INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING

[Smitty37]

AS MANY OF YOU ALREADY KNOW - INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING HAS BECOME A CAN OF WORMS FOR A LOT OF US SMALL VENDORS - TO THE POINT WHERE AT LEAST SOME OF US ARE CONSIDERING ENDING SHIPMENTS TO OTHER COUNTRIES.

DEPENDING ON THE SHOPPING CART WE'RE USING WE HAVE LIMITS ON WHAT WE CAN DO WHEN CALCULATING SHIPPING CHARGES. HENCE, IT IS DIFFICULT TO LET OUR CART CALCULATE INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING, ESPECIALLY WHEN USING USPS.

I WANT TO GET INTERNATIONAL (NON-USA) BUYERS OPINION ON A COUPLE OF OPTIONS.

 

[UKpenmaker]

I have voted, but to be honest i would go with whatever is easiest for the seller.

I don't know about other people over here in the UK, but i am just glad there are people who are prepared to ship overseas.
It would make things very thin on the ground if we had to source supplies from just the UK

 

[ed4copies]

As you consider this question, bear in mind that EVERY international requires more steps than a domestic shipment.

The shipper has to do the Customs paperwork and, in the case of SOME countries, the shipper has to appear at the Post Office, stand in line and complete the transaction there.

We can ship four domestics in the time it takes to ship ONE international, assuming we don't have to go to the post office. If we DO have to go to the post office, the ratio becomes closer to 10 to 1 (domestic to International).

Every step we add increases the cost of that transaction.

 

[skiprat]

No biggie at all really.
When we order from any overseas company, we know it's not going to get there the next day anyway, so waiting for an actual price for postage isn't a problem.

CSUSA used to send you a seperate email with the shipping costs and if you replied that it was ok, then they would simple add the cost to your transaction.

But Like Andy said, what ever suits you guys is normally fine with us. :biggrin:

 

[Mack C.]

I voted #3! That's the method CS USA uses and it hasn't caused me any delay! At least until I experience rate the cost of shipping from individual retailers, I may change my mind after that.

 

[Ligget]

I agree with Andy and Steve, plus I order a larger quantity of items rather than several small orders when buying from overseas.

 

[Smitty37]

I like #3 myself....but shopping cart limitations might mean a separate invoice for shipping and a separate payment...I don't know if I can get my shopping cart service to make a change or not.

 

[Smitty37]

As you consider this question, bear in mind that EVERY international requires more steps than a domestic shipment.

The shipper has to do the Customs paperwork and, in the case of SOME countries, the shipper has to appear at the Post Office, stand in line and complete the transaction there.

We can ship four domestics in the time it takes to ship ONE international, assuming we don't have to go to the post office. If we DO have to go to the post office, the ratio becomes closer to 10 to 1 (domestic to International).

Every step we add increases the cost of that transaction.

Also more cost if paying via paypal or credit card. I think I my paypal fee is 1.5% higher on international payments...I've been eating that charge up til now but I don't know that I can continue to do so.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Most shopping carts will NOT let you have the option to hold the order than let the customer pick a shipping method. I have chargeing a flat rate no matter the size and absorb any overage most customers are very happy, if the flat rate is much higher refund the overage. I'm in the mist of developing a new site and I'll ask if there could be shipping options that the customer can pick.

 

[Smitty37]

Most shopping carts will NOT let you have the option to hold the order than let the customer pick a shipping method. I have chargeing a flat rate no matter the size and absorb any overage most customers are very happy, if the flat rate is much higher refund the overage. I'm in the mist of developing a new site and I'll ask if there could be shipping options that the customer can pick.

I know they won't that's why I said it might involve a separate invoice and payment for shipping.

The problem with the flat rate is where the weight goes over 4 pounds or $400.00 value or the volume becomes too much for a small flat rate box - the shipping then takes a huge jump when you need to go to a medium Flat Rate Box. I will be talking to my store to see what we can do to put an order on hold.


For me, I either find a way to handle this or stop making international shipments.

 

[skiprat]

Roy and LeRoy

Please note that I really doubt that any person from outside USA would begrudge you charging a suitable fee to cover your costs. If your charge was silly, then we'd quietly just vote with our feet.

