Surprise Order From Qatar...need advice or shipping and other....

[Timbo]

I unexpectedly received an order from Qatar today. I was surprised because I thought my website was configured to not except overseas orders. The order was processed via Paypal with a shipping charge of $5.99, which is what I normally charge for this weight order when shipped domestically. A quick online check showed that it can cost nearly 10X that amount to ship to Qatar, that does not include insurance. The order is worth over $1000.00.

I don't really want to eat those added costs, but I'm concerned I may lose the order should I contact the customer and ask for more money.

Two questions:

1) What would you do?
2) For those with experience...what method do you use to ship to the Middle East?

Thanks

 

[sbell111]

1) For a thousand dollar order that was processed by my website, I'd eat the shipping fee. They paid what you (via your website) instructed them to.

2) No help there as we would not ship to the Middle East.

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

Refuse the order and send back the money with the note saying due to a web site issue the order should not have been accepted. Sorry for any confusion. Then fast fix the web site so it can't happen again.

 

[Curly]

Refuse the order and send back the money with the note saying due to a web site issue the order should not have been accepted. Sorry for any confusion. Then fast fix the web site so it can't happen again.

Perhaps you could explain why you would cancel the order. That way Timbo and perhaps others, would understand your recommendation.

 

[eranox]

Eat the shipping cost, for sure. I'd do this regardless since it would have been my website that led them astray, but I'd esecially do it for such a large order.

Mail the package USPS, with all the insurance and tracking number bells and whistles. You will not be able to ship bottles of ink, but pen refills should not be a problem. You'll need to fill out a simple customs form (PO staff will show you what to do if you need it), and that's that. I would definitely insure the package.

Qatar is a nice place. Most of the locals men wear the traditional white robe, dishdasha, which is pretty plain. So, many of the men keep a nice pen in the front pocket as a sort of pocket jewelry. If your pens are a hit, I would not be surprised if you receive more orders.

 

[BJohn]

First thing I would do is get the funds transferred from paypal before I sent him anything. Hope you have done what I did when I started paypal. Have paypal attached to a bank account that is separate from every other account/credit cards.

I made the mistake before when I sold something for $1,400.00 to a guy in Argentina. he did not like it when it was received. In his attempt to get a refund he almost got the money back from paypal and my credit card, While he still had the merchandise.

Also here at work we constantly get orders from Africa and the Middle East on our web site that look good but the credit cards are no good. Pay Pal takes payment through credit cards.

IN THIS CASE SELLER BE CAREFUL

Do some polite research first.

Don't mean to sound negative. Hope is legit.

 

[Paul in OKC]

Is it an APO? Military address overseas just like shipping anywhere in the states.

 

[Smitty37]

First - see if the buyer's address is verified at PayPal. If it is not, cancel the order and send a note to the buyer to get his shipping address verified.

If he paid by credit card I'd be very careful paypal is for all practical purposes out of the loop on any charge back to the credit card. Make sure you can put the money where PayPal does not have access to it.

Check with the Post Office. Ask if you can get delivery confirmation tracking within Qatar on Priority Mail. If you can shipping there is probably safe enough.

Don't hesitate to ask for more money for shipping....if the buyer is experienced in buying from the USA he will be well aware that $5.99 would not cover international shipping. You might offer Express shipping, which is very costly but guarantees delivery. If he doesn't feel he needs that go with Priority Mail.

I unexpectedly received an order from Qatar today. I was surprised because I thought my website was configured to not except overseas orders. The order was processed via Paypal with a shipping charge of $5.99, which is what I normally charge for this weight order when shipped domestically. A quick online check showed that it can cost nearly 10X that amount to ship to Qatar, that does not include insurance. The order is worth over $1000.00.

I don't really want to eat those added costs, but I'm concerned I may lose the order should I contact the customer and ask for more money.

Two questions:

1) What would you do?
2) For those with experience...what method do you use to ship to the Middle East?

Thanks

 

[greggas]

Fror an order that size I would eat the charge. I like keeping folks that buy $1000 worth of pens happy...they will buy more ....I have shipped there and the cost is not that crazy.

Keep the high end buyers happy....they ALWAYS come back if they like the product

 

[Timbo]

This has been very helpful, so thank you to all that have responded so far. I have a 2-day show this weekend so I'm trying to get some response to the customer tonight if possible., so I appreciate the quick responses.

