Thoughts and opinions please - Page 2 - International Association of Penturners
     International Association of Penturners
Pens for Service Members
 
Support The IAP

Go Back   International Association of Penturners > Community Forums > Penturning
  Forgot Password
Register FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Penturning General penturning discussions not specifically addressed in one of the specialty forums.


Logged on members can hide ads!

Welcome to penturners.org!

You've found the home of The International Association of Penturners. You are currently viewing our site as a guest, which gives you limited access to view discussions, photos, and library articles.

Consider joining our community today. You'll have full access to all of our content, be able to enter our contests, find local chapters near you, and post your questions and share your experience with our members all over the world.

Membership is completely free!!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-06-2018, 10:55 AM   #11 (permalink)
Member Liaison
 
leehljp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tunica, MS,
Posts: 5,528
Photos: 46

Default

Quote:
I kinda dig it and think it would be a very cool look/feel. I'm thinking that it brings in the history of the wood and helps it tell a story, whereas my wife said she prefers smooth pens, so she probably wouldn't like one based on that.
I love the accentuated grain in that pen. Looks great!

Your wife on the other hand, shows the difference in view points and likes and dislikes! Not everyone likes flat finished grain accented wood, or how to appreciate it. (The majority don't, IMO.) People sometimes think I am a 100% proponent of shiny CA finish. I am not. But when someone says CA is ugly or plastic looking in a degrading tone, I take a stand. It is ugly to them. It is not a blanket statement. Shiny sells much better. Sure, one can build a vertical market of clientele that like one kind only, and that is good. That doesn't mean the "shiny" or "flat" or "waxed" is bad or lesser.

Great work!
__________________
Hank Lee

Experience is what you get when you don't get what you wanted!

Last edited by leehljp; 01-06-2018 at 10:57 AM.
Likes: (1)
leehljp is online now   Reply With Quote Top
Old 01-06-2018, 11:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
 
RogerC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 96
Photos: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtriever View Post
I like it; that has a lot of cool factor.
Thanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcpens View Post
Well done, what plating are you going to use.
Thanks. For the twist and rollerball, I'm using chrome. For the Majestic, I'm using rhodium.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockytime View Post
I like the look of open grain. I never fill the voids on a wood pen.
Thanks, Rocky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mark james View Post
I agree with Rocky - Nothing wrong with open grain, and a natural feel.

You may also want to consider some easy trim rings. Not that much more complicated, but a bit more planning, but a nice appearance for plain grained woods:


View in gallery


View in gallery
Thank you, Mark. I hadn't thought of that, but it's certainly an option. I'll do some more experimenting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robutacion View Post
First of all, those old woods can be cut at various angles to increase the grain structure and colours and you can also try making them with the finish you use on this straight grain pen and a gloss finish that way you will have 2 options on finish instead on only one, for repeated pens, the ones that will sell the most will be the ones you need to make more of, regardless what the finish or wood angle, is...!

For me, making a pen out of a "historical" (of any nature) wood should be looking as close as possible with is natural aged looks so, in this case, the technique you used in this pen is to me, one of the best finishes you could have done, however, I prefer gloss finishes generally but this is not a general pen...!

Well done...!

Cheers
George
Thank you, George. I do have enough wood to try cutting at an angle across the grain instead of with the grain, so I'll add that to my experimentation set.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jttheclockman View Post
I am not a fan of the look. But you are the one making. Who will ever remember the story. To me when you say highend store I see $$$ in pens that scream $$$$No screaming there. Ordinary wood pen. Splintering will be a factor with that many sharp edges in wood. Just my opinion. Good luck
That's a bit of the issue I'm having as well. And that's the dilemma how do you simultaneously let the weathered wood tell its story while also appearing high-end?

There's no risk of splintering. It's not like the wood is truly weathered and rough. The best way I can describe it is textured but smooth.

