Why so many coats of CA

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Hookset

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I am new to all of this, and have been here reading for several days, and it seems to me everyone that use CA, puts on x number of thin and y number of medium. Is that many coats necessary?
My kit came with high friction polish so I would sand, clean, and polish the blanks; then I would apply a couple of thin coats of CA to seal the polish.
Please educate me.
Thanks!
 
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budnder

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I think there's a couple of factors here. When I put CA on I do so with a dry paper towel, so undoubtedly, much of the "coat" ends up on the paper towel. Also, after I put a few coats on, I sand it smooth, so I'm taking away much of what I put on. So I have to do that a couple of times to end up with a smooth solid coat that has enough thickness for me to polish without breaking through.

Normally, I do three coats of thin and then three coats of medium. Then sand t smooth with 400 and then 600 grit. Then I repeat both of those steps again before polishing. So that's a total of 12 coats, if you add them all up. It only takes a minute or two to do the CA coats - it's the sanding that takes a bit more time.

I've experimented with using a plastic applicator (aka pen kit bag) to put the CA on, but find that it goes on too ripply that way, which requires more sanding to smooth out. I've tried fewer coats, but then had it be too thin and I ended up with dull spots when I polished where the underlying surface would be breached.
 

MRDucks2

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I have no technical reason for 8 coats. I do 4 coats of thin followed by 4 coats of medium simply because that's how many I can do on one folded up piece of paper towel for each type. Early on I did several with 1 or 2 coats of medium only, sometimes by itself, sometimes with some Pens Plus over the top. I seem to be getting pretty consistent results with what I do now.


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WriteON

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I use 2-3 coats (sand in-between)...move to EEE and top that off with carnauba. I'm happy with the results.

I would suggest experiment...there are no rules.
 

JimB

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If you are happy with 2 coats then you are done. However, I would suggest experimenting with more coats to see how it looks. I only use thin CA for finishes and usually apply between 7 and 10 coats, sometimes more. I stop when I like the way it looks and I know I will not go through the finish with any sanding or polishing I do.
 

leehljp

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I don't count the coats. I put on for thickness and use caliper to measure and make it match with the fittings. If one wants the pen to feel smooth from the turned blank to the nib or center band, it is not about how many coats you put on, it is about building up so that you can sand down to a perfect transition from clip end or center band or nib. The "number" of coats are irrelevant if you want a perfect fit and shiny finish.

Don't you just hate it when someone upsets the apple cart! :biggrin:
 
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I don't count the coats. I put on for thickness and use caliper to measure and make it match with the fittings. If one wants the pen to feel smooth from the turned blank to the nib or center band, it is not about how many coats you put on, it is about building up so that you can sand down to a perfect transition from clip end or center band or nib. The "number" of coats are irrelevant if you want a perfect fit and shiny finish.

Don't you just hate it when someone upsets the apple cart! :biggrin:

This right here. After reading how Mr leehljp did it this way several months back, I actually started turning my barrels about .002 under then build up with CA and sand back down. When I get to .002 over I know it's time to move to higher grits then polish. I've gotten several pens that measure +/- .000 by my calipers, something I never thought I could do, and the depth of shine is amazing. In fact, I'm not happy if I'm off by any more than .001 these days. It still takes me a bit of time, but the results are worth every second spent.

So, thanks leehljp, your method has made me a penmaker!
 

budnder

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Are you using bushings when you under turn? Just wondering if you ditch the bushings when you get close in your process.
 

tomas

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I am new to all of this, and have been here reading for several days, and it seems to me everyone that use CA, puts on x number of thin and y number of medium. Is that many coats necessary?
My kit came with high friction polish so I would sand, clean, and polish the blanks; then I would apply a couple of thin coats of CA to seal the polish.
Please educate me.
Thanks!

When I first started turning pens, I used Carnuba wax and buffed it with a paper towel. I soon discovered that it didn't last very long. I watched a tutorial on how to apply 20 coats of CA and was extremely pleased with the results. I have settled on 16 coats of medium CA applied at low speed with spritzes of Accelerator in between. I the sand laterally at high speed with wet Micro Mesh going through all 9 colors (grits). I have found this gives me great depth, wetness, and chatoyance. I has seen some of my pens that have been in constant use for 3-4 years and still look perfect.

Tomas
 

leehljp

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Are you using bushings when you under turn? Just wondering if you ditch the bushings when you get close in your process.