The consensus seems to be that I should eat the added shipping costs, although I'm not 100% decided that's probably what I'll do should I go forward with the sale. The are some other concerns.

 

[Timbo]

First - see if the buyer's address is verified at PayPal. If it is not, cancel the order and send a note to the buyer to get his shipping address verified.

If he paid by credit card I'd be very careful paypal is for all practical purposes out of the loop on any charge back to the credit card. Make sure you can put the money where PayPal does not have access to it.

Check with the Post Office. Ask if you can get delivery confirmation tracking within Qatar on Priority Mail. If you can shipping there is probably safe enough.

Don't hesitate to ask for more money for shipping....if the buyer is experienced in buying from the USA he will be well aware that $5.99 would not cover international shipping. You might offer Express shipping, which is very costly but guarantees delivery. If he doesn't feel he needs that go with Priority Mail.


Thanks

Smitty - I just read Paypal's "Seller Protection Policy". It seemed that if I followed all of their "requirements", then I should be protected. Is there some loophole I'm missing?

The shipping address is NOT verified, so that's a red flag. It's a requirement of the Seller Protection Policy. I'm going to refund the payment and request that he get his address verified. I'll think more on how to communicate the increased shipping/insurance should I choose to take that route. Thanks for your help.

 

[KenV]

First concern should be fraud. Several talked around it. It takes days/weeks to clear, and Pay Pal will not be your friend if the account was hacked, or the credit card bounces.

You stand to lose. Verify that this is a valid transaction.

 

[sbell111]

This has been very helpful, so thank you to all that have responded so far. I have a 2-day show this weekend so I'm trying to get some response to the customer tonight if possible., so I appreciate the quick responses.

The consensus seems to be that I should eat the added shipping costs, although I'm not 100% decided that's probably what I'll do should I go forward with the sale. The are some other concerns.

Just to make my earlier post clearer, I'd eat the shipping charge not because it was a large order, but because it is the honorable thing to do. I would honor the agreement as I made it.

 

[Wingdoctor]

Paypal is strange, but I do use it. A buyer can claim that you did not send what they ordered under Paypal's buyer protection. Paypal then tells them to send the items back and ship them with a delivery confirmation. They can ship you a used brick and if the shipping shows the package was delivered, Paypal will immediately debit your account and credit the buyer. It does not matter that you did not get the item you shipped, back, only that the buyer sent you a package and you received it.

It is also normally not possible to get tracking on an overseas package through the USPS. Only if you use something like Fed Ex.

Be very cautious of Middle East or African orders. There are many evil people who make a living bilking other citizens of the world.

 

[Smitty37]

Paypal is strange, but I do use it. A buyer can claim that you did not send what they ordered under Paypal's buyer protection. Paypal then tells them to send the items back and ship them with a delivery confirmation. They can ship you a used brick and if the shipping shows the package was delivered, Paypal will immediately debit your account and credit the buyer. It does not matter that you did not get the item you shipped, back, only that the buyer sent you a package and you received it.

It is also normally not possible to get tracking on an overseas package through the USPS. Only if you use something like Fed Ex.

Be very cautious of Middle East or African orders. There are many evil people who make a living bilking other citizens of the world.

It depends on where you are shipping it and how. It isn't cheap. I believe they call it "Global Express" and you can get tracking and delivery confirmation.

That is really not much different than a credit card charge back. The all generally favor the buyer. The buyer can claim non-receipt even if you can show delivery confirmation - thay claim the package didn't have the items described. I recently had a charge back claiming 'unauthorized use' and even though the package was confirmed as delivered and not returned the buyer got a refund.

 

[Leatherman1998]

I would send it back and ask for bitcoin.

 

[Chatham PenWorks]

1) For a thousand dollar order that was processed by my website, I'd eat the shipping fee. They paid what you (via your website) instructed them to.

It's really that simple.

 

[Smitty37]

Not just the shipping charges to think about.

Checking what USPS has to say about it, there is more involved shipping to Qatar then just the cost. There are a lot of restrictions on what can be shipped into Qatar, the value that can be imported, etc. And in some cases if you do it wrong the shipment can be seized...Just for one instance, it might not clear customs if you don't have the Harmonized Code. You need to have the buyer's phone number and it must be a land line....and on and on. If it were me I'd refund the money and forget it. I refuse to sell to most of the Middle East, most of Africa, much of Eastern Europe, most of Asia and all of South America. For a small business, it's just not worth the bother.