As far as who will remember the story, each pen will come with a custom card with the history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dehn0045 View Post
I like what you've done, it keeps the story but adds a little character. The general consensus on the story woods is that they are usually boring, but boring woods with a good story sell better than beautiful woods with no story. I'd suggest pushing the story as much as you can - the specific building, where the wood was in the building, an old B&W photo... In addition to your darkening technique, you could also try crosscut or angle cut blanks, this can sometimes add unique character.
Thanks, Sam. Yeah, each pen will have a custom card detailing the history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cseymour View Post
I like the look of the pens.
Let's people know they are wood pens.

Great job
Thank you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leehljp View Post
Quote:
I kinda dig it and think it would be a very cool look/feel. I'm thinking that it brings in the history of the wood and helps it tell a story, whereas my wife said she prefers smooth pens, so she probably wouldn't like one based on that.
I love the accentuated grain in that pen. Looks great!

Your wife on the other hand, shows the difference in view points and likes and dislikes! Not everyone likes flat finished grain accented wood, or how to appreciate it. (The majority don't, IMO.) People sometimes think I am a 100% proponent of shiny CA finish. I am not. But when someone says CA is ugly or plastic looking in a degrading tone, I take a stand. It is ugly to them. It is not a blanket statement. Shiny sells much better. Sure, one can build a vertical market of clientele that like one kind only, and that is good. That doesn't mean the "shiny" or "flat" or "waxed" is bad or lesser.

Great work!
Thank you, Hank. And yeah, you've kinda hit upon the crux, and that is the wood/desired effect should dictate the finish. This is something I deal with in the guitar world with every build.

Thanks for all the comments, everyone. I do appreciate all the input.
It lets me know that, for the most part, I'm on the right track, but there are definitely some things I need to address in order to achieve what I'm looking for.
__________________
www.dogtiredguitars.com
RogerC is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 01-06-2018, 11:26 AM   #13 (permalink)
 
JimB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Henrietta, NY, USA.
Posts: 4,119
Photos: 11

Default

I think you should make pens both ways and give your customers a choice! Let them decide what they like. You may also want to consider having pens from other woods/materials for the same reason. The historical woods you choose may not have any significant meaning to some/many of the customers in the men's store.
__________________
Jim
West Henrietta, NY
JimB is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Advertisement
Old 01-06-2018, 12:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
RogerC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 96
Photos: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
You may also want to consider having pens from other woods/materials for the same reason. The historical woods you choose may not have any significant meaning to some/many of the customers in the men's store.
That's actually a common problem a lot of brands and small businesses make — not staying focused. What happens is you dilute your brand image which leads to you being just white noise in the market.

The key to developing a good brand is to identify what you're about and what you want your message to be, and then to be consistent with it. As you well know, everyone and their mother makes custom pens. A good friend of mine here locally has his pens in a jewelry store, and there's at least one other turner with his pens in another store. If I did what you recommend, there would be nothing that separates me from them. If someone wants a different kind of pen than what I offer, there are lots of options available. And that's fine. I'm not looking to capture as much of the local pen market as possible. If I wanted to do that, I'd mark them way down as well.

But that brings up a whole other problem that small businesses make.
__________________
www.dogtiredguitars.com
Likes: (1)
RogerC is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 01-06-2018, 12:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
JimB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: West Henrietta, NY, USA.
Posts: 4,119
Photos: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerC View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
You may also want to consider having pens from other woods/materials for the same reason. The historical woods you choose may not have any significant meaning to some/many of the customers in the men's store.
That's actually a common problem a lot of brands and small businesses make not staying focused. What happens is you dilute your brand image which leads to you being just white noise in the market.

The key to developing a good brand is to identify what you're about and what you want your message to be, and then to be consistent with it. As you well know, everyone and their mother makes custom pens. A good friend of mine here locally has his pens in a jewelry store, and there's at least one other turner with his pens in another store. If I did what you recommend, there would be nothing that separates me from them. If someone wants a different kind of pen than what I offer, there are lots of options available. And that's fine. I'm not looking to capture as much of the local pen market as possible. If I wanted to do that, I'd mark them way down as well.

