Tell me about 'turning between centers'.

[lago]

I am new to turning(have tried a few things) and totally new to pen turning. Have yet to turn the first pen but I want to try.

I have been reading a lot of the posts here and have come across TBC or 'turning between centers'. Somehow, I get the idea that the mandrel is not needed. At this time, I am about to order a mandrel and mandrel saver from PSI. FWIW, I have a Delta 12" lathe.

I have also seen references to a 60 deg live center. I checked the parts that came with the lathe, which my 'tool fairy' gave me(that's another story) and I think I have one. Don't have a dead center.

Anyhow, which is the best way to go? Do you use a mandrel TBC, how about bushings?

Just looking for more knowledge before I mess up the wood I have set aside for blanks.

Thanks
Lago

 

[TomW]

Check out your friendly IAP library: http://content.penturners.org/articles/2010/turningbetweencenters.pdf

Tom

 

[ed4copies]

If you are new to turning, you will be unlikely to be successful at TBC. It takes better tool control and a lighter touch that is developed.

Start with a mandrel (the shorter the better for learning--short is harder to bend than long).

 

[azamiryou]

Just looking for more knowledge before I mess up the wood I have set aside for blanks.

Both ways work; there's no need to worry about making the "right" choice or you'll mess up your blanks.

TBC does solve some problems with mandrels, and you'll find many turners who have switched from mandrels to TBC. I've never heard of anyone switching the other way!

If you're going to switch to TBC in the end anyway, why waste money on a mandrel and mandrel bushings? One possible reason is because there are a lot more books, videos, and turners around that can show you how it's done. As for waste - I know I feel that I got my money's worth out of my mandrel with all the pens I made before I switched.

But TBC is no more difficult than a mandrel, and you're here at IAP so you have access to lots of information and vendors for TBC tools.

In short - you can't go wrong either way.

 

[edman2]

Both. I turn all my pens between centers but there are other things I turn that require the use of mandrel. Get an adjustable mandrel.

 

[lago]

I think my questions have been answered for now. I had looked at all the items in the library a few weeks ago but have slept a bit since then. I will stick with a mandrel for now.

Thanks

Lago

 

[Lenny]

Whenever I can I turn between centers but I still wouldn't want to be without a mandrel. The suggestions for an adjustable one, or short one, also makes sense for the reason Ed mentioned. IF your budget allows it, getting a pen mandrel saver solves that issue allowing any length mandrel to always be "as short as possible".
I got one from WoodnWhimsies.

 

[Russianwolf]

warning, most wood lathes come with a live center that doesn't play nice with mandrels or bushings. The 60 degree live centers mentioned are used more often in metal lathes and the one that comes with wood lathes is less likely to split spindles. be sure what you have or you can chew up the end of your mandrel.

 

[lago]

Russian wolf......I can remove the live center from the tailstock and it will accept a MT#2. Same thing on head stock. It is a Delta 12" VS lathe.

BTW - what is the proper way to remove the live center from the tailstock? I can use a dowel to punch out the spur drive on the headstock but can't see any way for the tailstock.

Based on the comment about the mandrel saver, I guess that it is used to hold the blanks tight when turning instead of the lock nut?

Thanks

 

[Russianwolf]

I have a big Grizzly lathe and don't use a mandrel any longer so not sure about the later questions.

On the Live Center, if it looks like the this beware.


http://www.grizzly.com/products/Cupped-Live-Center-for-Wood-Lathe-MT2/H3404

You need one that looks something like these


http://www.grizzly.com/products/Live-Center-MT2/H3408

or

http://www.grizzly.com/products/MT2-High-Performance-Live-Center/SB1237

JohnnyCNC and LAndfilllumber can help you out if you need one (just using the Grizzly pics as examples)

 

[Rangertrek]

You should be able to remove the center from the tailstock by retracting the tailstock. It should eject itself. If not, just use the prdvided tool to punch it out. I have a short shaft drill chuck that will not self eject.

 

[MarkD]

I'm not sure if it's appropriate to ask this question here orf if I should start a new thread but the question relates to TBC so I'll ask it here first.

