Would you drill a 37/64" hole in a 5/8" blank?

[Daniel]

And if you did would you choose a Blank from Rarest Woods to do it with?

Well I did. I posted a bit of a teaser on another thread this morning. and got a surprising reaction in the form of PM's. I decided to include everyone in the suspense.

for now I will just say I not only did it. I did it twice, yes twice both on Rarest wood Huanguali blanks. and I fully intend to do it again on an even more expensive Huanguali blank.

I will not have the first two fully done for another day or three but will add details and photos of how I went about it. I am close enough that I have no doubt I will get it done.

in the mean time use the wait to share your story of the most nail biting moments you have had in the shop.

Before you ask, Why did I choose Huanguali to try this on. well because it is Huanguali that I need to drill. and different woods act differently.

 

[marcruby]

I only went as high as 15/32's. You've got more nerve than I do.

Marc

 

[Daniel]

just to help everyone with a visual 5/8" translates to 40/64" this leaving only 3/64" of wood before the bit meets air. and you have to split this in half because half of that thickness is needed for each side of the hole. I have the hole to 9/16"(36/64) right now in both pieces. 1/64 does not seem like much until you look at blank thicknesses that look like paper. I had to give up because I do not have a bit I can hold on my lathe. I'm waiting for a larger drill chuck to arrive. so I am not being needlessly cruel with the waiting thing.

 

[mrcook4570]

I assume you are drilling for the cap of a gent/statesman/emperor. If so, I measured the hardware at 0.655" diameter, which is larger than the 5/8" (0.625") blank.

 

[Dario]

I would not...but IF I will ever do it its is because the wood is very expensive or rare (Huanguali blanks fits the bill).

What I would do is cast it in resin and make it much bigger to reduce the risk of a blow-out. For those who don't have the casting capability...gluing thin slabs with epoxy all around may work too. JMHO.

Oh yeah, I agree with Marc... you Daniel got more nerve than I.

 

[Daniel]

Stan, I will have to actually measure the blanks as I suspect it is actually between 5/8 and 3/4 I know it is less than 3/4 because I turned it round to 3/4 and still have some original sides showing. but I am pretty sure that it is not a true 5/8 either. That is probably cheating cause at this point anything counts. It will make an emperor pen I know but there will not be a lot of turning left to do when I finally get the tube in it.

 

[sbell111]

Note to self: bribe Daniel to drill all impossibly large holes.

 

[Daniel]

Dario, you are very much on the same train of thought I followed. as you will see when i do post how I did it. you would encase it in acrylic. i did it with steel. but you are exactly right there is not way you could do this without supporting the blank from the outside in some fashion.
I will be going home in about an hour. I promise I will take photos and post the details as soon as I can after that. I have one threat that the person is going to have to have surgery if I don't post some pictures. internal organs are giving out, lol. I find fun in the strangest places.

 

[Daniel]

By the way, Nerve/ Insanity, they can be hard to distinguish depending on how the insanity reveals itself. I only say that cause all my wife keep muttering is "you are crazy" sort of holding her head down and shacking it back and forth slowly.

 

[Daniel]

To begin I will give a description of Huanguali so that people have some idea of what sort of material is being dealt with. It is very hard, and very tight grain solid material. think Mountain mahogany, Ipe, or Ironwood. it is a dry wood so oily wood issues do not come into play.

next in order to do this you do not want to waste any room at all due to starting out off center. after cutting the blank to length, I used a center finding ruler and pencil to locate the center of the blank, since blanks are not always perfectly square I am in the habit of placing them in the center gauge from all 4 corners if there is any difference in any two marks the center is between them. having located the center as carefully as possible I then used a small center drill with just my fingers to put a small 60 degree divot in the end of the blank for the live center of my lathe to fit into and get a good solid purchase. you do not want the blanks to move once it is turning even a little bit. Mounting the blank on the lathe between a 4 jaw scroll chuck and the live center i turned it round only enough for a 3/4" open end wrench to slip over it. i turned the entire length of the blank round except the small portion that was being held in the scroll chuck. I now have a blank that is rounded for the most part to 3/4 inch. there where still flat sides to the blank as well but they where not very much of the overall outer surface. next the drilling will begin but I have to leave. will be back soon with more.

