Teach me no-kit penturning anyone?..

[FlowolF]

OK, so I've never turned a pen, kit-less or otherwise.

I HAVE made some interesting little rough cylinders, out of bigger, more interesting and less rough cylinders.

I even made a square rod into a cylinder - yay-go me! Heheh...

I have a little Emco Unimat SL and only just started playing with it.

I am used to using tools and working creatively with my brain and hands.

I do learn quickly.

I really don't fancy working up a wonderful piece of wood or composite by hand, only to put in some mass machine produced metal/plastic bits, no matter how pretty they are, and;

I don't want (couldn't anyway) to pay for the prettier parts anyway.

Anyone reckon they could get me started on what I need to be doing to turn me up one o' them thar fancy-schmancy kitless pens?

Clips/spacers/bushes etc. I can make no problem outa silver/copper/brass etc. - I got good eyes too which I need already for making jewellery (I'm sure the same eyes will do?!?)

If y'all thin it's too much hard work to teach me then, well just take it as a challenge!

Thanks in all seriousness though, for any hints/tips/pointers to get me going.

Cheers, and Be Well all!

',;~}~

FlowolF

 

[jttheclockman]

OK, so I've never turned a pen, kit-less or otherwise.

I HAVE made some interesting little rough cylinders, out of bigger, more interesting and less rough cylinders.

I even made a square rod into a cylinder - yay-go me! Heheh...

I have a little Emco Unimat SL and only just started playing with it.

I am used to using tools and working creatively with my brain and hands.

I do learn quickly.

I really don't fancy working up a wonderful piece of wood or composite by hand, only to put in some mass machine produced metal/plastic bits, no matter how pretty they are, and;

I don't want (couldn't anyway) to pay for the prettier parts anyway.

Anyone reckon they could get me started on what I need to be doing to turn me up one o' them thar fancy-schmancy kitless pens?

Clips/spacers/bushes etc. I can make no problem outa silver/copper/brass etc. - I got good eyes too which I need already for making jewellery (I'm sure the same eyes will do?!?)

If y'all thin it's too much hard work to teach me then, well just take it as a challenge!

Thanks in all seriousness though, for any hints/tips/pointers to get me going.

Cheers, and Be Well all!

',;~}~

FlowolF

Go to the library here and read and read and read some more. Then go to the forum about kitless pens and read some more. Get the point???

Do some reading first then ask questions. Look at some of the examples shown. By the way Welcome to the site.

By the way not everyone likes kitless pens either and many like the fancy smancy kits that are out there. Al;so you can do alot with a kit pen to make it look kitless too. Maybe you should try turning a pen first of any kind to get you feet wet.

 

[BradG]

Personally? .... id buy some plain old wood blanks, and some cheap pen kits so you can get a feel for pen turning..

Creating kitless pens is time consuming when compared to kits, and its how far do you want to go with it.. would you be working in wood and plastic or metal, if so which ones, do you plan on plating them or just buffing. the last thing you want to do is invest hours into one to make a schoolboy error. wandered drill bit, under or over turning, all of these things you quickly learn when making kits. I look at some of my first pens and they are horrendous but i keep them for humour value.

 

[Haynie]

I don't want (couldn't anyway) to pay for the prettier parts anyway.



FlowolF

Welcome to the site.

You aren't going to see much out of pocket difference between the kits and the kitless pens. I thought it would be cheaper and I was wrong.

Good luck.

 

[plano_harry]

Welcome to IAP.

All good advice above. The library has all you need to know, and you won't save any money going kitless. A very logical skill progression is turning kits -> then closed end with kit components -> then full kitless.

Harry

 

[Kretzky]

Even with kitless, you still have to buy some manufactured components. You don't have to start with expensive kits, but imho you should start with kits first to learn the skills & processes involved in pan making. These are the skills you take with you to kitless.
I echo much of what's been said; read & research... lots, then practice... lots, then ask specific questions about what you're having difficulties with. Look in the library, you may well find many of your questions already answered.
Asking someone to teach you (on a forum) how to make kitless pens, just isn't going to work. Many of the kitless guys have spent years perfecting what they do, with all their encumbent mistakes, frustrations & throwaways. It doesn't happen overnight. You also have to put some effort in too & I'm sure there will be LOTS of help if you show willing. You may pick things up quickly & you may not. Without knowing your skill level it's pretty difficult for anyone to teach you anything.
It's a long road, good luck, have lots of fun while walking it.

