tbc or mandrel?

[hazmat74]

When I was planning on starting on my Taig, I was going to use a collet setup like yours. ordered a 1/4" collet and locking nut for it, but I would have to use a live center. I was hoping on being able to shorten up as needed by passing through the headstock spindle, but that turned out to not be an option. The mandrel won't pass all the way through the collet to even get to that point.

Either way, didn't mean to bring up a battle of the methods, was asking in earnest and probably should have reconsidered. As with pipemakers, ask 100 pen makers how to do something, get 120 answers in return.

I'll start with the mandrel setup I purchased and adjust as necessary. It may work out perfectly for me or turn into a headache. In any event, I have so much to learn, that is where I'll be directing my focus. Doesn't matter which way I'm turning anything if I'm not capable of doing it properly and consistently.

Ok... A couple of quick pictures of my setup. This may not be the cheapest setup - but I'm really happy with it because of the options it gives me, its rock solid, and easily adjustable.

In the first picture, you can see the mandrel in a collet (not in the holder at the moment, a couple of 7mm bushings (probably pretty worn because they just space things for me - I use calipers for dimensions), and a mandrel saver which makes shorting the thing as easy as moving the tail stock.

In the other picture you can see the collet chuck, which at the moment is holding a "punch" from the HF set that I use for doing some closed end seam rippers on.

I will swap back to the other collet when it comes to pen time.

 

[alphageek]

When I was planning on starting on my Taig, I was going to use a collet setup like yours. ordered a 1/4" collet and locking nut for it, but I would have to use a live center. I was hoping on being able to shorten up as needed by passing through the headstock spindle, but that turned out to not be an option. The mandrel won't pass all the way through the collet to even get to that point.

Either way, didn't mean to bring up a battle of the methods, was asking in earnest and probably should have reconsidered. As with pipemakers, ask 100 pen makers how to do something, get 120 answers in return.

I'll start with the mandrel setup I purchased and adjust as necessary. It may work out perfectly for me or turn into a headache. In any event, I have so much to learn, that is where I'll be directing my focus. Doesn't matter which way I'm turning anything if I'm not capable of doing it properly and consistently.

Would a mt2 in the tailstock of your taig allow the mandrel to pass through? I have really gotten to like the mandrel saver as it works really well for adjusting length to only whats needed. I also think it would deal with peoples "bent mandrel" issues as the pressure from the tail stock isn't on the end of the mandrel, its on the bushings.

Again - no battle for me, just hoping to share what works best for me. (And never worry about asking questions. Its not your fault that a topic that seems to be a sticking point for some is brought up. )

 

[hazmat74]

Would a mt2 in the tailstock of your taig allow the mandrel to pass through? I have really gotten to like the mandrel saver as it works really well for adjusting length to only whats needed. I also think it would deal with peoples "bent mandrel" issues as the pressure from the tail stock isn't on the end of the mandrel, its on the bushings.

Again - no battle for me, just hoping to share what works best for me. (And never worry about asking questions. Its not your fault that a topic that seems to be a sticking point for some is brought up. )

Taigs don't accept MTs of any size so far as I've been able to tell. I emailed the company to ask about a MT1(Taigs are little lathes) and didn't even get a "can't hurt to try" suggestion. It would pass it if I could use one. It's fine, though. I picked up a midi wood lathe last week that I will be turning pens on. The Taig I may use for drilling as I know it's dead on. I've drilled a bunch of pipe stems on it and have never had one miss so far as I can remember. It's pretty quick and easy to set up for drilling on, particularly when I can drill straight through. Pipe stems you have to drill with a tapered bit on one end about 2/3 of the way, then flip it and drill through with wee tiny bit on the draw end.

 

[walshjp17]

Sharon,

Check out Lazerlinez. They carry 7MM TBC bushings as well.

You may be mistaken here.

My bad. I knew I bought some but thought it was Lazerlinez. It was actually ChefWare http://www.chefwarekits.com/pen-tur...between-centers-bushing-steel-made-in-the-usa but it looks like they are out of stock now.


Apologies for the confusion.

 

[Dan Masshardt]

My bad. I knew I bought some but thought it was Lazerlinez. It was actually ChefWare http://www.chefwarekits.com/pen-turning-kits-supplies/pen-turning-between-centers-bushing-steel-made-in-the-usa but it looks like they are out of stock now.

Apologies for the confusion.

One more place to check out for bushings though!