But that brings up a whole other problem that small businesses make.
You make some valid points but you didn't mention about building your brand in your original post. that is a completely different question than your original question and would get different responses.

On the flip side of not staying focused on your business brand is being overly narrow in your focus and having an extremely limited customer base that will not support your business. The real problem companies, large and small, have is finding the right balance.
__________________
Jim
West Henrietta, NY
JimB is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 01-06-2018, 01:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
 
jttheclockman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NJ, USA.
Photos: 77

Default

Roger

Again I will and not should anyone here tell you what to do or what is best for you but you did bring the question to the masses and you have to be aware we all have opinions and they may differ from yours. You should put them on a pen to give us a better look at the overall package and maybe opinions will sway. Right now as I said I see a dirty old oak piece of wood with grooves.

As mentioned you did not say anything about making this your brand. This by no means separates you from anyone who makes pens. I see a dirty grungy wood pen. I see nothing that tells me a story. Again people who make pens that are historical rely on a card or piece of paper that tells the story. Lose the card and story is gone or is told in so many ways over the years if the pen gets passed down. It is just a point I am bringing up to you. But if you follow this path then do it all out. Have a display telling the story. Have boxes made and sell with the pen that can be made from the same wood with a card clearly attached so it is not lost. Do some promoting.

Feeling wood of a pen can be accomplished in many different ways. You need to protect the wood from hand transferred dirt. Weather it is using CA and cutting back the shine. using a satin finish or a oil finish is all up to you but have different versions available for customers to feel is key. They will decide weather you have a winner or loser, not us. Add some details to them such as some segmenting of black rings to represent hinges from the barns or other details. I will tell you from my experiences color sells and not plain wood. Wood with pretty grain and mixture of colored grains sells big. I mentioned splintering, by all means that design will or should say can splinter especially if dropped. The high and low cuts will allow this. I work with wood alot. I am not some street corner guy selling you a line of ____.

But in the end if you have a business and want to add this to your line then it is fine but to base your business on just this type pen you will have a hard time unless you put above effort to promote. Do not rely on the store to promote for you. I would look hard at the clientele that visit the store also and what are they buying. Tells you what kind of person they probably are. Making the pen is the easy part, selling is the difficult part. I wish you luck and success. Please take my comments with the nature they were intended and that is suggestions not demeaning.
__________________
John T.
Likes: (1)
jttheclockman is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 01-06-2018, 10:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 111
Photos: 0

Default

Small grooves in things handled often generally fill with dirt. Look at a computer mouse, pens with gaps, etc. I wonder if tat will be an issue.

In this market you need to stand out to have success. I have seen hundreds of smooth pens for every rough/textured one.
JPW062 is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 01-06-2018, 11:06 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
RogerC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 96
Photos: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB View Post
You make some valid points but you didn't mention about building your brand in your original post. that is a completely different question than your original question and would get different responses.
Right, which is why my OP simply asked about what folks thought of my technique on the blanks and didn't mention anything about how many different woods I should offer or any other marketing tidbits. My brand is already pretty solid. I've got a 2 year waiting list on custom guitars, and my straps are in over a dozen stores from Oklahoma to California

Quote:
Originally Posted by jttheclockman View Post
Roger

Again I will and not should anyone here tell you what to do or what is best for you but you did bring the question to the masses and you have to be aware we all have opinions and they may differ from yours. You should put them on a pen to give us a better look at the overall package and maybe opinions will sway. Right now as I said I see a dirty old oak piece of wood with grooves.
I get it. You don't like it. You've said that already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jttheclockman View Post
As mentioned you did not say anything about making this your brand. This by no means separates you from anyone who makes pens. I see a dirty grungy wood pen. I see nothing that tells me a story. Again people who make pens that are historical rely on a card or piece of paper that tells the story. Lose the card and story is gone or is told in so many ways over the years if the pen gets passed down. It is just a point I am bringing up to you. But if you follow this path then do it all out. Have a display telling the story. Have boxes made and sell with the pen that can be made from the same wood with a card clearly attached so it is not lost. Do some promoting.
Right. I didn't mention needing brand-development help because that's not the info I was interested in. I was simply interested in the technique of how I "weathered" the wood. Perhaps I could've been more clear on that part.