 

[Russianwolf]

I would not...but IF I will ever do it its is because the wood is very expensive or rare (Huanguali blanks fits the bill).

What I would do is cast it in resin and make it much bigger to reduce the risk of a blow-out. For those who don't have the casting capability...gluing thin slabs with epoxy all around may work too. JMHO.

Oh yeah, I agree with Marc... you Daniel got more nerve than I.

Or the Eagle trick. wrap it in twine and soak with CA such that the twine will provide the support.

 

[pssherman]

IIRC, Eagle showed a technique for providing support when a blowout is likely. He wrapped the blank with twine and soaked it with CA. This provides equal support on all sides, the twine fits any size blank (no need to cut wood strips to the correct size), and the twine is easily turned off when the blank is mounted on the lathe.

 

[Dario]

Or the Eagle trick. wrap it in twine and soak with CA such that the twine will provide the support.

Yep, anything that will reinforce the walls will work.

Couple that with the lathe drilling as shown by jrc (Jim) and you got it made.

 

[Daniel]

I know somebody has had to think. "So you are saying that to drill a great big hole in a itty bitty blank, you start by making the blanks even smaller?" Well yeah I guess that is what I am saying. cept in this case the blank did not so much get smaller as it just lost it's corners.

Let step back for a second and look at the reasoning behind this.
First it was never considerd that this blank all by itself coudl withstand being drilled to such an extreme. so the plan had to include some way of reinforcing the blank. Dario and now a coupel of others have mentioned various ways of reinforcing. this reinforcement thoug h does not remove the fact that the drilling still has to be dead on center because the purdy wood you want to end up with is still really really small and in the middle of whatever you support it with. not that other methods could not manage this. My method was selected with this in mind and for the tools that I have.for a dead on centered hole I only have one tool i will trust. my metal lathe. and to hold the blanks and reinforce it at the same time. I have a collet chuck. so what I have done in turning the blanks to 3/4 in dia is made it a snug fit for my largest collet.
In effect i can now tightly wrap the blank in steel and mount it to be drilled with the best method I have available. I still took some extra steps to insure that the hole was centered and straight. I was also concerned that there would be tear out from the drill bit. It may have been a bit overkill but I first drilled with a 1/4" inch bit, then a 3/8", 1/2" and finally a 9/16". I used the 9/16 because it is the larges bit that i could fit in my 1/2" drill chuck. I am now waiting on a 5/8" chuck to arrive so i can finish up with the last little bit of drilling. The walls of the blank are becoming so thin at this point that I am not sure that drilling with the 9/16 was not a good or even necessary step. there is not a lot left of it now. at most the thickest portions are around 5/64" thick and I still have to remove 1/64" this will be more like a light scraping and I do not have much concern that it will not work. I need to get a picture that shows just how close everything comes to not fitting. having been off by even a hair would have meant failure for portions of this blank.

By the way. I ordered one grade A blank from Dave and he made me a deal for two extra lower grade blanks just for the purpose of practicing this. This does not cancel the fact that if I am successful these will end up being pens worth $600 or more. and trust me that thought has very much been on my mind.
let me get a picture or two and see if I can show it compared to the bushing etc. I think that will be the best way to show how little room there was to make mistakes.

 

[Daniel]

I added the photo to the first post. Keep in mind that the bushing is setting in an untubed hole so the clearance is even smaller than it shows in the photo. but it does clear. I'm thinking I can almost finish this one up with a bit of sandpaper. what you all think?

 

[workinforwood]

Oh, that's tons of room to spare. This was far more scarey. Not only is the hole much closer to the edges, but the wood being drilled is laminated to other woods which makes it much weaker than a solid blank. and then to top it off even more, it doesn't go into a vise too good this way. On my first attempt, the legs spun around and a foot broke off. Second time around I nudged it in and then prayed it was standing straight in the vise. I was quite lucky to not have to rebuild the entire lower section.