 

[dogcatcher]

When I was planning on starting on my Taig, I was going to use a collet setup like yours. ordered a 1/4" collet and locking nut for it, but I would have to use a live center. I was hoping on being able to shorten up as needed by passing through the headstock spindle, but that turned out to not be an option. The mandrel won't pass all the way through the collet to even get to that point.

With a Taig you can make your own TBC bushings. I made my first using aluminum rod, chucked it up in the 4 jaw and turned the end down one end to 1/4 so it would fit in the Taig collet chuck. Then turned that end to size. For the Tailstock end I made the bushing to fit the live center by first drilling the end with a 60 degree center drill. Then cut the bushing to size.

I drive the headstock end with the 1/4" stub in the collet chuck, either the Taig, the Sherline or the wood lathe.

As the aluminum bushings wore out, I made replacements out of 1018 steel, not the best steel for the job, but cheap enough that I used it.

 

[edstreet]

Allow me to kick the white elephant in the room.

I took the liberty of doing some measurements.

Here we are going to compare the slop factor (the amount of 'run-out' or 'out of tolerance' or 'out of round') between factory mandrel bushings and TBC bushings. Sadly I do not have other style bushings and I would love if someone does have other styles to post the tube ID and bushing diam. Just to compare.

I took a Gent Jr tube set, and the sets I posted earlier: factory mandrel bushings and TBC bushings. Here are the results ...

The term 'shaft' is the hole cut in the bushings to fit over the mandrel.

the term 'ID' is the 'inside the tube lip' on the bushings, it holds and stabilizes the tube to not slip and cause run-out.

Factors that would be consistent between the two forms is not considered, i.e. lathe 'run-out'.

Other factors that may influence but was not looked at is the precision of the mandrel head affecting the run-out of the mandrel shaft.

:Mandrel:

mandrel shaft: 0.2455
bushings shaft: 0.2515
diff: 0.006" or 0.16mm

:Factory bushings:

lower tube ID: 0.3835
bushings ID: 0.3785
diff: 0.005" or 0.13mm

Upper tube ID: 0.4675
bushings ID: 0.4595
diff: 0.008" or 0.21mm

Min slop (shaft + bushing) = 0.011" = 0.28mm
Max slop (shaft + bushing) = 0.014" = 0.36mm

Now for TBC

:TBC:

Upper tube ID: 0.4675"
Bushings ID: 0.463"
diff: 0.0045" or 0.12mm

lower tube ID: 0.3835"
Bushings ID: 0.379"
diff: 0.0045" or 0.12mm

slop = 0.0045" = 0.12mm

Lets compare

Slop difference in TBC to mandrel
Min slop = 0.011" - 0.0045" = 0.0065" = 0.16mm
Max slop = 0.014" - 0.0045" = 0.0095" = 0.25mm

So the difference is 0.0065" to 0.0095", that's HUGE. While the 0.00 may seem small when you look at the drill bit chart you see this is 2 steps smaller than a #80 drill bit.

Consider this next time you put a pen together and feel a 'high' spot on one section of one end.

 

[alphageek]

I took the liberty of doing some measurements.
.
.
.

Consider this next time you put a pen together and feel a 'high' spot on one section of one end.

And this is exactly what Ed (4copies) said about 20 posts ago. There is arguments for each side. However, if you are comparing mass produced to precision - precision will always win.

I prefer mandrel, but if there is kits you do ALOT I too would recommend a set of precision made bushings (IMO the best precision bushings are setup for either mandrel or TBC - but thats just so the options there for either way).

I have tweaked my setup (as I showed earlier) to have the mandrel as precise as I can... One advantage to that is that I can try out a kit with factory bushings before upgrading (not all kits make the grade and become common for me).

 

[edstreet]

Several things of note. First where is the no-bushing crowd at on this one? They seem to be absent or probably silent as no one has weighed in on this topic yet.

Second ....

I took the liberty of doing some measurements.
.
.
.

Consider this next time you put a pen together and feel a 'high' spot on one section of one end.

And this is exactly what Ed (4copies) said about 20 posts ago. There is arguments for each side. However, if you are comparing mass produced to precision - precision will always win.

I prefer mandrel, but if there is kits you do ALOT I too would recommend a set of precision made bushings (IMO the best precision bushings are setup for either mandrel or TBC - but thats just so the options there for either way).

I have tweaked my setup (as I showed earlier) to have the mandrel as precise as I can... One advantage to that is that I can try out a kit with factory bushings before upgrading (not all kits make the grade and become common for me).

