Tried epoxy, getting bad results

[BigguyZ]

OK, so even though it sounds like more of a hassle than poly glue or CA, I decided to try epoxy since a lot of respected members say it's a good way to go (not that respected members don't use CA or poly, I've just already tried those).

So I picked up a package of Locktite 60 min epoxy. The trouble I'm having is the glue is getting gummy, but not hard. This is a day or two after the epoxy is used. It's getting cooler, so maybe that's the problem. But I don't know.

Could it be too much hardener, and not enough resin? Too much resin, not enough hardener? Crappy product?

I had a blank of ambonya burl all set up for my first Gent pen from CUSA. It's also the most expensive pen I've had bought/ commissioned so far. Anyways, I had gone through the process of gluing the tubes and squaring everything then the tube started sliding in the blank while I was turning it! Had to remove the tube, burn off the epoxy with a torch, and clean out the blank. I re-glued with CA and it's holding. So all's not lost.

Advice/ directions appreciated as always.

Thanks!

 

[Chief Hill]

USE 5 min quick set epoxy instead. I would never use the 60 min.
5min drys hard as a rock,
I dont even bother anymore. I CA everything.

 

[lorbay]

I use the 20 min from CSUSA and have never had any problems like that, evan after the shelf life date.

Lin.

 

[Randy_]

Unless the epoxy is old and past its prime, I would guess you did not get equal parts of resin and hardener and it is not setting up like it should. (need more hardener)

You do need a proper temp. to get it to set up. Not sure exactly what the lower limit is; but less than 60° is probably going to be a problem.

 

[roddesigner]

For once I disagree with Randy we use a lot of epoxy in rodbuilding gluing various components and the more even the mix the better the results BUT if you use to much hardener it will never cure a little over on the resin is ok but not hardener

 

[Spec Grade]

I've used epoxy on various things for many years. What I've found out is to make sure it's fresh for one thing. Use equal amounts of resin & catalyst. Mix well, until you have a uniform color. It might take several minutes to achieve proper consistency. Spread it on both parts, and assemble.
Try to use it in lower humidity. Anything above 50-60% RH will slow the hardening, and maybe even prevent it altogether.
Of course, each epoxy is different, so your model may vary.

 

[workinforwood]

I never have this problem. I use 5 min Loctite epoxy in the double syringe and eyeball it as it comes out. It doesn't have to be a perfect 50/50 mix, just real close is fine. And yes...less hardener is better than more.

 

[bitshird]

I'd guess the mix wasn't 50-50 I get my epoxy from Mannie, and the thing people don't seen to understand is the 5 min. or 1 hr is the WORKING TIME not the time before is ready to put stress on,

 

[BigguyZ]

Well, it was the expoxy in the two bottles, since it was a far better value and I have a ton of kits to glue up. I'll try going easy with the hardener, as I may have used more hardener than resin.

I'll follow up the results.

 

[Manny]

Try Mannies 5 min epoxy. I have never had a problem with it. I use CA for wood and epoxy for acrylics and resins.

http://woodenwonderstx.com/WWBlue/NewGlueWS.html

 

[Daniel]

I have the two separate bottles stuff as well. I have noticed that if it gets two old it is much slower in setting up, It will eventually set but it has at times taken a few days to get there. Even amount is also important but I did not know that to much hardener would be the worse of the two evils. learn something new every day.

 

[Randy_]

For once I disagree with Randy we use a lot of epoxy in rodbuilding gluing various components and the more even the mix the better the results BUT if you use to much hardener it will never cure a little over on the resin is ok but not hardener

John: We don't really disagree at all. Perhaps my comment was unclear; but what I was trying to say was that perhaps "LESS" than 50% hardener was used and he needed to use more hardener to get the mix to 50/50. I certainly would never advocate increasing the hardener/resin ratio to more than 50/50!!

 

[jkeithrussell]

5 min epoxy always works great for me -- I use it almost exclusively on all of my blanks as I'm trying not to use CA on anything if I can avoid it. I agree with the sentiment that you should use 5 minute instead of 60 and that you may have goofed the mixture. Excessive heat generated during turning or sanding can also cause the epoxy to melt.

 

[mtgrizzly52]

I never use epoxy for my pen turning though I don't know why. I guess I like the convenience of CA and have never had an issue with CA. But that is neither here nor there.

