Using Spalted Wood Question

[William Young]

Someone on a general WW forum asked if I could try a spalted wood pen. I have some spalted maple so I made some blanks and glued in the tubes and tried turning a couple but they both blew apart when I was just about "there"
So I am wondering if I should apply thin CA glue to them when they are getting close to the right diameter to strengthen the wood. But my main concern there is that I am not sure if the glue would make the wood and the bushings become inseperable. How does a person get aroumd that without the pen pieces getting glued to the bushings.
I havn't got up the nerve yet to try CA finishing because that is one of my concerns with it.

Also , with ones like those two that didn't work out, are those 4 tubes a total loss or is there a way of re-using them.
W.Y.

 

[patarini]

I wax my mandrel and bushings -- keeps the glue off. Light touch with the glue! You can also remove the blanks, glue them, then put them back on after the glue is dried if you really want to be safe. A third option is turn some wooden bushings to size, if they get glued use a parting tool to seperate them. Good Luck! Greg

 

[tipusnr]

With spalted woods, or any others that need to be stabilized, I have read that you do end up periodically sealing them with CA to keep them together. I have not tried this myself, other than to replace and reinforce knots I wanted to save, so hopefully you'll see a better answer to this soon. Others have put a wax or other finish on the bushings so the glue wouldn't stick to them (again I don't see how the material doesn't transfer to the wood blank).

The one I can answer is reusing the tubes. As long as they haven't been badly damaged I hold them until I am going to reuse them then remount them on the mandrel and scrape the remaining material from them, a light touch with rough sandpaper and they are ready for glue and reuse. Not a problem!

 

[Bev Polmanteer]

If I am using spalted wood I find that especially the closer you get to the finished product the lighter touch you need. Very sharp tools, light touch and wrinkle your nose - works every time!

 

[Doghouse]

I found that the easiest way to turn spalted wood is to use polyurethane or lacquer and a vacuum to stabilize it. In parts, it will cost you about $40. If you do a search, you will find a post on this board on how to do it. I have turned about 10 pens this way and it is fantastic!

 

[William Young]

Thank you all for the responses . That gives me some ideas to work on.

Bev, I tried holding my ears just right while I was turning them but I forgot to wrinkle my nose . [] Darn, what a person doesn't learn eh? [].
W.Y.

 

[Bob A]

When I use spalted wood or burls I will drill and then before putting the tubes in soak the inside of the blanks with thin CA. Spray with accelrator and then run my bit through the holes again before glueing the tubes in. I will also use thin CA as I get close to final dimensions as I am turning. This is something I was told so I can't take credit. I haven't lost a blank yet using this process.

Bob

 

[William Young]

This is an update;

I tried turning another spalted maple pen. I appreciate all your suggestions and help . I tried something to keep the blanks from sticking to the bushings. I just doubled over small pieces of waxed paper ad pushed it on the mandrel in between every contact between the wood and the bushings. I have no idea if anyone has tried this but my two brain cells collided for a moment and they came up with the idea. Everything came off good and didn't stick together so I don't know if it was good luck or good management.[]

For the turning, I went down to *almost* the same point as where the previously ones disintegrated and then I put on a liberal coating of thin CA and let it dry. Then I turned it down with my skew to where it was at the stop and sand point. The wood came off in real long stringy shavings that caught in the screen of my DC (but easily removed).
I don't know why the picture is so far out of focus. Just a bad camera day for me so I apologize for the picture quality.
This picture is so bad that I wont put it in my album in this site but if I can get a better picture of this pen and perhaps a second spalted one that is in the glue-up stage now, I will post them at the same time.
W.Y.

 

[Paul Downes]

I always apply BLO to maple to pop the grain. What I do is turn the blanks down to near their final diameter and the soak them good with BLO. This also gets the BLO in between the bushings and when you apply CA it prevents the bushings from sticking to the pen parts. With spalted maple I apply a little BLO to the bushings before turning and apply CA to the blank when I have turned the blank down to about 1/16 of the final diameter. I've never had a failure doing this.

 

[William Young]

Thanks for that tip Paul. I had no idea that the BLO would be compatable with the CA. Can you go ahead and apply the CA shortly after the BLO treatment? And is that straight BLO or thinned with mineral spirits.
W.Y.

