When is enough enough??

[CharlestonPenWorks]

We all know that we are our worst critics. Herein lies the problem. To myself, who is borderline OCD when it deals with straightness, files, order, layout in my life, as I make pens I struggle with where to draw the line on pens I have made as far as their "goodness." I struggle with the concept of leaving good enough alone. Please don't crucify me for saying this. I don't mean that I just want to send out pens that are only good enough, but seriously, when are minor flaws only seen by me because I made them good enough?

 

[GouletPens]

If you're really struggling about what "level" to make your pens, then save the ones you think are out of this world good for sale, and give the 'imperfect' ones away as gifts. People are much more forgiving (and probably won't even notice) when it's a gift. Besides, over time your mistakes will become even less noticeable with experience.

 

[Verne]

Dennis,
Just my humble opinion but circular swirls were my achilles heel. I could see them but my bride nor any one else could see what I talked about. It still bothers me but I let the piece itself decide. Some pieces just are more apparent than others.
Believe me, there are some real nasty production pieces out there for sale, and they are being sold. Just go to a couple craft shows and you will think your pieces are flawless.
The main thing as far as I'm concerned is "does it make me happy"? If the answer is yes what more could one ask for.
Vern sorry for being so gabby

 

[rjwolfe3]

I too struggle with this. But for some reason no one else can see the flaws.

 

[rlharding]

I still struggle with this one. I have often read folks here say that they make sure everything is perfect because of the high sale price. I don't know what that means. I have a fabulous Gabon ebony Retro that has cracked on me. It is a custom order where the customer actually came to my shop and chose the blank. The crack doesn't go all the way through and I am debating whether I should just take the pen apart, fill the hairline crack with coffee and re-finish.

I still haven't solved the circular scratch mark on the silver part of the nib end. Do I continue making pens with those kits or do I toss them? I don't know what's best but I do know people think my pens are the greatest thing since sliced bread!

If you find an answer let me know!

 

[wolftat]

I too struggle with this. But for some reason no one else can see the flaws.

I think anyone that cares about the quality of their pens goes through this. I have a big box of rejects that friends have gone through and can't find any problems with the pens, but I am actually hesitant to even give them away.

 

[wdcav1952]

Dennis,

It is my belief that when one becomes satisfied and complacent about their work, whatever it might be, they cease to grow and improve.

 

[JimB]

Show your pens to someone else on a regular basis. My wife sees all my pens and is probably a tougher critic then me. She can spot the smallest detail. The good news is this is how I keep getting better. The better news is since she sees all my pens she also spots the steady improvements I have made. This was very important in the beginning when I didn't always get a good fit to the hardware and is now important as I improve my CA finish and have started experimenting with other finishes. All this doesn't mean I don't sell these pens. I do sell them. These are flaws no one else notices except my wife and I but as I eliminate them the pens get better even though the customer may not know why they are better.

The other thing you can do is post some pictures here in SOYP and ask for people to take a very close look and give you honest feedback. You will get a good idea how good your work is.

 

[Daniel]

I have not only noticed this in the individual sense. But as a group as well. We often speak of the Cheap plating or Cheap kits. In comparison to What? Spend some time handeling a few cross pens in the $35.00 range and you will start to develop a different idea about what is a tight fitting smooth operating pen. The lowest cost pens we can get are on par with the lower end if not better than the lower end of what is available.
as for perfection. I have had many people mention that Hand Made items are not supposed to be flawless. That is part of the appeal and evidence that it is hand made. look at all the country craft kitchen decorations you find at craft shows. they are crafted to be rough and unfinished looking and sell like gang busters.
In short there is appeal in just about any way things can be done for the right person. I think it is only us craftspeople that get so obsessed with better working smoother and flawless finishes. these very things could be loosing as many sales as they gain.
I know one thing, regardless of how I make pens it is the only hobby I have ever had that actually supports itself. I could go on making pens indefinitely by using only money that I make from the sales of pens. of course I don't. But it is nice to have something to do that does have a demand for the product produced.
One other thought is that any artistic presuit will eventually have your style begin to emerge. penturning is no different. many artists can be recognized by their style of painting for example. just the same we should pay attention for our own individual style to evolve and encourage it. I often think we are far to busy trying to get a pen that looks like the other guys than focusing on what we each think a pen should look like. some like fat bodies or beads and coves. these are somehting that they are both interested in turning and in there eye make a pen interesting for any number of reasons. others lke to work on blending and balancing materials. other pressue the art of inlay which really lends itself to evolving a personal style or look.
I like to play with lines. blending the shape of the pen body with the angles of the fittings. I know I have this bent because it is natural and easy for me to see the lines. I also have an appeal for smooth transitions. and balance in form. But that is simly my prefernece which is by the way what will actually dictate what my personal style will eventually be. My photography and my pencil drawings are two things that this has developed into a clear "Daniel did that" type of style.
It requires learning the basics but eventually results in applying those basics to acheive your vision. if your vision is prefection you are setting yoruself up for frustration. I foten set out to draw a certain picture. seldom is the finished work what I originally thought of. But I am often suprised at what I did end up with. I remember realizing that I got much better at drawing when I stopped trying to copy and started drawing. You could draw a rock and I could also. neither would look anything alike and both would look like a rock.

