Stars & Stripes Emperor pen

[cueman]

I have someone interested in an Emperor pen done with the Stars and Stripes inlay kit, but they have one in the Gentlemen's pen version and they said the stars under the clip are closer together than the rest, and doesn't think they should be like that. Sooo, my question is: Does anyone know whether the stars on the Emperor kit get closer together at any point on the cap, the kit I am looking at is from Kallenshaan Woods. I am thinking they might have the Jr Gent's and there is less room for all the stars on the cap. Thanks.

 

[Mikey]

If they look closer, it would be becuase the person who made the pen placed the clip there. I have a Gent kit and haven't noticed anything like what you say. I also find it odd because one can put the clip anywhere around the pen they like. Perhaps the finish on the clip is creating an optical illusion?

 

[wdcav1952]

I have to agree with Mikey on this. Also, this sounds like a customer who might be very difficult to satisfy. One thing I learned over the years is that some customers aren't worth putting up with.

 

[mick]

I've not made an Emperor in the Stars n Stripes but I've made quite a few Barons and yes there are two rows of stripes that are "closer" together as there are 5 in each row. On a normal flag you have six rows of five stars and five rows of four with two of the rows of five being on the outsides of the field. Wrap this in a cylinder and you have these two rows next to each other. I've never seen this stated in any instructions but common sense tells me to hide this you put the clip over those two rows! I point out to my customers that there are exactly fifty stars on this pen. Only then if they notice the pattern being "off" will I explain why.

 

[mrcook4570]

As others have said, I have never seen any with stars that are closer, but there will be two rows of five that are adjacent. I only wish the barrel had 13 stripes, instead of 14.

 

[Randy_]

I have a kit for the Jr. Statesman and it does have a "peculiarity" in the star pattern. I suspect this is true for all of the different versions; but can't say for sure. The basic star pattern is alternating rows of 4 and 5 stars. There is, however, one spot where two 5 star rows are adjacent to each other. Near as I can tell, the rows are all equally spaced; but the stars, themselves, are closer together because they are adjacent to each other laterally rather than diagonally. (Easy to see; but hard to describe.) Given the size of the blanks and the geometry of the pattern, I don't think there is anything you can do about this "problem" short of giving Texas back to Mexico.[] If a customer doesn't like it, too bad, he'll just have to buy a different pen.

Honestly, I had never noticed that there were 14 stripes, before. I have no idea why Ken did that. Guess someone should email him and ask. I can speculate that he did it for artistic reasons......maybe the stripes were too wide for his taste when there were only 13 of them?? I really don't know; but I'm thinking I, like Stan, would prefer only 13 stripes, too.[?][?]

Now that I think about, giving Texas away wouldn't fix the problem. You would then just have two 4 star rows next to each other....less stars; but same problem.

 

[mick]

Originally posted by Randy_
<br />

Honestly, I had never noticed that there were 14 stripes, before. I have no idea why Ken did that. Guess someone should email him and ask. I can speculate that he did it for artistic reasons......maybe the stripes were too wide for his taste when there were only 13 of them?? I really don't know; but I'm thinking I, like Stan, would prefer only 13 stripes, too.[?][?]

The Barrel has to have 14 stripes. When you cut areas out of the red dyed material, in order to insert the undyed maple "stripe" you have to end up with an even number of stripes. It's the same as my above post concerning the two rows of five stars touching. If you were to roll the stripes part of a flag into a cylinder you would have two red stripes touching. So the extra white stripe is added in order to keep the pattern in the right order.

 

[ctEaglesc]

I guess it's not KEns fault, blame it on Betsy Ross and the Founding fathers.
Perhaps if they had a Lzewr they would have made it "right"
Regardless, taken into account that each one is exactly the same as countless others except for that varying grain and washed out colors, one has to marvel at what a machine and a computer can do.

 

[Monty]

Originally posted by Randy_I don't think there is anything you can do about this "problem" short of giving Texas back to Mexico.[]

Actually Texas was a separate republic before it joined the US, and is the only state that can legally secede for the union. Therefore we should become a separate country. [][][]

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by Monty
<br />

Originally posted by Randy_I don't think there is anything you can do about this "problem" short of giving Texas back to Mexico.[]

Actually Texas was a separate republic before it joined the US, and is the only state that can legally secede for the union. Therefore we should become a separate country. [][][]

I remember reading that and always thought it was ridiculous they sued to call the Cowboys "Americas Team"
The Cowboys suck the big one.

 

[DCBluesman]

Ok, time to clear up the mystery. There is no "easy" solution to the proximity of the stars in the adjacent rows. The pacing of the stars in the other, alternating columns is a product of the fact that each column of 4 is surrounded by a column of 5. The spacing comes from the fact that, except for the two adjacent colums of 5, the combination of 3 stars in two columns forms a triangle which adds to the spaing between each star. It is mathematically not possible to get the same spacing on the two 5-star colums without extending beyond the squareness of the field of stars. As for the stripes, on a cylinder, mathematically, the only odd number of stripes you can have is one. Don't believe it? Take an empty papertowel center and try it!

 

[ed4copies]

For the purists:

Make one of the white stripes black. Then there will be 7 red (correct), 6 white (correct) and one black which represents the start and finish.

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />.....As for the stripes, on a cylinder, mathematically, the only odd number of stripes you can have is one. Don't believe it? Take an empty papertowel center and try it!