 

[Displaced Canadian]

The important thing to learn how to do for pens without kits is threading. Even threading isn't that hard. It does require the tooling to do it. You will need a caliper for measuring. you also need to decide if you want to make ballpoint, rollerball, or fountain pens. There is some trial and error that goes with the territory to learn the things that can't be learned any other way. Alumilite blanks are good to start with because they are less likely to chip when threading.
Tools, you need a chuck of some kind to hold the blank. A drill chuck for the tailstock, once you put the blank in the chuck you don't move it until you are done. Threading goes much easier with the thingy that goes in the tailstock. For the inside threads I just hold the tool by hand. I haven't done that much but I have found the finer the threads the less problems you have threading. When you are cutting threads lubrication is important. Expect to ruin several blanks before you get anything close to a working pen. If you put a gun to my head and asked me what tap and dies to buy I would say a 12 or 14x1 for the pen cap and 9 or 10x1 for the section. Half the fun of kitless pens is the experimenting to see what works. Keep good notes. That should get you started.

 

[SerenityWoodWorks]

Step one...Go to your nearest International Airport
Step two...Purchase a ticket to South Carolina
Step Three..Come to my house and we will start the process, I will teach you all the proper curse words to say when your threads dont come out right or when you blow a blank up in your face. I will teach you that the first couple of pens will NOT work right and I will also teach you to Blame the dog, the wife or Brooks803 for anything else that goes wrong during the process......

OR....

You can do what all these guys have told you..hit the library and you tube.

 

[FlowolF]

Thanks, folks for all the helpful replies.

It appears firstly I must clear a little something up - it seems a lot of humorous intent is lost in text, not to mention the differences in SOH between 'here' and 'there' across the pond - by my intent my post was full of little baited hooks of humour - me here hoping you all there would get that - *firmly* tongue in cheek, have a little chuckle to yourselves etc. It *wasn't* supposed to come across as somehwat 'trollish' but reading it back with different eyes I can say how it may have.

I didn't think for a minute that *anyone* would be able to teach me what I needed to know by mere forum post exchanges. Why that would just be unbridled madness! ',;~}~

And also, please trust me when I say I am used to doing my research and am not afraid of all the reading needed.

However, I *am* one for leaping in at the deepend and my best learning had always been done hands on by trial and certain, repeated error/failure.

Since I had a most horrifying breakdown of some sort some few small years ago (I won't go into details but the worst of it lasted a solid 12 months, and the remainder hasn't left me yet), I've been researching and teaching myself new skills and refining them constantly. I have learned a patience and persistance such as I've ever known before.

I also found out that if I have a love for or even deep interest in something, then I can learn to do it.

So, really sorry if I rankled anyone with that post or if I came across as childish.

Cheers,

FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

Step one...Go to your nearest International Airport
Step two...Purchase a ticket to South Carolina
Step Three..Come to my house and we will start the process, I will teach you all the proper curse words to say when your threads dont come out right or when you blow a blank up in your face. I will teach you that the first couple of pens will NOT work right and I will also teach you to Blame the dog, the wife or Brooks803 for anything else that goes wrong during the process......

OR....

You can do what all these guys have told you..hit the library and you tube.

Heheheh, thanks and believe me I would turn up on your doorstep in a flash if my finances would support that!

As for all the curse words - surely they can't be much different to the ones I used when wooden ring after wooden ring after wooden ring failed at the final hurdle, after hours of work on each, done by hand with knives and sandpaper - I must have made hundreds, one after another after another before I got them to work right but I succeeded in the end, even after a lot of folks thought I was a lunatic for trying to make *sturdy* but delicate wooden rings out of radial grained pieces of wood, let alone heavily spalted pieces.

So, blowing a few (or even many) blanks to smithereens won't deter me in the least, and likely won't even elicit any cursing.



I indeed will be hitting the library here and watching more youtube vids (already must have watched about 50 pen turning vdeos), and I will seek out the kitless forum too (I only joined here yesterday and couldn't find that section - but I *did* look!)

I'm not put off by anything time consuming either, but I *do not* like buying things if there's a chance I can make them, even if the items are cheap to buy - that's just how I am and I see from one of your compatriots sig lines here 'I can make that' that I am far from alone in this.

I have taps and dies, may even go up to 12x1mm, but if not I'll get what I need (or borrow from my FIL who's a retired engineer of some skill and resources heheheh... )

My li'l Unimat SL I got from said FIL has a self centring 3 jaw chuck and currently a live centre on the tailstock - this should get me started for shorter pieces, but I plan on extending the tailstock further away from the headstock at some point, and maybe making or buying something other than the jawed chuck for the drive end that sits a little flatter to the headstock for increased room.

ATM I don't have woodturning tools, but have been getting some small feel for wood turning using small hand carving tools - I have on the way some steel bar and soon some TC cutters and will make my own basic gear in that respect from those, and again because I prefer to make things than buy, and not just because of our severe lack of finances from a ~1/2 decade of unemployment due to illness.