Our big gripe is when the stuff lands in the UK....
It's most often hit and miss as to whether we get snagged for customs duty and other handling charges.
My experience has shown that the more 'professionaly' a box is packed and labelled determines whether or not it attract the customs man.
For me, most 'hand packed' stuff sails through, but for example, most CSUSA stuff is pro packed and often gets their attention.
What's on the label hardly matters. For some reason, CSUSA always use a huge box for just a small order.
However, I will always still buy from CSUSA as they always seem to be the silent pro's in the background. Nothing phases them.

An extra dollar or two certainly won't make any difference at all to us.

Even now, it's most often still far cheaper to buy from USA or OZ than in the UK.

Any vendor that thinks it's a chore to sell stuff to me won't be getting my money. It might be a big palaver to take my stuff to the post office now, but it wasn't such a big deal when they were just starting out.:wink:

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Smitty, just using today as an example, I had one order to Spain, one to Canada and one to Scotland and I'm offering a nice shipping discount during the bash, after charging my flat rate and giving the discount I lost $18 on the shipping, not a big enough deal for me as if I wasn't giving the shipping discount I would have not lost a cent and would have refunded a couple of dollars. I'm using International first class as much as possible. If I lose a few dollars to my international buyers again not a big deal as I think most would understand if we raised our prices to stay in business for them, but not until it effects my bottom line.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I hate refunds, as we get charged currency conversion in the first place, and again on the refund.

Not a big deal once in a while, but expensive on a regular basis.

 

[Smitty37]

I hate refunds, as we get charged currency conversion in the first place, and again on the refund.

Not a big deal once in a while, but expensive on a regular basis.

Well they get us on both ends - I get charged because you are out of country
you get charged to convert currency.

 

[Smitty37]

Smitty, just using today as an example, I had one order to Spain, one to Canada and one to Scotland and I'm offering a nice shipping discount during the bash, after charging my flat rate and giving the discount I lost $18 on the shipping, not a big enough deal for me as if I wasn't giving the shipping discount I would have not lost a cent and would have refunded a couple of dollars. I'm using International first class as much as possible. If I lose a few dollars to my international buyers again not a big deal as I think most would understand if we raised our prices to stay in business for them, but not until it effect my bottom line.

We have very different business models Roy.

 

[Smitty37]

MY PURPOSE

My purpose in this is not to settle on how we do things - that's up to each of us. I'm hoping we can all gain some information about what our customers would like. Shopping carts may dictate how we handle it, since most of them are not very flexible on shipping and not all of them will allow customizing, but at least we will know what to ask the cart services to provide. If international shipping is a headache for us, you can bet it's a headache for lots of other small vendors as well.

 

[ed4copies]

Another aspect of this is the changing procedures of the USPS. Only recently have they demanded that we come to the Post Office to mail to some countries. I drop off packages every day, so they do know me by sight, but now I have to stand in the line and it takes the clerk 10 minutes to do the label that I can do at my desk much more quickly.

Local guys don't know why I have to "present myself" for some countries, but they do believe there will be additional countries added to that list.

As a side note, one bank that I go into to make deposits has a sign on the door now--they would prefer if I would remove my sunglasses and leave them in the car. "Those who are likely to rob banks prefer disguises". I guess their video surveillance is fooled by sunglasses????

So, at least the USPS lets me come in with the sunglasses on---They seem to recognize me, nonetheless!!!

I don't know what a "package bomber" looks like---but I guess they do, so they will stop any "bad" packages. Yeah, right!!

 

[rixstix]

Another aspect of this is the changing procedures of the USPS. Only recently have they demanded that we come to the Post Office to mail to some countries. I drop off packages every day, so they do know me by sight, but now I have to stand in the line and it takes the clerk 10 minutes to do the label that I can do at my desk much more quickly.

The rules must be different or enforced differently around the country. Our post office asks why I stood in line when I could have either put the package into any "BlueBox" for pickup, into the package bin in the lobby or just put my stack of packages onto the pile at the unattended counter position for domestic and international.

"International mailpieces, including mail destined to APO/FPO/DPO addresses, with a customs declaration form that was not completed and submitted online (e.g., using Click-N-Ship®) must be presented by the customer to an employee at a retail service counter at a Post Office location." I was assuming that everyone is submitting their customs forms online; not handwritten.

Like Smitty said, we're all different but our cart talks to either Stamps.com or ShipStation.com and can autofill the customs forms. Cart talks to the USPS servers to provide 1st class and FR quotes based upon country. Fedex has been a preferred choice by some customers over the Medium FlatRate boxes due to 2 day delivery, only a few dollars more and customs clearance is included in the pricing.

