pressure is fine so thank you for being concerned.

 

[alphageek]

Wow...Big business seems to have an influence on the IAP. I had to pull out my wallet and check that it said "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on my money to verify where I was!

Hey...IAP moderators, if you don't want to hear what your members have to say then DON'T offer a Cheer and Jeer section. Or just delete the threads that don't work in your favor...it already happened to me once today so why not force feed your members what you want them to see and hear, or who to buy from?

Just wondering why we have a section to do this in?

Tim... STOP... Breathe deep.

Several points - the moderators don't offer the section, Jeff does. Why do we have a section? Answer: the same reasons for the rest of the sections - to organize and split out volumes of threads. Without the section, the posts would still exist - just mixed in all over the forum.

And no-one said you couldn't post a jeer, and we definitely do NOT delete threads "not in our favor". We moderate only by the rules. If you feel a moderation deleted you for something other than the rules, you need to bring that up with the moderators and/or Jeff. I can't find the post where you imply that so I would love to be enlightened (in PM please).

Andrew did not post to stop you or anyone else from posting, just was suggesting to think twice. There has been multiple times where jeers were posted, then quickly resolved. This was NOT posted because of any one jeer post.

 

[JimB]

With all due respect, what was actually accomplished by all of your posts about this issue??They did nothing wrong and your blood pressure just keeps going up.

IMO nobody has accomplished anything and there are a lot of hurt feelings by those involved and those who have not responded but read all of the posts.

Again it's a "Cheer and Jeer" forum...

With all the great suppliers to choose from, why is it not ok to jeer when a company doesn't meet the standards we get to enjoy from the vast majority of their competition?

People can read the original JeerSI post and use their own judgement as to how that affects their own opinion of PSI instead of telling the poster that he has no right to be dissatisfied.

Would I have Jeered for this reason? Maybe, but probably not. Would I criticize Wiset for his Jeer? No way. In fact I thank him for it.

Because that is not the purpose of the Jeer section. It is not to compare one vendor to another or one vendor to the standards of another vendor. It is if they do not live up to their obligation and the issue can't get resolved.

 

[SCR0LL3R]

Because that is not the purpose of the Jeer section. It is not to compare one vendor to another or one vendor to the standards of another vendor. It is if they do not live up to their obligation and the issue can't get resolved.

I don't see that in the rules...

(From the rules)
"When you cheer a vendor, make it over things the vendor has control over, such as product quality, selection, price, etc. It's not really very helpful to point out that the postal service got your package there quickly (unless you're cheering the postal service!)"

If you can cheer over these things, I would say that you can jeer over them too.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Wow...Big business seems to have an influence on the IAP. I had to pull out my wallet and check that it said "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on my money to verify where I was!

Hey...IAP moderators, if you don't want to hear what your members have to say then DON'T offer a Cheer and Jeer section. Or just delete the threads that don't work in your favor...it already happened to me once today so why not force feed your members what you want them to see and hear, or who to buy from?

Just wondering why we have a section to do this in?

I am not sure what your wallet and money had to do with anything, Tim! You may be in the United States of America but when on IAP, you are in Jeff's "house" so your freedom of speech is limited by the rules set forth.

As you know, I am the one who deleted the thread. It was a grey area when it was originally posted since it was a thinly veiled complaint against a company that everyone knew who you were talking about. Complaints about companies belong in a specific forum but when I first saw the thread, I decided to leave it since technically, it was not a jeer. Then a company name was specifically mentioned and then again by 2 other posters after your last post, you may not have seen those. Since you already had a jeer on the same company and issue, it was not appropriate to move the thread to the Cheers and Jeers forum. Thus the delete.

Your logic on "big business" having an influence on IAP does not really hold water since your jeer thread was not touched, just the thread that turned into a jeer in a forum that does not allow jeers!

 

[wiset1]

Wow...Big business seems to have an influence on the IAP. I had to pull out my wallet and check that it said "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on my money to verify where I was!

Hey...IAP moderators, if you don't want to hear what your members have to say then DON'T offer a Cheer and Jeer section. Or just delete the threads that don't work in your favor...it already happened to me once today so why not force feed your members what you want them to see and hear, or who to buy from?

Just wondering why we have a section to do this in?

I am not sure what your wallet and money had to do with anything, Tim! You may be in the United States of America but when on IAP, you are in Jeff's "house" so your freedom of speech is limited by the rules set forth.

As you know, I am the one who deleted the thread. It was a grey area when it was originally posted since it was a thinly veiled complaint against a company that everyone knew who you were talking about. Complaints about companies belong in a specific forum but when I first saw the thread, I decided to leave it since technically, it was not a jeer. Then a company name was specifically mentioned and then again by 2 other posters after your last post, you may not have seen those. Since you already had a jeer on the same company and issue, it was not appropriate to move the thread to the Cheers and Jeers forum. Thus the delete.