Another issue I have is never having handled a hand turned pen of any type nor having spoken with any penturners in person, I don't know what-all y'all are on about to be able to make much sense of how folk are doing what they're dong and what the things are that are being referred to - it feels like I could read a hundred posts about pens that have been turned and still come away not much the wiser.

So having said all that, if there *is* anyone on the forum from around these parts here in the north of England close enough who wouldn't mind spending a little one-on-one time, well that would be golden.

(Meanwhile back at the ranch) I should be getting on with this silver and morganite ring and the little silver birth spoon I'm working on, between reading and posting the forums!

So, thanks again one-and-all, and Be Well!

',;~}~

FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

Personally? .... id buy some plain old wood blanks, and some cheap pen kits so you can get a feel for pen turning..

Creating kitless pens is time consuming when compared to kits, and its how far do you want to go with it.. would you be working in wood and plastic or metal, if so which ones, do you plan on plating them or just buffing. the last thing you want to do is invest hours into one to make a schoolboy error. wandered drill bit, under or over turning, all of these things you quickly learn when making kits. I look at some of my first pens and they are horrendous but i keep them for humour value.

BUYING wooden blanks?!? - I live in England's Ribble Valley and am so surrounded by wood that it literally falls from the sky on me sometimes - I have more wood already than I can use for small projects in the rest of my lifetime, and I already make stabilised blanks and composite/hybrids, and some of the wood I have is crappy enough I wouldn't mind ruining it, however I have an old hardwood broom handle too that I already chucked and spun up a few bits of ',;~}~

As for the finish, well it would depend on what I wanted - I'm already more than familiar with the CA finish - anyone thinks it's tricky doing this on a rotating cylinder form? Try with small, complex shaped pieces with edges, curves and angles all over and then it gets tricky to say the least. Damnit it's hard enough doing it by hand on some of the rings I make.

Also fairly familiar with wax/oil/'drying' oil finishes etc.

So yeah, I'll have to take y'alls advice and have a snif around for a kit or two to start with and maybe I'll have to buy a mandrel too, unless I can get a close enough look at one to make one, or see if the FIL would do so for me - he's far more the engineer than I am or likely ever will be.

Thanks again, and be well.

FlowolF E2A - I've been working with epoxy and urethane casting resins too, and some of that stuff turns like butter even with the crappy/cheap 'stainless steel' hand carving chisels I got years ago.


E2A again! - Brad - just noted where you are - you're only about 30 miles from me - *waves!* - in fact you probably saw that hand waving.

 

[mredburn]

There are a couple specific tutorials that may start you on your way. One is by dalecomino(Chuck Hutchings) http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/adding_bands_to_your_caps.pdf, and the other by George Butcher.


I too like to jump in and then see how deep the water and how large the sharks.

Let me add you dont need a mandrel at your level really. I make my own bushings that just fit the inside of the brass tubes, If I use them. I dont make them to any particular OD. size using a digital caliper to turn the outside diameter to what ever I prefer for that pen.

 

[FlowolF]

There are a couple specific tutorials that may start you on your way. One is by dalecomino(Chuck Hutchings) http://content.penturners.org/library/techniques/adding_bands_to_your_caps.pdf, and the other by George Butcher.


I too like to jump in and then see how deep the water and how large the sharks.

Let me add you dont need a mandrel at your level really. I make my own bushings that just fit the inside of the brass tubes, If I use them. I dont make them to any particular OD. size using a digital caliper to turn the outside diameter to what ever I prefer for that pen.

Cheers for the links and the tips. Will have a click right away.

Take care!

FlowolF

 

[jttheclockman]

The forum you are looking for is "The Advanced Pen Making" fourum. Look at the little caption under the forum titled and it will tell you what is included in it. The very first one listed is Kitless. Good luck with your adventure but remember pen making is not rocket science. Kids make pens the very first try. It seems you have been around tools and the lathe so try turing some kit pens first then graduate. Have fun. This is one of those hobbies that being self taught is very easy to do. Just remember safety in the shop.

 

[joefyffe]

xxx

 

[joefyffe]

I agree with Harry one hunnert and one percent :biggrin: This would save you headaches when you go full kitless. It isn't just your skills, talent, and ability, there's a lot to be said for experience with threading different materials. and the sequence when to drill Vs. tapping, inside or outside first? Hollow tenons have been twisted off DAMHIKT

Welcome to IAP.

All good advice above. The library has all you need to know, and you won't save any money going kitless. A very logical skill progression is turning kits -> then closed end with kit components -> then full kitless.

