Where does Bethlehem Olive Wood Come From?

[rjwolfe3]

I didnt read the 5 pages because the answer is simple to me. If the tree the branch was harvested from was sitting in the soil of The Holy Land, then it's where the blank is from.

Skye, I love your answer!

 

[Smitty37]

Blank

Here is the customs paperwork of the BOW I am getting.
I have to take the seller word on this and it is what I am doing for a while until proved otherwise. I have a couple of thousand of these blanks in stock and mainly using it for myself/kits.

Sure it only proofs of where it comes from but that puts me in the clear.

The problem is not only the BOW and where BOW comes from but there are so many ways that sellers here and all over the Internet deceive people by using lingo like ( Handpicked, Private Stash, Private source, Best I Have ever seen, the list goes on and on) just to triple the price and make people believe it is the best or better that what it really is.
That to me is just as bad as.

Since we talk about Jerusalem , Shall those with no sins throw the stones.

The country of origin has been left blank on your item, but then it isn't signed either, and hasn't signed the declaration that it doesn't contain hazerdous or banned substances. In addition, it doesn't say what kind of blanks they are....not much help to prove where your olivewood blanks originated.

It is actually hard to believe how lax customs in in some respects I notice the same kind of thing on my shipments from China. I think our shipments are so small that they call them commercial samples and the paperwork is only about half completed.

 

[bitshird]

Chip (Padre), "due diligence" sounds very good. But, in good conscience, let's call it "cheap". I wanted to find a source that would eliminate the "middlemen" and put the money in someone's hands that could USE it. So, I went through a little more work than "taking the guy everyone knows" in Israel--he's already got enough business.

But I still like my mental picture better than the reality you paint---can I keep mine and add a few random military weapons???:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Sounds like an "existence" not a "life". I hope the money I spent makes this family's life a little brighter.

Yeah, the "real" truth comes out. Ed wants a supplier that can ship BOW wrapped around an Israeli AK47:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Nah AK's are a bit hard to handle in a crowd, to much muzzle rize. I think he want's a Desert Eagle or an Uzi, you could nearly stuff a blank in the muzzle of a 50 Cal. D.E. at least for a slimline, and carry an Uzi under a jacket.

 

[Padre]

APOLOGY:
I did not start this thread to discredit anyone or call in to question anyone's business. I merely was wondering what others have heard about BOW/JOW.

I am sorry if this thread has been misconstrued as an attack on anyone or anyone's business.

 

[robutacion]

I didnt read the 5 pages because the answer is simple to me. If the tree the branch was harvested from was sitting in the soil of The Holy Land, then it's where the blank is from.

Hi Skye,

I just had to interrupt my break, because your comment reflects the true reason of my claim...!

As simplistic and sensible your thoughts are of the issue, the reality and facts are very different, a very large percentage of what people are buying and paying for as, pen blanks from trees or branches harvested from sitting in the soil of the Holy Land, did in fact come from thousands of miles away and on the other side of the world, and that is the whole point, 95% of it the only time it set in Holy Land was when the containers were dropped at the ship yards in Israel or other near by...!

Why does't some of our big imports, send some of the blanks received from their Israeli suppliers, to a lab for testing...! Any lab with the right equipment and expertise in wood identification, will very quickly(ish) but costly, determine many aspects of that sample and one of which would determine who is right, are the detailed brake down of the type of soils, nutrients, minerals, etc., the trees from where the wood (blanks) come from could have grown...! every one of these details are undoubtedly very different from Israel (Jerusalem/Bethlehem) and places like Italy and possibly other European locations.

Everyone of the Israeli suppliers claim in their web sites and certificates, etc., state/claim that all comes from the regular yearly trimming/pruning's the trees require to their maximum oil yield production, while these trims are a must, I will show everyone what they are, what they look like, and how much usable wood they produce. This will be part of my repeated (I've done this before, elsewhere, some time ago) attempt to educate everyone about what the Olive tree. You will be amazed how quickly, even those that know little about trees and certainly nothing about the Olive tree, will come to the realization that the trims claims in they sites are not physically possible to account for the wood sold (grain size/shape and growth rings, colour and others) as BOW from trimmings and certainly will demonstrate the very small amount of wood usable for pen blanks production. Consider also that 99.90% of the trimmings available yearly, is done by the owners of the "few trees left" and part if not all make a living at making craft pieces using that same wood they collected from their own trimmings or from close relatives that own Olive trees, from years back, as the fresh/green branches are stored under ground in cool chambers where the wood dry slow in a very constant 20 to 25 degrees C.
Some will wait up to 9 years before they bring it up for processing but recently, with the greater limitation on trimmings due to reduced number of Olive trees in existence, they have had to resort on stored piles that aren't more than 2-3 years old and that has created lots of problems as some of their hand crafted pieces crack while being worked. Most get repaired some are reused for smaller crafted pieces...! In fact, since Italian quality Olive wood started to become easily available in they own country (Israel) some of these shops are using this wood for part of their own works, as the demand for these items has increased significantly, these last decade or so.