I am not sure where to start on this one. We have epic logic failure. We have failure to understand what my post was about and likely did not see what I was asking. Allow me to clarify things.

Sadly I do not have other style bushings and I would love if someone does have other styles to post the tube ID and bushing diam. Just to compare.

 

[Ogg]

Wow this has been a good read so far. I've been away for awhile dealing with health issues and so am trying to catch up on things and saw this thread.

Some years back I noticed that the mandrels where 0.2475" like Ed has stated. I was also aware of the bushings having an ID of about 0.251"....which left a lot of slop to deal with.

I had also used the MT #2 pen collet available at most shops, but felt that it too was not as true as it should be.

What I ended up doing was tossing the MT #2 collet, the stock mandrel and stopped using a pointed live center...Basically tossed everything but the bushings

Currently I am using a Beall collet chuck that screws onto the lathe's spindle. The Beall's worked with me to make sure it was precise with only about 0.0005" run-out. For the mandrel I use hardened precision drill rod 0.250" in diameter and I use a Craft Supplies Precision Machine Pen Center (a live center that mandrel fits into) which I have reamed out to 0.250" and polished the center's throat. Fit's tight without play and slides in smoothly.

When I do two part pens I only turn one half at a time to keep the length down so that I greatly reduce deflection.

So far this mandrel setup has done me well (use a dial indicator to check things), but I am also aware that it's not a standard mandrel setup.

With all that said though I am interested in learning more about going the TBC route to see what my differences would be in precision. Does anyone have a link to a thread that goes over pen turning using TBC?

 

[edstreet]

Wow this has been a good read so far. I've been away for awhile dealing with health issues and so am trying to catch up on things and saw this thread.

Some years back I noticed that the mandrels where 0.2475" like Ed has stated. I was also aware of the bushings having an ID of about 0.251"....which left a lot of slop to deal with.

I had also used the MT #2 pen collet available at most shops, but felt that it too was not as true as it should be.

What I ended up doing was tossing the MT #2 collet, the stock mandrel and stopped using a pointed live center...Basically tossed everything but the bushings

Currently I am using a Beall collet chuck that screws onto the lathe's spindle. The Beall's worked with me to make sure it was precise with only about 0.0005" run-out. For the mandrel I use hardened precision drill rod 0.250" in diameter and I use a Craft Supplies Precision Machine Pen Center (a live center that mandrel fits into) which I have reamed out to 0.250" and polished the center's throat. Fit's tight without play and slides in smoothly.

When I do two part pens I only turn one half at a time to keep the length down so that I greatly reduce deflection.

So far this mandrel setup has done me well (use a dial indicator to check things), but I am also aware that it's not a standard mandrel setup.

With all that said though I am interested in learning more about going the TBC route to see what my differences would be in precision. Does anyone have a link to a thread that goes over pen turning using TBC?

There are actually several ways to go about that. I think the most popular way is with a dead center and a live center, both 60 degree's, like this.

However, if you really wanted to reduce things even more and get good precision then you would need something like this.

and this

 

[hazmat74]

How do pin jaws add precision for anything but drilling? You arent turning using those jaws, unless i have overlooked something and you are turning one end, flipping, then turning the other. Which to me seems more of a pita than anything else.

 

[edstreet]

How do pin jaws add precision for anything but drilling? You arent turning using those jaws, unless i have overlooked something and you are turning one end, flipping, then turning the other. Which to me seems more of a pita than anything else.

Sure?

That top cap is just sitting there, not glued in yet.

 

[hazmat74]

I was thinking in terms of turning a whole pen barrel, not parts and pieces. I've yet to turn one, so I'm asking questions, not challenging your methods. Simple curiosity.

 

[edstreet]

Sure not a problem at all with that.

There is a group who does not use bushings, on the lathe, and get very good results. I was attempting to show some parts of that aspect but since none of them have chimed in here I was trying to fill in.

Essentially it is chuck the blank and turn it with calipers to the shape/size needed then part the tube as needed. With this setup you would remove any slop that mandrel shafts and bushings provide and only have slop from the head/tail, the tool rest and the chisels themselves.

 

[hazmat74]

Yeah, the more I thought about it, the more I could see how this could be done sans mandrel, TBC, etc. I still have to get proper lathe chisels, so I have a ways to go before I begin experimenting with methods, but it's good to see them discussed so I have several avenues to explore when I (finally) get started.

 

[Carl Fisher]

My way is neither right or wrong, but I will say that I don't recall the last time I used a mandrel on anything other than 7mm and even then I don't do that often.

