Forum Change

[beck3906]

Can this forum be setup where someone can post a cheer or jeer and the thread be limited to the O. P.?

Would cut down on the thread getting contaminated.

 

[magpens]

I think your suggestion is a good one, Rick.

After all, a cheer/jeer is basically a statement of one person's current "opinion" and should not be taken as an invitation for discussion, corroboration, or contradiction.

Implementation of your suggestion should be possible, I would think.

Also, a cheer/jeer based on rapid delivery time should be disallowed because it relates mostly to USPS (or other carrier) efficiency/inefficiency. . I know it would be nice to acknowledge a vendor's timeliness in the picking/handling/shipping department but that is often hard to separate from the USPS transit time, unless the vendor's order receipt and shipping times are specifically accounted for and reported (as is done in some cases).

 

[edstreet]

Would be more professional if that sub forum went bye bye.

 

[jeff]

Can this forum be setup where someone can post a cheer or jeer and the thread be limited to the O. P.?

Would cut down on the thread getting contaminated.

Yes it can.

We regularly discuss options for C&J. I'll bring this up.

 

[JimB]

Can this forum be setup where someone can post a cheer or jeer and the thread be limited to the O. P.?

Would cut down on the thread getting contaminated.

One downside would be people often post how the OP could get the issue resolved with the vendor. I guess people could PM the OP.

I also wouldn't have a problem with this forum going away completely.

 

[BJohn]

I kind of agree (MAYBE AGREE) with limiting the comments to the OP. I for one in the past have expressed my displeasure with a certain vendor. And one of my comments have been edited by a moderator which I may not have liked but I do understand.

And PM's could be used to help the OP get the situation resolved, however what about the incident with the chap in Australia. Here the guy (as far as I know has not been resolved) was actually took members money. Jeff may not have discovered to what extent the problem with chap really was.

And the Marine in Texas that was taking advantage of both members and vendors.

Now these may or may not have been in the cheers and jeers forum..See my next comment.

By cutting this forum out completely would be a disservice to the members as a whole, there is a place for it! Any way the cheers/Jeers would just be put in a different forum NOT ELIMINATE THE POST.

That's why we have moderator's Let them do there job. Nobody makes someone read the cheers/jeers. If you don't want to read them just don't.

Now IMHO, what about the rude comments to current and especially new members?

To some extent people should be allowed to post a reply to a thread. But let's keep it civil. I certainly have and will continue to tone my posts down,

How far are we willing to take it? ONCE AGAIN LET THE MODERATORS DO THEIR JOB.

 

[CREID]

Something needs to be done, I don't know what, but this is making all of us and the IAP look bad. There is no need to bash a certain vendor to the point of hurting the group as a whole.

Curt

 

[stonepecker]

Something needs to be done, I don't know what, but this is making all of us and the IAP look bad. There is no need to bash a certain vendor to the point of hurting the group as a whole.

Curt

I have to agree with one comment........

We as the IAP can only control and moderate what happens here, within this group.
Selfcontrol is something not everyone has. And even I have been known to loose my temper.
(I never claimed to be perfect.)

To me, there is never a reason to 'bash' anyone. Make your statement, voice your opinion, do it in a civil manner. THEN let it go......move on.......go turn a pen.

Life really is to short.

 

[CREID]

Something needs to be done, I don't know what, but this is making all of us and the IAP look bad. There is no need to bash a certain vendor to the point of hurting the group as a whole.

Curt

I have to agree with one comment........

We as the IAP can only control and moderate what happens here, within this group.
Selfcontrol is something not everyone has. And even I have been known to loose my temper.
(I never claimed to be perfect.)

To me, there is never a reason to 'bash' anyone. Make your statement, voice your opinion, do it in a civil manner. THEN let it go......move on.......go turn a pen.

Life really is to short.

I have to admit I have lost my temper and now try to be a better member after having realized it only makes me look stupid. This was not in a cheer of jeer. I agree, though, state your opinion and move on. I was not sure of only allowing the OP making a statement, but maybe that is the only way to do it. Have the C or J forum as a one post per thread and leave it that way. Maybe even limit the amt of times you can post a thread in that forum to a certain amt of times per year to try and prevent abuse. I repeat though, the way things are currently, makes the IAP look bad.

Curt

 

[BJohn]

Curt I just don't understand how the IAP would look bad. I think the person doing the ranting might look bad.

I can't recall any one (that i may have read) were some one mentioned that the IAP looks bad because of a Jeer?

I personally feel proud that the IAP has a place were members can post a well thought out and delivered cheer or jeer.