 

[jtrusselle]

If you're really struggling about what "level" to make your pens, then save the ones you think are out of this world good for sale, and give the 'imperfect' ones away as gifts. People are much more forgiving (and probably won't even notice) when it's a gift. Besides, over time your mistakes will become even less noticeable with experience.

I agree with Brian. I gave my chiropractor a pen the other day that had a slight imperfection - a small smudge at the top of the pen. I pointed out the imperfection and he still wanted to pay for the pen. I wouldn't let him and since this was the first pen I finished using Russ Fairfield's CA/BLO technique I asked the Doc to use it often as a test of finish durability. I made his day!

 

[jttheclockman]

Boy can I relate to this topic. I am too much of a perfectionist and at times it drives me nuts. I have thrown away good looking projects because I know of flaws. But I have learned over the years while doing my other hobby scrollsawing, that people are not as critical as you are. But in turn I also learned to put out a product that I can say I did my very best on especially if someone is paying for it. You do develop a style. I had gotten my nickname the clock man from my obsession of making scrollsawn clocks. I branched out over the years to other aspects and things but always traveled back to making clocks. I have added turning to my interests now and pen turning has become an obsession. The thing with this it has provided the juices flowing again and the imagination to try new things.

I guess my point is we try our best to make a product that is to our best abilities but we are always striving to improve or change things and when you do this you are always learning so in retrospect you will never reach the pinacle of a flawless piece. So relax and enjoy the hobby and continue to try to improve and expand.

 

[CharlestonPenWorks]

One thing I did last night was take apart a few pens that have been just staring me in the face because of a crack, or a smudge I left under the CA finish. I figured, they aren't doing me any good mocking me so I took them apart for parts. The kits will live to see another day.

Thanks for the thought provoking conversations here.

 

[chriselle]

This is an easy one for me. I charge a lot for my pens. So..They MUST be flawless to make it to the showcase. Even the pens that we give away are straight from the store's display stock. There can't be any "just good enough" pens under any circumstances....even the pen I carry around and use daily.

My struggle lies in the grey area between... flawless and perfect. I guess that's what keeps me moving forward.

 

[areaman]

nicely said Daniel

 

[bitshird]

I like to get my pens pretty close, I do sometimes hurry through slimlines though, tubes are cheap, so if I mess up on finish I'll deep six the pen, on the more expensive kits, I caliper them, so there isn't any under/over turning, I have seen some pens that are so under turned or over turned with nasty finishes, sell that I don't feel bad about very many of mine, But that said, I am my own worst critic, I think that's the way most of us are. Perfection would be a great thing to achieve, but I honestly believe it would for me be an impossible task. And it would take the fun out of it, precise is obtainable, perfection isn't, done well isn't all that hard and good or not so good is really just an opinion usually of the maker.

 

[JimB]

One thing I did last night was take apart a few pens that have been just staring me in the face because of a crack, or a smudge I left under the CA finish. I figured, they aren't doing me any good mocking me so I took them apart for parts. The kits will live to see another day.

Thanks for the thought provoking conversations here.