If the only way for some of you to fully understand what I'm talking about, is to have me to educate you on the issue of Olive Trees, that's fine by me. I look forwards to see what your opinions are after I'm done...!:wink::biggrin:

These are some of the available web sites and videos dedicated specifically to Olive Trees issues, have a good look around and spend the time watching these videos, this first series are all in a language that we all can understand!

*- http://www.growquest.com/Fruit%20trees%20-%20better%20plant/olive_tree_varieties.htm

*- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHYA11NYIes&feature=player_embedded

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyvMm9LW2-4

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOxFX4JtXOo&feature=related

Now gets go directly to Holy Land...!

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrbMP9hRNeo

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-HXm_cx-LU&feature=related

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcpYuPxjJHw&feature=related

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xEApSnFPIA&feature=related

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LcL6nhua6hs

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjsDjPvsN8&feature=related

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbI2ZQeDtZ0

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaRQoP29WgY&feature=related

*-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCf7unJ1FAM

There are many other videos available and a search on the subject would produce many more results. Take particular attention to size of wood that result from pruning, also look at the size of the average tree growing in Israel particularly those in Jerusalem and Bethlehem, they very small/young compared with the few that are left of considerable age, all under special observation and used as the remaining "symbols" of times long gone...!

Just stop and think for a minute or two, how much workable wood is really there...!

Cheers
George

 

[robutacion]

APOLOGY:
I did not start this thread to discredit anyone or call in to question anyone's business. I merely was wondering what others have heard about BOW/JOW.

I am sorry if this thread has been misconstrued as an attack on anyone or anyone's business.

Padre,

There is no doubt that some of our BOW suppliers, are going to get furious with this issue, and I would too, If I was told that, is a very good possibility that their BOW blanks are not BOW blanks in the true sense of what they should be.

Is also inevitable that those with a reasonable amount invested in this product, will start to get concerned about that possibility, after all when they start to get the facts, is obvious that they will have some questions of their own...!

The question is, have they ever though that a country with the difficulties and tribulations they have been trough for so long, could maintain and increase the production of a product that has been, if not destroyed totally, has been reduced well under of what their own internal needs require...??? If you haven't thought of that, don't you thing that would be time to give it some consideration and in many cases understand why so many of the original Israeli BOW suppliers found themselves without the (their own) product to sell, after a reputation and business was established...???

The need to keep their source of revenue alive, they had to do something, sourcing identical product from elsewhere was the only option for many of them. The situation got worse when the "replenishment" of their raw material has become easily obtainable and affordable for them to continue their business but, this certain influx of imported Olive wood, has attracted many other individuals that all of a certain could get into the business of selling Holy wood to the world, without any difficulties, after all the monopoly of the local Holy wood was taken by a few older crafts people that has had that monopoly for generations, not allowing any new comers to get involved but now, the situation was totally different and they had as much opportunity to the imported and abundant Olive wood as anyone else.

I honestly wouldn't expect most of those older suppliers of BOW from the Holy Land to give up, or tell to the world that the local stock has been exhausted, so the wood was imported...! that would be the end of their business as it stood, people expect Holy Olive wood from the Holy Land as BOW, as that is that...! Almost everyone is prepared to pay extra for the genuine product but, if the circumstances dictate that may be reasonable to question the authenticity of what they are buying/paying for at premium prices, I see no reason why they shouldn't...!

Cheers
George

 

[Padre]

APOLOGY:
I did not start this thread to discredit anyone or call in to question anyone's business. I merely was wondering what others have heard about BOW/JOW.

I am sorry if this thread has been misconstrued as an attack on anyone or anyone's business.

Padre,

There is no doubt that some of our BOW suppliers, are going to get furious with this issue, and I would too, If I was told that, is a very good possibility that their BOW blanks are not BOW blanks in the true sense of what they should be.

Is also inevitable that those with a reasonable amount invested in this product, will start to get concerned about that possibility, after all when they start to get the facts, is obvious that they will have some questions of their own...!

The question is, have they ever though that a country with the difficulties and tribulations they have been trough for so long, could maintain and increase the production of a product that has been, if not destroyed totally, has been reduced well under of what their own internal needs require...??? If you haven't thought of that, don't you thing that would be time to give it some consideration and in many cases understand why so many of the original Israeli BOW suppliers found themselves without the (their own) product to sell, after a reputation and business was established...???

The need to keep their source of revenue alive, they had to do something, sourcing identical product from elsewhere was the only option for many of them. The situation got worse when the "replenishment" of their raw material has become easily obtainable and affordable for them to continue their business but, this certain influx of imported Olive wood, has attracted many other individuals that all of a certain could get into the business of selling Holy wood to the world, without any difficulties, after all the monopoly of the local Holy wood was taken by a few older crafts people that has had that monopoly for generations, not allowing any new comers to get involved but now, the situation was totally different and they had as much opportunity to the important and abundant Olive wood as anyone else.

I honestly wouldn't expect most of those older suppliers of BOW from the Holy Land to give up, or tell to the world that the local stock has been exhausted, so the wood was imported...! that would be the end of their business as it stood, people expect Holy Olive wood from the Holy Land as BOW, as that is that...! Almost everyone is prepared to pay extra for the genuine product but, if the circumstances dictate that may be reasonable to question the authenticity of what they are buying/paying for at premium prices, I see no reason why they shouldn't...!

