jzerger
Member
I turned my first red Dino bone trustone and love it. What can I tell people about it and still be honest? Is there some real fossilized sediment in it making it really ancient (a million years?).
What is red Dino bone?
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Tim'sTurnings
Member
When I googled red dinosaur bone I got an explanation from a different vendor and explained it as follows:
"Fossilized prehistoric dinosaur bone from the fossil beds of Utah, many millions of years old, beautifully shaped and polished, these specimens have some amazing cell structures and colors. Highly agatized gemmy fossils, from red to powder blue, plus rare harvest and earthen colors. Museum quality specimens for collectors and hobbyists to display or to design into very special pieces of original jewelry. Dinosaurs thrived during the Mesozoic Age between 231 and 65 million years ago. These cabs are solid Jurassic artifacts, preserved for eternity, a family heirloom for the future."
I don't know if it is the same as Exotics Blanks sells or not. You could call the vendor you bought it from to confirm the preceding explanation. I don't know if this information helps you out or not. JMO.
"Fossilized prehistoric dinosaur bone from the fossil beds of Utah, many millions of years old, beautifully shaped and polished, these specimens have some amazing cell structures and colors. Highly agatized gemmy fossils, from red to powder blue, plus rare harvest and earthen colors. Museum quality specimens for collectors and hobbyists to display or to design into very special pieces of original jewelry. Dinosaurs thrived during the Mesozoic Age between 231 and 65 million years ago. These cabs are solid Jurassic artifacts, preserved for eternity, a family heirloom for the future."
I don't know if it is the same as Exotics Blanks sells or not. You could call the vendor you bought it from to confirm the preceding explanation. I don't know if this information helps you out or not. JMO.
alphageek
Former Moderator
Red highlight above is mine... thats from a site about cabochons. Definately not the "dino bone" color trustone that is available for pen turners. The trustone (dino and others) is a real stone mixed with a resin that we can cut with our tools. I love the dino, but unfortunately I am sure its nothing more than a name.
Tim'sTurnings
Member
Sorry if my reply to the OP was incorrect. Too bad I can't delete it, but I don't know how. I tried. :crying:
alphageek
Former Moderator
jzerger
Member
I've done the google approach also and still am not sure. Whatever it is it's some cool stone ... Do we know what stone it is?
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
The safest answer is no, we don't know what it is.
Take it at face value, it is a stone which has been ground and then mixed with resin to make a blank that we can turn with HSS tools. You will find that there is no need to "enhance" this. I have sold many high end pens with trustone. It makes the pen very heavy and that should be a detriment, but they buy it anyway, because it looks different.
Sorry, I don't think they would believe we were selling dinosaur bones anyhow, but no, I would NOT say that.
Take it at face value, it is a stone which has been ground and then mixed with resin to make a blank that we can turn with HSS tools. You will find that there is no need to "enhance" this. I have sold many high end pens with trustone. It makes the pen very heavy and that should be a detriment, but they buy it anyway, because it looks different.
Sorry, I don't think they would believe we were selling dinosaur bones anyhow, but no, I would NOT say that.
brownsfn2
Member
I thought that the Tru-Stone was supposed to imitate some type of gemstone somewhere. Usually I find a description of the tru-stone color at a jewelry site. Here is a blog that discussed Dino-bone and has pictures that resemble it:
Dinosaur bone jewelry « Snob Appeal Jewelry
I used to think that the gemstone that the tru-stone blank emulates was ground and put into the blank. Now I am pretty sure that is not true. Unless someone can correct me?
I do wonder what kind of stone they use. I would think that it is different for the Gold web blanks since they make the buffing wheels black.
Dinosaur bone jewelry « Snob Appeal Jewelry
I used to think that the gemstone that the tru-stone blank emulates was ground and put into the blank. Now I am pretty sure that is not true. Unless someone can correct me?
I do wonder what kind of stone they use. I would think that it is different for the Gold web blanks since they make the buffing wheels black.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
Ron,
Buffing metal turns buffing wheels black.
So, my educated guess would be that the "gold" is a metal of some kind and that is turning your wheels black. I do NOT know, just attempting to apply logic.
Buffing metal turns buffing wheels black.
So, my educated guess would be that the "gold" is a metal of some kind and that is turning your wheels black. I do NOT know, just attempting to apply logic.
Andrew_K99
Member
As per R and B Crafts site.
"Tru-Stone is manufactured from approximately 85% natural stone ore that has been pulverized to a powder and then mixed with pigments and acrylic resin. It is then compressed into blocks and cut to size. The finished product is a material that resembles the natural stone but can be turned and machined with standard wood tools."
I'd take this to mean there is no ancient story that goes along with red dino bone, or any other trustone blank.
