Walnut seems soft

[rjwolfe3]

My wife was turning a walnut pencil to match her walnut pen. The blank is "landfill" walnut from Victor. The problem she is having is that the walnut seems to be very soft. It was my understanding that walnut is a hard wood. It also had a lot of open grain that we had to fill with CA prior to finishing. Does this seem like characteristics of walnut?

Thanks

 

[redfishsc]

Open grain-- yes. It does vary with walnut, but it is not a closed-grain wood like Osage or maple.


Soft? Perhaps. Compared to, say, cocobolo, purpleheart, lignum, ironwood, bocote, etc... it is REALLY soft. But compared to basswood, soft maple, and American Cherry, it is harder. It does NOT rank among the hardest woods in the world, not by a long-shot, even when in the best of conditions.

I recently roughed out two bowls from spalted walnut that were almost soft as cork. Final turning on them will be interesting, to say the least[B)].

If the wood is old and has been exposed to moisture, it may be well along in the deterioration process, while still having some color.


Wood that is decaying has a distinct smell, especially if it is spalting. If you know that smell, you should also know to throw on a respirator b/c the spalting fungi can sometimes spalt your lungs (not nearly as pretty as spalting in the wood).

 

[rdunn12]

In my experiences with walnut it can be soft and have open grain.There are a lot of variables with any wood.No two pieces are or ever will be the same.That's the beauty of it.Ronald.

 

[rlharding]

It's whether a tree is deciduous or coniferous that dictates a wood being soft or hard. Therefore a hard wood (Coniferous) can then be soft.

And any wood can become soft in consistencey. All you wife needs to do is use CA as she works along.

 

[THarvey]

The one consistent characteristic of walnut, I have noticed, it that it is completely inconsistent.

T

 

[redfishsc]

Originally posted by rlharding

It's whether a tree is deciduous or coniferous that dictates a wood being soft or hard. Therefore a hard wood (Coniferous) can then be soft.

And any wood can become soft in consistencey. All you wife needs to do is use CA as she works along.

I would have to disagree with your logic. Woods typically referred to as "hard woods" are not conifers but deciduous. And the two terms "hardwood" and "softwood" have, strangely, little to do with hardness. Pine, fir, spruce-- all conifers and graded as "softwoods". Walnut, maple, oak, etc... are deciduous and graded as hardwood.

The term "hardwood" and "softwood" does, usually, refer to whether it's a conifer or deciduous, but ONLY because they are graded differently.


Just to prove the case, Basswood is technically a "hardwood" but has a Janka hardness of 410, but Southern Yellow Pine is technically a "softwood" and is more than *twice* as hard as Basswood (870).


Walnut is 1010, ebony is 3220, Ipe is 3684, and Lignum Vitae and Snakewood are off the charts at 4000-something (I forget and they aren't on this chart).


See this chart

http://www.countyfloors.com/about_janka.html

 

[Russianwolf]

I've always had a problem calling Balsa a Hardwood.

Walnut can vary greatly in appearance and hardness as was mentioned. And I'm talking about nice wood that hasn't deteriorated at all.

 

[GBusardo]

Besides walnut being soft compare to some of the woods we turn, it makes me sneeze [B)]

 

[rlharding]

Deciduous/coniferous:

Redfish, this is what I was taught many years ago when I was a cabinet maker:

"There are two types of wood: soft and hard wood. The words hard and soft wood comes from the type of tree it came from. So a hard pice of wood could be a soft wood."


This is taken from below.

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodworking

 

[DCBluesman]

From http://www.howstuffworks.com/question598.htm

The distinction between hardwood and softwood actually has to do with plant reproduction. All trees reproduce by producing seeds, but the seed structure varies. Hardwood trees are angiosperms, plants that produce seeds with some sort of covering. This might be a fruit, such as an apple, or a hard shell, such as an acorn.

Softwoods, on the other hand, are gymnosperms. These plants let seeds fall to the ground as is, with no covering. Pine trees, which grow seeds in hard cones, fall into this category. In conifers like pines, these seeds are released into the wind once they mature. This spreads the plant's seed over a wider area.

For the most part, angiosperm trees lose their leaves during cold weather while gymnosperm trees keep their leaves all year round. So, it's also accurate to say evergreens are softwoods and deciduous trees are hardwoods.

The hardwood/softwood terminology does make some sense. Evergreens do tend to be less dense than deciduous trees, and therefore easier to cut, while most hardwoods tend to be more dense, and therefore sturdier. But, as the classification of balsa wood demonstrates, there is no minimum weight requirement to become a hardwood.

 

[alamocdc]

Rob, what your wife experienced is not all that uncommon with Walnut. I've turned some that seemed harder than Beech and I've turned some that seemed more like Cypress or Redwood. You just never know until you get into it. Walnut can also spalt w/o it being obvious and this can soften the wood considerably.

 

[leehljp]

I agree with Billy on walnut. I still have some stored from a tree that I used to swing on as a kid more than 50 years ago. It was located in a small river (bayou) bottom and had water all the time. It was harvested in the early '60s and dad used some in a house and kept some. That was / is some of the hardest walnut I have ever seen. My impressions of walnut were derived from that tree and I always thought that walnut was hard as oak and almost as dense as maple. Those few boards I have left, even today, are heavy and hard and fairly tight grained, not lots of open pores. And yes it is walnut.

 

[rjwolfe3]

I guess I should have clarified some more. Both pieces of walnut can from the same original board I believe. They both looked identical as far as grain and cut. Both came at the same time from Victor. Is it possible to be that much variation in one piece of wood?

 

[alamocdc]

In a word, yes. I have one board that had a section of somewhat "punky" wood in it. Visually I can't tell the difference, but I can feel it. Especially with tools.

 

[Ron in Drums PA]

Walnut is soft.

Here is another harness scale
http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm

I've seen the scale Redfish linked to. I never understood why there are 2 janka scales for wood. At least they are consistent with each other. Between the two scales most woods are covered.

BTW Balsa is a hardwood

 

[Chasper]

The one consistent characteristic of walnut, I have noticed, it that it is completely inconsistent.

I couldn't agree more, it may be different from one blank to the next that were cut from the same board. Color can also vary greatly, as a general rule, subject to frequent exceptions, the darker the color the less it will tear out and better it will take a finish.

 

[Rifleman1776]

All above on target. Walnut is one of the least popular woods for penturners. I tried giving away some blanks and had no takers. That should tell you something. For larger items, like bowls, it can be fine. And for flatwork, it is the king. But not for pens.

 

[workinforwood]

Darn..go figure. I thought for sure cherry was harder than walnut. Sure feels that way when cutting and sanding, but now I know otherwise.

 

[THarvey]

Originally posted by rjwolfe3

I guess I should have clarified some more. Both pieces of walnut can from the same original board I believe. They both looked identical as far as grain and cut. Both came at the same time from Victor. Is it possible to be that much variation in one piece of wood?

I cut two blanks from the same walnut board. The blanks were side-by-side with only the kerf between them.

They were as different as night and day in density, color and finish.

Walnut is extremely inconsistent.