The method I use almost exclusively is to start with the stock bushings directly between live and dead 60 degree centers. I do this so I can rough the blank down until it's just proud of the bushings. Then I remove the bushings and chuck the blank up directly between centers with the centers pressing into the brass tube directly. I'll match my caliper to the kit component I am using and then do the finish sizing and detailing until my calipers tell me I'm where I want to be.

The benefit I have found in this method is that it allows me to quickly get close to my finished shape and size and then removing the bushings takes out any possible concentric issues from badly manufactured bushings and lets me hit my target diameter without worrying about the bushings being an exact size match to the components.

Since I switched to this method sometime last year, I have never seen a concentric issue again and the only screw ups are the ones I cause by not paying attention and over shooting my target size. :redface:

 

[Russknan]

edstreet: "For the mandrel I use hardened precision drill rod 0.250" in diameter". I'm intrigued. Where do you get one of those? Russ

 

[hazmat74]

Haha... none of you guys are making this easier on me! So many different ways to skin a cat, all of which are perfectly capable of getting the job done.

 

[edstreet]

Haha... none of you guys are making this easier on me! So many different ways to skin a cat, all of which are perfectly capable of getting the job done.

The answer lies in the answer you give from "what do you currently have now" and "what do you want to do down the road".

There are indeed numerous ways to do the same thing and some may be more accurate than others but there are also other methods that are just as equally as accurate. The answer to that is where is the cut off point for accuracy that you desire and what are you willing to accept to get that level of accuracy.

The other factor I would like you hit you with is what method/practice seems more natural to you. I watched a video on youtube recently where the turner was cutting on the opposite end of the bowl from where most of us are use to. This method was perfectly normal for him but it worked for him.

 

[hazmat74]

"What do you currently have now" is exactly where I'm starting. In truth, I could probably turn a pen today if I chose to. I could use my metal lathe as I have a mandrel and collet for that. Don't like the amount of extra mandrel I'd be dealing with, but them's the breaks. Also, I don't want to turn with the metal cutting tools. I've ordered the mandrel saver kit, so that's where I'll start for now on my wood lathe. Where I want to go... I want to make pens(and other things) as well as I can. What that will be, I shall discover as I go along learning.

Right now, no method seems more natural to me. Yet another thing I'll have to discover as I go along. Looking forward to the adventure and am itching to turn a pen.

 

[Rounder]

I have only been turning for a short time. I have no garage or shop so I have to drag everything out of the shed, set it up, turn, tear it back down and put it back in the shed. Here is what I suggest:

1. HAVE FUN FIRST!
2. Use what you have until you don't like the results you get (standards seem to increase as knowledge of the hobby increases)
3. Don't use rent or beer money on tools
4. HAVE FUN LAST!

These are all just my opinions. Lots of variety in the knowledge base on this sight and it is all helpful. I am leaps and bounds ahead of where I began but have eons to go to get where I want to be. Listen to all opinions and do the best you can with what you have.

Oh, and one last thing, did I mention to HAVE FUN???!!!

 

[healeydays]

Funny thing is I have less than 20 pens under my belt so far and I started with a mandrel as most do, but soon learned that I liked turning between the centers better.

I would like to find a set of the 7mm TBC bushings as every place mentioned here didn't either carry them or were out of stock. If someone has a set they don't use anymore and would like to sell or trade, I'm game...


Mike B

 

[edstreet]

Funny thing is I have less than 20 pens under my belt so far and I started with a mandrel as most do, but soon learned that I liked turning between the centers better.

I would like to find a set of the 7mm TBC bushings as every place mentioned here didn't either carry them or were out of stock. If someone has a set they don't use anymore and would like to sell or trade, I'm game...

Mike B

See link below for tbc 7mm bushings. Last I looked few days ago was on stock.

 

[healeydays]

Funny thing is I have less than 20 pens under my belt so far and I started with a mandrel as most do, but soon learned that I liked turning between the centers better.

I would like to find a set of the 7mm TBC bushings as every place mentioned here didn't either carry them or were out of stock. If someone has a set they don't use anymore and would like to sell or trade, I'm game...

Mike B

See link below for tbc 7mm bushings. Last I looked few days ago was on stock.

Ed, you forgot the link...