I believe where you're getting confused is by trying to address things where you don't have all the information information purposefully withheld because it didn't pertain to the question I was asking. I'm not saying that to be rude, but simply to let you know. If you re-read my previous posts, you'll see that these are pens for 1 local store, so there's no need to worry about separating myself from anyone else but the turners in the same town who also have their pens in different retailers. I'm not interested in competing with anyone outside this market (my bread and butter is custom guitars). The store is buying the pens from me and then selling them in their shop. I've already got the display designed and worked out, including custom boxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jttheclockman View Post
Feeling wood of a pen can be accomplished in many different ways. You need to protect the wood from hand transferred dirt. Weather it is using CA and cutting back the shine. using a satin finish or a oil finish is all up to you but have different versions available for customers to feel is key. They will decide weather you have a winner or loser, not us. Add some details to them such as some segmenting of black rings to represent hinges from the barns or other details. I will tell you from my experiences color sells and not plain wood. Wood with pretty grain and mixture of colored grains sells big. I mentioned splintering, by all means that design will or should say can splinter especially if dropped. The high and low cuts will allow this. I work with wood alot. I am not some street corner guy selling you a line of ____.
I agree with you on color. I'm already experimenting with adding barn red to the pens. From my first trial, it really makes the pen pop and adds a whole new dimension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jttheclockman View Post
But in the end if you have a business and want to add this to your line then it is fine but to base your business on just this type pen you will have a hard time unless you put above effort to promote. Do not rely on the store to promote for you. I would look hard at the clientele that visit the store also and what are they buying. Tells you what kind of person they probably are. Making the pen is the easy part, selling is the difficult part. I wish you luck and success. Please take my comments with the nature they were intended and that is suggestions not demeaning.
This is simply a particular product for a particular store. The store owner has already identified this as the direction his clientele will appreciate (this local, old wood), so that part of the work is already done.

Thank you. You seem to have a passion for this which probably contributes to the tone in your post. Passion is a good thing, and I'm not so stubborn or prideful that I can't acknowledge good ideas when I hear them
__________________
www.dogtiredguitars.com
RogerC is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 01-06-2018, 11:16 PM   #19 (permalink)
 
jttheclockman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NJ, USA.
Photos: 77

Default

Roger no passion. See this is why I do not visit this site much any more. You do what ever it is you want to do then do not ask opinions. I told you this was my opinion. If you want favorable opinions only then delete mine and in fact just ignore me. I will not be answering to any of this stuff any more. Not worth my time to post. Maybe next time include more info but you won't have to worry about me answering it. Good luck in whatever you do.
__________________
John T.

Last edited by jttheclockman; 01-06-2018 at 11:18 PM.
jttheclockman is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Old 01-06-2018, 11:23 PM   #20 (permalink)
 
RogerC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 96
Photos: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jttheclockman View Post
Roger no passion. See this is why I do not visit this site much any more. You do what ever it is you want to do then do not ask opinions. I told you this was my opinion. If you want favorable opinions only then delete mine and in fact just ignore me. I will not be answering to any of this stuff any more. Not worth my time to post. Maybe next time include more info but you won't have to worry about me answering it. Good luck in whatever you do.


I didn't say I was only looking for favorable opinions. I simply asked for opinions on the weathering technique. It wasn't until folks started making irrelevant suggestions that things starting getting off track. Here's an idea, if you don't like it when people correct your assumptions, don't make any, mmmkay?
__________________
www.dogtiredguitars.com
RogerC is offline   Reply With Quote Top
Related Content
Logged on members can hide ads
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:06 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

Content Copyright © 2003-2016 by Penturners.org, LLC; All Rights Reserved
Terms Of Service   Acceptable Use Policy