AK
"Tru-Stone is manufactured from approximately 85% natural stone ore that has been pulverized to a powder and then mixed with pigments and acrylic resin. It is then compressed into blocks and cut to size. The finished product is a material that resembles the natural stone but can be turned and machined with standard wood tools."
I'd take this to mean there is no ancient story that goes along with red dino bone, or any other trustone blank.
AK
brownsfn2
Member
When I looked at the RT research site it was interesting to me to see one of their subsidiaries. The RT Gem Foundry makes bowls. When you look at the product information page it describes the process. Here is the link:
Decorative Bowls, Home Furnishing
Since they say they use Semi-precious stone in the bowl making I am wondering now if semi precious stone is used in the composite pen blank material. Although when you look at the RT main website they say they manufacture IMITATION semi-precious stone for large scale jewelry production. I wish I knew for sure if they used just some of the Real semi-precious stone in the final material. It would make for a good story.
Decorative Bowls, Home Furnishing
Since they say they use Semi-precious stone in the bowl making I am wondering now if semi precious stone is used in the composite pen blank material. Although when you look at the RT main website they say they manufacture IMITATION semi-precious stone for large scale jewelry production. I wish I knew for sure if they used just some of the Real semi-precious stone in the final material. It would make for a good story.
PTsideshow
Member
Having a long time background in Rock/Fossil collecting and Jewelry/Lapidary work. I will say that there is a difference in the terms names used in the two hobbies. Because the turning hobby uses different cutting and polishing tools. The products will be more resin based. For ease of working them with our standard tools and polishing materials.I thought that the Tru-Stone was supposed to imitate some type of gemstone somewhere. Usually I find a description of the tru-stone color at a jewelry site. Here is a blog that discussed Dino-bone and has pictures that resemble it:
Dinosaur bone jewelry « Snob Appeal Jewelry
I used to think that the gemstone that the tru-stone blank emulates was ground and put into the blank. Now I am pretty sure that is not true. Unless someone can correct me?
I do wonder what kind of stone they use. I would think that it is different for the Gold web blanks since they make the buffing wheels black.
The lapidary side you use more stone wheels, diamond grits and carborundum wheels Harder on the cutting scale a 9 or 10 Mohs hardness scale. The mix of resins and powdered stone was frowned upon big time till the closing of collecting areas for certain materials and the general rise in prices of all collecting materials no matter what, where or once common they were.
They were looked on as faux gems. With the increasing demand for turquoise style jewelry man made substitutes be came popular, Mostly for costume jewelry, and then it moved up as the materials and methods got better into the more expensive lines.
Seeing the success of it, they expanded to other materials including corals, tusk materials, cameo's that bear a better look than the all plastic cheap ones. The first area that readily accepted them was in the beaders market, since they use a lot of them and string of real coral, or even some worked tusk/woods can be over $100.00 wholesale and even more retail.
They can be the same material, but might not be. So info on the rock sites may not hold true for the pen material.
As to the gold colored material in the true stone blanks. It is a formula of brass. More than likely one of the brands of Jewelers brass or called Nu-gold, even though it is an old formula called Pinchbeck metal, and a warm(redder) one called red brass that gives a redder gold color.
As Ed said the brass and some other metal in the brass/bronze family will blacken the cotton buffs really fast.
For the dino bone yes it might have bits and shards of dino bone, ground up into a powder along with some of the original matrix that it is found in. It may be a case of adding the color to enhance the reddish color of the matrix or if it a general grey shade of matrix it can be used to give a variety of colors of materials. I havent looked for or at the material as I am still working on the wood, Corain, and assorted resin blanks before starting on the more exotic's.
Hope this may help in clearing up some confusion.
:clown:
PTsideshow
Member
Decorative Bowls, Home Furnishing
Since they say they use Semi-precious stone in the bowl making I am wondering now if semi precious stone is used in the composite pen blank material. Although when you look at the RT main website they say they manufacture IMITATION semi-precious stone for large scale jewelry production. I wish I knew for sure if they used just some of the Real semi-precious stone in the final material. It would make for a good story.
You can not say that the same materials are being used for the pen blanks as their price list for bowls would indicate that the cost of sheet goods of the material for pen blanks would be a lot more than the ones available.
Secondly they say that they use diamond wheels in working the material, so that is a couple steps above the H.S.S. tools that can be used.
They also state that they are making raw stock for the semi precious jewelery trade.
Knowing the jewelery trade if this company wasn't using what it says it is they would be making sinks and bowls only.
You have to remember today! "just because it walks like a duck, looks like a duck and sounds like a duck! It may not be a real duck but a computer generated doppelganger!" :wink:
You can not transfer information from one sites products to another.
:clown:
Fishinbo
Member
Thanks for the query Jzerger.
We are all learning so much from this.
