Thoughts and opinions please

[RogerC]

I'm making some pens for a local high-end men's store, and we're doing them from old, local barns and structures. I'll be doing Cortona click, Atrax rollerball, and Majestic Jr. fountain.

Where I need help right now is with how to do the blanks. These will all be old pine and douglas fir, and my initial thought was to just turn them as a normal blank. The problem, though, is that there's not much visual interest.

Then I had a bit of an epiphany today, so I tried an experiment.

Using a technique I've used on guitar bodies, I was able to accentuate the grain to simulate what the board looked like when it was weathered on the side of the barn, and I'm curious what you think of the look.

I kinda dig it and think it would be a very cool look/feel. I'm thinking that it brings in the history of the wood and helps it tell a story, whereas my wife said she prefers smooth pens, so she probably wouldn't like one based on that.

What say you good folks?

Oh, and I was able to get some good coats of CA to finish and buffed out with 0000 steel wool, so finishing this technique isn't a problem.

 

[gtriever]

I like it; that has a lot of cool factor.

 

[hcpens]

Well done, what plating are you going to use.

 

[Rockytime]

I like the look of open grain. I never fill the voids on a wood pen.

 

[mark james]

I agree with Rocky - Nothing wrong with open grain, and a natural feel.

You may also want to consider some easy trim rings. Not that much more complicated, but a bit more planning, but a nice appearance for plain grained woods:


View in Gallery


View in Gallery

 

[Lucky2]

Personally, I prefer a smooth wall, I'm not to into textured pens. But to each his own, I'm sure lots of members will prefer the textured look..
Len

 

[robutacion]

First of all, those old woods can be cut at various angles to increase the grain structure and colours and you can also try making them with the finish you use on this straight grain pen and a gloss finish that way you will have 2 options on finish instead on only one, for repeated pens, the ones that will sell the most will be the ones you need to make more of, regardless what the finish or wood angle, is...!

For me, making a pen out of a "historical" (of any nature) wood should be looking as close as possible with is natural aged looks so, in this case, the technique you used in this pen is to me, one of the best finishes you could have done, however, I prefer gloss finishes generally but this is not a general pen...!:biggrin::wink:

Well done...!

Cheers
George

 

[jttheclockman]

I am not a fan of the look. But you are the one making. Who will ever remember the story. To me when you say highend store I see $$$ in pens that scream $$$$No screaming there. Ordinary wood pen. Splintering will be a factor with that many sharp edges in wood. Just my opinion. Good luck

 

[Dehn0045]

I like what you've done, it keeps the story but adds a little character. The general consensus on the story woods is that they are usually boring, but boring woods with a good story sell better than beautiful woods with no story. I'd suggest pushing the story as much as you can - the specific building, where the wood was in the building, an old B&W photo... In addition to your darkening technique, you could also try crosscut or angle cut blanks, this can sometimes add unique character.

 

[cseymour]

I like the look of the pens.
Let's people know they are wood pens.

Great job


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[leehljp]

I kinda dig it and think it would be a very cool look/feel. I'm thinking that it brings in the history of the wood and helps it tell a story, whereas my wife said she prefers smooth pens, so she probably wouldn't like one based on that.

I love the accentuated grain in that pen. Looks great!

Your wife on the other hand, shows the difference in view points and likes and dislikes! Not everyone likes flat finished grain accented wood, or how to appreciate it. (The majority don't, IMO.) People sometimes think I am a 100% proponent of shiny CA finish. I am not. But when someone says CA is ugly or plastic looking in a degrading tone, I take a stand. It is ugly to them. It is not a blanket statement. Shiny sells much better. Sure, one can build a vertical market of clientele that like one kind only, and that is good. That doesn't mean the "shiny" or "flat" or "waxed" is bad or lesser.

Great work!

 

[RogerC]

I like it; that has a lot of cool factor.

Thanks

Well done, what plating are you going to use.

Thanks. For the twist and rollerball, I'm using chrome. For the Majestic, I'm using rhodium.

I like the look of open grain. I never fill the voids on a wood pen.