Your logic on "big business" having an influence on IAP does not really hold water since your jeer thread was not touched, just the thread that turned into a jeer in a forum that does not allow jeers!

I should really just leave this alone, but here goes Curtis.

It's fine if you want to let the IAP know that you deleted my post due to rules...I didn't mention it was you, but so be it if you want to. More power to you I guess...? I mentioned the money as a reflection of the country we live in, not to be confused with Communist China or one of those other fun countries. You clearly noted that site rules based on site owner...also fine.

The Big Business remark was a flow over from the request from Ken to watch who we Jeer since the 8th Birthday Bash was coming up and there was a fear that said vendor might leave or pull support for the IAP as a result of Jeers. Shortly after my Jeer spun out of control this posted about "Preventing Jeers." Thus, the Big Business remark. :beat-up:

Rules, rules...thank you for setting me on the path...and to think I was ready to let this one go as well when it was obviously posted based on my Jeer.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Wow...Big business seems to have an influence on the IAP. I had to pull out my wallet and check that it said "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on my money to verify where I was!

Hey...IAP moderators, if you don't want to hear what your members have to say then DON'T offer a Cheer and Jeer section. Or just delete the threads that don't work in your favor...it already happened to me once today so why not force feed your members what you want them to see and hear, or who to buy from?

Just wondering why we have a section to do this in?

I am not sure what your wallet and money had to do with anything, Tim! You may be in the United States of America but when on IAP, you are in Jeff's "house" so your freedom of speech is limited by the rules set forth.

As you know, I am the one who deleted the thread. It was a grey area when it was originally posted since it was a thinly veiled complaint against a company that everyone knew who you were talking about. Complaints about companies belong in a specific forum but when I first saw the thread, I decided to leave it since technically, it was not a jeer. Then a company name was specifically mentioned and then again by 2 other posters after your last post, you may not have seen those. Since you already had a jeer on the same company and issue, it was not appropriate to move the thread to the Cheers and Jeers forum. Thus the delete.

Your logic on "big business" having an influence on IAP does not really hold water since your jeer thread was not touched, just the thread that turned into a jeer in a forum that does not allow jeers!

I should really just leave this alone, but here goes Curtis.

It's fine if you want to let the IAP know that you deleted my post due to rules...I didn't mention it was you, but so be it if you want to. More power to you I guess...? I mentioned the money as a reflection of the country we live in, not to be confused with Communist China or one of those other fun countries. You clearly noted that site rules based on site owner...also fine.

The Big Business remark was a flow over from the request from Ken to watch who we Jeer since the 8th Birthday Bash was coming up and there was a fear that said vendor might leave or pull support for the IAP as a result of Jeers. Shortly after my Jeer spun out of control this posted about "Preventing Jeers." Thus, the Big Business remark. :beat-up:

Rules, rules...thank you for setting me on the path...and to think I was ready to let this one go as well when it was obviously posted based on my Jeer.

Tim,

My post above was not intended to let IAP know I deleted your post. However, when someone posts something demeaning the moderators, I am going to stand up and explain what happened and why so others understand the issue fully and see the reasoning. It was not meant to throw anything in your face. I am truly sorry if you felt that way.

 

[dgerwin11]

Maybe this thread needs go be closed.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Perhaps I never should have started it in the first place!

As Dean mentioned, I was just hoping to remind people to give things a sober second thought before posting, especially when advocating a big ol' black mark against a vendor.

My apologies if anyone thought this was directed toward them, or in response to any particular thread; I was just asking for people to exhaust their options first, before taking it another step.

Hopefully we can now stop the fighting!

 

[rherrell]

We already had this argument when Jeff started the IAP Marketplace forums. With the new format customers are not allowed to comment in the classifieds so he created "Cheers and Jeers" to give us a place to voice our opinions about vendors.

I was very vocal in my dislike of the "no comment" rule, I live and die by word of mouth and at the time it seemed like a bad idea. I can now see the wisdom of the idea and it doesn't bother me anymore.

My thinking is....treat your customers right and don't worry about it.:biggrin:

 

[SDB777]

Many of the 'jeers' seem to end in a resolved situation, and I wonder if they couldn't have been resolved via email or telephone calls to the superiors at that company in the first place, and avoided that "jeer" - in my mind, a Jeer should only result if the company is unwilling to right a clearly wrong situation, or unresponsive.

Then again, maybe(just maybe) the offending company saw the post and then decided to act and get the problem resolved? And without the 'Jeer' things would have been left un-resolved.....