Cheers
George

George,
Oh my! My apology was not for the suppliers, but for the folks of IAP. If the large suppliers are misleading us, then we should know!

 

[Lawrence Witter]

re: BOW source

Padre,

Do you watch any of the many TV shows featuring the latest and greatest crime labs? Just send a sample of the wood to your local crime lab and they should be able to pinpoint where it was grown and who planted it. Just a thought, maybe not a great thought but a thought none-the-less.

Regards,

Larry

 

[Padre]

Padre,

Do you watch any of the many TV shows featuring the latest and greatest crime labs? Just send a sample of the wood to your local crime lab and they should be able to pinpoint where it was grown and who planted it. Just a thought, maybe not a great thought but a thought none-the-less.

Regards,

Larry

CSI Miami! :biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

Padre,

Do you watch any of the many TV shows featuring the latest and greatest crime labs? Just send a sample of the wood to your local crime lab and they should be able to pinpoint where it was grown and who planted it. Just a thought, maybe not a great thought but a thought none-the-less.

Regards,

Larry

And when they planted it, what the planter was wearing when the tree was planted, and how many puppies his neighbor's dog had in it's last litter.

 

[TellicoTurning]

Padre,

Do you watch any of the many TV shows featuring the latest and greatest crime labs? Just send a sample of the wood to your local crime lab and they should be able to pinpoint where it was grown and who planted it. Just a thought, maybe not a great thought but a thought none-the-less.

Regards,

Larry

CSI Miami! :biggrin:

And then we could get a great line from David Carouso...

that wood be a greater crime.:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[TellicoTurning]

Padre,

Do you watch any of the many TV shows featuring the latest and greatest crime labs? Just send a sample of the wood to your local crime lab and they should be able to pinpoint where it was grown and who planted it. Just a thought, maybe not a great thought but a thought none-the-less.

Regards,

Larry

And when they planted it, what the planter was wearing when the tree was planted, and how many puppies his neighbor's dog had in it's last litter.

and in about 15 minutes too... specially in NCIS's Abby Scuitto's lab... :biggrin::biggrin:

Who BTW is pretty cute for a forensic scientist.

 

[MesquiteMan]

Padre,

Do you watch any of the many TV shows featuring the latest and greatest crime labs? Just send a sample of the wood to your local crime lab and they should be able to pinpoint where it was grown and who planted it. Just a thought, maybe not a great thought but a thought none-the-less.

Regards,

Larry

And when they planted it, what the planter was wearing when the tree was planted, and how many puppies his neighbor's dog had in it's last litter.

and in about 15 minutes too... specially in NCIS's Abby Scuitto's lab... :biggrin::biggrin:

Who BTW is pretty cute for a forensic scientist.

With all of it being done in a dimly lit lab as well!

 

[ed4copies]

Sorry, I don't watch TV (no content except the good ADS!!)

But, what I have read is:
A "pretty cute forensic scientist" in a "dimly lit lab"

Are you guys advertising for the Playboy channel???

 

[Padre]

Padre,

Do you watch any of the many TV shows featuring the latest and greatest crime labs? Just send a sample of the wood to your local crime lab and they should be able to pinpoint where it was grown and who planted it. Just a thought, maybe not a great thought but a thought none-the-less.

Regards,

Larry

CSI Miami! :biggrin:

And then we could get a great line from David Carouso...

that wood be a greater crime.:biggrin::biggrin:

OMG!!! You made me spit out my iced tea!!!! ROTFL!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[broitblat]

So, the "certificates" I have from bethlehemolivewood.net say:

"Your purchase is a product made of authentic Bethlehem Holy Land olive wood. This wood has been bearing fruits in the Nativity town of Bethelehem since the time of Jesus"

A little bit less equivocal, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be misleading or worse...

-Barry

 

[robutacion]

Hi everyone,

If I recall correctly, someone very recently has shown pics of a BOW certificate and some stickers in a previous post, and I would like to gather here a few examples of what people has been receiving from their sources as BOW certificates and other stuff.

I have one type to add here, and I would like the person that posted that recent cert pics, to post them here also (keep all together...!) I would like also to ask everyone else that has ant cert. etc., different them those shown to scan, zoom them as shows as a pic file.

If you recognize any of the certificates shown here, would be appreciated if you let us know and where they come from.

NOTE: I would prefer and suggest that you don't disclose any names of either individuals or businesses, simply tells us the country, state where you purchased those blanks from and what you were told as the origin of them are...!

It will be interesting to see how many type of BOW certificates are out there, what they say and how it is said...!:wink::biggrin:

Due to the risk/possibility that any of these pics could endup in someone's printer for "multiple" printing, I suggest/recommend that you put a water mark of some nature over the pic, big enough to be noticed and unusable for "reproduction"...!:wink::biggrin:

Cheers
George

 

[desertrat]

IF A FROG HAD WING'S HE WOULDN'T BUMP HIS BUTT ALL THE TIME!

desertrat

 

[Padre]

My certs are on the first post of this thread

 

[ldb2000]

IF A FROG HAD WING'S HE WOULDN'T BUMP HIS BUTT ALL THE TIME!

desertrat

I have to ask . What does this have to do with the price of beans from Brazil ? .... or this thread , for that matter ????