Thanks, Rocky.

I agree with Rocky - Nothing wrong with open grain, and a natural feel.

You may also want to consider some easy trim rings. Not that much more complicated, but a bit more planning, but a nice appearance for plain grained woods:


View in Gallery


View in Gallery

Thank you, Mark. I hadn't thought of that, but it's certainly an option. I'll do some more experimenting.

First of all, those old woods can be cut at various angles to increase the grain structure and colours and you can also try making them with the finish you use on this straight grain pen and a gloss finish that way you will have 2 options on finish instead on only one, for repeated pens, the ones that will sell the most will be the ones you need to make more of, regardless what the finish or wood angle, is...!

For me, making a pen out of a "historical" (of any nature) wood should be looking as close as possible with is natural aged looks so, in this case, the technique you used in this pen is to me, one of the best finishes you could have done, however, I prefer gloss finishes generally but this is not a general pen...!:biggrin::wink:

Well done...!

Cheers
George

Thank you, George. I do have enough wood to try cutting at an angle across the grain instead of with the grain, so I'll add that to my experimentation set.

I am not a fan of the look. But you are the one making. Who will ever remember the story. To me when you say highend store I see $$$ in pens that scream $$$$No screaming there. Ordinary wood pen. Splintering will be a factor with that many sharp edges in wood. Just my opinion. Good luck

That's a bit of the issue I'm having as well. And that's the dilemma — how do you simultaneously let the weathered wood tell its story while also appearing high-end?

There's no risk of splintering. It's not like the wood is truly weathered and rough. The best way I can describe it is textured but smooth.

As far as who will remember the story, each pen will come with a custom card with the history.

I like what you've done, it keeps the story but adds a little character. The general consensus on the story woods is that they are usually boring, but boring woods with a good story sell better than beautiful woods with no story. I'd suggest pushing the story as much as you can - the specific building, where the wood was in the building, an old B&W photo... In addition to your darkening technique, you could also try crosscut or angle cut blanks, this can sometimes add unique character.

Thanks, Sam. Yeah, each pen will have a custom card detailing the history.

I like the look of the pens.
Let's people know they are wood pens.

Great job

Thank you.

I kinda dig it and think it would be a very cool look/feel. I'm thinking that it brings in the history of the wood and helps it tell a story, whereas my wife said she prefers smooth pens, so she probably wouldn't like one based on that.

I love the accentuated grain in that pen. Looks great!

Your wife on the other hand, shows the difference in view points and likes and dislikes! Not everyone likes flat finished grain accented wood, or how to appreciate it. (The majority don't, IMO.) People sometimes think I am a 100% proponent of shiny CA finish. I am not. But when someone says CA is ugly or plastic looking in a degrading tone, I take a stand. It is ugly to them. It is not a blanket statement. Shiny sells much better. Sure, one can build a vertical market of clientele that like one kind only, and that is good. That doesn't mean the "shiny" or "flat" or "waxed" is bad or lesser.

Great work!

Thank you, Hank. And yeah, you've kinda hit upon the crux, and that is — the wood/desired effect should dictate the finish. This is something I deal with in the guitar world with every build.

Thanks for all the comments, everyone. I do appreciate all the input.
It lets me know that, for the most part, I'm on the right track, but there are definitely some things I need to address in order to achieve what I'm looking for.

 

[JimB]

I think you should make pens both ways and give your customers a choice! Let them decide what they like. You may also want to consider having pens from other woods/materials for the same reason. The historical woods you choose may not have any significant meaning to some/many of the customers in the men's store.

 

[RogerC]

You may also want to consider having pens from other woods/materials for the same reason. The historical woods you choose may not have any significant meaning to some/many of the customers in the men's store.

That's actually a common problem a lot of brands and small businesses make — not staying focused. What happens is you dilute your brand image which leads to you being just white noise in the market.