 

[ed4copies]

Try Russia.

The drop down on USPS says it is available, then fill out the form and it tells you to go to the Post Office to purchase postage.

There are others we have encountered, but we don't remember which ones. We do a number of International every week.

Edit in: There is a list of about 30 countries that Dawn located for me. Most of Africa, much of Russian Federation, Cambodia.

Also recall our shipments are frequently 10 pounds or more, not two pens.

 

[rixstix]

Try Russia.

The drop down on USPS says it is available, then fill out the form and it tells you to go to the Post Office to purchase postage.

Using an address in Moscow, ShipStation just allowed me to print the Endicia label with customs form without a problem.

I really hadn't a clue if it would be allowed or not and surprised me that it did print.

Is there a URL to an official list of countries not available using Click-N-Ship? It wouldn't be the first time that we found a glitch in a 3rd party postage app.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

If I pay in US dollars, why do you get charged for me living in Canada? Does paypal charge both ends? Seems odd!

 

[MesquiteMan]

Paypal charges a 1% Cross Border premium for all payments received from out of the country regardless of the currency paid in. If the vendor allows payment in anything other than US dollars, then there is a currency conversion fee that is charged to the seller. Most of us only accept payment in US dollars so the buyer has to pay any currency conversion fees.

Here is a really good Paypal fees calculator that I use: PayPal Fee Calculator | SaleCalc.com

 

[lorbay]

Most shopping carts will NOT let you have the option to hold the order than let the customer pick a shipping method. I have chargeing a flat rate no matter the size and absorb any overage most customers are very happy, if the flat rate is much higher refund the overage. I'm in the mist of developing a new site and I'll ask if there could be shipping options that the customer can pick.

I know they won't that's why I said it might involve a separate invoice and payment for shipping.

The problem with the flat rate is where the weight goes over 4 pounds or $400.00 value or the volume becomes too much for a small flat rate box - the shipping then takes a huge jump when you need to go to a medium Flat Rate Box. I will be talking to my store to see what we can do to put an order on hold.


For me, I either find a way to handle this or stop making international shipments.

And thats why I voted #2

Lin.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

Paypal charges a 1% Cross Border premium for all payments received from out of the country regardless of the currency paid in. If the vendor allows payment in anything other than US dollars, then there is a currency conversion fee that is charged to the seller. Most of us only accept payment in US dollars so the buyer has to pay any currency conversion fees.

Here is a really good Paypal fees calculator that I use: PayPal Fee Calculator | SaleCalc.com

I thought it was just the buyer who took it for the team on Paypal - didn't realize they charged the seller too - for no reason, really...

Paypal seems like a bit of a racket!

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Admittedly 99% of my orders are not in the 10 pound range so that could make a difference but I do ship to Russia, Georgia and some African countries often and never had to take to the P.O. using a third party postage supplier Endicia.

Try Russia.

The drop down on USPS says it is available, then fill out the form and it tells you to go to the Post Office to purchase postage.

Edit in: There is a list of about 30 countries that Dawn located for me. Most of Africa, much of Russian Federation, Cambodia.

Also recall our shipments are frequently 10 pounds or more, not two pens.

 

[rixstix]

The problem with the flat rate is where the weight goes over 4 pounds or $400.00 value or the volume becomes too much for a small flat rate box - the shipping then takes a huge jump when you need to go to a medium Flat Rate Box

Did you know that the Priority Mail 0-1096L Large Video box can be used for International and ships for the Small Flat Rate International fee? There's quite a bit more volume available when the O-1096L box is used.

The reason for the significant price increase on Jan 27 is that USPS International classes were moved into a category that competes with UPS and Fedex which also allows the USPS more flexibility in pricing than they have in pricing correspondence class mail.

 

[Smitty37]

Admittedly 99% of my orders are not in the 10 pound range so that could make a difference but I do ship to Russia, Georgia and some African countries often and never had to take to the P.O. using a third party postage supplier Endicia.

Try Russia.

The drop down on USPS says it is available, then fill out the form and it tells you to go to the Post Office to purchase postage.

Edit in: There is a list of about 30 countries that Dawn located for me. Most of Africa, much of Russian Federation, Cambodia.

Also recall our shipments are frequently 10 pounds or more, not two pens.