 

[rjwolfe3]

I think what he is implying is that this whole discussion about BOW and whether or not it is from Israel or some other country is pointless and not necessary. Or at least that is what I got out of it.

IF A FROG HAD WING'S HE WOULDN'T BUMP HIS BUTT ALL THE TIME!

desertrat

I have to ask . What does this have to do with the price of beans from Brazil ? .... or this thread , for that matter ????

 

[arioux]

IF A FROG HAD WING'S HE WOULDN'T BUMP HIS BUTT ALL THE TIME!

desertrat

I have to ask . What does this have to do with the price of beans from Brazil ? .... or this thread , for that matter ????

This thread speaks the thruth !! Well i trust it as much as some say i can thrust the certificate of authenticity.

 

[ldb2000]

Well which is it , The Truth or Not necessary . I for one would like to know !!! I don't like selling something that I can't feel 100% sure of the authenticity of the claims . I'm hoping that George has some facts to back up his claims , although through logic I must say that if all the BOW I see being sold came from trees planted in the Holy land , there wouldn't be any trees left to prune .

 

[rjwolfe3]

I totally agree. I would especially love to see some proof. I agree that we need to be careful of whom we buy from. I would be concerned with buying from Ebay but if I buy direct from Israel or from one of our suppliers that everyone uses, I think it is a safe bet that it is BOW and not IOW (Italian Olive Wood).

Well which is it , The Truth or Not necessary . I for one would like to know !!! I don't like selling something that I can't feel 100% sure of the authenticity of the claims . I'm hoping that George has some facts to back up his claims , although through logic I must say that if all the BOW I see being sold came from trees planted in the Holy land , there wouldn't be any trees left to prune .

 

[arioux]

Well which is it , The Truth or Not necessary . I for one would like to know !!! I don't like selling something that I can't feel 100% sure of the authenticity of the claims . I'm hoping that George has some facts to back up his claims , although through logic I must say that if all the BOW I see being sold came from trees planted in the Holy land , there wouldn't be any trees left to prune .

Many trees have been uprooted in the last few years, giving a lot of lumber. Over 300,000 in the Gaza srip alone. Olive tree cover 51% of the agricultural ground, a lot lot of trees.

http://www.poica.org/editor/case_studies/view.php?recordID=903

 

[rjwolfe3]

Well there ya go, almost 25,000 trees in Bethlehem alone. I wager you could probably get more then a couple of blanks from one tree.

Well which is it , The Truth or Not necessary . I for one would like to know !!! I don't like selling something that I can't feel 100% sure of the authenticity of the claims . I'm hoping that George has some facts to back up his claims , although through logic I must say that if all the BOW I see being sold came from trees planted in the Holy land , there wouldn't be any trees left to prune .

Many trees have been uprooted in the last few years, giving a lot of lumber. Over 300,000 in the Gaza srip alone. Olive tree cover 51% of the agricultural ground, a lot lot of trees.

http://www.poica.org/editor/case_studies/view.php?recordID=903

 

[ldb2000]

While the web site that Alfred posted claims to document truthfully what's happening there it is also very biased against Israel so the numbers posted could be way off the actual numbers . Also if the trees are uprooted you have to remember that it is not done in a gentle manner . Have you ever seen what trees look like that have been bulldozed , the amount of usable wood is reduced by a large number . There are still many , many unanswered questions here so this thread is not something to take lightly . We need unbiased proof of what George claims .

 

[arioux]

I understand your point. I don't try to make the thread go one way or an other. I posted that on your comment that there where many blanks on the market and few trees. There are millions of olive trees there and they take down 1000's every year.. I've been there twice in the last 2 years. They use bulldozer to take the tree down but if you look at an olive tree, it won't suffert that much from this treatment, specially the older ones. They harvest them witjh full traler pull by their mule. Now i don't say that there could not be fake BOW out there but if you by them from establish Bethleem source, they are real. I've seen shed with more wood than you can imagine. It's just that it is reguralized (sp?) and only a few are licence to market it.

Now for people that say that pruning don't produce piece big enough, here is a viseo of olive tree pruning. Look at the larger branch that get cut of. altough they are from spain, the principe is the same for all olive trees. Also look at the field on the openning images. There are hundreds of those fields in Israel.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyvMm9LW2-4

 

[Padre]

Ok, I'm not gonna' be quiet anymore.

Look, it's simple.

Go to Google. Go to maps. Go to Bethlehem, Israel. Go to satellite view. See how arid it is? See those sparsely placed green dots? Those are trees. Maybe 1 in 10 is an olive tree. The groves are all little backyard groves. And if there are trimmings, which there are, are sold locally to people like the Nissan brothers at the Bethlehem New Store and a dozen of other smaller stores that hawk their wares to all of the tourists. That's where the real money is, not in pen blanks.