Yes, you are right in your "wondering". :)

First, I turn between centers. My sizing is done by calipers, not the bushings. IF one turns to size by bushings, then the bushings must be considered "consumables" as you will sand down the size or nick it with the scraper/skew and after 10 to 30 blanks, the bushing will be undersize.

I use bushings to hold the blank until it is round and then turn until it is close to the bushing size. At this point I remove the bushing, and rely on the calipers to get to where I want it to be in size. I do turn under size by .002 or .003 and build up CA until it is +.003 to +.005 and sand down for a smooth finish and even transition to the nib-cb-finial/clip end.

BTW, the "undersize" figure is arrived at by measuring the nib end, center band and finial/clip end, I write these down and then measure the blank as I turn - to fit. Then build back up.
 
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randyrls

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To join the thread; There isn't any set technique with CA, everyone has a slightly different technique.

My learning curve involved turning the blank down just round, not to finished size. Apply finish to the blank, then sand or turn off half the blank and vary the technique on that half of the blank. Better or worse? Sand or turn off the worse side and vary technique again. After twenty of so iterations, you learn just how to apply the finish you want. then complete the pen.

Lee's Comment on calipers is spot on. Never trust bushings! A cheap digital caliper is all you need. The caliper is the gold standard. Put the caliper on the fitting (NOT BLANK) and press the "Zero" button on the caliper. Now put the caliper on the edge of the blank. I aim for -.000 / +.003 on the blank. YMMV
 
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PenPal

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Hackberry two coats CA no sanding after each coat. Works for me. Zebra Wood one coat CA no sanding after.

Peter.
 

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I've found that in the world of woodworking, finishing is like some sort of dark art that very few truly understand. For instance, the assumption that more is better... Thick finishes can be more prone to cracking in many cases. I'd finish every pen with my hvlp gun and poly if it efficient but it's not. So, I ditched the paper towel applicator years ago in favor of a gloved finger to get more CA on the pen. No more than 5 coats and it's plenty glossy.
 

Pierre---

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Four heavy coats can do nearly the same as twenty thin ones.
I would say that the number of coats is not the only important factor, others are what you want to obtain (high gloss, satin, sealing), and the thickness of your coats, which depends of the pressure you use to apply CA. That's why it is very variable among turners.


I like fine coats to avoid sanding too long, so I have a heavy finger, and I try to make my coats as flat and smooth as possible. I need fifteen coats at least to get a deep high gloss finish without sanding through.

Others are happy with very thick rough coats with a light finger: a friend of mine uses only four heavy coats and have the same result I can obtain, after a a good sanding time before polishing.

If you only want to seal the grain before applying another finish, one or two coats are enough.
 
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MPVic

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Hamilton, ON, Canada
I don't count the coats. I put on for thickness and use caliper to measure and make it match with the fittings. If one wants the pen to feel smooth from the turned blank to the nib or center band, it is not about how many coats you put on, it is about building up so that you can sand down to a perfect transition from clip end or center band or nib. The "number" of coats are irrelevant if you want a perfect fit and shiny finish.

Don't you just hate it when someone upsets the apple cart! :biggrin:

Hank: thanks for putting into words what I've been trying to learn the last 8 months - it helps greatly so I don't get hung up on "numbers".
 

RogerC

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Jan 30, 2017
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Oklahoma
Another reason is wood type. If you're using something with deep pores like ash, oak, etc, if you want a completely smooth barrel, you need to put on enough coats to fill the pores.

I also turn between centers using the bushings to get me close. Once I'm slightly oversized, I removed the bushings and continue turning until I'm where I want to be, reinserting the bushings to check size (I think I'll start using my calipers after reading Lee's process. It seems to make more sense.)

I sand with 220 and 320, then apply 3 - 5 coats of thin CA depending on the wood/pores. I level with 1000 or 1500 grit (depending on severity of ridges) and then apply 3 more coats. Final level with 1500 grit and move on to 3200, 3600, 4000, 6000, 8000, 12000 micromesh. Sometimes I finish up with polish, sometimes I don't.
 

fernhills

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Jan 22, 2007
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Hellertown, PA, USA.
I do not use , every time, paper towels. I started using the packing material you find in your electronics. The smooth side. The paper towels dry the c/a to quick and it gets hard.With the packing material there is no chemical reaction and it stays wet, and you can smooth the c/a out. You can use it over a few times, i am still working on some i got a year ago or more. Carl
 
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