Tool help needed

[Doug Thompson]

Hello, if you don't know me I'm a woodturner (hats) and Thompson Lathe Tools.

First... I know nothing about turning pens, that said;

What tools are used most when turning pens? I have some 1/4 diameter round stock that will be milled for this batch, should spindle gouges or detail gouges be made or just make both? I've been asked to make a round skew blank... what else could be done?

The second part of the quesion is how long should they be made and what length should the flute be milled. My first though is a 4 inch length (sticking out from the handle) and a 2-1/2 flute.

Could you please give some ideas how pen turning tools should be made.

Thanks for your help,
Doug

 

[its_virgil]

I turn pens with a skew almost exclusively...from start to finish...wood and acrylic. I use a 1.5 inch oval skew to start and change to smaller skews as I get closer to finishing the turning. I seldom use spindle gouges although most probably do. I also don't consider the smaller tools sold as "pen making tools" to be the best choice. My info may not help but other's info may answer your questions. I have a few "Thompson" tools and love them. I will keep an eye out for what you make for pen turning, especially skews.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Hello, if you don't know me I'm a woodturner (hats) and Thompson Lathe Tools.

First... I know nothing about turning pens, that said;

What tools are used most when turning pens? I have some 1/4 diameter round stock that will be milled for this batch, should spindle gouges or detail gouges be made or just make both? I've been asked to make a round skew blank... what else could be done?

The second part of the quesion is how long should they be made and what length should the flute be milled. My first though is a 4 inch length (sticking out from the handle) and a 2-1/2 flute.

Could you please give some ideas how pen turning tools should be made.

Thanks for your help,
Doug

 

[stevers]

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the addiction.
I use a couple of tools. I use a 3/4" gouge and a 1" gouge for most roughing and some shaping. I also use a 1" Sorby oval skew for some work. I am still learning the skew.

 

[jcollazo]

Hi Doug,

I also use a 1-1/4" skew (one of yours) for most of my work. There's also a 3/4" gouge somewhere that rarely sees the light of day. Full size tools are the way to go.

A round skew you say? Not just oval but fully round? Now that could be interesting!

 

[Ligget]

Doug welcome to the group, I start on the square pen blank with a roughing gouge this easily cuts through the edges and down to a smooth cylinder.

I then use a skew to remove the remaining material but I favour the little skew that is commonly referred to as penturning skew and comes in a set of 3 different tools.

Whether I am working on wood or acrylic blanks I use the same tools.

 

[marcruby]

Doug;
Very few penmakers use anything else besides a skew and an SRG as far as I can tell, me included. That being said, I've never been happy with my small detail gouge. I'd like it a bit longer than your measurements - say 3" flute and 5" working length.

PS: I love my 3/4" v bowl gouge!!

Marc

 

[Rudy Vey]

I mainly use a standard spindle gouge, and would like a longer, say 4" flute. The gouges I use are normally 3/8 or 1/2" - don't use a 1/4" at all (although I have one).

 

[talbot]

Hi Doug,
Ive several of your tools but I don't use them for turning pens, no reflection on your tools I assure you, I love them.
For pens I use a continental gouge and a skew, but recently started using a round bar skew, see above, and also now a 3 point tool both of which I find great for acrylics. Both of these are made from 3/8 round bar.
They have shorter handles, about 6" and the bar length is also about 6".

Hope you decide to have a go at them.
Kind regards
Bill

 

[Wildman]

Went to your web site was surprised you don't offer any roughing gouges You might consider making and offering a roughing gouge.

Your regular spindle gouges and skew chisels will do a fine job of turning pen.

Detail gouges little expensive for pen turning, certainly okay if a turner already has one.

Have been looking at getting a round skew for years. Wouldn't buy one for just making pens. Already have 5 or 6 regular skew chisels in various sizes.

I use a ¾" roughing gouge and ½ skew chisel for making pens. Am not above grabbing a 3/8" or ½" spindle gouge if pen blank giving me fits.

 

[DurocShark]

I use a roughing gouge for 90% of my amateurish pen turnings. I've started really using skews and that is starting to be my round-to-finish tool.

 

[VisExp]

I mainly use a 1 3/8" skew. It looks ridiculous next to a pen blank but I find the extra heft helps, especially when working with segmented blanks inlaid with brass or aluminum.

Depending on the blank and my confidence level I may round a blank with a 3/4" roughing gouge.

I also have a 1" oval skew I use occasionally.