This thought just came to me (WOW WERE DID THAT COME FROM) why not separate them, a forum for cheers and a forum for the jeers.

 

[Smitty37]

Something needs to be done, I don't know what, but this is making all of us and the IAP look bad. There is no need to bash a certain vendor to the point of hurting the group as a whole.

Curt

I have to agree with one comment........

We as the IAP can only control and moderate what happens here, within this group.
Selfcontrol is something not everyone has. And even I have been known to loose my temper.
(I never claimed to be perfect.)

To me, there is never a reason to 'bash' anyone. Make your statement, voice your opinion, do it in a civil manner. THEN let it go......move on.......go turn a pen.

Life really is to short.

I have to admit I have lost my temper and now try to be a better member after having realized it only makes me look stupid. This was not in a cheer of jeer. I agree, though, state your opinion and move on. I was not sure of only allowing the OP making a statement, but maybe that is the only way to do it. Have the C or J forum as a one post per thread and leave it that way. Maybe even limit the amt of times you can post a thread in that forum to a certain amt of times per year to try and prevent abuse. I repeat though, the way things are currently, makes the IAP look bad.

Curt

My opinion is that you are mistaken in your conclusion that Cheers & Jeers makes IAP look bad.

That being said, I would not object if it did not allow comments beyond the OP but in my opinion that would reduce the use of the forum and would have Cheers and Jeers, particularly "jeers" showing up in other forums.

Cheers & Jeers serves three purposes, first it allows a member to express an experience (good or bad) with a vendor.

Second, it allows other members to present evidence that the experience is isolated or common.

Third it allows other members to offer advice on how to approach getting the perceived problem resolved.

Going to an OP only approach would eliminate two and three above.

 

[lkgraves]

Well, I hesitate to respond as history shows that I will get attacked as I only have 7 other posts-to-date. I agree 100% that this bickering makes the IAP look bad. As a new member I can't believe the messages that go back and forth in the Cheer/Jeers forum. I like to read the Cheers and Jeers and make my own adult decisions about how to interpret other users' experiences.

Unfortunately what happens is the poor guy that has the nerve to post a Jeer gets attacked. He is told that it was his fault and/or he doesn't understand how business works.

As a new member I can definitely tell you this nonsense makes the group look petty and angry.

Not really the best example of an open forum for sharing experiences.

 

[magpens]

Something needs to be done, I don't know what, but this is making all of us and the IAP look bad. There is no need to bash a certain vendor to the point of hurting the group as a whole.

Curt

I don't agree that a jeer can be a bad reflection on the IAP as a whole.

I even doubt that a jeer can reflect badly on the poster, it is simply his/her opinion at that time. Some express better than others.

The IAP came about and continues to exist for one primary reason, namely, communication between people with common interests.

A jeer communicates information which is worthwhile knowing and we need to hear it. We're not a bunch of wimps (I hope) and we can take it; in fact, we deserve to hear it.

Repetition of anything can, of course, get boring and is usually inappropriate. The same jeer for the same reason from the same poster should not be repeated, unless, of course, the vendor repeats the mistake that prompts the jeer.

If you look through the jeers on record, there are indeed quite a significant number of jeers for one vendor in particular, whose name does not even need to be stated. The number of different posters and the number of different "trigger" events are significant. There is some restatement, yes, but I would say that the restatement usually relates to repeated offences by the same vendor. The statement that "I wouldn't buy a life-jacket from XXX if I were on a sinking ship" does not come about after a single offence.

Everybody who posts on IAP is an adult and is reasonably experienced in online buying and I am confident that everyone is willing to give a vendor the chance to correct mistakes. No one would post a jeer after a single error or mistake, I am quite sure of that.

The truly sad thing, IMHO, is that this vendor has been consistently jeered over the years by different posters for different events.

In my 6 years as a penturner I have placed nearly 20 orders with that vendor. Well over half of those orders have been problematic for me for some reason or another. And the problems have kept being repeated. Now that *does* get REALLY boring, to the point where I feel like saying .......
And you haven't heard a jeer from me every time I have been offended.

I have a lot of sympathy for the people who have had experiences like mine.

Don't you think that this vendor should take observable measures to correct the root cause of the problems ? Do you think they don't read and don't know about the problems that seem to be systemic ?

Maybe this forum should have a change or two. IMHO, other changes are *required* in our community which includes vendors.

 

[Smitty37]

Well, I hesitate to respond as history shows that I will get attacked as I only have 7 other posts-to-date. I agree 100% that this bickering makes the IAP look bad. As a new member I can't believe the messages that go back and forth in the Cheer/Jeers forum. I like to read the Cheers and Jeers and make my own adult decisions about how to interpret other users' experiences.