Do the same search for Jerusalem. Arid, BIG city, not much agriculture there at all, mostly buildings and tourist attractions.

There is more planting of date palms than olive trees. Faster yield, higher yield, bigger profit. If there were so many olive trees in Israel, why aren't they one of the leading producers of olive oil? Well, those honors go to Spain, which is the top producer, followed by Italy, Portugal and Greece, with Australia gaining ground.

I've been there and I know other IAP members have as well. I'm tellin' ya', it all can't be genuine BOW/JOW.

There just aren't enough trees/trimming to supply the locals let alone all the pen turners of the world.

 

[ed4copies]

I've been there and I know other IAP members have as well. I'm tellin' ya', it all can't be genuine BOW/JOW.

Chip,

How much is "it all"??

What is the amount imported and sold in the USA per year?

I just received several hundred blanks--less than 2 cubic feet. Or, relating it to the many trees in my yard, one 6" apple "arm" cut off or broken off in a wind storm is about 10-15 feet long. This is about 9.5 cubic feet. I lose dozens every year. So how much are we really using??

Did my 600 blanks make a dent?? I doubt it. But how many sources in the USA order 600 per year?? I'm guessing at most a dozen.

Just a little food for thought. Recognize we are ALL guessing here--what I know for certain is the box came from Israel---seems likely the wood IN the box also came from Israel.

Yes, I COULD be wrong. I consider it more likely that the amount of wood we are using is MUCH SMALLER than you all are Guessing.

How many BOW pens have been posted this year?? That would be a starting point.

 

[Padre]

I've been there and I know other IAP members have as well. I'm tellin' ya', it all can't be genuine BOW/JOW.

Chip,

How much is "it all"??

What is the amount imported and sold in the USA per year?

I just received several hundred blanks--less than 2 cubic feet. Or, relating it to the many trees in my yard, one 6" apple "arm" cut off or broken off in a wind storm is about 10-15 feet long. This is about 9.5 cubic feet. I lose dozens every year. So how much are we really using??

Did my 600 blanks make a dent?? I doubt it. But how many sources in the USA order 600 per year?? I'm guessing at most a dozen.

Just a little food for thought. Recognize we are ALL guessing here--what I know for certain is the box came from Israel---seems likely the wood IN the box also came from Israel.

Yes, I COULD be wrong. I consider it more likely that the amount of wood we are using is MUCH SMALLER than you all are Guessing.

How many BOW pens have been posted this year?? That would be a starting point.

Ed, again, not trying to say you haven't done your homework, etc., and your wood is most likely from Israel, grown in Israel.

BUT, having said that, the amount of olivewood available out there, on Ebay especially, I don't think it all could be native Israeli wood. Just like the diamonds on Ebay, or the historical documents on Ebay. Buyer beware.

Will I buy from BOW from Ebay? No. Will I buy BOW from exoticblanks? Yes. Because you do, as much as you can, due diligence of your suppliers. That's what counts.

I am just saying that with all the pen makers in the world, the IAP just being the tip of the iceberg, I seriously, seriously doubt it is all from Israel.

BUT!!! I could also be very wrong. That's happened before.:tongue:

 

[ed4copies]

As you know, Chip, I am not trying to argue, nor do I believe you are.

The question is reasonable---

Unfortunately, I have no experience with EBay, so I am certainly NOT trying to defend THEIR allegations--they could all be very dishonest and I wouldn't know or care.

As a "copier expert" I do agree that the "COA's" look like very late generation (copies of copies of copies). So, that would lead one to be suspicious. However, I also feel (OPINION!!!!!--not FACT) that the local printer would make these for everyone who exports--so it probably does NOT relate to the source, as much as to the quality of the "quick printers" in Israel.

But, looking at the blanks I have, they are nicer than any I have purchased in the past. And I have, knowingly, purchased California olive that was pretty nicely figured, for my own pens and peppermills--over a decade ago.

It makes for good conversation, but I still feel comfortable that the wood is from trees in Israel. Now, whether they are Jerusalem or Bethlehem----that could be VERY mirky without surprising me.

But I will keep them separated as they were represented when sold to me. Just in case the seller was an honest Jew!!! (I'm told there are such folks!!)

 

[Padre]

As you know, Chip, I am not trying to argue, nor do I believe you are.

The question is reasonable---

Unfortunately, I have no experience with EBay, so I am certainly NOT trying to defend THEIR allegations--they could all be very dishonest and I wouldn't know or care.

As a "copier expert" I do agree that the "COA's" look like very late generation (copies of copies of copies). So, that would lead one to be suspicious. However, I also feel (OPINION!!!!!--not FACT) that the local printer would make these for everyone who exports--so it probably does NOT relate to the source, as much as to the quality of the "quick printers" in Israel.

But, looking at the blanks I have, they are nicer than any I have purchased in the past. And I have, knowingly, purchased California olive that was pretty nicely figured, for my own pens and peppermills--over a decade ago.