 

[Daniel]

Jeff, It would take a better drill press than I own to do that one.

 

[wolftat]

I always figured that if the bushing can fit on the end of the blank, the drill will go through it without a problem. Then again, I have been known to do some questionable things in my life. You have got to take a chance sometimes, the end results can be well worth it.

 

[Russianwolf]

You know, even if the blank were smaller than the bushing, as long as it's at least a couple mm larger than the drill bit, you can make it work.

See, if you turn the blank round, sand it fairly good (400 grit or so) and it's still larger than the drill bit. You can cast the blank in acrylic/aluminite. Drill the hole as close to centered as possible, leaving the tiniest bit of wood and mostly acrylic. Then when you turn it, all you'll be turning is acrylic. Polish it up and it should be a great looking pen.

I believe a couple people have used a similar technique when they've overturned the blank (accidentally or on purpose to us the technique as the final finish).

 

[Daniel]

I am still on the search for just how to finish these if I use any at all. Not sure I want to go with CA. you can see a little bit on the left blank just how nice this wood is turning out to be. there is a purple cast to a lot of it. I'm thinking of looking for a more traditional type of finish. not sure. What i do not want to do is lower the value of the pen by going with a quick and simple finish.

 

[Tn-Steve]

My hat's off to you Daniel. I would be too afraid to even think about turning a piece of wood like that, much less trying to drill it with absolutely NO margin to spare. You have huge skills, and I, like everyone else here I'm sure, are dying to see the pens.

Steve

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

Daniel, I just e-mailed you

 

[Daniel]

well my chuck did not get here today. so 20 or 30 of you come on over tomorrow, we will all have a little get together with the mail man and get this show back on the road. what say you?
k well breakfast is on Oklahoman according to my e-mail so get here early.
Night it has been fun.

 

[OKLAHOMAN]

NO! NO! I said I'll be BY for breakfast not BUY breakfast:biggrin::wink:

well my chuck did not get here today. so 20 or 30 of you come on over tomorrow, we will all have a little get together with the mail man and get this show back on the road. what say you?
k well breakfast is on Oklahoman according to my e-mail so get here early.
Night it has been fun.

 

[Rarest wood]

if ida know it would have caused this much trouble i would have sent you a bigger blank:biggrin: seriously ime going to be getting some new material in the next week or so and will try to cut it larger daniel your giving me a heart attack:doctor:

 

[Daniel]

now look what you did Roy, nobody showed up. didn't get my chuck today either. this is going to get serious if it is not here in the next couple of days. it is a three day weekend!

 

[Robert Taylor]

i'm wondering that since you have a metal lathe. why don't you turn the shank of the drill so that it will fit in the chuck that you already have?

 

[NewLondon88]

Would you drill a 37/64" hole in a 5/8" blank?
And if you did would you choose a Blank from Rarest Woods to do it with?

I just want to know how you can sit comfortably with balls that big.. :tongue:

 

[amosfella]

I have drilled african blackwood slightly smaller than .625 square with a 37/64 drill bit. It was fine. I think the walls were about .4 of an inch thick.

 

[Dario]

I have drilled african blackwood slightly smaller than .625 square with a 37/64 drill bit. It was fine. I think the walls were about .4 of an inch thick.

Please verify that. :wink:

 

[Pen Maker]

Would you drill a 37/64" hole in a 5/8" blank?


I would but only if my layout man called for it... On my own, never! Never, Never, Never.


(i'd ask him for you, but, he laid out today.)

 

[amosfella]

Please verify that. :wink:

I will try to get photos in the next week.....

 

[Daniel]

My chuck did not come today either, so I tracked it. it is in California. so it has gone from Ohio to California and just passed right by me. Hello you have to pass through Reno to get to Sacramento...boneheads.