 

[randyrls]

Hello, if you don't know me I'm a woodturner (hats) and Thompson Lathe Tools.

Doug

Doug; Welcome; I believe I have seen some of your work. The hats you make are IMPRESSIVE

 

[leehljp]

I have been isolated in my lathe turning and tool usage, so what I am going to say is from a person that learned on his own and does not understand the full tool lingo used by others here or at other places. In particular, skew usage (when described and seen in photos) doesn't make full sense to me.

Having said that, most skews, in my understanding, have the blade sharpened from both sides at a specific angle. Kind of like a knife is sharpened from both sides.

However an oval skew is sharpened from one side as seen here And so is a scraper. I do not know the difference between these two except one is called a skew if it has an oval shanked bottom and a scraper if it is flat.


Now that brings me to what I use. I generally use a flat shanked scraper ground to look like the cutting edge of an oval shanked skew. The scraper is ground from the bottom side and the top is flat to the end. I ground my own and learned to use this on my own - quite contrarily from the norm.
However I gained enough experience from this usage - that in the last pens that I made, my home made scraper was able to smooth the wood to the point it did not need sanding. I know that some people find this statement objectionable and will quickly question the finish.
. . .So here is the picture of the pen turned with my home made scraper and applied the finish without sanding the wood.

While I was very happy with the final pen and all of the compliments of everyone here, I was tremendously pleased at learning that with some woods, fine turning could be done in which sanding could be skipped. I had previously believed that all pens (and turnings) needed sanding and there was no way around that. I am enjoying what I learned from that as much as the finished pen. This is one time when the journey was as rewarding as the finished product.

The truth is that I had tremendous trouble with the smearing of sanding dust from the "silver" dots, and wondered if a superbly and finely sharpened flat end scraper would do. Well, it did. I keep reading that the scraper is not for fine finishing (smoothing) of the wood for some reason, but it certainly worked for me. I have since made 4 more and had the same results. There are times (most of the time) that sanding of the wood is essential, but there are times that a finished turn is needed in which the sanding procedure must be skipped.

I think it was Eagle, but it could have been someone else, who was well known for his fine pens - and he learned on his own and did not use the normal or most common methods because no one was around to teach or show.

My two yen. :wink:

 

[DurocShark]

Hank, those are stunning.

I've only managed to get two pens (out of a hundred or so) that smooth with the skew. But I'm getting better. . .

I use flat bar stock skews, but the edges are curved now. I seem to get fewer catches that way.

 

[MarkHix]

I started out using a small gouge. Now I always use a 1" skew.

 

[KenV]

Doug,

I use a fairly short round skew for fine details. The idea is the Robert Rosand style. In better steel, I would be good for smaller sizes. The round skew has most of the advantages of the oval, but is easier to use in an intermediate position. I have been learning a fingernail ground P&N bowl gouge (the 3/8 shank little one) with fingernail grind. That has great promise for an effective shape with less length than a regular bowl gouge.

 

[VisExp]

However an oval skew is sharpened from one side as seen here

Hank, an oval skew is sharpened on both faces. It is called an oval skew because the bar from which it is made is oval in profile. You can see a "head on" shot of the business end of an oval skew in the second graphic down at this link:

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Turning_Tools/Skew_Chisels/skew_chisels.html

I don't mean to take away from your comments regarding scraping/sharpening as that is something I plan to experiment with after your success. I just wanted to illustrate the profile that is ground on an oval skew.

 

[MobilMan]

Doug. I've seen your hats on the web and was amazed. How the heck can that be done? Got my answer somewhere, can't remember where. Maybe your sight. "Cowboy" hats & 'baseball' hats. Some beautiful work. I bought the 'pen turners starter kit [3 tools] when I started. Then tried the 3/4 roughing gouge. Ended up using a 3/4 spindle gouge as my favorite over all. Use it 99% of the time. Can be used like a skew also with more control. I'm like Hank Lee-I've never seen a person use a lathe [except a little at a woodworking show] So don't know what else works best. I did buy a 1/4" round spindle gouge long time ago. Thought I'd need it. It's a big long bugger & has never been out of the sleeve it came in.

 

[Larry Gottlieb]

I use a heavy bowl gouge with a swept back grind. The tip works well for roughing and the "wings" are used for shaping and finishing.
The advantage is the heavy tool cuts down vibration.

I also continue to try a skew (because I think that I should) The small skew is good for shaping the ends.

Larry

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I had no idea that there were so many personal preferences involved in choosing pen-turning tools. The main thing that I've noticed is that most of us do not like small
'pen-turning tools'.

