Turning Between Centers Questions

[dhallnc]

I bought the slimline bushings along with the delrin bushings and tried to turn a pen today. I had some problems that I'm sure you folks will have easy answers for.

1. Using the metal bushings without a mandrel means turning one barrel at a time which I did. The problem I had was that by doing so, It was time consuming turning, sanding, then switching bushings to finish once for each barrel.

2. I found it hard to get the proportions I liked without seeing both barrels at the same time.

3. My finish came out with one barrel darker than the other due to uneven application of the CA. between the two.

I would like to have a middle bushing of both the metal & delrin to put in the middle with a double end so I could mount both barrels for turning, sanding and finishing. Does Johnny CNC make those for a slimline?

Any tips, suggestion or is that just the way it is?

Thanks.

 

[Dalecamino]

I've wondered about those types of bushings myself. But, I don't think john makes those. You could send him a PM and, ask. I really don't need to.

 

[its_virgil]

I don't turn between centers, although it is an excellent method. Having a center bushing seems to be problematic...flexing at the center bushing and an out of round pen. I do, however, turn one barrel at a time. I don't think turning one barrel at a time takes any more time than turning them two on a mandrel. If you are turning between centers to stop out of round pens then you may not have another choice since using a mandrel with both barrels is not working for you. Getting the proportions right may mean you turn to almost complete, put both barrels on a mandrel and fine tune the barrels. Sand and finish both on a mandrel or one at a time. Your inconsistent CA finish is not a problem with one at a time. Practice will bring improvement. I wish you well and I hope you get more success soon.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[IPD_Mrs]

Darryl, Before you give up on the wonders of TBC let me ask a couple of questions - was this the first time? AND do you make pens other than slims?

Here's my thoughts - the first time I went "mandreless" it worried the bejezzies out of me (is that really a word?). What I found is this ... Using the mandrel equates to increased spin out (on any pen) for me and I'm using a relatively good lathe (Jet 1014 VS) not a knock off or something which has been centered up very well. I am as nit-picky as they come when it comes down to making my pens flush with the fittings. I can't stand to be able to feel any transition from the barrel to the fitting (doesn't mean it doesn't happen - just means it bugs me A LOT).

I haven't turned anything on a mandrel since I found the between centers gig - but I don't make slims either. I conquer the sizing issue with constant use of calipers and after a while you get a feel for it and know that you want the "rise in the center or toward the end etc." I do NOT completely finish one piece before turning the next. That helps with the "color issues of the CA finish." When I have turned the first side down and sanded it to proportions, gone through Micro Mesh - I set it aside and do the 2nd half of the pen to the same point. Once both pieces are done and I'm satisfied - THEN I put one of the pieces on for finishing (now mind you I have sanded below the fittings at this point so that I can build up a finish a bit.) Once I get that where I want it I have it right there for comparison to the second piece which I do right away.
This accomplishes two things. 1. It obviously gives me both pieces right together so I can see the finish as it progresses and 2. It means I am finishing both pieces under the same set of conditions. I'm not finishing one piece a day later when suddenly it's humid as hades or colder, dryer etc. Environment plays a part on how it looks. It also means that I'm not looking at it differently one day then the day I finished the piece before it .. etc etc. and finally 3. it means that I am able to use the same pressure for finishing on both blanks rather than having a pretty "fresh" set of fingers and pressure on the first side and then fatiguing myself out more when I go through the process for the second side and now am more tired by time I get to the second half and am ready to finish it so I use a different amount of pressure on that half.

I don't know if any of this rambling makes any difference or will help at all. But I do know that IF you put both pieces together between the fittings without a Mandrel ... I'm not sure how they will be kept stable enough that you will be able to apply the type of pressure that often happens during sanding and finishing etc.
Johnny's bushings are awesome so if it CAN be done then I would guess he WILL figure it out. In that aspect I have not one single doubt.

Mrs.

 

[JBCustomPens]

Hope he gets these back in stock soon!!! Get well soon please!

http://penturnersproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_15&products_id=166

 

[dhallnc]

Thanks for the replies and yes that was my 1st attempt and I have only turned slimlines so far. I have yet to get the transitions to my liking.

I guess it's a matter of doing and learning as I go. I just hate spending several bucks making a pen that I am not happy with.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

I just hate spending several bucks making a pen that I am not happy with.

Wait until you start working with $25+ kits and blanks that are $50+

I think you will find that down the road the slims that are not to your liking will make you a better turner, designer, crafter or whatever we are all called now days. :biggrin: Also and on a personal note, I find that slims are one of the harder pens to make as a beginner. I would highly suggest a cigar or sierra.

Mike

 

[leestoresund]

Darryl
Like I told you before, if all you want to do is turn a $3 pen you are spending too much money.

I'd spend some more time working on my technique.

Actually, pens that are worth more are easier and more fun to make.

Just experiment, son. It ain't the end of the world if you make a mistake. (And at $3/pen you can afford to make a few mistakes.)

There's lots of folks on here that talk about the 5 gallon bucket of mistakes.
You haven't been on this site long enough to have a quart bucket of mistakes. LOL.