Roy might be using carrier pickup, I do - if you do, most things that say "go to the post office" are considered "handed" to an employee when the carrier takes them.

Strange as it seems Endicia does allow you to print some labels that the USPS website does not, but I never seem able to print APO labels there.

Someone mentioned dropping them in any blue box -- read the notifications -- some items can't be dropped in them.

 

[Smitty37]

Paypal charges a 1% Cross Border premium for all payments received from out of the country regardless of the currency paid in. If the vendor allows payment in anything other than US dollars, then there is a currency conversion fee that is charged to the seller. Most of us only accept payment in US dollars so the buyer has to pay any currency conversion fees.

Here is a really good Paypal fees calculator that I use: PayPal Fee Calculator | SaleCalc.com

I thought it was just the buyer who took it for the team on Paypal - didn't realize they charged the seller too - for no reason, really...

Paypal seems like a bit of a racket!

The General Rule is the receiver of the funds takes the hit all the time. The buyer only gets nailed for out of country --- If you get a lot of refunds and do a lot of purchasing from the USA you might look into keeping some funds in USD and when you have enough pay with them and avoid the conversion. I think PayPal will let you do that.

 

[Smitty37]

The problem with the flat rate is where the weight goes over 4 pounds or $400.00 value or the volume becomes too much for a small flat rate box - the shipping then takes a huge jump when you need to go to a medium Flat Rate Box

Did you know that the Priority Mail 0-1096L Large Video box can be used for International and ships for the Small Flat Rate International fee? There's quite a bit more volume available when the O-1096L box is used.

The reason for the significant price increase on Jan 27 is that USPS International classes were moved into a category that competes with UPS and Fedex which also allows the USPS more flexibility in pricing than they have in pricing correspondence class mail.

No I didn't know that - do you know where that is published.

 

[Smitty37]

As my cart is right now, I can't setup #3. There is one possible way to do it but I don't know if it will work. I'm going to look into it. In the mean time I'm going with Charging a flat rate and refunding excess charges.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

As my cart is right now, I can't setup #3. There is one possible way to do it but I don't know if it will work. I'm going to look into it. In the mean time I'm going with Charging a flat rate and refunding excess charges.

My concern with that is that it may affect your sales. most of us will not buy ten kits with 20 shipping, when it'll be cheaper elsewhere, not knowing how much may be refunded

Just an observation...

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Admittedly 99% of my orders are not in the 10 pound range so that could make a difference but I do ship to Russia, Georgia and some African countries often and never had to take to the P.O. using a third party postage supplier Endicia.

Try Russia.

The drop down on USPS says it is available, then fill out the form and it tells you to go to the Post Office to purchase postage.

Edit in: There is a list of about 30 countries that Dawn located for me. Most of Africa, much of Russian Federation, Cambodia.

Also recall our shipments are frequently 10 pounds or more, not two pens.

Roy might be using carrier pickup, I do - if you do, most things that say "go to the post office" are considered "handed" to an employee when the carrier takes them.

Strange as it seems Endicia does allow you to print some labels that the USPS website does not, but I never seem able to print APO labels there.

Someone mentioned dropping them in any blue box -- read the notifications -- some items can't be dropped in them.

I've made arrangements with the local postmaster to have a postal truck pick up packages daily at around 2PM every day so maybe that and Edicia printing lables that can't be printed on the USPS site account for me not having to personaly stand in line. Talk to your local postmaster about a daily pick-up or ask your post man.

 

[Smitty37]

Restrictions

This is from the USPS website:

Any mailpiece, including mail destined to APO/FPO/DPO addresses, with a customs declaration form that was not completed and submitted online (e.g., using Click-N-Ship®) must be presented by the customer to an employee at a retail service counter at a Post Office™ location. In addition, any mailpiece that requires a customs declaration form and bears postage stamps must also be presented by the customer to an employee at a retail service counter at a Post Office location.

 

[rixstix]

Did you know that the Priority Mail 0-1096L Large Video box can be used for International and ships for the Small Flat Rate International fee? There's quite a bit more volume available when the O-1096L box is used.

Here's a screen snippet but of the entire document found in the link that follows....

If your label printing software does not provide an option for a label specific to the O-1096L/Large Video box, you are allowed to print a regular small flatrate label and affix to the package per USPS based on the referenced document. Been doing that for years with Stamps.com since they didn't have an O-1096L specific mailing class.