I do use a lot of epoxy though in my custom fly rod building business, and a couple of things are critical for a good set.

1. Use a good glue that is fresh (repeating others)
2. Room temperature does make a difference. I never glue anything with epoxy if the room temp is below 70 degrees. With the humidity we get in Northwest Montana, 70+ seems to be the magic number.
3. If I am using epoxy out of bottles, then I use syringes to measure the amount of the hardener and the resin to equal amounts. Do not use syringes you buy at the drugstore as they have silicone products in the plastic mix and that is contaminate your mixture. Instead order a good set of epoxy glue syringes from a rod making supply house.
4. Finally I mix the heck out of the resin and hardener until it is no longer milky looking. You want your mix to be as clear as possible.

One last thing, 5 minute epoxy is what I would use if I used it on pens, and then let it sit for at least 12 hours and better still, I'd probably glue up today and turn tomorrow.

Just some tips from my point of view.

Rick (mtgrizzly52)

 

[GouletPens]

What everyone else said. I've used 3 different brands of epoxy (all 5-min) and only one of them gave me problems. I didn't have it long, but it did do the gummy thing you're talking about. I bought it from someone at a woodworking show, and who knows how long they were dragging them around, how they were stored, etc. I threw it out and use either stuff I get from Mannie or Loctite I get from Home Depot.

 

[roddesigner]

I haven't tried this yet with the 5 min epoxy but what we use in rodbuilding hardener and resin is similar and if the resin gets old it will begin to crystallize heating(warming) in a microwave for a few seconds will return it to it's original consistency and allow for smother flow and mix- note if you warm both it will set up way to fast.

Randy sorry if I learned one thing from on line forums it is all to easy to misunderstand a written comment

 

[GouletPens]

I haven't tried this yet with the 5 min epoxy but what we use in rodbuilding hardener and resin is similar and if the resin gets old it will begin to crystallize heating(warming) in a microwave for a few seconds will return it to it's original consistency and allow for smother flow and mix- note if you warm both it will set up way to fast.

Randy sorry if I learned one thing from on line forums it is all to easy to misunderstand a written comment

John, is this microwaving trick a one-time deal, or do you need to microwave the resin every time before using it once it starts to get old?

 

[roddesigner]

Brian it depends on just how long you keep the epoxy normally if you use it fairly often you only need to do it once, if it starts to crystallize again you can pop it back in
Note only a few seconds at a time the smaller the amount of resin remaining the less time in the micro loosen the cap or it can lead to big family problems

OR seal it and place it in a basin of very hot water which will work also you may have to add additional hot water not boiling

 

[writestuff]

Biguyz!

I use a product named "Acraglas" which is a four hour set up epoxy. I'm on the last few ozs of a thirty five oz bottle that I bought in 1988. It mixes 4:1 and as has been already pointed out does not harden with too much hardner. I mix it ,apply it and insert the tube, and set it aside. I usualy set up several blanks at once. It cleans up well with common household vineger. To mix it, I count drops. The resin from a large Mustered dispenser, and the hardner from the original container. I have used this for many years, and have not seen any that will outperform it. While I am sure that four hours seems a long time, I tryto glue tubes as the last shop operation of the day.
Another Tip about glue overspill into the tube. I keep a no. of bore cleaning brushes in various calibers which when drill mounted nicely clean out the glue residu. Good luck with you next glu job whatever product you use.
WS

 

[Randy_]

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1038/Product/ACRAGLAS_GEL_reg_#

 

[writestuff]

Thanks Randy!

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1038/Product/ACRAGLAS_GEL_reg_#

It is "good stuff"
WS:redface:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Lots of replies here, I'm probably dittoing.
I use 5 min in the double syringe. It is more expensive than larger bottles but stays fresh and, I believe, in the long run, more economical since there is no waste.
Curing times can vary. I glue in tubes and do not attempt to turn until they have set overnight.

 

[Randy_]

.....I use 5 min in the double syringe......Curing times can vary. I glue in tubes and do not attempt to turn until they have set overnight.

If you are going to let it set up overnight anyway, Frank, why not purchase one of the other mixtures that has a longer working time?

And here is a conundrum for epoxy users.

My 5 minute epoxy says:
Set up: 5 minutes
Handle: 20 minutes
Full strength: 24 hours

My regular epoxy says:
Set up: 30 minutes
Handle: 2 hours
Full strength: 8 hours