The key to developing a good brand is to identify what you're about and what you want your message to be, and then to be consistent with it. As you well know, everyone and their mother makes custom pens. A good friend of mine here locally has his pens in a jewelry store, and there's at least one other turner with his pens in another store. If I did what you recommend, there would be nothing that separates me from them. If someone wants a different kind of pen than what I offer, there are lots of options available. And that's fine. I'm not looking to capture as much of the local pen market as possible. If I wanted to do that, I'd mark them way down as well.

But that brings up a whole other problem that small businesses make.

 

[JimB]

You may also want to consider having pens from other woods/materials for the same reason. The historical woods you choose may not have any significant meaning to some/many of the customers in the men's store.

That's actually a common problem a lot of brands and small businesses make — not staying focused. What happens is you dilute your brand image which leads to you being just white noise in the market.

The key to developing a good brand is to identify what you're about and what you want your message to be, and then to be consistent with it. As you well know, everyone and their mother makes custom pens. A good friend of mine here locally has his pens in a jewelry store, and there's at least one other turner with his pens in another store. If I did what you recommend, there would be nothing that separates me from them. If someone wants a different kind of pen than what I offer, there are lots of options available. And that's fine. I'm not looking to capture as much of the local pen market as possible. If I wanted to do that, I'd mark them way down as well.

But that brings up a whole other problem that small businesses make.

You make some valid points but you didn't mention about building your brand in your original post. that is a completely different question than your original question and would get different responses.

On the flip side of not staying focused on your business brand is being overly narrow in your focus and having an extremely limited customer base that will not support your business. The real problem companies, large and small, have is finding the right balance.

 

[jttheclockman]

Roger

Again I will and not should anyone here tell you what to do or what is best for you but you did bring the question to the masses and you have to be aware we all have opinions and they may differ from yours. You should put them on a pen to give us a better look at the overall package and maybe opinions will sway. Right now as I said I see a dirty old oak piece of wood with grooves.

As mentioned you did not say anything about making this your brand. This by no means separates you from anyone who makes pens. I see a dirty grungy wood pen. I see nothing that tells me a story. Again people who make pens that are historical rely on a card or piece of paper that tells the story. Lose the card and story is gone or is told in so many ways over the years if the pen gets passed down. It is just a point I am bringing up to you. But if you follow this path then do it all out. Have a display telling the story. Have boxes made and sell with the pen that can be made from the same wood with a card clearly attached so it is not lost. Do some promoting.

Feeling wood of a pen can be accomplished in many different ways. You need to protect the wood from hand transferred dirt. Weather it is using CA and cutting back the shine. using a satin finish or a oil finish is all up to you but have different versions available for customers to feel is key. They will decide weather you have a winner or loser, not us. Add some details to them such as some segmenting of black rings to represent hinges from the barns or other details. I will tell you from my experiences color sells and not plain wood. Wood with pretty grain and mixture of colored grains sells big. I mentioned splintering, by all means that design will or should say can splinter especially if dropped. The high and low cuts will allow this. I work with wood alot. I am not some street corner guy selling you a line of ____.

But in the end if you have a business and want to add this to your line then it is fine but to base your business on just this type pen you will have a hard time unless you put above effort to promote. Do not rely on the store to promote for you. I would look hard at the clientele that visit the store also and what are they buying. Tells you what kind of person they probably are. Making the pen is the easy part, selling is the difficult part. I wish you luck and success. Please take my comments with the nature they were intended and that is suggestions not demeaning.

 

[JPW062]

Small grooves in things handled often generally fill with dirt. Look at a computer mouse, pens with gaps, etc. I wonder if tat will be an issue.

In this market you need to stand out to have success. I have seen hundreds of smooth pens for every rough/textured one.

 

[RogerC]

You make some valid points but you didn't mention about building your brand in your original post. that is a completely different question than your original question and would get different responses.

Right, which is why my OP simply asked about what folks thought of my technique on the blanks and didn't mention anything about how many different woods I should offer or any other marketing tidbits. My brand is already pretty solid. I've got a 2 year waiting list on custom guitars, and my straps are in over a dozen stores from Oklahoma to California :wink:

Roger

Again I will and not should anyone here tell you what to do or what is best for you but you did bring the question to the masses and you have to be aware we all have opinions and they may differ from yours. You should put them on a pen to give us a better look at the overall package and maybe opinions will sway. Right now as I said I see a dirty old oak piece of wood with grooves.