 

[Paul Downes]

I apply Blo first, let it sit for a minuets, then wipe off the excess. I use a paper towel folded up into a thick pad with a drop of BLO on it and with the lathe speed slow apply a layer of CA while rubbing the towel back and forth. I let this set up and using the same towel apply several mare coats of CA. The CA seems to set up the BLO in the process. THis is how I have been doing the CA finish. I tried using wax paper as some have suggested but found it too easy to get runs and blemishs of CA. I then sand out with micro mesh to 3200 and then use HUT waxes and crystal coat for the final polish.

 

[William Young]

Thanks Paul. I will certainly give that a try.
W.Y.

 

[William Young]

I am sure having camera troubles lately . It wont focus when using no flash and of course when I use the flash it shows a bad glare.
Anyway, I went out to my shop this evening armed with the suggestions that Paul provided and tried my second spalted maple pen because the first one wasn't so good. . This one shows the spalting pattern better but the picture sure doesn't do the pen justice.

Thanks again for the BLO, CA tip Paul. It worked out just fine.
W.Y.

This is an edit. After taking the first picture I did some checking on my camera. It appears that the automatic focus has quit working either by a problem or a setting that I am not aware of. So I figured out how to use the manual focus mode and this picture gives a more realistic idea of what that same pen looks like.
I'm getting there. My old camera was great for point and click but this new one with all the bells and whistles takes a brain surgeon to figure it out. I shall persevere.

And yet another edit;
I got the macro mode and manual focus thingys figured out and it took much better pictures in sunlight with the disadvantage of creating a shadow but it was way too dark when I tried one in the shade on the same sunny day.
At least these two show better detail of the spalting on each side of it.

 

[Doghouse]

Look up in the manual about macro mode. You are too close for the camera to focus.

It is better to take a high quality shot at a distance then crop down to the pen. You will retain most of the detail, and keep it in focus.

 

[William Young]

Thanks Doghouse. I just put yet another edit in the same thread because I was determined to get the macro function working. At least I got it working in sunlight pictures so I'm getting there.
I will also play around with your suggestion of distant shots and then cropping the picture out of it.
W.Y.

 

[William Young]

OK, Doghouse;
I just went outside and tried your distant and crop idea. I just used the automatic factory default setting. The focus is not as good as the macro but that is probably my fault. When I used macro , I also used manual focus set at close range. If I had tried manual focus set for a farther distance in these two, it probably would have given me better focus and sharpness.
Thanks everyone for your help. I now have many options that I can try and I hope some of my experimenting has been of some help with anyone like myself that is having trouble taking pictures of their pens.
I suppose this should have been put in the forum on site on that subject but as it is just a follow up of the original topic, then hopefully it is OK here. If it is out of line as far as being in the wrong forum , then my apologies and if the moderator feels it should be moved to a more appropriate on site forum, that is quite alright with me.
W.Y.

 

[jrc]

In the begining of my pen making I had some historic elm that was very porus and I used Minwax wood hardner and worked very well for hardening and sealing. The smell was almost to much while pouring it into a jar and draining it off a few days later. It was alot better doing it outside.

 

[William Young]

Jim;
Where would a person be able to get that Minwax wood hardener ?

 

[paleydp]

Home Depot, for one.

 

[William Young]

Hmmmm ... about a 7 hour drive each way from where I live to the nearest HD. Any online sites?
W.Y.

 

[paleydp]

Got a Walmart nearby? I've seen it there also. Haven't checked Ace hardware, but it's the kind of thing they might have.

 

[William Young]

Thanks.
Wallyworld is just 1.5 hours away and I visit there a couple times a month.
W.Y.

 

[jrc]

Most Hardware stores have it.

 

[Doghouse]

I will be trying it with straight cut red palm to see if that will help hold the fibers together.

It is also known as rotted wood stabilizer.

 

[Old Griz]

Doghouse... I have used the Minwax wood hardener on red palm and it works well.. just cut and predrill the blanks first so it soaks in from the outside and inside at the same time... those palm blanks really blow out bad if your tools are not razor sharp and your touch is not real fine..
I have also used it on some spalted black locust that I cut into blanks and it worked well for those also...