Full sized tools seem to work just as well or better than the small dedicated pen tools...

I like a 3/4 roughing gouge, turned to 45degrees for the final cuts to put a nice clean finish on my pens...works well on acrylic too, as long as it's super-sharp. I have had some luck with a skew, but not enough to make it my primary tool...I'm still not completely Skew-Savvy...

Andrew

 

[hunter-27]

1st tools I bought were "pen turning" tools. Basically a waste of money, have not used them since the 1st day I received them, bought a full size set the next day. Not sure this is what you were looking for but I vote skip the small stuff it does not work for turning pens near aswwell as the bigger stuff. IMO of course, but seems that is the majority around here.

 

[Doug Thompson]

I had no idea that there were so many personal preferences involved in choosing pen-turning tools. The main thing that I've noticed is that most of us do not like small
'pen-turning tools'.

Thank you I learned something. This is surprising to me too... roughing I could see any size tool being used but the details personally I like a smaller diameter and just figured it would be on a smaller scale in pen turning. Length of the tool has to be decided now, each diameter has a maximum useable length, the problem with small diameters is vibration.

 

[hunter-27]

"the problem with small diameters is vibration" I think you nailed it!!!!!!

 

[DurocShark]

For those that do want the smaller cutting ends, couldn't heavy stock make up 95% of the tool, with the last 5% having a reduced diameter? Best of both worlds kind of thing?

 

[stolicky]

I tend to use my 3/4" roughing gouge to round the blank and maybe even further depending on the material. I then pretty much use my 1/2" oval Sorby skew. I usually sand through the grits but probably don't have to on many occasions.

I started with the 'pen turning' set and used the 1/2" oval skew for quite some time. However, the shaft was way too short; both for using and sharpening jigs. I have learned to appreciate the length of the Sorby (sorry its not here to measure). I would guess 6-7".

Unlike many others above, every time I try to use a larger skew, whether flat bar or oval, I usually get pretty bad catches. Its probably technique.

If you have 3/8" round stock, that would probably be enough mass to dampen vibration if you made it into a skew. I just picture how thin my oval Sorby is, and 3/8" would certain beef it up. I would be interested in trying one. It would probably be even easier to roll the tool.

I have also read that the wide spindle gouges work pretty good, but I haven't tried it.

 

[Doug Thompson]

What I've learned in the past is no one turns the same and there is no right or wrong... a persons tool preference is what they learned to use well. The best cut is from a skew but the same shear cut can be done with a SRG or spindle gouge because of the large radius of the flute.

 

[leehljp]

Hank, an oval skew is sharpened on both faces. It is called an oval skew because the bar from which it is made is oval in profile. You can see a "head on" shot of the business end of an oval skew in the second graphic down at this link:

http://www.toolpost.co.uk/pages/Turning_Tools/Skew_Chisels/skew_chisels.html

I don't mean to take away from your comments regarding scraping/sharpening as that is something I plan to experiment with after your success. I just wanted to illustrate the profile that is ground on an oval skew.

The reason I said that it was sharpened on one face is that I purchased the oval skew (that was in the link from PSI) - and it was sharpened on one face. I honed it and have been using it like that.

Your link is interesting. It contradicts the PSI link / oval skew. So this is why I am confused. :biggrin:

Oh, one other thing, the link you gave shows the oval skew being oval on both sides while the PSI oval skew is oval on the bottom and flat on the top - another reason for it being sharpened on one face. IS this a British tool versus US tool difference or just PSI's only?

 

[Joe G]

Im a newbie and have made about 100 or so pens and use a roughing gouge start to finish about 99% of the time. If I want to smooth before sanding, I use a shearing cut with a 3/8 spindle gouge... works for me...get good fit and no tool marks.

put a skew in my hand and I just blow the barrels up

 

[jcollazo]

The reason I said that it was sharpened on one face is that I purchased the oval skew (that was in the link from PSI) - and it was sharpened on one face. I honed it and have been using it like that.

Your link is interesting. It contradicts the PSI link / oval skew. So this is why I am confused. :biggrin:

Oh, one other thing, the link you gave shows the oval skew being oval on both sides while the PSI oval skew is oval on the bottom and flat on the top - another reason for it being sharpened on one face. IS this a British tool versus US tool difference or just PSI's only?

I used to have a couple of the Pinnacle brand (Woodcraft) oval skews. They were, looking down the business end, truly oval and ground on each side.