Mike

 

[hazmat74]

I have only been turning for a short time. I have no garage or shop so I have to drag everything out of the shed, set it up, turn, tear it back down and put it back in the shed. Here is what I suggest:

1. HAVE FUN FIRST!
2. Use what you have until you don't like the results you get (standards seem to increase as knowledge of the hobby increases)
3. Don't use rent or beer money on tools
4. HAVE FUN LAST!

These are all just my opinions. Lots of variety in the knowledge base on this sight and it is all helpful. I am leaps and bounds ahead of where I began but have eons to go to get where I want to be. Listen to all opinions and do the best you can with what you have.

Oh, and one last thing, did I mention to HAVE FUN???!!!

Good advice, thanks. Rest assured, beer money won't be spent on tools. Rent money, I make no promises!

I fully intend to enjoy myself. I've wanted a wood lathe for quite a while. Besides pens, I'm pretty excited about the many other things that can be turned on a lathe. The only thing I'm not excited about is the waiting game while getting rigged up.

 

[Dan Hintz]

I use both methods. I start with the mandrel to turn both pieces. My blanks are typically square/non-square (rarely pre-rounded), so I rough out to within 10-20 mils of desired size. Once there, I switch over the TBC for final measurements and finishing, one piece at a time.

One thing may of you might find surprising, however... I do not use bushings for my TBC. That's right, the 60 degree centers go right into the ends of my tubes. That guarantees me a centered tube regardless. I run into minor issues with shaping near the ends of the blank as the gouge gets close to the 60 degree centers, but that's mostly because I use a 1-1/2" roughing gouge to do all of my work (I'm neglecting the parting tool for the moment).

So, mandrel or TBC, I'm adding a new dimension to the fight... bushing or no bushing

 

[TBCbushings]

I have a pair of 7mm on hand...

 

[edstreet]

Ed, you forgot the link...

Mike

Sorry! I thought the link was here somewhere and I was on my iphone at the time.

7mm Triple Play [7MM_Triple_Play] - $21.00 : Penturners Products! Try this link. If out of stock then send him email and ask for a set when he has time, he just made me 2 sets of emperor Jr bushings.

Also keep in mind to that he has several 'washers' that fits on the slimline bushings for things like euro's and other similar type models.

 

[DurocShark]

Here's my suggestion:

There are essentially three basic methods:
1. Mandrel (whether using the MT adapters, or a collet or whatever)
2. Non-Mandrel with bushings.
3. Non-Mandrel and Non-Bushings

My recommendation is to play with each one. Get competent with each one. Because each will have pros and cons and as you grow, you will find that some things can only be done using one of those methods (or a combination of methods.)

I find that I use a mandrel a LOT more than the other two. But if I don't have bushings to fit my needs, I'll go TBC with homemade delrin or even scrap wood "bushings". Basically just holders. Mic'ing as I go.

If I'm doing something completely custom, then I might go bushingless altogether. Especially if I'm doing a carving or finial.

It's good to learn new techniques, even if you have no intention of using them once you've learned them.

 

[mikespenturningz]

You know there are so many answers to this question and it comes up here a lot. Don you just gave a great answer! Play around and try them all.

I don't recommend without bushings until you get a bit of experience though. I use it but only from time to time. It is very easy to put too much pressure on the blank as a novice. Try turning without bushings on a spare tube and if it works make the other half of the pen the same way.

There are many ways to make a pen and none of them are actually wrong!

 

[mightymavkev]

I agree. Like most everything else, it comes down to personal preference for you and also what you are looking to get out of pen turning.

For me, the first priority is whatever makes things more enjoyable. This is a hobby for me and it's less about "precision" and more about the fun and relaxation I have spending a few hours in the shop making something unique that I know I did myself. If that thing ends up going to a friend, family member, or even sold to a customer at some point - it doesn't matter.

That's not to say that I don't strive to make the best project I can possibly make - and that goes for precision as well - but I'm just a bit more realistic about what is acceptable for my purposes vs. what might be acceptable to others who have different goals.

For what it's worth, I started using a mandrel and that was for no other reason than it's what the person who got me started used and i copied him.

Then I graduated to a mandrel saver rather than using the little knurled wheel to tighten the blanks.

I then eventually just went to the TBC method. I still use the standard "kit" bushings however and I've never seen the need to buy special "TBC" bushings.

I remove the bushings for finishing.

I think the thing that drove this for me more than anything was less about precision and more about the fact that I use my lathe as my primary tool for just about all steps of my pen making. So I like the fact that I can remove the blank and replace it quickly (or go from one blank to another when making multiples) without having to disassemble and reassemble a mandrel with all the pieces.