It makes for good conversation, but I still feel comfortable that the wood is from trees in Israel. Now, whether they are Jerusalem or Bethlehem----that could be VERY mirky without surprising me.

But I will keep them separated as they were represented when sold to me. Just in case the seller was an honest Jew!!! (I'm told there are such folks!!)

I can't wait for my retirement check to come in! Watch out exotics!:biggrin:

 

[Padre]

For instance, look at this Ebay seller, even this seller acknowledges that a lot of sellers are 'alleged.'

 

[ed4copies]

Would you like some nice clean, newly-type set COA's??

I can have them ready in a couple hours:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[robutacion]

For instance, look at this Ebay seller, even this seller acknowledges that a lot of sellers are 'alleged.'

I was just preparing and answer for Ed but your link is a good example of what I'm talking about...!

The very first claim he/she makes is"WE'RE THE ONLY SUPPLIERS OF BETHLEHEM OLIVE WOOD PEN BLANKS WORLDWIDE
then further down, and after he/she states that anyone else's BOW is not...!
he/she claims, "We are the main suppliers of Bethlehem& Jerusalem Holy land olive wood pen blanks worldwide.

I sell on eBay, I know what is all about but, eBay is only one part of the problem...!

It saddens me to see people, particular new pen turners but not only, mentioning BOW as if it was a something else but Olive wood. For the majority of them, is not they fault really, as they get brain washed without realizing that BOW is the Olive wood there is so, any time they thing Olive wood, the only word that they know how to identify such product is BOW, not even realising or knowing what it means...!

I hope that, by the time this issue is exhausted, people will have a better understanding of what Olive wood really is and what BOW should be...!

Cheers
George

 

[PenMan1]

I've got a "certificate of authencity", A customs declaration, recongnized as authentic, by the United States of America and the Government of Israel, AND the word of the family (with no passports) that gathered the wood, that all affirm that my wood is from Bethlehem, Israel.

Just because some guy on IAP says it comes from Italy, doesn't make it so. Additonally, Israel is COVERED with DEAD olivewood (bombs blow up trees as well as people).

IF you choose to believe that a people known for their pragmatism would pay import AND export duties to sell a product that they trip over on the roadside, I respect your opinion.

Finally, I have made a "good faith" effort to purchase an authentic product. It would really be hard to prove me wrong. ADDITIONALLY, I have a 100% satisfaction warranty. If my customer just "thinks" it's fake... I'll buy the pen back at full purchase price...SO far, I've had no takers on the return policy.

Where IS that dead horse cartoon?

 

[robutacion]

Olive Tree story...! (1)

Hi everyone,

I'm going to proceed with my educational attempt to give everyone a good idea of what Olive wood is.

This will answer a lot of people questions and doubts and for many of you, the first time ever such information was provided free of charge, so take it as a learning experience and knowledge gathering.

Many of you have been wondering, what makes me an "authority" in this matter and what do I know that you don't already know about it..??? You will be the judge of that when I'm finished...!

Just a little background;

Born and lived in Portugal until the age of 30, "one" (third I think...!) of the bigger sources of Olive oil products on the world. There were 4 things that I grow with as a little kid, Pine forests, grape-vines, fruit trees and Olive trees, in no particular order.
As a little "village" kid I was taught how to hand-pic the olives, bad and carry them to the mill (stone crasher) first, followed as I grown to stick picker (long sticks to "bash/shake" the olives out of the tallest branches, followed by one of the most regarded and critical jobs/processes one can do working with fruiting Olive trees, and there is, the annual pruning/trimming, light or heavy type.

At the age of 17 my ancestors (my masters) were satisfied that I had a good "neck for it" as they would say...!, and I was allowed to join them on that very "special" job. The trees that I worked with or seen where hundreds of years old, the county is about 900 years old and some of those tree were planted by those before us. (once I knew all the history and names, dates, etc., but I forgotten all that...!:frown, sorry.

As a young man, I had already experienced all the "initiations" "put through the rings" as it is known here, one young village man is submitted to, if it is found to have the natural skill and tendency, recognised and decide upon by your elders...! I remember to be attempting to slip Olive wood as firewood sat a such young age that I hardly could lift the axe...!:biggrin:

Anyway, I become very involved with the local wood industry (pine plantations, wood mills, etc., etc.) very early and I spend a few years with a an old master carpenter/carver as a apprentice to acquire enough knowledge to be recognised as a carpenter myself. By the age of 19 and just before I was called to the compulsory army time (2 years approx.) and sent to a war in Mozambique (Africa) as a spinner paratrooper that wasn't mine but, created by politics to which cost me a broken spine, 2 years in a wheel-chair and years of physiotherapy, I was doing a lot of carpentry jobs around town and cutting a lot of trees, milling them and do all sorts of things with the wood.

One of the most sourced woods for high end furniture, carving and rich people's interior design pieces was the Olive wood, to which I had access from a few trees, some that were uprooted by storms (very rare) but most were trees that had to be removed due to urbanization and some years later full olive groves bulldozed out to be replaced by new plantations of eucalyptus trees for the production of paper, which was responsible for large number of other trees being removed and replaced by this new profitable income (more than olive oil) to the land owners...!