Looks like a difference in concepts.

 

[marcruby]

Lee;

My oval skew is sharpened on two faces as well. It's a Sorby, and taught me to hate oval skews. I'd give it to you if you weren't off in Japan.

Marc

The reason I said that it was sharpened on one face is that I purchased the oval skew (that was in the link from PSI) - and it was sharpened on one face. I honed it and have been using it like that.

Your link is interesting. It contradicts the PSI link / oval skew. So this is why I am confused. :biggrin:

Oh, one other thing, the link you gave shows the oval skew being oval on both sides while the PSI oval skew is oval on the bottom and flat on the top - another reason for it being sharpened on one face. IS this a British tool versus US tool difference or just PSI's only?

 

[VisExp]

The reason I said that it was sharpened on one face is that I purchased the oval skew (that was in the link from PSI) - and it was sharpened on one face. I honed it and have been using it like that.

Your link is interesting. It contradicts the PSI link / oval skew. So this is why I am confused. :biggrin:

Oh, one other thing, the link you gave shows the oval skew being oval on both sides while the PSI oval skew is oval on the bottom and flat on the top - another reason for it being sharpened on one face. IS this a British tool versus US tool difference or just PSI's only?

Wow, now I'm confused and embarrassed :redface: I've never seen an oval skew just sharpened on one side. I have the Sorby oval skew and it is ground on both faces.

I'll have to research that, I can't imagine how you would present a skew to the workpiece if it was only ground on one face. Do you have to use it in a similar fashion to a scraper?

 

[MobilMan]

Seems to me an oval skew sharpened on one side would be the same thing as a chisel

 

[leehljp]

I'll have to research that, I can't imagine how you would present a skew to the workpiece if it was only ground on one face. Do you have to use it in a similar fashion to a scraper?

I think you are right in what you have been writing. As I observe and read, this "oval on one side" is basically a scraper that is allowed to be tilted easily. Until I saw your link for the oval skew, it didn't make sense. I knew that skews were ground/sharpened at specific angles on both faces. So an oval skew should be the same, but with an oval shaft instead of a squared edge of the shaft on the tool rest. This is the advantage of the oval.

BUT PSI offered the oval shafted "scraper" and called it an "oval skew" - I guess - because it could be addressed to the turning from a skew's position. But still it is more or less a scraper since it is one faced.

I really appreciate your link as it clarifies things for me and lets me know where my confusion was.

My Apologies to Doug for hijacking this thread. :redface: And this thread did give me another Bookmark. I have been looking for some tool blanks. Thanks!

 

[leehljp]

Doug,

I mentioned in the above post about looking for tool blanks in the future. I personally like about 5 to 6 inch length of tool and like longer handled tools also. I learned pen turning by using larger tools and they just feel more comfortable to me.

I prefer 1/2 inch wide shafts as minimum but have one 3/8 that I like OK. These are just my preferences - and take mine preferences with a grain of salt because I learned turning on my own and somewhat discombobulated from most. :redface: :wink:

 

[randyrls]

The reason I said that it was sharpened on one face is that I purchased the oval skew (that was in the link from PSI) - and it was sharpened on one face. I honed it and have been using it like that.

Your link is interesting. It contradicts the PSI link / oval skew. So this is why I am confused. :biggrin:

Oh, one other thing, the link you gave shows the oval skew being oval on both sides while the PSI oval skew is oval on the bottom and flat on the top - another reason for it being sharpened on one face. IS this a British tool versus US tool difference or just PSI's only?

Hank; I believe what you have is a scraper and not a skew. Sorby makes a tool that is round on the bottom and flat on top called a Spindlemaster. PSI also sells them as "Versa Chisels"

 

[Grizz]

Doug,

I was just discussing your work with a friend. Looks like I'll be getting in touch with you for some bowl gouges. Anyway, I'd think that if you take a look at Sorby pen set or Benjamin's Best 3 set. You'll get a good Idea of where to go with pen tools.

-Jon

 

[leehljp]

Hank; I believe what you have is a scraper and not a skew. Sorby makes a tool that is round on the bottom and flat on top called a Spindlemaster. PSI also sells them as "Versa Chisels"

Ahhh - just looked it up and you are right! Went to their site and this is what it said "The Versa-Chisels perform as a scraper, skew, & gouge. It is also ideal for beads and coves."

"Pictures" of the Versa Chisels and oval skews look the same in catalogs and on web sites. Thank you everyone for helping me with my understanding. Apologies for this.