Harry

 

[Curly]

Welcome Flow to the madness of pen turning. Since you are a self confessed nutter you will fit in here just fine. :bulgy-eyes: Don't worry about your sense of humour as even David (Kretzky), an exBrit living here in the loyal colony :wink: for only a few years didn't pick up on it. The only problem with talking tongue in cheek is that the straight talking guys don't understand the mumbling, so sometimes you bite it. Now for the learning bit. :biggrin:

What has been said is all valid and you will benefit from playing with a few kits. With your lathe and jewellery background you can make your own "kit parts" and turn out some fine pens as a big step up from the store bought kits. Take a look at Mike Redburn's work and the components he sells at his site. Silver Pen Parts You can do some parts along the same lines I think.

There is no special section for custom pens on this site. The information is found in the "Penturning", "Advanced Pen Making" and Fountain Pens" corners of the site. To me, one of the best resources of the site is the "Show Off Your Pens!" (SOYP) section. In there you will find many great kitless/custom pens the members have made. They serve as inspiration and you learn what works and what doesn't to your eye with respect to colours, materials, proportions, forms, well you get the idea. One of the most useful bits is that many post a disassembled picture of their creation showing all the parts along with some basic sizes and thread pitches used. Invaluable information to help understand what goes into making them.

It won't be long before you start posting examples of your own fancy-schmancy pens of your own. :good:

One last thing. You mentioned getting TC bits for your lathe. Don't. Carbide tools generally don't work well with small lathes, especially tiny ones like yours. They work best when taking heavier cuts than you can do on a small machine and are not as sharp as those of HSS which will produce a better finish. Have your "Engineer" teach you how to sharpen High Speed Steel tool bits for it.

Hopefully some of what I said helps you.

 

[mikespenturningz]

One of the hardest lessons to learn for me is that sharp tools make work much easier. A new skew isn't necessarily a sharp skew in fact it is likely not a sharp skew. Make sure your tools are sharp or you will take a rough blank and you will turn it into a rough cylinder. I really love the kit less pens that the guys here on the forum make but that is really not the place to start. I have turned the closed end pens as a starting point but I really enjoy making the blanks my own. There is so much that can be done to a blank that it will take years to perfect all of them. Hardware is not that expensive. Tooling up for kit less does look rather expensive.

 

[FlowolF]

The forum you are looking for is "The Advanced Pen Making" fourum. Look at the little caption under the forum titled and it will tell you what is included in it. The very first one listed is Kitless. Good luck with your adventure but remember pen making is not rocket science. Kids make pens the very first try. It seems you have been around tools and the lathe so try turing some kit pens first then graduate. Have fun. This is one of those hobbies that being self taught is very easy to do. Just remember safety in the shop.

Thanks - missed those sub-forums there ',;~}~

Some time ago I watched a 10 yr. old girl turn up a pen blank on you tube, giving a vocal tutorial/running commentary the whole way through. She even did a lot of the prep work after choosing the lump of wood she wanted to use - poppa only took over for the big and nasty machine saws etc.

Must say that vid whilst not particularly technical, sure as hell took a lot of the unknown and fear out of it for me. Smart kid and cute as a button to boot - bet poppa's proud as punch and then some.

Just been chatting with a friend and neighbour who indulges me in all my workshop exploits and he's seen the materials I produce and work with and loves the rings I make (made one each for him and his wife just before they got married as little wedding gifts), when he asked me how I was getting on with the little Unimat - told him what some of my plans were, and he's tasked me with making him a pen - I'm a guy who, whilst he loves the journey, responds best to a solid destination - I have one now and he'll be getting my first success that doesn't look like <expletivedeleted> uhhhhmmm... crap.

So, now I just need to decide/choose which way to start and what with, oh and wait for my steel bar and carbide tips to turn up (but I can rough out with my CS hand carving gouge some time before that if I like.

Lets see how long it takes me to arrive, and how little pain I can get away with along the way.

- In the words of The Lord Buddha (chuckle), as misappropriated, mangled and disseminated by many others -

"A) Don't Sweat the Small Stuff. B) Remember Always That it's all Small Stuff."

Thanks for the pointers and the li'l boost, too - much appreciated.

Be Well!


FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

I agree with Harry one hunnert and one percent :biggrin: This would save you headaches when you go full kitless. It isn't just your skills, talent, and ability, there's a lot to be said for experience with threading different materials. and the sequence when to drill Vs. tapping, inside or outside first? Hollow tenons have been twisted off DAMHIKT

Thanks! - No I agree and I'd be the first to uphold the experience point - I've developed this strange, almost trance like ability and aptitude for repetition this last 2 or 4 years since I made my first few wooden buttons then tried to get the wood ring thing right and all the rest, and it's the experience I love the most - I've spent countless hours on piece of work after piece of work only to retire them to the examples or scraps piles (damnit if I can't even throw away the smallest bit of nice looking material). I have a critical eye especially of what I do, so I don't let myself off lightly by any means - it's never right until it's right to me, no matter how many other folks keep telling me it's right, heheheh...