Interesting facts.
We are all learning so much from this.
Interesting facts.
brownsfn2
Member
Thanks PT. The part about the gold matrix is really interesting.
I still like to tell the story about where the "gemstone" is from originally. I think I might say that the material is "inspired by" the gemstone it is named for. That way no one is misled into thinking it contains the actual gemstone.
I really like the material though. It creates a great pen.
I still like to tell the story about where the "gemstone" is from originally. I think I might say that the material is "inspired by" the gemstone it is named for. That way no one is misled into thinking it contains the actual gemstone.
I really like the material though. It creates a great pen.
ed4copies
Local Chapter Manager
I have never talked with RT Research (the source) about what goes into trustone.
I simply realize that we are not paying for jewelry-quality stone, so I am not willing to "find a way to call it" whatever gemstone. We sell faux ivory, why not sell faux gems. There is no ivory in our alternative----there may or may not be gemstone in our trustone! I'm fine with that.
If we ever do sell the real gems, I doubt you will see it for under $20 a blank.
I simply realize that we are not paying for jewelry-quality stone, so I am not willing to "find a way to call it" whatever gemstone. We sell faux ivory, why not sell faux gems. There is no ivory in our alternative----there may or may not be gemstone in our trustone! I'm fine with that.
If we ever do sell the real gems, I doubt you will see it for under $20 a blank.
PTsideshow
Member
The reason I point the above out is the jewelry trade groups. The two big ones are The American Gem Society, and the Jeweler's Vigiliance Committee come to mind, not to mention uncles Sam's FTC. The standards that they have adopted are based on the mineralogical information for the stones. The International Congress of Jewelers in EU area also abides by these standards.
They are divide into Species as the main group chemical compounds; then variations are called Variety; than can be further classified as Groups
People tend to not understand what the trade or the FTC considers correct.
"[SIZE=+1]First things first: the word, "gemstone". According to FTC regulations, which guide the gem and jewelry industry's trade and advertising, only natural mineral and organic materials can be legally and ethically sold and advertised as "gemstones". Other terminology, such as "synthetic" or the equivalent terms "cultured", "created" or "laboratory grown" must be used for materials which did not originate in Nature." The resin stone mix did not originate in nature!
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]So it doesn't qualify to be called real, or genuine what ever stone and as Ed says when they do, he will.
They will the trade groups and the fed's lawyers will be on the fakers as fast as they are turned in. They have lawyers that do it on retainer. Because if the public loose confidence in the trade. A lot of money will be lost.
It isn't worth the chance that you won't get caught!
:clown:
[/SIZE]
They are divide into Species as the main group chemical compounds; then variations are called Variety; than can be further classified as Groups
People tend to not understand what the trade or the FTC considers correct.
"[SIZE=+1]First things first: the word, "gemstone". According to FTC regulations, which guide the gem and jewelry industry's trade and advertising, only natural mineral and organic materials can be legally and ethically sold and advertised as "gemstones". Other terminology, such as "synthetic" or the equivalent terms "cultured", "created" or "laboratory grown" must be used for materials which did not originate in Nature." The resin stone mix did not originate in nature!
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]So it doesn't qualify to be called real, or genuine what ever stone and as Ed says when they do, he will.
They will the trade groups and the fed's lawyers will be on the fakers as fast as they are turned in. They have lawyers that do it on retainer. Because if the public loose confidence in the trade. A lot of money will be lost.
It isn't worth the chance that you won't get caught!
:clown:
[/SIZE]
jzerger
Member
I don't mean to belabor this
Thread and certainly appreciate the numerous informative responses; however, in informing the folks at a jewelry store that sells some of my pens I have quoted (from psi catalog) that "trustone blanks are made by a unique process of pulverizing semi-precious stones into a powder, then combines them with other natural pigments and resins". It made sense to draw the conclusion that there actually is "more than 85percent stone " in the blank. For example, it isn't hard to suspect there is some turquoise or sodalite or jasper or jade ... In the blank as the required material is likely "useless" (being pulverized) for other uses in the field. But I could find no such "semi-precious" stone called red Dino bone. The reason Im concerned is that the trustone pens sell quite well for me (good story) and bring quite a bit more (as others have noted also). I Am trusting the claims of the Tru-Stone (trade marked) hold for other advertised trustone.
I have bought plenty of jade, turquoise,etc in countries that mine it to make the cost of the amount and purity required to make a blank seem reasonable.