Because of this tread I tried to finish a few blanks between centers the other night. I use the micro mesh pads and I found that the pads are just about the same width as the bank so I could sand but I wasn't able to move the pads back and forth across the blank very much. I typically like to stop the lathre and sand in teh direction of the grain on all the grirts. Could someone comment regarding how they use micro mesh when TBC. Was my method correct or is there a better/different way to do it?

 

[Lenny]

Lago, the mandrel saver does just press up against the bushings and therefore eliminates the need for the knurled nut. It also eliminates the need to add bushings as spacers effectivly making the mandrel "adjustable" in that you only use the length you need. It's primary advantage is eliminating the tendency, (especially among new pen turners :wink, to exert too much pressure with the live center in the tailstock, against the end of the mandrel, which results in a bending (however slight) of the mandrel and therefore an out of round pen blank.

MarkD ... do stop the lathe and sand length wise with the micro mesh pads ... as far as being able to move them side to side that's not that neccesary, just keep them moving back and forth to keep from building up heat and so they wear evenly.

One thing I always forget to mention that is as important to TBC as a 60 degree dead center and a 60 degree live center and that IS A SHORT TOOLREST!!!
Not alot of room when you turn just one end of the blank at a time. That's why Rick Herrell (rherrell here on IAP) is kept busy making his custom tool rests.
I have a video here showing how I Turn between centers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYFhRINVDDE
You can see my custom tool rest in the video. FWIW

 

[PenMan1]

If you are new to turning, you will be unlikely to be successful at TBC. It takes better tool control and a lighter touch that is developed.

Start with a mandrel (the shorter the better for learning--short is harder to bend than long).

OR...possibly the reverse is also, true.

When I first started making pens (late 1970s), I started with a drill press, wood chisel and a shop made vertical tool rest. There were no "kits" and pen making amounted to making matching parts to fit the refill that you had available (Pentel and Zebra were very popular).

When we first got a lathe, I don't think madrels had even been invented, much less bushings. BUT, moving from a verticle to horizontal turning position added so much more precision that the quality of the pens increased greatly. This process involved turning the pen body, THEN clamping on a vise at the drill press THEN DRILLING. Everything was mated up with a simple micrometer.

It could be that if you skip the whole madrel "learning curve" and start TBC and calipers, that the initial quality could start on a higher plain? Just my opinion....and I've been wrong before.:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[dhallnc]

Lago, the mandrel saver does just press up against the bushings and therefore eliminates the need for the knurled nut. It also eliminates the need to add bushings as spacers effectivly making the mandrel "adjustable" in that you only use the length you need. It's primary advantage is eliminating the tendency, (especially among new pen turners :wink, to exert too much pressure with the live center in the tailstock, against the end of the mandrel, which results in a bending (however slight) of the mandrel and therefore an out of round pen blank.

MarkD ... do stop the lathe and sand length wise with the micro mesh pads ... as far as being able to move them side to side that's not that neccesary, just keep them moving back and forth to keep from building up heat and so they wear evenly.

One thing I always forget to mention that is as important to TBC as a 60 degree dead center and a 60 degree live center and that IS A SHORT TOOLREST!!!
Not alot of room when you turn just one end of the blank at a time. That's why Rick Herrell (rherrell here on IAP) is kept busy making his custom tool rests.
I have a video here showing how I Turn between centers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYFhRINVDDE
You can see my custom tool rest in the video. FWIW

Amen on the short tool rest. I don't have one and can't use my skew.

 

[rkimery]

I am new to turning(have tried a few things) and totally new to pen turning. Have yet to turn the first pen but I want to try.

I have been reading a lot of the posts here and have come across TBC or 'turning between centers'. Somehow, I get the idea that the mandrel is not needed. At this time, I am about to order a mandrel and mandrel saver from PSI. FWIW, I have a Delta 12" lathe.

I have also seen references to a 60 deg live center. I checked the parts that came with the lathe, which my 'tool fairy' gave me(that's another story) and I think I have one. Don't have a dead center.

Anyhow, which is the best way to go? Do you use a mandrel TBC, how about bushings?

Just looking for more knowledge before I mess up the wood I have set aside for blanks.

Thanks
Lago

This is the best site for pen turning knowledge for sure! Great library within. Welcome to the site and to the group by the way. I am a self taught turner and ready to go TBC. It is more accurate. Good luck!