Back when I taught people to fly I told them I only taught them enough to save their life. It's the mistakes they made that would teach them how to be a pilot.

Lee

 

[johnnycnc]

Darryl,
I think most of your questions have been answered, so I won't repeat all that.
You are getting some really good answers.
And I'll say that between centers is not for everyone, I had to grow into it as a function of my own desires for a better fitting pen barrel.
If YOU are happy with the results you get on a mandrel, ain't no reason to change!

But I do want to throw this out there.. If you are not satisfied with my bushings,
and want to go back to the mandrel..email me and I'll work out a return with you.
It may be the change in technique that is what you are really having issues with, but if it is the bushings...
I don't want you to have my parts and not be happy. I don't think you'll find any
more fair offer than that.
Bottom line..I just don't have unhappy customers if they will make me aware of their issues and let me help.

Take care,
John

 

[toddlajoie]

Eric (holmger) turned me on to using a piece of drill rod stock for putting both barrels in the lathe at the same time using TBC bushings to make slimlines without using the center band. You could do the same thing with a slim bushing in the middle if you wanted to size it for the center band (or just measure with calipers as Mike suggests) I forget the proper drill rod size, but a quick measure of the inside diameter of the slimline tube will give you the size you're after. Once you have that, just cut a piece off that will fill most of the space between the other bushings, but leave some room for options (with or without the center band, differences in barrel lengths, etc) and you're good to go with both barrels on the lathe at the same time. I would consider the drill rod as disposable as the mandrel if it were to get bent, it's likely to happen occasionally, but I'm sure it would be much cheaper to replace than a mandrel.

 

[PenMan1]

Darryl,
I think most of your questions have been answered, so I won't repeat all that.
You are getting some really good answers.
And I'll say that between centers is not for everyone, I had to grow into it as a function of my own desires for a better fitting pen barrel.
If YOU are happy with the results you get on a mandrel, ain't no reason to change!

But I do want to throw this out there.. If you are not satisfied with my bushings,
and want to go back to the mandrel..email me and I'll work out a return with you.
It may be the change in technique that is what you are really having issues with, but if it is the bushings...
I don't want you to have my parts and not be happy. I don't think you'll find any
more fair offer than that.
Bottom line..I just don't have unhappy customers if they will make me aware of their issues and let me help.

Take care,
John

They only bushings out there that are better than John's are mine! The only reason mine are better is because I don't have to wait for the postman to deliver the package, I have free Corian running out of my ying yang, and making bushings so that I can make pens keeps me out of housework.

IF I WERE A SINGLE MAN, OR COULD AFFORD A MAID, I'd pay somebody to haul off all this Corian and order from John!

 

[dhallnc]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

Johnny, the bushings are not the problem, it's my technique.

Lee, it's not my goal to make $3 pens, but I would not feel pride in giving the pens I have made away. I want to turn out products that I can sell or give as gifts and be proud of, but I would not give away the pens I have made thus far. They are not items I would want my reputation attached to.

I have just got to think through what I'm doing and why I don't like what I am ending up with. I think I had it in my head that this was a very simple idiot proof process that I good breeze through with a perfect results. I was wrong.

I'm just a little ****ed at myself for not breezing through it.

Anyhow; I'll try again tomorrow.

I sincerely appreciate the help you folks offer. Let's be grateful I'm not trying to split an atom.

 

[edavisj316]

I agree with Mike. The Slim-Lines are not hard to make. But they do seem to be harder to make look good. I am also making Cigars, Sierras and Europeans. It seems to be a lot more easy to get the "line" right on the others. The European poses a challenge because of the tennon, but the challenge is part of why I am doing this.

Get you a set of transfer pins from Harbor Freight and a bunch of extra tubes and take apart the pens you don't like. I have disassembled most of the first pens I did and either started over, reshaped or just redid the finish. I took to the turning fairly quickly. It took a while to get the finish where I wanted it. Many of the first pens that I thought looked pretty good, now look pretty bad. Thus they are getting refinished. So I am only out the cost of the blank.

I used to have a saying when I was a flight instructor too. "I can teach a monkey to fly if I have enough bananas...So, do you like bananas?"

Eat lots of bananas and keep at it...that's what I am doing.

Ed<><

 

[turff49]

Darryl, have you had another turner there while you are turning? It really can save you loads of time and frustration simply by someone being there that has some experience, even if they are only there for 20 minutes. Where are you located? I'm sure one of us would be more than happy to give you a little assistance. And if you are somewhere where their isn't anyone then the next best thing is videos.
One thing to remember is to have sharp tools. A slightly dull tool will still cut but you have to apply more pressure. The more pressure you apply the greater risk of it becoming out of round from the slight flexing. Let's know how we can help!
Brian

 

[ctubbs]

I am way too cheap to throw away the brass tubes when the pen looks like that. I just practice turning with one of the tools that I haven't used much and cut the blank off the tube, clean the glue and stuff it back into another blank to mess up. Great practice, saves the tube and the 55 Gallon barrel fills less often.
Charles