I agree with what Lou has to say about the star pattern and said the same earlier; but in not quite such a round about way.[8D]

As to his "stripes" analysis, I must respectfully disagree. Guess I learned math at the "old" school?? The formula for the circumference of a circle is: C = 3.1416D. It is obvious from looking at that formula that there is no restriction on the number of stripes that can be placed around the circumference of a circle except that "0" doesn't work.

Lou: Draw a 2.07" circle and divide it into 0.5" parts and see how many you get? Hitting the eggnog a little earlier this year, buddy?? [][]

Hey, just kidding.........


<b> P.S. I'll give you a clue.....it's not an even number!!</b>

 

[TAld]

WOW this getting way over my head.
Hey!!!! I got it--a square pen [][]

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by Monty
<br />.....Actually Texas was a separate republic before it joined the US, and is the only state that can legally secede for the union. Therefore we should become a separate country. [][][]

Of course, before it was a Republic, it belonged to Mexico until a bunch of renegades from Pennsylvania and Tennessee stole it!! [][]

I have seen the "secession thing" posted before along with the suggestion that it is correct for the Texas state flag to be displayed at the same height as the US flag. I have also seen it posted that both of these "facts" are urban legends and are not true. Never seen a definitive source that gives me confidence as to which is really true??

 

[DCBluesman]

Randy - Sorry but your analysis is incorrect in that you left out an underlying assumption. Noone of the contiguous segments can be the same color. Sorry, for once I am right...and mathematically provable.

 

[leevis]

There can be an odd number of "stripes" or "segments" around a cylinder. However, you can't have an odd number of segments if you want to have alternating colors. If you try it, you'll always end up with two adjacent segments being the same color.

 

[ed4copies]

Hence the solution of painting one white, black.


Geeze, you guys, get with it!!!

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />.....As for the stripes, on a cylinder, mathematically, <b>the only odd number of stripes you can have is one</b>. Don't believe it? Take an empty papertowel center and try it!

OK......lets call it a tie!![][] You "CAN" have 13 stripes on a cylinder or any other odd number for that matter.(I'm not sure that one is a correct answer but we can debate that another day.)

But you are correct in pointing out that when using only two colors, two adjoining stripes will be of the same color and will give the appearance of one wider stripe. Now I see what you were getting at.

I guess we now know why Ken came up with the pattern that he did!!

Merry Christmas, again!![]

 

[ed4copies]

Maybe I didn't mention:


PAINT A WHITE ONE BLACK!!!!!!!!!

Now you have the correct number of each and the pen looks like crud!!! BUT, you feel better!!!!????????[}][}][}][}]

 

[Randy_]

Ed: You are right on the ball today!!.....[8].....[}][}]

 

[Randy_]

Originally posted by ed4copies
<br />Maybe I didn't mention:


PAINT A WHITE ONE BLACK!!!!!!!!!

Now you have the correct number of each and the pen looks like crud!!! BUT, you feel better!!!!????????[}][}][}][}]

When you think about it, "painting" an extra white one is "EXACTLY" what Ken did!!![^]

 

[ed4copies]

I am ALWAYS on the ball, just takes you guys a while to NOTICE!!!!

Happy Holidays!!!

 

[DCBluesman]

I figured it out! 26 Stripes, every other one being .042" (aproximately the thickness of European Veneer) of black polyurethane. Place a red stripe between two of the veneer stripes. Continuing around the blank and starting with a white stripe, after the initial red, and alternate the pattern. At the end you will have 13 stripes of veneer cleverly alternating with 7 red stripes and 6 white stripes. And Ken should be able to keep the cost of a blank under $250! Not only that, but Ken can insert a 1/4 stripe of white poly resin between the two contiguous columns of 5 stars so that only the poly resin is under the clip and the stars can be evenly spaced. After all of this, I need a Red Stripe (excellent Jamaican beer!) []

 

[ed4copies]

Originally posted by DCBluesman
<br />I figured it out! 26 Stripes, every other one being .042" (aproximately the thickness of European Veneer) of black polyurethane. Place a red stripe between two of the veneer stripes. Continuing around the blank and starting with a white stripe, after the initial red, and alternate the pattern. At the end you will have 13 stripes of veneer cleverly alternating with 7 red stripes and 6 white stripes. And Ken should be able to keep the cost of a blank under $250! Not only that, but Ken can insert a 1/4 stripe of white poly resin between the two contiguous columns of 5 stars so that only the poly resin is under the clip and the stars can be evenly spaced. After all of this, I need a Red Stripe (excellent Jamaican beer!) []

The (Paul Harvey) REST of the story:

The unsuspecting pen maker will receive the kit, then start assembly. Of course, currently, it takes about an hour and a half of actual working time to glue in the components. Having now 21 inserts instead of the 7 that were formerly in the kit, each time one of the stripes is inserted with its microscopic, albeit beautiful, veneer accoutrements, each merrily sliding in the watered-down white glue until it ultimately settles and is clamped in place.

The next morning, our fastidious pen-maker can view his creation, jump out the window in frustration and have his family retain an ambulance chaser to go after Ken.

I am sure Ken is happy for all this feedback and VALUABLE suggestions.

I repeat: Happy Holidays, one and all!!

 

[cueman]

SORRY! I didn't intend to start a debate, but it was interesting anyway []. I explained to the person about the two adjoining rows of five and that it may not be as noticeable due to the wider clip of the Emperor pen. Thanks to all for the replies.

 

[Randy_]

No need to apologize. Debate is good!!