Been around a few workshops and materials in the past too, so I know little comes good first time without at least prior similar experience and the common sense to use it - just looking at the fine threads on some of the pens here sent shivers all over me thinking about cutting them - be sure I'd not take a tap and die to a worked piece at that stage myself, until I'd tapped and died heaps of scraps senseless beforehand and got some experience.

I'm actually guessing my first attempts will be from disassembled old Parker/Papermate twisters and the like.

Thanks again bud, and BTW I won't 'AYHYKT' - I think I already got a fair idea LOL!

',;~}~

FlowoF

 

[FlowolF]

Curly: Welcome Flow to the madness of pen turning. Since you are a self confessed nutter you will fit in here just fine. :bulgy-eyes: Don't worry

FW: Well I woulda been self confessed if everyone I know telling me hadn't beaten me to it.

Curly: about your sense of humour as even David (Kretzky), an exBrit living here in the loyal colony :wink: for only a few years didn't pick up on it. The only problem with talking tongue in cheek is that the straight talking guys don't understand the mumbling, so sometimes you bite it. Now for the learning bit. :biggrin:

FW: Ain't dat da troof - but having cut my teeth on the USEnet before even paying the web-forums any mind, and then having spent years on some of the forums, I'm kinda ready for it either way, and I usually try to leave *Big Thumping Clues* as to where I'm coming from and any humorous intent I may have, when new to a forum. That is without having to go as far as big smileys all the time, heheheh...

Curly: What has been said is all valid and you will benefit from playing with a few kits. With your lathe and jewellery background you can make your own "kit parts" and turn out some fine pens as a big step up from the store bought kits. Take a look at Mike Redburn's work and the components he sells at his site. Silver Pen Parts You can do some parts along the same lines I think.

FW: Seen a few of his posts already I think - will be digging and learning from the place much as I can so now doubt will come across him at some point, if not by immediate design then by the odds alone.

Curly: There is no special section for custom pens on this site. The information is found in the "Penturning", "Advanced Pen Making" and Fountain Pens" corners of the site. To me, one of the best resources of the site is the "Show Off Your Pens!" (SOYP) section. In there you will find many great kitless/custom pens the members have made. They serve as inspiration and you learn what works and what doesn't to your eye with respect to colours, materials, proportions, forms, well you get the idea. One of the most useful bits is that many post a disassembled picture of their creation showing all the parts along with some basic sizes and thread pitches used. Invaluable information to help understand what goes into making them.

FW: - Already seen quite a few and don't plan to stop looking any time soon ',;~}~

I do already have a very strong sense of my own aesthetic and that's as good a place as any to start IMO - I've been working with resins/stabilisation/composites for the last few years, mostly as my own starting materials, but wanted to pass a few pieces on to some wood turners I know, figured I'd best damned well learn to turn some myself first or I'll not have a clue what they're looking for! Pens seem a great place to start for me and my baby lathe.

Curly: It won't be long before you start posting examples of your own fancy-schmancy pens of your own. :good:

FW: You betcha! I'll be postingpictures off all the bloody awful messes first though you understand - I have no shame ',;~}~

Curly: One last thing. You mentioned getting TC bits for your lathe. Don't. Carbide tools generally don't work well with small lathes, especially tiny ones like yours. They work best when taking heavier cuts than you can do on a small machine and are not as sharp as those of HSS which will produce a better finish. Have your "Engineer" teach you how to sharpen High Speed Steel tool bits for it.

Hopefully some of what I said helps you.

FW - I hear ya loud and clear Sir but you'd better believe that by 44 y/o I learned how to sharpen my tools! In fact FIL asks me to do his knives these days as he's got better things to worry about, and he's seen all the cuts on my fingers LOL!

As for the diff. in finish and carbide vs. HSS - read a lot this past few months and have a rough handle on the differences and the why's thereof, plus used a bit of HSS here and there - hopefully I hit the mark near enough to start with - I can make or ask FIL for HSS replaceable bits and fit those to the bars instead if I hate the TC.

And yeah plenty of what you've said is helpful and I shall have it clearly in mind when I go and end up doing just the opposite LOL! j/k - thanks once again - much appreciated!

FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

One of the hardest lessons to learn for me is that sharp tools make work much easier. A new skew isn't necessarily a sharp skew in fact it is likely not a sharp skew. Make sure your tools are sharp or you will take a rough blank and you will turn it into a rough cylinder. I really love the kit less pens that the guys here on the forum make but that is really not the place to start. I have turned the closed end pens as a starting point but I really enjoy making the blanks my own. There is so much that can be done to a blank that it will take years to perfect all of them. Hardware is not that expensive. Tooling up for kit less does look rather expensive.