I get it. You don't like it. You've said that already.

As mentioned you did not say anything about making this your brand. This by no means separates you from anyone who makes pens. I see a dirty grungy wood pen. I see nothing that tells me a story. Again people who make pens that are historical rely on a card or piece of paper that tells the story. Lose the card and story is gone or is told in so many ways over the years if the pen gets passed down. It is just a point I am bringing up to you. But if you follow this path then do it all out. Have a display telling the story. Have boxes made and sell with the pen that can be made from the same wood with a card clearly attached so it is not lost. Do some promoting.

Right. I didn't mention needing brand-development help because that's not the info I was interested in. I was simply interested in the technique of how I "weathered" the wood. Perhaps I could've been more clear on that part.

I believe where you're getting confused is by trying to address things where you don't have all the information — information purposefully withheld because it didn't pertain to the question I was asking. I'm not saying that to be rude, but simply to let you know. If you re-read my previous posts, you'll see that these are pens for 1 local store, so there's no need to worry about separating myself from anyone else but the turners in the same town who also have their pens in different retailers. I'm not interested in competing with anyone outside this market (my bread and butter is custom guitars). The store is buying the pens from me and then selling them in their shop. I've already got the display designed and worked out, including custom boxes

Feeling wood of a pen can be accomplished in many different ways. You need to protect the wood from hand transferred dirt. Weather it is using CA and cutting back the shine. using a satin finish or a oil finish is all up to you but have different versions available for customers to feel is key. They will decide weather you have a winner or loser, not us. Add some details to them such as some segmenting of black rings to represent hinges from the barns or other details. I will tell you from my experiences color sells and not plain wood. Wood with pretty grain and mixture of colored grains sells big. I mentioned splintering, by all means that design will or should say can splinter especially if dropped. The high and low cuts will allow this. I work with wood alot. I am not some street corner guy selling you a line of ____.

I agree with you on color. I'm already experimenting with adding barn red to the pens. From my first trial, it really makes the pen pop and adds a whole new dimension.

But in the end if you have a business and want to add this to your line then it is fine but to base your business on just this type pen you will have a hard time unless you put above effort to promote. Do not rely on the store to promote for you. I would look hard at the clientele that visit the store also and what are they buying. Tells you what kind of person they probably are. Making the pen is the easy part, selling is the difficult part. I wish you luck and success. Please take my comments with the nature they were intended and that is suggestions not demeaning.

This is simply a particular product for a particular store. The store owner has already identified this as the direction his clientele will appreciate (this local, old wood), so that part of the work is already done.

Thank you. You seem to have a passion for this which probably contributes to the tone in your post. Passion is a good thing, and I'm not so stubborn or prideful that I can't acknowledge good ideas when I hear them :wink:

 

[jttheclockman]

Roger no passion. See this is why I do not visit this site much any more. You do what ever it is you want to do then do not ask opinions. I told you this was my opinion. If you want favorable opinions only then delete mine and in fact just ignore me. I will not be answering to any of this stuff any more. Not worth my time to post. Maybe next time include more info but you won't have to worry about me answering it. Good luck in whatever you do.

 

[RogerC]

Roger no passion. See this is why I do not visit this site much any more. You do what ever it is you want to do then do not ask opinions. I told you this was my opinion. If you want favorable opinions only then delete mine and in fact just ignore me. I will not be answering to any of this stuff any more. Not worth my time to post. Maybe next time include more info but you won't have to worry about me answering it. Good luck in whatever you do.

I didn't say I was only looking for favorable opinions. I simply asked for opinions on the weathering technique. It wasn't until folks started making irrelevant suggestions that things starting getting off track. Here's an idea, if you don't like it when people correct your assumptions, don't make any, mmmkay?