Unfortunately what happens is the poor guy that has the nerve to post a Jeer gets attacked. He is told that it was his fault and/or he doesn't understand how business works.

As a new member I can definitely tell you this nonsense makes the group look petty and angry.

Not really the best example of an open forum for sharing experiences.

You aroused my curiosity with that statement so since it involved only a few, I looked at all of your posts...none of them resulted in you being attacked in any way what-so-ever even when you 'defended' a person who had been subject of a jeer.

I would think that after over two years of membership calling yourself a 'new' member is a bit of a stretch.

 

[lkgraves]

Smitty, thank you for proving my point. Instead of considering my point of view, you chose to review me, audit my history and then critique my estimation of what the length of time one can be considered a new member. I consider myself new because I rarely post because of this kind of communication. My newness relates to my participation not pure time.

More importantly, my comment that you highlighted wasn't meant to say that I've been attacked in the past. I meant that I was exposing myself to attack like many others have in the past. The wording wasn't perfect, but then again I wasn't writing a legal brief. If one tried to read my comment with an open mind, they would have understood. If, however, they looked at it in attempt to criticize then they would have interpreted it the way you did.

I will try to be more clear. The actual Cheer or Jeer does not make the IAP look bad. I think the reviews are tremendously helpful. Because, again, I am an adult and can interpret their message and place the proper amount of weight to their opinion. What makes the IAP look bad, is the silly attacking of the OP, the parsing of words, blaming the OP, etc.

I joined this group because I thought it was a group dedicated to sharing information and helping others. Not nitpicking and attacking.

 

[Smitty37]

Smitty, thank you for proving my point. Instead of considering my point of view, you chose to review me, audit my history and then critique my estimation of what the length of time one can be considered a new member. I consider myself new because I rarely post because of this kind of communication. My newness relates to my participation not pure time.

More importantly, my comment that you highlighted wasn't meant to say that I've been attacked in the past. I meant that I was exposing myself to attack like many others have in the past. The wording wasn't perfect, but then again I wasn't writing a legal brief. If one tried to read my comment with an open mind, they would have understood. If, however, they looked at it in attempt to criticize then they would have interpreted it the way you did.

I will try to be more clear. The actual Cheer or Jeer does not make the IAP look bad. I think the reviews are tremendously helpful. Because, again, I am an adult and can interpret their message and place the proper amount of weight to their opinion. What makes the IAP look bad, is the silly attacking of the OP, the parsing of words, blaming the OP, etc.

I joined this group because I thought it was a group dedicated to sharing information and helping others. Not nitpicking and attacking.

I think a reasonable reading of the sentence I highlighted in your post is that it infers you have been attacked in the past. Since I could not recall ever having seen where you were attacked and you had made so few posts I looked and saw that you hadn't been.

"New" to me, refers to new member which most seem to consider is less than a year regardless of number of posts.

One of the nice features of this forum is that if you are only interested in what the OP in Cheers & Jeers has to say....you can stop following the thread right there - I almost always do.

BTW I took your entire post in, I did read it and did not comment on your opinions, you are entitled to those. I commented on what you put in as a statement of fact. And it was not an attack.

 

[lkgraves]

[/quote]I think a reasonable reading of the sentence I highlighted in your post is that it infers you have been attacked in the past. Since I could not recall ever having seen where you were attacked and you had made so few posts I looked and saw that you hadn't been.

"New" to me, refers to new member which most seem to consider is less than a year regardless of number of posts.

One of the nice features of this forum is that if you are only interested in what the OP in Cheers & Jeers has to say....you can stop following the thread right there - I almost always do.

BTW I took your entire post in, I did read it and did not comment on your opinions, you are entitled to those. I commented on what you put in as a statement of fact. And it was not an attack.[/QUOTE]

Well Smitty, I can only tell you what I meant. You can either choose to accept it or not. It was a statement of fact. And no matter how much you want to make it something different, it won't change it. In the future, when "inferring", try to do so with a positive attitude.

And I apologize if my definition of "new" doesn't meet your strict definition.

But I assume we can both agree that this dialog proves my initial point.

For what its worth, I also consider myself a "new" customer of yours. I have made a few purchases fairly recently. They went much smoother than this dialog.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Remember, we're all adults, so I think we can treat each other civilly and with respect...and not focus on trying to cut each other down. Opinions are meant to be shared, especially when discussing possible forum changes - and everyone's input is equally valid!

This isn't directed at any one person - just a general observation that I hope will help guide further discussions in this thread.