Thanks - appreciated. Any yup - I've never bought a 'sharp' tool yet, but put a fine edge on many. The exception has probably been the cheap CS Mora Clipper bushcraft type knife that could have cut a gnats bits in half along the plain of your choice, right outa the box. Back of my hand and arm never looked so clean shaven as when the postie arrived with that ',;~}~

Be Well!

FlowolF

 

[Erik831]

Shaun what type of rings do you make ? I also make rings

 

[FlowolF]

Shaun what type of rings do you make ? I also make rings

Stabilised, spalted wood or similar/resin/wood etc. composites, mostly with silver bands inside, although I'm working on other ideas (all the time).

Made loads of the things this last ~3 years, given a few as gifts, but not got myself set-up just yet - trying to get my web-site built (not my area of expertise - don't have a love for that sort of stuff) and launch S/E.


I'll try and dig out a pic or two if I can.

And what's your style bud?

Cheers!

FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

Few ring pics...

The above ring is of oak and spalted sycamore, and was made to someone else's order - I'm not a fan of the ply look, and cutting thin veneers out of stabilised spalted wood by hand is not my idea of fun - this was for a fried of mine in Cumbria, and he sent me a foto of a 'square ring' (?!?) and said 'do your thing with that' - he paid me for the privilege of making it for him, was very pleased with it and I enjoyed the challenge. To date this is the only item I've made and 'sold', but not because I've tried and failed - just want to be sure I am ready before I get into all that sort of thing - I hate all that 'business' stuff and would be happy making gifts for the rest of my life ',;~}~

The ring above I made for my MIL as a thumb ring for last xmas - it's made of holly that had been well weathered, and Britannia silver - she'd been admiring my own similar ring and hinted she'd love one like it. Mine fit her so I had the size sorted ',;~}~

Some various early attemps from 'pseudo-stabilised' woods before I started using the good stabilising sauce from Curtis' place ',;~}~

That last one up there - spalted sycamore again but laminated with aged/oxidised holly again - first time I made a veneer laminate, first time I silver soldered a strip into a tube, and first time I ever tried to fit a wood ring with a silver insert. Can you believe it involved hammering the silver into shape on the wood ring? Too small to be worn but it was just an experiment in materials and execution, for the experience alone.

I've done others since but not u/l photos to the web yet.

And apologies for the poor quality of some of the pics - taken using a little 5+ year old Cannon compact in NW England's reliable glorious daylight.

So, I showed you mine show me yours now bud ',;~}~

Cheers!


FlowolF - hope I did the pics right for the posting?!?

 

[Erik831]

The above ring is of oak and spalted sycamore, and was made to someone else's order - I'm not a fan of the ply look, and cutting thin veneers out of stabilised spalted wood by hand is not my idea of fun - this was for a fried of mine in Cumbria, and he sent me a foto of a 'square ring' (?!?) and said 'do your thing with that' - he paid me for the privilege of making it for him, was very pleased with it and I enjoyed the challenge. To date this is the only item I've made and 'sold', but not because I've tried and failed - just want to be sure I am ready before I get into all that sort of thing - I hate all that 'business' stuff and would be happy making gifts for the rest of my life ',;~}~

The ring above I made for my MIL as a thumb ring for last xmas - it's made of holly that had been well weathered, and Britannia silver - she'd been admiring my own similar ring and hinted she'd love one like it. Mine fit her so I had the size sorted ',;~}~

Some various early attemps from 'pseudo-stabilised' woods before I started using the good stabilising sauce from Curtis' place ',;~}~

That last one up there - spalted sycamore again but laminated with aged/oxidised holly again - first time I made a veneer laminate, first time I silver soldered a strip into a tube, and first time I ever tried to fit a wood ring with a silver insert. Can you believe it involved hammering the silver into shape on the wood ring? Too small to be worn but it was just an experiment in materials and execution, for the experience alone.

I've done others since but not u/l photos to the web yet.

And apologies for the poor quality of some of the pics - taken using a little 5+ year old Cannon compact in NW England's reliable glorious daylight.

So, I showed you mine show me yours now bud ',;~}~

Cheers!

FlowolF - hope I did the pics right for the posting?!?

Those rings are beautiful, I was just considering (last night ) try to make rings with metal band and checked the "bangleguy" website ,he sells metal bands that you just put the wood around the band, check it out looks pretty neat, at any rate I been trying to learn the bentwood method for ring making I have a lot to learn ... so many fail attempts , it requires a lot of patience which sometimes I don't have .. Here is a picture of one that I made last week I believe is Indian rosewood with mother pearl inlay

 

[Erik831]

A few more rings

 

[Displaced Canadian]

Hats off to doth of you.