Incidently I have had the very first shipments to some country's reported as "not delivered" and had to eat the cost...problem is you really don't know most of the time whether it get delivered or not.

 

[robutacion]

Well,

I see a lot of different opinions about this issue, and on reality they are all "PLAUSIBLE" however, lets take a step back and think of this.

Some how, an international sale has come through when the site wasn't set up for such, someone paid $1,000 in items and paid what the shipping charges requested so, the Buyer done nothing wrong.

How would I deal with the issue (do it all the time...!), I would send a message/email to the Buyer, thanking him/her for the order and explaining that the shipping charges showing on you site, are only for national sales and that you weren't aware that International sales/order could be possible.

I would provide the shipping cost of at least 2 options, all with some sort of registration or tracking and advise that, the order can not be fulfilled unless the correct shipping charges are paid. I would give 48 hours to have that payment adjustment coming through but, I would be the one to send him/her (make reference of that) an extra invoice/money request, if that payment is not made, then the full amount paid, would be returned and the order, cancelled.

Yes, you tend to get a little harsh, as a seller, when someone rips-you-off and you want to put all these restrictions and securities however, if you are targetted to be ripped-off, on the other end, "they" respond depending upon the level of difficulty you present them with and the chances are, they will have a solution for each one and you will get ripped-off, like it or not...!

I had once an "honest thief", that told me that, he looks around the stores for those with rude messages about who they want their buyers to be and put all these warning messages, tags, whistles and bells about being "bullet proof", these guys love that, and that's exactly what they are looking for to "hit" as hard as they can, they pleasure is to target those people and show them that, the more red flags they wave, the more bulls they attract...!

I have had a huge difference in scam attempts, since I removed all the red flags and made it as discrete and possible.

Again, this has been working for me, it doesn't mean that it will work for you however, the chances are, the same rules apply...!

Cheers
George

 

[Smitty37]

Well,

I see a lot of different opinions about this issue, and on reality they are all "PLAUSIBLE" however, lets take a step back and think of this.

Some how, an international sale has come through when the site wasn't set up for such, someone paid $1,000 in items and paid what the shipping charges requested so, the Buyer done nothing wrong.

How would I deal with the issue (do it all the time...!), I would send a message/email to the Buyer, thanking him/her for the order and explaining that the shipping charges showing on you site, are only for national sales and that you weren't aware that International sales/order could be possible.

I would provide the shipping cost of at least 2 options, all with some sort of registration or tracking and advise that, the order can not be fulfilled unless the correct shipping charges are paid. I would give 48 hours to have that payment adjustment coming through but, I would be the one to send him/her (make reference of that) an extra invoice/money request, if that payment is not made, then the full amount paid, would be returned and the order, cancelled.

Yes, you tend to get a little harsh, as a seller, when someone rips-you-off and you want to put all these restrictions and securities however, if you are targetted to be ripped-off, on the other end, "they" respond depending upon the level of difficulty you present them with and the chances are, they will have a solution for each one and you will get ripped-off, like it or not...!

I had once an "honest thief", that told me that, he looks around the stores for those with rude messages about who they want their buyers to be and put all these warning messages, tags, whistles and bells about being "bullet proof", these guys love that, and that's exactly what they are looking for to "hit" as hard as they can, they pleasure is to target those people and show them that, the more red flags they wave, the more bulls they attract...!

I have had a huge difference in scam attempts, since I removed all the red flags and made it as discrete and possible.

Again, this has been working for me, it doesn't mean that it will work for you however, the chances are, the same rules apply...!

Cheers
George

I mostly agree with you George, but there are certain parts of the world that I just won't ship to....Now my store is set so orders from those parts of the world won't be accepted and if one happens to get through I will cancel it with a note that I ship only certain countries and theirs is one that I won't ship to. Also in my case, I am suspicious of a 1st order from anyone that reaches $1000 and would probably contact them to be sure they had not made a mistake.

 

[Whaler]

Cancel the sale, walk away from it and count yourself lucky.

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

Refuse the order and send back the money with the note saying due to a web site issue the order should not have been accepted. Sorry for any confusion. Then fast fix the web site so it can't happen again.

Perhaps you could explain why you would cancel the order. That way Timbo and perhaps others, would understand your recommendation.

For starters, I don't have to explain why. If anything it is for Tim to ask that, not YOU! However since I will basically echo myself as well as other who have provided the same SMART and Wise Sage-like advice...