Scott (thinking outside of my head again) B

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

We already had this argument when Jeff started the IAP Marketplace forums. With the new format customers are not allowed to comment in the classifieds so he created "Cheers and Jeers" to give us a place to voice our opinions about vendors.

I was very vocal in my dislike of the "no comment" rule, I live and die by word of mouth and at the time it seemed like a bad idea. I can now see the wisdom of the idea and it doesn't bother me anymore.

My thinking is....treat your customers right and don't worry about it.:biggrin:

Could not agree more, well stated!!! Now if only you'd get your lathe so I could get mine:biggrin::wink:.. Said with tongue planted firmly in cheek

 

[Smitty37]

I agree mostly.....

It's actually kind of a funny sign of the times.

We email (instant) an order and expect that the company will start on it immediately (at 2 AM, local time). Then, we expect the USPS to deliver in milliseconds, so, by the time we awaken the order has arrived!!

I find this amusing from two perspectives:
1) I remember sending orders by mail, with a check, then waiting for delivery. Two weeks was RAPID delivery!!!
2) I'm amazed at how often the vendor is praised!!! Why? Cause USPS DID get it there immediately----I have gained a lot of respect for USPS in the last couple years and hundreds of packages.

Last, I have some sympathy for the large vendors. They ship HUNDREDS of boxes each day, but during the holidays their workload is increased. I'm guessing some are 500% of a "normal" day. There is NO WAY to prepare for that, economically.

So, I wish you all a Merry Christmas--and I hope all of your presents arrive in time!!!

Ed
(member, not the vendor)

You hit the nail right on the head there -- I remember when some companies first started taking telephone orders and letting you use your credit card.

Things used to take so long getting shipped to me I had to write on the calendar when I expected something so I wouldn't forget that I had ordered it.

Now folks want an item shipped two days before they order it so they can have it the same day if they order before 3pm local time. Then they expect the special handling to be included in free shipping.

But that's life in the fast lane I guess.

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Tim, don't be 'discouraged' with this little incident and please keep on posting your wonderful SOYP creations. IAP can not afford to lose another talented 'artist' due to a little bickering that is boundless at the IAP corral. Everything wil be OK (pun intended).

 

[wiset1]

Thanks Peter,

I'm fine...I went out in the garage the other day and finished up 4 pens and segmented another one. Direct my energy in a positive manner I guess. With my wife being due any day now and me being locked at home instead of work I'm getting a little crazy so I think that's coming out. I guess I should just back down, but I was taught to never quit or run away so...drama is bound to follow me. Everything is good...found a new home to get my product from so I'm happy.

 

[bitshird]

Thanks Peter,

I'm fine...I went out in the garage the other day and finished up 4 pens and segmented another one. Direct my energy in a positive manner I guess. With my wife being due any day now and me being locked at home instead of work I'm getting a little crazy so I think that's coming out. I guess I should just back down, [size=+2]but I was taught to never quit or run away so...drama is bound to follow me.[/size] Everything is good...found a new home to get my product from so I'm happy.

Tim, if you're good with Drama, the Kardashians are now a man short!!!

 

[Smitty37]

Hmmmm

Thanks Peter,

I'm fine...I went out in the garage the other day and finished up 4 pens and segmented another one. Direct my energy in a positive manner I guess. With my wife being due any day now and me being locked at home instead of work I'm getting a little crazy so I think that's coming out. I guess I should just back down, but I was taught to never quit or run away so...drama is bound to follow me. Everything is good...found a new home to get my product from so I'm happy.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive, backing off when it makes sense isn't quitting or running away, it's just using your common sense.

As a backdrop - I have not seen the "other" thread that has been mentioned this post is made based only on what I've seen in this thread.

 

[Russianwolf]

Back to the original post....

Fact number one in business, You will never please everyone.

As a business man, I look for the negative comments more than the positive. If all I hear is what's going right, I am not likely to make changes. When I hear about something going wrong, I can work to fix it.

So for me a Jeer is a good thing. It allows me to identify an issue and work to fix it. And there is almost always a way to fix it.

If I advertise that all shipments will go out within 5 days, you better believe I'll be shooting for 3 days. If I advertise that a gift at a certain price point, I'm going to include the gift in all orders that come close to the price point.

Advertise to your customers what they can expect from you. Then EXCEED those expectations.

Someone will likely still find a reason to complain, but listen to them and see if you can find a way to solve it.

 

[joefyffe]

Good philosophy, Mike!!!

 

[wiset1]

Thanks Peter,

I'm fine...I went out in the garage the other day and finished up 4 pens and segmented another one. Direct my energy in a positive manner I guess. With my wife being due any day now and me being locked at home instead of work I'm getting a little crazy so I think that's coming out. I guess I should just back down, but I was taught to never quit or run away so...drama is bound to follow me. Everything is good...found a new home to get my product from so I'm happy.