 

[Gregf]

I like the appearance of the texture, adds character to a fairly plain piece. Wonder what affect it would have on the feel of the pen. Watching people buy pens at shows they frequently see how they feel. Almost like Harry Potter buying a wand. Agree with Mark James that the trim would really make them pop.

g.

 

[MRDucks2]

I like the look, what I would refer to as "antiquing" similar to what I would do in my leather working days. If the intent of the pen is display, the texture is fine. If it is intended for use, I would probably coat it to fill in the texture while maintaining the look.


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[SpecialV4213]

I like the look. But I often wonder, and this is about all "high end" pens, would someone actually us this beauty as an EDC? In the end I think you create your art, and let those that appreciate it find. Great work!


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[DJBPenmaker]

I like the look, I like it Lot!!! Adds character

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[Talltim]

I like it. I do tend to like smooth finish better visually and for use purposes.

I agree with mrducks2 that if it is for use smooth is better.

In the end I have seen lots of different things that I did not like that others do.

I was showing pens to a man once and he looked at two pens and said "I think the wood on the top of that one would look great on the bottom of that one."

I was thinking "you have got to be out of your mind. " But I smiled and said, "that would be interesting, wouldn't it."

The customer is always right.

 

[PatrickR]

I make a lot of things from barn wood because I have a lot and it was free. For pens I have settled on a smooth matte finish. Sometimes on open grain wood I will wire brush it and then use a colored filler to highlight it. For more interest look for boards with sapwood or worm holes. The idea of doing them both ways and let the end user decide sounds like a good one.

 

[AJMwoodcrafts]

I like how the grain is popping out more due to your efforts. I'm just not a fan of the look in general.


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[RogerC]

Ok, here's version 2. I cut the blank on an angle as suggested earlier, and I didn't dig the grain out so deep. There's also no dye on this one so we could focus on the technique rather than the finish.

I'm liking this version much better. The wood definitely needs something to add character in terms of color. I'm trying a wipe with red paint to hit the elevated grain and get it looking more like it did when it was still on the side of the barn. I'm just using krylon spray paint sprayed onto a paper towel, but it's not giving me the color I was hoping for. I may go ahead and get some milk paint.

Also, I think using a dremel with an abrasive sanding pad will do a better job of digging out the soft grain and leave it smoother in the low sections.

 

[Dehn0045]

Sandblasting might give you the desired effect, I've never done it myself but it's an idea... I like the the angle cut better too.

 

[MRDucks2]

You may not need to dig out the wood at all to get a highlight. I have noticed on both Oak and Chestnut barn wood that sanding at high lathe speeds will burnish the harder wood and make it darker, changing the character without digging out the softer wood as much. May achieve a look for you without as much extra work. I do like the angled cut of the second piece much better. I have also had success preserving worm holes, cracks, grain and such by putting thin CA in the hole/grain/defect then filling with medium CA until slightly proud. Once dry I sand lengthwise until back down to surface level then sand and finish the entire pen as normal. It preserves worm holes and cracks nicely but will make worm tailings and punky spots change color.


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[thewishman]

I think the original blank looks awesome! The angle cut looks good, too. The texture adds extra interest, as does the color.

 

[PatrickR]

After you mentioned wanting the look of a barn, the idea of painting and distressing came to me also. The wood should appear gray. If you go that route you'll end up with a very rustic looking finished product.

 

[Missyg15]

I really like this. But then, I am a lover of antique woods. I think they would sell.


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[JPW062]

The customer is always right.

I hate to hijack, but no!
https://www.floship.com/7-reasons-customers-are-not-right/
That attitude makes your employees miserable.

 

[DJBPenmaker]

The customer is always right.

I hate to hijack, but no!
https://www.floship.com/7-reasons-customers-are-not-right/
That attitude makes your employees miserable.

They'd be even more miserable if you couldn't make enough money to pay them because of it.
[emoji848]

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[Bob Kardell]

I like the wood with a story!! I have been asked to make a lot of the whiskey barrel pens and that wood isn't much in terms of grain but the story makes it.

I would just try a stain or even bake it if you wanted more color... I baked some maple and the grain darkened and took on certain luster as I understand it is from the caramelization of the sugar in the wood ... it took a while but it looked neat.