Thanks!
Andrew
assistant moderator

 

[Smitty37]

I think a reasonable reading of the sentence I highlighted in your post is that it infers you have been attacked in the past. Since I could not recall ever having seen where you were attacked and you had made so few posts I looked and saw that you hadn't been.

"New" to me, refers to new member which most seem to consider is less than a year regardless of number of posts.

One of the nice features of this forum is that if you are only interested in what the OP in Cheers & Jeers has to say....you can stop following the thread right there - I almost always do.

BTW I took your entire post in, I did read it and did not comment on your opinions, you are entitled to those. I commented on what you put in as a statement of fact. And it was not an attack.[/quote]

Well Smitty, I can only tell you what I meant. You can either choose to accept it or not. It was a statement of fact. And no matter how much you want to make it something different, it won't change it. In the future, when "inferring", try to do so with a positive attitude.

And I apologize if my definition of "new" doesn't meet your strict definition.

But I assume we can both agree that this dialog proves my initial point.

For what its worth, I also consider myself a "new" customer of yours. I have made a few purchases fairly recently. They went much smoother than this dialog.[/quote]I'll take your word that you are a new' customer . Thank you for your business. (I don't correlate d IAP IDs to customer names)

I accept what you meant, if you had said what you meant in your first post - I wouldn't have responded at all.

Perhaps if you had said "new to posting"......

 

[Smitty37]

Remember, we're all adults, so I think we can treat each other civilly and with respect...and not focus on trying to cut each other down. Opinions are meant to be shared, especially when discussing possible forum changes - and everyone's input is equally valid!

This isn't directed at any one person - just a general observation that I hope will help guide further discussions in this thread.

Thanks!
Andrew
assistant moderator

I was going to suggest that this thread does not belong here and should go to casual conversation, or some other more general thread, but Jeff responded to the OP so I changed my mind on that. But, I'm still not sure it doesn't belong elsewhere.

 

[triw51]

Can this forum be setup where someone can post a cheer or jeer and the thread be limited to the O. P.?

Would cut down on the thread getting contaminated.

Not up to date on all the terms so what does O. P. stand for?

 

[alphageek]

Not up to date on all the terms so what does O. P. stand for?

Original poster (or sometimes origin post) depending on the context.

 

[wood4fun]

I like the way it is, its a review section, people doing the reviews will have a good or bad experience, I do think its sad the most of the comments after the review has be written are on the jeers, people love drama

 

[suefox51]

Can we perhaps stop beating an already dead horse???

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I wouldn't call it beating a dead horse, Sue. If something needs fixing, it's important to find out what needs to be fixed, and get ideas about how to do it right.

 

[tjseagrove]

Some thoughts on some of the suggestions...if making changes...

-Do not allow search engine indexing of this forum.
-Limit access and visibly to members only and after they have contributed a certain number of posts. (this is implemented in other professional forums I am part of)
-If only a post by original poster is allowed, a rebuttal by vendor should also be allowed.
256258260

 

[CREID]

Some thoughts on some of the suggestions...if making changes...

-Do not allow search engine indexing of this forum.
-Limit access and visibly to members only and after they have contributed a certain number of posts. (this is implemented in other professional forums I am part of)
-If only a post by original poster is allowed, a rebuttal by vendor should also be allowed.
256258260

I like these ideas, especially the second one. The one problem though, is that doing a cheer or a jeer in the cheer or jeer forum is really only a title or category thing. Anyone can do a cheer or jeer in, say the casual forum for instance, it just won't be categorized in the menu as cheer or jeer they would have to say it in the title.

 

[jeff]

Some thoughts on some of the suggestions...if making changes...

-Do not allow search engine indexing of this forum.
-Limit access and visibly to members only and after they have contributed a certain number of posts. (this is implemented in other professional forums I am part of)
-If only a post by original poster is allowed, a rebuttal by vendor should also be allowed.
256258260

Interesting ideas! We'll consider them.

 

[edicehouse]

Just my 2 cents worth.

It seems often if someone posts a "jeer" on here for one of the "active" venders on here; people try to figure out the problem, or offer advice as to steps to get a positive resolution. And it seems that often a resolution is made by the vender answering.

There was a vender that stiffed a few people this past year, and it seemed that once someone said something others stated they had not received their blanks, things came to light. Which was a good thing for all. If there was not a jeer section, how many would have paid without knowing? Would Jeff have been made aware of this and take the actions he took?

It seems like a major vender, that often had "jeers" on shipping or customer relations had things improved by the number of jeers.

I for one like the cheers and jeers section. I imagine a lot of issues are resolved here without flooding the entire forum.