Tim, if you're good with Drama, the Kardashians are now a man short!!!

Ken if I thought my wife wouldn't kill me for doing it I would! I could always use some more tools and a bigger house:rotfl:

 

[Smitty37]

Good philosophy

Back to the original post....

Fact number one in business, You will never please everyone.

As a business man, I look for the negative comments more than the positive. If all I hear is what's going right, I am not likely to make changes. When I hear about something going wrong, I can work to fix it.

So for me a Jeer is a good thing. It allows me to identify an issue and work to fix it. And there is almost always a way to fix it.

If I advertise that all shipments will go out within 5 days, you better believe I'll be shooting for 3 days. If I advertise that a gift at a certain price point, I'm going to include the gift in all orders that come close to the price point.

Advertise to your customers what they can expect from you. Then EXCEED those expectations.

Someone will likely still find a reason to complain, but listen to them and see if you can find a way to solve it.

I know how that works -- I try to ship everything same or next day depending on what time the order gets in. My philosophy is don't make promises lightly and keep the promises you make.

 

[jeff]

Wow...Big business seems to have an influence on the IAP. I had to pull out my wallet and check that it said "THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on my money to verify where I was!

Hey...IAP moderators, if you don't want to hear what your members have to say then DON'T offer a Cheer and Jeer section. Or just delete the threads that don't work in your favor...it already happened to me once today so why not force feed your members what you want them to see and hear, or who to buy from?

Just wondering why we have a section to do this in?

No business has any influence on the IAP. I don't want Bash donations or forum participation from companies who don't treat their customers right on a consistent and well-intentioned basis.

We have moderated some jeers and there's a somewhat selfish reason for that; I want our jeers to be solid and well-substantiated. When a vendor asks me to delete a jeer (and they do ask), I want to be able to confidently respond that it stands because it's a legitimate gripe and they should have made more of an effort to avoid or resolve it.

So, two things I need from you all.

1 - LEGITIMATE GRIPES: Not things you just don't LIKE, but real, solid complaints that were within the ability of the business to prevent or resolve. These should be things that the average person would agree is worth hurting a business over. Jeers DO hurt businesses, so let's have the decency to be careful and responsible with them.

2 - EFFORT TO RESOLVE: Make an effort to resolve it. Make the phone call, send the email, and do your part to give the vendor an opportunity to correct mistakes.

3 - DON'T INVALIDATE if 1 & 2 are met. If someone has a legitimate beef, and they've made an unsuccessful effort to resolve it, don't try to pick apart their argument just because you had a favorable experience with the same vendor. Ask questions, offer suggestions, but there's no need to go on the attack.

If we can't live within these rules, then C&J has to change or close. People push back on complaints that don't follow 1 & 2 above, and we end up with jeers that degenerate into arguments.

Maybe we need another category between a cheer and a jeer. Maybe "neutral" or "so-so" or "my experience" when things didn't quite go well, or just to relate a less than stellar experience.

I'm open to your suggestions (PM) to improving Cheers and Jeers. I think it's valuable, but the arguments really detract from the value.

 

[dgerwin11]

Well stated Jeff

 

[NewLondon88]

With all the great suppliers to choose from, why is it not ok to jeer when a company doesn't meet the standards we get to enjoy from the vast majority of their competition?

Perhaps it is just the way I'm reading this (very possible) but the way
I'm seeing it gives me pause. It sounds like you want to hold every
vendor to the promises of their competitor.

I'd say jeer when they don't meet their own promises, not what
we have come to expect from someone else.
Like I said.. I could be reading it wrong.

 

[dgerwin11]

With all the great suppliers to choose from, why is it not ok to jeer when a company doesn't meet the standards we get to enjoy from the vast majority of their competition?

Perhaps it is just the way I'm reading this (very possible) but the way
I'm seeing it gives me pause. It sounds like you want to hold every
vendor to the promises of their competitor.

I'd say jeer when they don't meet their own promises, not what
we have come to expect from someone else.
Like I said.. I could be reading it wrong.

+ 1

 

[Joe Burns]

Its been an interesting thread to follow. I believe most dissatisfaction and jeers come from broken or lack of communications. Especially lack of responsiveness.

Joe

 

[SCR0LL3R]

I'd say jeer when they don't meet their own promises, not what
we have come to expect from someone else.
Like I said.. I could be reading it wrong.

I think I should be able to jeer if they don't meet my expectations as long as I am clear in my post about why I am jeering.

A company that does the bare minimum when it comes to satisfying customers doesn't deserve the same reputation as those that go above and beyond and if we can't share our experiences in this section of the forum then where can we?

I don't care about hurting feelings when a business (or representative), in my opinion, shows a lack of concern for customers... (Not speaking about any business in particular here)