Don't just toss out the wood. I've learned a lot from disassembling a pen and re-doing the finish or fixing another problem. I've had one or two, that after re-doing the pen, it still wasn't any good because of a new problem or over sanding etc. However, it was still worth doing because the process taught me something. As an example, I've learned more about sanding/MM/polishing a CA finish by re-doing finishes on pens I had to take apart.

When the time comes that I want/need to save an expensive kit or blank I will know what to do because I did it first on a cheap one.

 

[GouletPens]

Norm Abram wrote a great little book called Measure Twice Cut Once and I'll never forget one line he had in there. He said that everyone makes mistakes, but what makes someone a master is their ability to hide them. The same goes here....We all make mistakes, but if you can hide them so well that no one else can see them, that's all that you can ask for!

 

[wdcav1952]

Norm Abram wrote a great little book called Measure Twice Cut Once and I'll never forget one line he had in there. He said that everyone makes mistakes, but what makes someone a master is their ability to hide them. The same goes here....We all make mistakes, but if you can hide them so well that no one else can see them, that's all that you can ask for!

Brian,

Excellent point, and very apropos. In my opinion, NONE of us make the 100% perfect pen. Maybe even the turner cannot see them, but there are flaws there.

As in life, we do the best we can, and forge on, learning all the way.

 

[george]

Yeah, the same goes for me. I always turn and turn the finished pen under different lights, and often find some small detail I am not happy about. But just due to the fact of loosing the "realistic" look to the pen, I always show it to few of my family members, for which I know they will also give me the negative opinion. If they say it is OK, I know the pen can be offered for sell.

When I look at pictures of my first pens, for which I was back then sure that they were one of the greatest things mankind has ever made, I ask my self who ever purchased those pens.

 

[fyrcaptn]

oops shhhh aw fiddly

I am not perfect and my pens aren't either. Guess that is why I don't sell mine - as a rule.
I've got a box of pens that I am keeping. Not sure why.
Won't sell them. Won't give them away. I guess one day I am going to salvage them.
Some broke my heart. One is the most figured piece of apple. Man I was and still am proud of that pen. Right up until I found ............. the crack. ARGH!
No one else can see it until I point it out and then they can't understand why it is a problem. ITS A CRACK! Can't they get it?? It might get worse. I'm not honestly sure how to repair this thing. I can't make myself turn the piece to the tubes and start again. I still have some of the apple and can't make myself turn it. Yet. Oh man is it ever sweet! But what if it cracks as well?
I would never knowingly sell or try to sell a piece that I wasn't happy with or give it away. To me its the same thing. Whether there's money or not. Its a part of me.
Happy with doesn't mean its perfect. Some things can get so close and some things just aren't going to come close. So I try and learn and enjoy the heck out of it as best I can.
Good thoughts on this I'd never really considered it but I haven't carried a plastic store bought cold impersonal pen since I made my first pen.
I carry that first pen every shift. It gets used a lot. A part of me is so satisfied with it. A part of me wants to take it apart and refine the fit. Did you know that bushings are just guides?? These things called calipers really help. Fortunately, I've learned.. a little. The transmission needs to be seated just a little deeper... etc etc etc
So for now I have left it alone. But every time I use it, I see the 'problems'. Would I give this pen or sell it. Nope. Am I proud of it? Yes. And no. So I keep it for me. Not because its the first, but because it just has issues. Then because its my first.
I make wood pens. I love wood. Wood is not perfect. Those imperfections in the wood give it character and life. Can't replicate that in plastic. Nothing wrong with plastic - I've seen some of y'all's plastics that are awesome. But it just isn't wood. Not meant to be. So please don't think I'm a snob or bashing anyone who does the non-woods. I just like what I like. Same as every one else.
So for me the answer is when I'm happy with it, it can leave the shop. Not until.

 

[TellicoTurning]

Don't just toss out the wood. I've learned a lot from disassembling a pen and re-doing the finish or fixing another problem. I've had one or two, that after re-doing the pen, it still wasn't any good because of a new problem or over sanding etc. However, it was still worth doing because the process taught me something. As an example, I've learned more about sanding/MM/polishing a CA finish by re-doing finishes on pens I had to take apart.

When the time comes that I want/need to save an expensive kit or blank I will know what to do because I did it first on a cheap one.