One last thought - a lot of barns have tin roofs - add a piece of tin as an accent if you think they need it. I wouldn't add acrylic trim as I think it detracts from the natural look.

Ok one more thought - a local guy sells barn wood trays, tables, etc. but the card with the item has a picture of the barn it came from with a history of the barn. He sells a lot to people looking for something from a certain county... the more detailed history the more meaningful the wood.

Just my $.02




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[JPW062]

Ok one more thought - a local guy sells barn wood trays, tables, etc. but the card with the item has a picture of the barn it came from with a history of the barn. He sells a lot to people looking for something from a certain county... the more detailed history the more meaningful the wood.

That is a good idea.

 

[Rolandranch]

Here's a thought for an antique look. Put some fine steel wool in a bottle of white vinegar for a day and apply it to your blanks like wood stain. I've only tried it once on a wooden gate so you may want to test it out on a scrap piece before trying a blank. I don't know if it would look good on a pen or not... just a thought.

 

[RogerC]

Sandblasting might give you the desired effect, I've never done it myself but it's an idea... I like the the angle cut better too.

Sand blasting or media blasting is just another way to do what I'm already doing and wouldn't really change the end result.

You may not need to dig out the wood at all to get a highlight. I have noticed on both Oak and Chestnut barn wood that sanding at high lathe speeds will burnish the harder wood and make it darker, changing the character without digging out the softer wood as much. May achieve a look for you without as much extra work. I do like the angled cut of the second piece much better. I have also had success preserving worm holes, cracks, grain and such by putting thin CA in the hole/grain/defect then filling with medium CA until slightly proud. Once dry I sand lengthwise until back down to surface level then sand and finish the entire pen as normal. It preserves worm holes and cracks nicely but will make worm tailings and punky spots change color

I may give the burnishing a try to see what effect it has. Thanks

I like the wood with a story!! I have been asked to make a lot of the whiskey barrel pens and that wood isn't much in terms of grain but the story makes it.

I would just try a stain or even bake it if you wanted more color... I baked some maple and the grain darkened and took on certain luster as I understand it is from the caramelization of the sugar in the wood ... it took a while but it looked neat.

One last thought - a lot of barns have tin roofs - add a piece of tin as an accent if you think they need it. I wouldn't add acrylic trim as I think it detracts from the natural look.

Ok one more thought - a local guy sells barn wood trays, tables, etc. but the card with the item has a picture of the barn it came from with a history of the barn. He sells a lot to people looking for something from a certain county... the more detailed history the more meaningful the wood.

Just my $.02

Thanks. I really dig the tin idea. I'll probably experiment with that detail for use on the highest-end pens.

Here's a thought for an antique look. Put some fine steel wool in a bottle of white vinegar for a day and apply it to your blanks like wood stain. I've only tried it once on a wooden gate so you may want to test it out on a scrap piece before trying a blank. I don't know if it would look good on a pen or not... just a thought.

Yep, I've got a batch brewing in the shop right now. It usually takes at least 4 days (I like to leave it longer) to get a good concentration. I've used that technique on a couple of guitars in the past with good results.

This was my first thought to use in terms of staining. Since it's a chemical stain, the solvent properties of CA won't disturb it. It doesn't work equally well on every wood, though.

 

[RogerC]

Ok, here are the latest experiments. I just took the 2 blanks from earlier, sanded them down and tried some different variations.

This is the straight grained blank with paint in the recesses, sanded back, and rubbed with the wood aging solution. It's definitely more rustic.

And this is the angled grain blank. Coated in red, sanded back to remove paint from the higher grain, and then CA top coat. No aging solution.

I think these were very successful. I'm going to pick up some variation of barn tin tomorrow to try a segmented version as well, and I'm also going to do some that are completely natural.

I figure I've got 3 different pen styles to do with 4 each of each style, so that lets me do several different finishes in each style.

Oh, and I also received my order of custom drawer boxes in which to deliver my pens.

I'll put down a bed of excelsior on which to place the pen.