For me, a couple turns of the tail stock wheel and the blank is off the lathe and the next blank can be put on just as quickly.


I hope all of the advise ends up proving helpful to you. The folks out here are awesome and I've learned so much from all of them. I honestly find reading this forum "almost" as addicting as the actual turning sometimes.

good luck and welcome to the hobby.

Kevin

 

[steve worcester]

I don't get this. (bear with me here) If the idea is to get better precision , why not a better mandrel. This is a presumption you are turning a two piece pen. If the issue is runout, then it is in the hardware. It could be lathe, mandrel or bushings. If any of those are out of your spec, get one that is different.

I have a good lathe (I am a Robust dealer) and switched from a generic mandrel to a Whiteside (from Woodcraft) and then consider the bushings as a consumable. Hit it with the gouge or skew and then throw them out for a new set.

If you are turning a single barrel, it is alignment. At that point it is either head to tailstock alignment, or bushings off center. I don't see the issue. Measure runout and if it is constantly off, find a new vendor. BUT there is an amour of acceptable runout. That part is personal. If you can hit the diameter dead on to the bushing with the tool (which is difficult to measure with a caliper) and the pen is high or low, measure the bushings and the pen parts and figure out which is off and replace or compensate for it.

Granted, it has been 1)+ years since I turned pens for shows (until lately) but I don't think the technology has changed that much. If it has, school me. Just be kind.

 

[Bobostro61]

There's special bushings for TBC? I didn't know that. I've done a few pens TBC using the bushings I bought for the pens from PSI. Seems they work just fine. I'd like to do more TBC but I run in to problems with small tubes. Not enough room between the head and tail stocks to get my 6" tool rest between them. That's the smallest tool rest I have. You do you pros do for small tubes? For example, a Woodcraft Retro? Those tubes are SMALL.

 

[Lenny]

I like tbc ... and wouldn't discourage you from trying it, however, I still use a mandrel often and wouldn't want to be without that either.
Whatever you decide to start with, know that you will NEED more to feed the addiction!

 

[Lenny]

There's special bushings for TBC? I didn't know that. I've done a few pens TBC using the bushings I bought for the pens from PSI. Seems they work just fine. I'd like to do more TBC but I run in to problems with small tubes. Not enough room between the head and tail stocks to get my 6" tool rest between them. That's the smallest tool rest I have. You do you pros do for small tubes? For example, a Woodcraft Retro? Those tubes are SMALL.

There are only three things you need to try tbc, one you should already have, the 60 degree live center for your tail stock ( not the stock cup center that comes with most lathes).

The two other necessities are a 60 degree dead center for the headstock and, as you have discovered, a short tool rest as you will be turning only one blank at a time. Check out member Rick Herrell ... He makes nice custom rests.
Special tbc bushings are great but not necessary to get started.

 

[Russknan]

I am leaning toward tbc. So many things to pick up with the different lathe. It is a serious change of direction after planning on rigging up the taig.

Extra question: where is a good place to pick up 2 mt centers? I am going to need live, dead and drill chuck.

No hesitation for me, John Goodin (Johnny CNC) Penturnersproducts.com. Or, you could do like I did. Buy elsewhere, be vaguely dissatisfied, then buy John's stuff. Jacobs chuck is full 5/8" and has a massive chuck key. Jaws are beautiful. Live center is similarly superior. You can probably get a decent dead center in a variety of places, in addition to John. Russ

 

[Dan Masshardt]

There's special bushings for TBC? I didn't know that. I've done a few pens TBC using the bushings I bought for the pens from PSI. Seems they work just fine. I'd like to do more TBC but I run in to problems with small tubes. Not enough room between the head and tail stocks to get my 6" tool rest between them. That's the smallest tool rest I have. You do you pros do for small tubes? For example, a Woodcraft Retro? Those tubes are SMALL.

Absolutely get a shorter tool rest. Rick will make you are great one for 20% off this month. Check out the bash vendor discounts.

 

[mikespenturningz]

I just cut the ends off my rest so it would fit. Then I ordered one from Rick Herrell. Love his rest that is for sure.

 

[TonyL]

Made my first 15 pens with a mandrel and my results were inconsistent regardless of turning one barrel or two at a time. The next 50 pens were TBC and I don't see a reason (for me) to go back to using a mandrel. I have even used TBCs to "fix" OOR, mandrel-made pens for myself and a fellow turner. I use my mandrel (and mandrel- saver) for sanding and finishing double barrel pens.