This is good advice.. keeping in mind that I tend to be pretty cheap and don't like to throw away anything that "I might be able to use that someday"... I have a bunch of pen halves or pieces I've saved from pens I didn't like and took apart, but saved the turnings for future use... I've even gone so far as to make a little label and drop it inside the bag so I'll know what kind of pen it came from... I've gone back, refinished and re-used some of these to make mixed woods or mixed wood and antler pens.. you can also re-use them as practice for your finish techniques.

 

[artistwood]

i work in a general electric plant as a quality inspector. my rule of thumb on something the size of a pen is to hold it 12 inches in front of you with your eyes closed. open them and look at the pen for no more than 3 seconds. if you dont see a flaw, chances are that none of the other 9,999 of 10,000 will either. this is a proven method and i hope it helps..........bear

 

[VisExp]

I feel that it is a continuously evolving process. As long as I am doing work to the best of my abilities, then I am happy. Granted I may look at others work and aspire to reach those levels, but by the same token I can look at my previous work and know that I have moved forward.

 

[tim self]

I'm with the general croud here about "Is it good enough?".I havent been doing this for years, in fact, only about 8 months. When I started, I used a jewelers magnification set to spot flaws, Is that OCD?, I dont know. However, as I gained confidence, I was able to lay it aside and trust my own judgement. I've done flatwork for years and it had to be "perfect". I've also been very lucky to not have any pens crack on me. And I dont know how many blanks I've sanded back to wood for swirls. Will I EVER make that PERFECT pen, probably not, there are to many variables. I do it because I enjoy it. And if I happen to sell them along the way, Thanks to God and let some more sell.

 

[dasimm]

Interestingly enough I had a conversation with another local pen turner last week-end and he asked me what my goal was when I turned a pen? It made me think hard about why I am doing this; the challenge, joy, happiness, profit, satisfaction, perfection, all of the above?

It really struck home the next day when I delivered a pen to a customer and his face lit up. He really became totally engrossed in the pen itself. For a moment, I ceased to exist to this person as he held it up to the light and looked at the grain of the wood, the smooth glossy finish, and finally the artistry of the pen kit itself. He worked the smooth twist action of the transmission and then he took the pen and scrawled his name on a piece of paper. When he was done he looked up and said: "it's perfect"... So for what it's worth, that's my definition of perfection: a very happy customer. Was my pen truly flawless - no, absolutely not; but my customer thought so and that made me very happy indeed.

BTW - There are some truly insightful thoughts here...

 

[John Eberly]

"Good Enough"

I've spent 25 years in consulting engineering. One lesson that I'm still trying to internalize is that quality is only defined by the client - or the buyer of a pen.

I guess that keeping penturning as a hobby is a good thing for me because I can make my pens what I want them to be - the "client" either likes them or not, and it does not change my life too much either way.

I am interested in continuing to improve my efforts, and I'll take that as a challenge for as long as I keep this up. But not having to let somebody else define what is "good enough" frees me to enjoy my hobby much more than I will ever enjoy my job -

Personality also is a big driver here. I am a perfectionist up to a point. That point is when "good enough" takes over. You'll probably never see me with a jewelers loupe examining one of my pens (or one of yours either).

 

[wolftat]

I would have to guess that the perfect pen is going to have to be made by a perfect person. Don't count on seeing any perfect pens in this lifetime.

 

[RussFairfield]

An opinion, not an answer:
If you have to ask the question, your pens aren't "good enough". If you can see flaws, be assured that someone else will too. Being more critical of your own work will insure that your pens improve from "good enough" to "excellent".

 

[bitshird]

It really struck home the next day when I delivered a pen to a customer and his face lit up. He really became totally engrossed in the pen itself. For a moment, I ceased to exist to this person as he held it up to the light and looked at the grain of the wood, the smooth glossy finish, and finally the artistry of the pen kit itself. He worked the smooth twist action of the transmission and then he took the pen and scrawled his name on a piece of paper. When he was done he looked up and said: "it's perfect"... So for what it's worth, that's my definition of perfection: a very happy customer. Was my pen truly flawless - no, absolutely not; but my customer thought so and that made me very happy indeed.

BTW - There are some truly insightful thoughts here...

I think you found the correct answer.