Most of the Olive wood available (plenty off) was used as firewood or for the production of under-ground charcoal as a fundamental heat source in those days. There was a limited number of trees that ever seen a mill, as most of them due to age = large cracks, wood separation, hollow most times, curled/curved/bent/bowed/short, etc., only a few had enough timber yield size to be milled and that was one of my specialities, select the Olive trees (that had to come down, ONLY, never, I mean never I was allowed or wished to cut a ancient or not Olive tree that had no reason to be cut down, I still use that same principle today...!) that could produce timber, cut, transport them to the mill and process them myself.

The wood (planks/boards) will then stacked outside for air-drying for some time before they would be used for making furniture and other items, which I supplied to other carpenters local and not so local, in fact I did have master carvers and other furniture making people, ordering this Olive wood from hundreds of miles away...! In those days, a carpenter is someone that has the skill to work with timber from it very beginning, from planting the trees to selecting the trees that have to be cut depending of what they would be used for, right to the final product, regardless if is a house, a floor a shed, a box, a piece of furniture, a boat, a kids toy, a air-plain propeller, a carved rosette, you name it...!:wink: I was and have been, one of those.

After arrival in Australia (1987), I pursued a child dream and a passion I had also and that took me to the most deserted and inhospitable places in existence in this country (Australia) for about 16 years. Timber, trees were not part of my life for all that time nor they could be, in some places I've worked on, the next tree was about 100 miles towards the sunset...!:frown:

Since the moment that I concluded that, I had reached the end of the road with that career, physically, emotionally and "other" (6 years ago), I became a disability pensioner living in a place where I got all the other thinks I like and missed, particularly the trees. This location was chosen by some of our European Settlers for a reason, it has identical characteristics to those experienced in our countries of birth, particularly if you are a mature adult when you leave...!

Back to Olive trees, I started collecting/gathering/salvaging wood/trees as soon as I could and with the help of my wife, I has/have been able to gather a considerable amount of wood from the local area for my wood-turning hobby that did became more of an obsession than anything else for some time, after all I was gathering plenty of wood, indeed a lot more than I could ever use.

One of the first woods that I tried to get was the Olive wood but soon I realised that it wasn't going to be easy as most of the old trees have been cut and destroyed (burnt), many other Olive trees found in the area are young (5 to 30 years) and the older ones are either own by Government (Council) or own by private owners that are not going to allow anyone touch them. A large percentage of the old trees have not been pruned for 30 years or more, producing olives every year that are discarded (left to rot) as its quality would be as good as it could be, nor these people need or wish to bother with the expense of having them picked and crashed for oil production.

Unfortunately, most of the first Olive trees planted in Australia (about 1840"s) were ripped out in the 60's and 70's as the original owners were no longer alive, the olive oil consumption in Australia did never reach the levels require/desired, therefore removed and replaced with other trees, such as fruit trees and vineyards in particular.
Off-course, that did all change in these last 2 decades or so, where the olive oil consumption in Australia was finally accepted as a good and healthy alternative, and its consumption has increased 1.000% or more...!

What you see now, particularly these last 10 years, is Olive trees that are young and a phenomenal increase of small Olive groves being planted everywhere. These are mostly generically modified Olive trees that are design specifically as faster growers, to produce more and better fruit, be small in size to allow the mechanical use of fruit picking machines and all other sorts of mechanical tools now introduced to hand-picking. These Olive trees are different in appearance, bark, and will never be wood producers, their size is very small compared with the old type Olive trees.

For the first nearly 3 years of the 6 mentioned previously, I did a lot of Olive tree trimming/pruning on the local Olive groves, free of charge in exchange for the rights of hand picking what I wanted before it would be either cut for firewood or burnt on site, in those 3 years I never managed to get a log/piece that would big enough to turn a small dish out of it, much less a fruit/salad bowl even if a small one. Some of the best trimmings I had, were from some of the old trees that people wanted to keep them pruned regularly (annually) to keep producing good fruit/good quality oil.

I kept doing it for the hope that would get something better, the new Olive trees don't have much or nearly any of heartwood in the wood even if the branches are 4" diameter or more :redface:. The demand for me to do this work every year, was certainly more that what I could ever coupe with, I'm too heavy to be playing "monkey" and was no really return for my effort but for those that I was doing the work for and quickly spread, this guy working for free in exchange for "rubbish" was a very good deal to them after all, each day's work I did pruning, save them $300 per day, this is what they have to pay for someone doing this sort of work...!

The benefit really was that I was getting known and meeting a lot of Italians and other people that were now owners of Olive trees and that has helped me to find someone 3 years ago that had 9 of the first Olive trees planted in Australia that had to come out (that has its own story, but not now), thanks...!:biggrin. They have cost me a fortune to secure as my property and I am to have them removed, including roots that are bigger that a small car, holes filled and everything clean, including burning small branches, etc., has the property owner see fit, as the trees are in 3 separate groups and they can only be removed when he is ready. The first group of 3 were removed not longer after (about 2 1/2 years ago), the next group was suppose to have been removed a few months back but he changed his mind for another year or so and all the 9 Olive trees will have to be remove completely by 2017 (part of the contract/negotiations).