Simple really even to say it is common sense to refuse payment.

Red Flag #:

• An out of the blue order for $1,000.
• Order is from somewhere that the people would rather kill me than look at me.
• Custom Fees and Duties are not my responsibility BUT those damn forms in Quadruplet certainly are.

I don't know what this person purchased from Tim, but it isn't up to him as to what the Customs person says it is. IF they open the box and see that though the customs tag says Wood turned Custom Pen. That Customs agent could say well that is a Item of Office Supply and let the package go on its way. OR they can say that it is Fine Art and Confiscate the contents and send an empty box to that customer.

This is the information that the USPS has on Shipping Packages to Qatar

One last thing. You never, NEVER eat profits for the sake of a sale because of an Internet Shipping SNAFU. Especially when Pay Pal is involved. Seller protection, you don't really have any, They the international Buyer holds all the cards because unless you do ship via UPS or FED EX you will have no method to prove that it was delivered. Don't bother spending money on insurance either, they have to fill out forms too and they don't care they just want their money back plus plus plus.

Again Just Refuse the sale, and move on.

 

[Curly]

My appoligies for offending you. That was not my intent. Up to that point you were the first one to offer the advice to not do the deal but without any indication as to why and thats the reason I felt your response didn't give Timbo the most important piece of information. I didn't feel it was my place to elaborate on your post. For what it's worth I would have been very suspicious of the order and declined too.

As for the declarations you're required to fill out, that is something we don't have. On the mailing label the PO sticks on the package you have about 5 lines of 2" long to fill out for 5 items with the dollar value and that's it. The worst part is trying to see and write in such a tiny space.

Again, I'm sorry to have offered you and will make a point of not commenting on your posts.

 

[Smitty37]

My appoligies for offending you. That was not my intent. Up to that point you were the first one to offer the advice to not do the deal but without any indication as to why and thats the reason I felt your response didn't give Timbo the most important piece of information. I didn't feel it was my place to elaborate on your post. For what it's worth I would have been very suspicious of the order and declined too.

As for the declarations you're required to fill out, that is something we don't have. On the mailing label the PO sticks on the package you have about 5 lines of 2" long to fill out for 5 items with the dollar value and that's it. The worst part is trying to see and write in such a tiny space.

Again, I'm sorry to have offered you and will make a point of not commenting on your posts.

The forms we fill out are determined by international agreements international agreement ... they are the same forms my chinese vendors fill out to ship to me and actually the same forms I fill out to send to Canada. All the information required on them is not the same for every nation but I seriously doubt that you'll get away with just 5 lines to ship to any country. For instance, Qatar, the importer must have a license to import almost any product...that license number must appear on the import documents.....

 

[sbell111]

Pete asked a simple and reasonable question. There was no reason to be rude to him.

 

[Smitty37]

Pete asked a simple and reasonable question. There was no reason to be rude to him.

If you mean my post Steve, I was not being rude, just stating some facts...

 

[Curly]

Smitty. Here is a picture (hopefully) of the label that we fill out and stick on the packages we send. I have used them on parcels to the US, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, Singapore and maybe a few more I've forgotten.

PS. I wasn't offended.

 

[Smitty37]

Smitty. Here is a picture (hopefully) of the label that we fill out and stick on the packages we send. I have used them on parcels to the US, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, Singapore and maybe a few more I've forgotten.



View attachment 119108

Note that none of the countries you mentioned are a) Middle Eastern Countries or b) Muslim Countries.

I use a similar form to a lot of places. From the USA that can be used only for items weighing 4 pounds or less, fit in a small flat rate box and are valued at less than $400.00 (USD). Beyond any of those limits there is another form that must be provided in Triplicat with a 4th copy inside the package.

Qatar would not be one of the Countries I'd use the short form for---at least that would not be the only form. When you ship to any other country, there are two sets of laws regarding shipments that you must obey - your country's and the receiving country's. You can not assume that all countries you ship too have the same rules - they do not. Qatar has some very specific rules that must be followed...they have restrictions on the receiver of the goods (the importer) for instance if the value is more than $822 it is subject to customs. All importers must have a license and that license number must appear on the invoice or the waybill accompaning the package. They can't import anything prohibited by the Muslim Religion.... but you get the drift.

 

[Joe S.]

Not to be too much of a grammar jerk, but your website did in fact "not except" the order. :biggrin:

 

[Smitty37]

Not to be too much of a grammar jerk, but your website did in fact "not except" the order. :biggrin:

Whose website?