232 Eligibility

 

[rixstix]

"International mailpieces, including mail destined to APO/FPO/DPO addresses, with a customs declaration form that was not completed and submitted online (e.g., using Click-N-Ship®) must be presented by the customer to an employee at a retail service counter at a Post Office location." I was assuming that everyone is submitting their customs forms online; not handwritten.

This is from the USPS website:

Any mailpiece, including mail destined to APO/FPO/DPO addresses, with a customs declaration form that was not completed and submitted online (e.g., using Click-N-Ship®) must be presented by the customer to an employee at a retail service counter at a Post Office™ location. In addition, any mailpiece that requires a customs declaration form and bears postage stamps must also be presented by the customer to an employee at a retail service counter at a Post Office location.

I don't see any difference in the 2 statements. If you print your label online and you print your customs form online, you can drop the package in any BlueBox or any other mail receptacle. The only thing that cannot be placed in a BlueBox is packages that use postage STAMPS.

 

[Smitty37]

Did you know that the Priority Mail 0-1096L Large Video box can be used for International and ships for the Small Flat Rate International fee? There's quite a bit more volume available when the O-1096L box is used.

Here's a screen snippet but of the entire document found in the link that follows....

If your label printing software does not provide an option for a label specific to the O-1096L/Large Video box, you are allowed to print a regular small flatrate label and affix to the package per USPS based on the referenced document. Been doing that for years with Stamps.com since they didn't have an O-1096L specific mailing class.

232 Eligibility

Thank you that is good information...I even have some of the boxes.

 

[rixstix]

Our cart currently offers customers choice of

• First Class
• Priority SM FR
• Priority O-1096L
• Priority Regional FR Box A
• Priority MED FR
• Express FR envelope
• Fedex ground
• Fedex economy
• Fedex 2 day

USPS options are automatically removed from being offered to customers when the volume of the package is too small to contain the items purchased or weight limit is exceeded. OR when international value is exceeded.

Quotes are obtained realtime from the USPS servers and Fedex servers and automatically include insurance.

 

[Smitty37]

As my cart is right now, I can't setup #3. There is one possible way to do it but I don't know if it will work. I'm going to look into it. In the mean time I'm going with Charging a flat rate and refunding excess charges.

My concern with that is that it may affect your sales. most of us will not buy ten kits with 20 shipping, when it'll be cheaper elsewhere, not knowing how much may be refunded

Just an observation...

That could happen, but there's nothing I can do about it. There are limits as to what my shopping cart will allow - I can't have both fixed rate (priority mail) and weight based (first class mail) to the same country.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

As my cart is right now, I can't setup #3. There is one possible way to do it but I don't know if it will work. I'm going to look into it. In the mean time I'm going with Charging a flat rate and refunding excess charges.

My concern with that is that it may affect your sales. most of us will not buy ten kits with 20 shipping, when it'll be cheaper elsewhere, not knowing how much may be refunded

Just an observation...

That could happen, but there's nothing I can do about it. There are limits as to what my shopping cart will allow - I can't have both fixed rate (priority mail) and weight based (first class mail) to the same country.

As an option, then, would the following scenario help you?:
Base your shopping cart on weight - i.e. first class mail
Give an opt-out for purchasing a medium or large flat rate box, in which shipping would be pre-set to zero, and the shipping would appear as an item in the invoice - or would that affect your accounting?

I'm not sure how often you ship first class as compared to flat-rate, but thought it might help sales to have both options on your site.

 

[Smitty37]

As my cart is right now, I can't setup #3. There is one possible way to do it but I don't know if it will work. I'm going to look into it. In the mean time I'm going with Charging a flat rate and refunding excess charges.

My concern with that is that it may affect your sales. most of us will not buy ten kits with 20 shipping, when it'll be cheaper elsewhere, not knowing how much may be refunded

Just an observation...

That could happen, but there's nothing I can do about it. There are limits as to what my shopping cart will allow - I can't have both fixed rate (priority mail) and weight based (first class mail) to the same country.

As an option, then, would the following scenario help you?:
Base your shopping cart on weight - i.e. first class mail
Give an opt-out for purchasing a medium or large flat rate box, in which shipping would be pre-set to zero, and the shipping would appear as an item in the invoice - or would that affect your accounting?

I'm not sure how often you ship first class as compared to flat-rate, but thought it might help sales to have both options on your site.

I would have fits trying to do my taxes - shipping would then be mingled with sales....