 

[William Young]

I was in town this morning and tried both Home Hardware and Home Hardware Building Centre and they never heard of it. They sent me to Ace hardware and they sent me to McLeods Hardware. No luck.
It's the joys of living close to a small town.
Oh Well, , , I'll be in the city next week and and I'll check Walmart and a few places and if no luck there, I will be in Libby , Montana the whole second week of August at a bluegrass festival and I can try my luck at finding it there.
W.Y.

 

[NCTurner]

William,

By far the easiest way to harden these soft woods, short of having them commercially stabilized, is to coat them with thin CA (not thick!) Depending on how soft the wood is you may want to do it several times while turning. Good tool use helps to keep them from either tearing out and/or blowing apart. Lastly, coat the blank with thin CA before you make your final cut, and you should get a smoother cut, too.

Be sure your lathe is on when you're applying the CA, so the centrifugal force will keep the glue from getting on to the mandrel.

To prevent the CA from sticking to the bushings, put some thin CA on the ends before mounting the pen on the mandrel. Be sure it is dry, obviously. Secondly put a very little amount of wax on the bushing, where the blank touches. I can generally pull the bushing off with my fingers when I'm finished. If the bushing is more stubborn, I simply knock it out from the opposite end with a nail, or rod, or similar item.

Good luck!

Originally posted by William Young
<br />Someone on a general WW forum asked if I could try a spalted wood pen. I have some spalted maple so I made some blanks and glued in the tubes and tried turning a couple but they both blew apart when I was just about "there"
So I am wondering if I should apply thin CA glue to them when they are getting close to the right diameter to strengthen the wood. But my main concern there is that I am not sure if the glue would make the wood and the bushings become inseperable. How does a person get aroumd that without the pen pieces getting glued to the bushings.
I havn't got up the nerve yet to try CA finishing because that is one of my concerns with it.

Also , with ones like those two that didn't work out, are those 4 tubes a total loss or is there a way of re-using them.
W.Y.

 

[William Young]

Hi Greg;
Paul Downs explained something similar except using BLO as well. It is on page 1 of this topic. I tried it and it worked out just great. I appreciate your response and your way of doing it though as well as others so I can practice different methods and see what works best for me.
I want to try some cedar eventually but being so soft, I thought the Minwax wood hardner sounded like a great idea so I will probably get some just to play around with and use the CA trick as well.
W.Y.

 

[Doghouse]

No need with cedar. My wife just finished her first cedar gemini pen and it was not a problem. Very easy to cut, good for leasons on light touch tool control. We used a laquer finish for the durability.

 

[William Young]

Thanks. Could you please explain how you applied the laquer finish. Was it done on or off the lathe.
W.Y.

 

[NCTurner]

William,

I think one issue to consider is that, with BLO, since it does act as an accelerator, it may prohibit the CA from going as far into the wood as you want, making it harden on the outer layers, but not the inner layers. I think without the BLO, the CA tends to soak deeper into the wood, stabilizing more wood rather than just the outer portions. I don't think the BLO is really needed when using thin CA to harden the wood, as the glue will harden without it, but penetrate deeper. If the goal is to strengthen punky wood, I want it strengthened throughout, rather than just the outside.

I'm not a fan of using BLO, but I *think* most of the folks using it for pens do so when finishing, in order to shorten the cure time of the CA.

Originally posted by William Young
<br />Hi Greg;
Paul Downs explained something similar except using BLO as well. It is on page 1 of this topic. I tried it and it worked out just great. I appreciate your response and your way of doing it though as well as others so I can practice different methods and see what works best for me.
I want to try some cedar eventually but being so soft, I thought the Minwax wood hardner sounded like a great idea so I will probably get some just to play around with and use the CA trick as well.
W.Y.

 

[Paul Downes]

NCTurner, you might be right on this. I first started using BLO on figured maple to gain more contrast in the wood, 'pop' the grain. I tried to use some stains but felt that the grain looked 'dirty' so I switched to BLO or tung oil.

 

[Doghouse]

You can apply laquer on or off. Personaly I have been having the best experiance running the lathe at the slowest speed and applying several coats of a very light mist. As the build you get a little orange peal, but a touchup with micro mesh and you have a great shine!