 

[FlowolF]

Those rings are beautiful, I was just considering (last night ) try to make rings with metal band and checked the "bangleguy" website ,he sells metal bands that you just put the wood around the band, check it out looks pretty neat, at any rate I been trying to learn the bentwood method for ring making I have a lot to learn ... so many fail attempts , it requires a lot of patience which sometimes I don't have .. Here is a picture of one that I made last week I believe is Indian rosewood with mother pearl inlay

Thanks for that bud ',;~}~

Nice job yourself there - love the inlay work.

Read a lot about the bentwood style myself when I was searching for tips, but the reason I started making mine was because I fell in love with spalted or otherwise 'time and decay improved' wood I was finding around here - I wanted it to show all that paterning and the bentwoon style wouldn't allow for that, even if I could cut the spalted wood into strips - I had to find other ways of giving my rigns strength. So I played with the cross sections and various stabilising teks. but couldn't get many to come out so I was happy that they wouldn't break unexpectedly - my toughest plain wood band yet which had survived me and my large handed clumsiness for months, cracked into 3 seperate pieces after an overly bucth and enthusiastic handshake by an ex body-building cousin of mine, drunk at a family wedding - so I started with the silver linings - the spported the wood and framed it, but took nothing away - the rings still are all about showing off individual pieces of wood that are gem worthy in their own right IMO ',;~}~

The pre-made band sounds perfect for bentwood or resin inlays! - Myself I have a real love of silver and always have, so I got into silver soldering and making my own parts/findings for other pieces, and general silver jewellery - took a couple classes in the end too which has been fun ',;~}~

Cheers bud and keep up the cracking work.

',;~}~

FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

So been on a couple of tours of some online UKish pen kit suppliers and seen a few low cost ones that don't have too much by the way of exposed metalwork on the finished item - I can work with that ',;~}~

PenCrafts.co.uk and penkits.co.uk- anyone over here got exp. of either shop?

Also noted that Axminster carry a few bits, which took me by surprise for some reason.

Will take a look through the forums WRT anyone selling kits too when I get chance.

Any pointers WRT reliable UK sources gladly rec. - 'Together, we can make this **it happen', to (possibly mis-)quote some line from some film somewhere ',;~}~

Cheers again,

FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

A few more rings

Noooyyyce! Really am diggin' that crushed mineral inlaying - do you use the lathe to cut the recesses?

Not used a lathe at all for any of mine (esp. since I only just got the lathe LOL!), least yet - I start with a rough cylinder, then drill/cut out a hole in the centre near-ish the size I want, then the rest is carved out by knife, then shaped, profiled and finished with abrasives - doesn't feel like a worthy piece if I haven't bled on it or sanded off some fingerprints from myself, but I'm sure I could get over that if I tried, heheheh...

Later ',;~}~

FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

Hats off to doth of you.

Oh you're too sweet DC, but er gonna get a cold head mate (chuckle).

Cheers bud ',;~}~

FlowolF

 

[FlowolF]

Also took a stab at making a wand (b'day gift for li'l bro') and a couple of 'twisted love spoons' - one for the missus and one for li'l sis' wedding present.

Sis's spoon:

(Made from a piece of oak branch with sapwood, stabilised and CA finsh).

Bro's wand:

Made from a live cut of hollywood (permissions of the dryad asked and rec.), seasoned for 18 months. Finished very specifically with copper, silver, and bro's birthstones and other stones related to his sign - each of the major stones is set into a knot in the wood. I gave it him with paperwork explaining the magical choice of materials and decisions made for the making of it. Took a lot of reading and over 2 years of planning to even approach doing this 'by the book' (or any of the many books LOL!). Also I put a runic translation from old norse 'inscription' on the main copper piece holding the Ametrine as well: 'Never In Anger'. Finish is loads of pure tung oil over several weeks. Right up his alley so to speak, but needless to say li'l bro' wasn't expecting any of this at all and had to spend some time retrieving his socks, them having just been blown off - I was *beyond* made up by his reaction, so much I wanted to go and start making him another one LOL! - I once read a koan that ended with the line "Let the giver, be thankful" - I got the point then and do now every time I make and give a gift - makes me very happy. ',;~}~


Ain't making things great LOL!

FlowolF

 

[RMayoIII]

Wow on the rings, both of you. Those are amazing and I've dying to give them a try. Are they drilled and glued to a tube? How do you get the metal band inside if not?

 

[FlowolF]

Wow on the rings, both of you. Those are amazing and I've dying to give them a try. Are they drilled and glued to a tube? How do you get the metal band inside if not?