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

My appoligies for offending you. That was not my intent. Up to that point you were the first one to offer the advice...

...Again, I'm sorry ...

Sorry for coming off as a complete A*****e I am altering my nicotine intake from one form to another... That is not an excuse, more like a reason. So I will apologize too.
Make comments to my post... that is the special thing of this site. as long as one refrains using the 7 words you can't say on TV circa 1972 you most certainly can comment on anyone's post.

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

Not to be too much of a grammar jerk, but your website did in fact "not except" the order. :biggrin:

Whose website?

Pssst Smitty... I think Joe is referring to Timbo's :wink::wink:

 

[chrisk]

IMHO, and after reading the above comments, I'd contact UPS or DHL and ask them some details about shipping to Qatar. If they aren't any exclusions... I'd contact the customer firstly to inform him about national (as suggested on your website) and international shipping alternatives. Then you could explain him that to some countries, like Qatar, you only ship with DHL or UPS, specially for such orders.
This way, I think you could avoid the outcomes raised by the colleagues above.

 

[sbell111]

Pete asked a simple and reasonable question. There was no reason to be rude to him.

If you mean my post Steve, I was not being rude, just stating some facts...

I wasn't referring to your post.

 

[raar25]

I would go to the USPS website and find out what first class international shipping costs are first. If the shipping to the address is so large it eats your profits you will then be working for the pleasure of sending out your pens with nothing to show for it. If you have enough profit to cover the additional shipping then fill the order. I agree with the above comments make sure the addres is verified by pay pal and wait till the money is in your account before you ship the order.

Lastly you may have to turn down the order and that may just be part of doing business. There is no way a business can be everything to everyone and if you are not geared to ship international than just accept that and politely cancel the order and explain that your web page had a problem and you dont ship international.

 

[Timbo]

After cancelling the original order, and refunding the customer's payment, I sent a note explaining the website shipping snafu, and the fact that he would need to get Paypal verified before I could consider shipping product to him. I got a note back saying "I don't have any problems with my address in Paypal. I hope you process my order for your beautiful pens.". I'm not sure he knows what it means to be verified. I also got new orders from him for the same two products. I was busy with a show last weekend, and had some other caching up to do so I sat on it until today.

I spent this morning figuring out how to restrict orders to the 50 states & DC on my ZenCart based website. I then cancelled his new order, refunded his new payment, then sent another note indicating I don't ship to countries outside of the USA at this time. I also included a link to the Paypal verification process. Let's see what happens now.

The address he provided when he ordered was of a well known hotel chain...sounds really fishy right. Out of curiosity I Googled his name and the address provided. Well I got back a photo of the guy with five other dignitaries, and a well known sports figure, whom he was handing an award to. The caption listed the names of the dignitaries and their titles which can be verified by other searches, AND his title has him working for the hotel at the address he listed. The guy is probably ligit, but I still don't want to deal with the potential crap should it hit the fan.

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

OUTSTANDING Detective work! Good Job! Sorry about the potential income that was lost. BUT you might have saved well over that amount in the long run. :good::good::RockOn:

 

[Smitty37]

Getting your shopping cart to reject international orders or apply a different rate might be a little tricky but it can be done. I apply one rate to shipping to Canada and a higher rate shipping to all other countries that I ship to because USPS charges less to ship to Canada. I couldn't figure out how to do it myself but it only took 10 minutes talking to a support person to learn.

If you have support for your website, they should be able to tell you how to do it...it is a common thing, so there shouldn't be any big problem. Barring that there's probably an ap that you can load that will handle it.

 

[Timbo]

Getting your shopping cart to reject international orders or apply a different rate might be a little tricky but it can be done. I apply one rate to shipping to Canada and a higher rate shipping to all other countries that I ship to because USPS charges less to ship to Canada. I couldn't figure out how to do it myself but it only took 10 minutes talking to a support person to learn.

If you have support for your website, they should be able to tell you how to do it...it is a common thing, so there shouldn't be any big problem. Barring that there's probably an ap that you can load that will handle it.

Thanks. My hosting service provides support for hosting related problem only, they don't support Zen Cart itself. Zen Cart has great search based help on their support site, I used that to help figure out what I needed to do. I tried to place an order on my site using the Qatar address, and it was rejected, so I believe I got it figured out.

 

[Smitty37]

Good job