Thread and certainly appreciate the numerous informative responses; however, in informing the folks at a jewelry store that sells some of my pens I have quoted (from psi catalog) that "trustone blanks are made by a unique process of pulverizing semi-precious stones into a powder, then combines them with other natural pigments and resins". It made sense to draw the conclusion that there actually is "more than 85percent stone " in the blank. For example, it isn't hard to suspect there is some turquoise or sodalite or jasper or jade ... In the blank as the required material is likely "useless" (being pulverized) for other uses in the field. But I could find no such "semi-precious" stone called red Dino bone. The reason Im concerned is that the trustone pens sell quite well for me (good story) and bring quite a bit more (as others have noted also). I Am trusting the claims of the Tru-Stone (trade marked) hold for other advertised trustone.
I have bought plenty of jade, turquoise,etc in countries that mine it to make the cost of the amount and purity required to make a blank seem reasonable.
PTsideshow
Member
Trade mark means nothing other than they are protecting the name of their product.
Problem is that they are using the terms semi-precious stones in a fast and loose manner.
They use the same description for the banded ivory blanks. It is not a semi-precious stone, as the banded ivory they depict has the look of non fossilized ivory.
Also some of the other materials that they mention are only loosely considered semi-precious stones
According to the FTC guides
Which covers that part.
As too the red dino bone,
Like I said in my other post.
Again as long as you aren't mentioning that it is such and such dinosaur, from such and such time period, or some location as the fossils beds in Utah. It probably does contain some form of dino bone.
So the color is added to make it more appealing.
As long as the store isn't gliding the lilly by saying they are turned from pure gemstone where is the problem.
Also the catalog editor may have just been lazy and cut and pasted the same first description for all their products.
:clown:
jzerger
Member
Thanks PT for sharing your expertise and the rest of you in helping me nail this down (at least in my head). Good stuff
Boss302
Member
If anyone is that curious about what type of stone is used in the process of making Tru-Stone just call RT Research and ask them. I've been buying brick size pieces of Tru-Stone from them for years and they are always helpful and easy to deal with. Don't expect them to tell you their proprietary process for making the product but they will certainly answer basic questions (at least they have for me). I find no reason not to trust or accept their explanation of the content of Tru-Stone.
ren-lathe
Member
Hi Folks,
I was the exhibit tech in a museum til the open heart surgery earlier this year. We have buckets of real Dinosaur bone chips & pieces not to mention whole bones. I have turned a few of the tru-stone dino bone blanks. They really do not look like the real stuff. Also the reason the bones still exist it the original bone material has been replaced by minerals permeating through them by ground water over the centuries. The materiel is extremely hard & brittle. Also from what I have seen most of the red dinosaur bone is Mongolian in origin. Also I have never seen that shade of yellow or anything close. I will see about getting an image of the real stuff to post when I am back up & working. It is interesting.
I was the exhibit tech in a museum til the open heart surgery earlier this year. We have buckets of real Dinosaur bone chips & pieces not to mention whole bones. I have turned a few of the tru-stone dino bone blanks. They really do not look like the real stuff. Also the reason the bones still exist it the original bone material has been replaced by minerals permeating through them by ground water over the centuries. The materiel is extremely hard & brittle. Also from what I have seen most of the red dinosaur bone is Mongolian in origin. Also I have never seen that shade of yellow or anything close. I will see about getting an image of the real stuff to post when I am back up & working. It is interesting.
philb
Member
They also answered my questions when I emailed then.
From there response, it was simply a stone ore base, with pigments and resins. No indication was given as to whether the stone that was being portrayed was the stone or ore that was used in the blank.
But at a retail price of $20, take off the retail mark up, the manufacturing costs, I doubt there would be much left in the pot for adding genuine semi-precious stones! Especially as it would still have the be dyed to get the resin coupler the same colour!
PHIL
From there response, it was simply a stone ore base, with pigments and resins. No indication was given as to whether the stone that was being portrayed was the stone or ore that was used in the blank.
But at a retail price of $20, take off the retail mark up, the manufacturing costs, I doubt there would be much left in the pot for adding genuine semi-precious stones! Especially as it would still have the be dyed to get the resin coupler the same colour!
PHIL
PTsideshow
Member
Here is Google image results for Dinosaur bone jewelery, the more popular one for it is, the one that have been agatized as agate is called a semi precious stone by a lot of lapidaries and jewelry sellers.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Din...QE6aZyAHM2IC4Aw&ved=0CEoQsAQ&biw=1272&bih=547
As with everything google not all images are relevant and may offend some!
:clown:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Din...QE6aZyAHM2IC4Aw&ved=0CEoQsAQ&biw=1272&bih=547
As with everything google not all images are relevant and may offend some!
:clown:
jzerger
Member
I went to the RT Research website and they make it very clear they produce (Imitation) semi-precious... As the word IMITATION appears in virtually every sentence, my initial question has been answered to my satisfaction. I didn't know RT Research even existed when I started this thread. I appreciate yawls (okay I live in NC now) comments, input, etc.
Thanks,
john
Thanks,
john