Heheh, well when I wanted to know how some of the other folks making wood and metal rings did theirs, I could find nothing at all, save the odd paragraph like: "Many of our customers and other people ask us how on earth do we get the wood in the metal ring/metal in the wood ring?... " but with no reply ever being given- none of them will part with the information, and TBH when it comes to tungsten and titanium rings with single, solid wooden inlays I still haven't a clue!

So, I can't refer you to a google search, or a string of videos/written 'how-to's' or even a single instructable!

However I can explain how I do it:



Well, ever since I was a toddler I've had a fascination with...

<editedforbrevity>

... without the financial resources (never had money!) spent lots of time from teens onwards working with makeshift, or old and worn out tools of various kinds without any real instruction or guidance, just gathering an 'empirical' knowledge from trial and error - if I didn't have it I w9ould make it, if I couldn't do it I'd try until I could...

<moresurgery>

... So when I came to solving the problem of how to make these gorgeous but delicate wooden rings tough enough to withstand the abuse of being worn I settled on lining them with silver.

Since the silver was only there for a bit of physical support and aesthetic framing I knew it didn't need much.

So, what *I* do (this is protected, proprietary information please disseminate no further - this is dark, dark esoteric insider knowledge here and my livelihood, nay the very continued existence of my soul and being depend upon it remaining a secret!) -

Cut a strip of thin silver (~=0.5mm), long enough and wide enough for the ring dimensions plus another 1.5 or so mm in width; roll the ends together and silver solder with grade medium-hard.

Reshape it full round and clean up/level the join if needed.

Make a hole in the wooden piece slightly smaller than it needs to be to take the silver tube.

Hand carve (with a Mora Clipper in my case) a little more out, then finish with abrasive to just above the right size in the centre, leaving a 'comfort fit' curve either side of centre to the edges.

When you're done the silver tube should fit through with a bit of slack.

Re-anneal the silver tube *fully* - too hot or too cool it will not be *near* soft enough!

Clean up and roughen the outer surface with abrasive, slide it into the wooden piece and centre it exactly.

Apply a couple drops of wicking CA and see it runs right round between silver and wood and allow to set.

Scrape off any of the CA that has dried on the silver making sure the space between silver and wood is clear.

Now comes the tricky part - hit the silver with a hammer, *hard* and repeatedly, to flare the edges out to meet the wood, making sure it mates with the curves of the comfort fit, then lays fully flat against the sides of the wood, then hit the edges some more until they 'bite' into the wood a little and get partially buried in there. Run more thin/wicking CA around the edges to flly bond the silver and wood there.

That's it - ready to be shaped, sanded and finished up.

Don't however expect to not have almost every singe ring bust on you - the silver is fairly soft to start with but quickly work hardens and the amount of force needed to get it to fit, is usually more than the wood can take (even fully hardened and stabilised) - hitting it more gently just means it work hardens too much before the fit is achieved - it needs to be done in as few blows as possible for it to work. Too hard a blow though and it breaks immediately though. This takes accuracy, practice and more practised accuracy (rinse and repeat).

So yeah, that's how I 'wrap' my rings insides with silver - it's very effective support with that cross section and appearance-wsie you judged for yourself, but ya have to be wiling to potentially sacrifice many hours of careful work right up to the last minute, with every piece done.

GL and if ya make one please post a photo for me ',;~}~


Cheers!

FlowolF

 

[RMayoIII]

Hmmm.... Thanks for the bit of proprietary inside info! Sounds tricky to say the least. If/when I locate a "roundtoit" I'll certainly post lost of pics!

 

[FlowolF]

Hmmm.... Thanks for the bit of proprietary inside info! Sounds tricky to say the least. If/when I locate a "roundtoit" I'll certainly post lost of pics!

Heheh, well it's one of those things - it isn't tricky once you've got it right, and remember how you got it right - I had a lot of time and the kind of energy that only tends to come from a nervous/some sort of breakdown - I took all this up as a focus to try and regain/hold on to some kind of sanity.

The result was almost 12 months of me sleeping 4 or so hours the rest of the time reading/researching, makingthingsmakingthingsmakingthings, collected endless wild spalted wood and learning new skills and practising them to death.

Since then I've slowed down a bit but I'm every bit as obsessive and love every minute of it too ',;~}~

Anyways it's [tthe rings] likely not near as hard to do as it may appear, and ya have to remember, silver is actually quite cheap especially such small pieces as are needed here, and easy enough to re-purpose should it get mangled.

Anyway I hope you do give it a go sometime ',;~}~

As ever, Be Well!

FlowolF - P.s. - early in our relationship I made my wife a round 'tuit' out of blackthorn IIRC - little domed disc keyring enscribed 'tuit-tuit-' all the way around on both sides - that was an American e-pals fault about 18 years ago - he told me about the things and explained them to me, heheheh...