The Olive wood I have been working with (I've spent 7 days straight of green turning large bowl blanks, after I got the wood home - storage paddock) and the one that I've been selling in all sorts of sizes and shapes, including log form, has come from these 3 trees and I hope that I can last long enough to get the rest of them, I'm certainly hopped that, when I secured the "deal"...!:wink:

A lot of people have been turning this wood for some time, and I have made sure that this wood is not only affordable by rich people (I have nothing against rich people, I which that I had that power too...!), and a lot of people have seen the trees before, during and after they were cut, including some of the humongous roots, they've seen me cutting them and my wife helping out, they seen me slabbing some of the best logs, they saw many of the blanks I made out of them and pieces that I have been turning for my own use and satisfaction, after all, I waited long enough, didn't I...??? Do I know anything about Olive wood...??? well, I should...!:wink:

To be continued...!

Cheers
George

 

[workinforwood]

Average life span of an olive tree is 500-900 yrs, with proper care. There are some that are 2000 yrs old, but those are extremely rare. The odds of a single olive tree in Bethlehem living that long are low, let alone enough olive tree's to provide trimmings for 10's of thousands of pen blanks. Simply meaning that the odds of anyone having BOW from a tree that existed while Jesus did, are very low. Doesn't mean you can't get BOW, but not likely from that far back.

 

[robutacion]

I've got a "certificate of authencity", A customs declaration, recongnized as authentic, by the United States of America and the Government of Israel, AND the word of the family (with no passports) that gathered the wood, that all affirm that my wood is from Bethlehem, Israel.

Just because some guy on IAP says it comes from Italy, doesn't make it so. Additonally, Israel is COVERED with DEAD olivewood (bombs blow up trees as well as people).

IF you choose to believe that a people known for their pragmatism would pay import AND export duties to sell a product that they trip over on the roadside, I respect your opinion.

Finally, I have made a "good faith" effort to purchase an authentic product. It would really be hard to prove me wrong. ADDITIONALLY, I have a 100% satisfaction warranty. If my customer just "thinks" it's fake... I'll buy the pen back at full purchase price...SO far, I've had no takers on the return policy.

Where IS that dead horse cartoon?

I respect your opinion, but and with all due respect, I disagree with you...!

I think that is has been agreed by the customs papers and shipping stumps showing that the boxes was posted in/from Israel, is not really much a proof in regards to the authenticity of the wood origin, and I have also revealed one of my sources and the owner himself, of one of the larger olive wood mills in Italy that has been cutting/processing local Olive wood and send it by the container full to Israel. One of this large purchases/orders were made by an Israeli gentleman that visit the factory/mill in Italy and and gave specifics instructions of how the timber should be cut.

Anyway, I didn't know that you sell "BOW" pen blanks, nor I have any intentions to know who sells this product, that never was and still is not my point.

My point/claim is, there is a large numbers of Italian (and maybe other near by sources of Olive wood) wood blanks being sold as BOW all over the world for quite some time, as also an increase number of new unscrupulous BOW sellers coming out of the wood works like mushrooms in winter time, as the imported wood is given them the opportunity to make a quick buck out of the scam...!

Quoting a phrase from your own post above that, "Just because some guy on IAP says it comes from Italy, doesn't make it so" "that guy" is basically blowing the whistle and say that, people are paying good money for a product that they are buying and accepting the hight value, believing that the Olive wood they are buying come from ancient trees planted in Bethlehem, the Holy Land. I'm simply alerting them that they should as k some questions of the wood authenticity to their suppliers and hopping that those suppliers are asking some question to they suppliers also in Israel and make sure that they know that a lot of other people started to put 2 and 2 together and things just don't add up...!

I really would like to see how the Israeli suppliers would react if they were told by our BOW suppliers that 1 or 2 random blanks from the order, will be sent to an official lab for testing the identification origin of the trees they come from...!

Fact, there is a large number of wood sold as BOW that is not BOW...!

Fact, this issue will be of interest to a lot of people...!

Fact, Those that have no interest in these matters, are welcome to ignore this thread and spend their time reading countless other subjects that IAP has to offer every day...!

Fact, why is that, that the first sign shown that the issue is making some people nervous, is expressed by using the "bashing a dead horse" / beaten to death" symbolic expressions, always coming from people with a high commercial interest which applies to suppliers of such product...???

I which that was some other way to expose this scam, without affecting some people, I have no personal satisfaction in seeing people upset, ripped-of or taken as a fool. I just want people to have enough information on this issue, so that they can make their own conclusions based on the facts that some will always regard as irrelevant and/or waste of time...!

In the Court of Law, ignorance is no excuse, and I believe this to be very truth...!

I hope that I'm given the opportunity to continue putting my claim across, without being offended, disrespected and or ear tag marked for what I stand for. I will try to continue to see the replies as other peoples opinions which they have the right of/to, so I would appreciate if those wanting to contribute in this discussion, to do so respectfully...!

Thank you!

Cheers
George