Stablization revisited again

[joeyh]

I've seen anough different types of stabliation products talked about to make my head spin. We've got Nelsonite, Bondo wood stabilizor, MinWax Wood Hardener, Plexiglas or celluloide in acetone, polyeurathane, lacquer. I don't think that I saw thin ca glue mentioned. Is this due to expence, or is there another reason?[?]
I was thinking that since it's already being used as a finish,and as a way to stabilize from the outside on corn cob pens, then why couldn't it be used the way these other products have been?

Michael

 

[Scottydont]

CA is activated by the moisture present it the object you are gluing. Even if you introduced a pen blank to CA under vacuum it would begin to cure. Secondly you are right that it would be cost prohibitive. I stabilize my own blanks with Minwax water or oil based poly with good results.

 

[DCBluesman]

Scott's right. Even if you stabilize as you get the blank rounded and near sized AND if you buy through our bulk purchase, it's VERY expensive to stabilize with CA.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

Scott, I am no expert and slap me down if you must.

I think that CA glue cures in the absence of air or oxygen, and from certain catalysts. CA accelerator is usually acetone. If water did the trick then accelerator would not cost $5 for a little tiny bottle. It would come out of the spigot. Paper towels will cause it to react and so, I understand, will cotton cloth.

Poly glue, like Gorilla brand, reacts to moisture.
Mac

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

And I would also add that you couldn't glue ceramics, metals, plastics and other man made stuff with it cause there is no moisture in those products. You would have to provided it artificially. I have glued all of the above and more without adding any moisture to the mix.

 

[DCBluesman]

Hmmm. Seems we visited this question once before, but I can't find the link. Here's the scoop from a frustrated chemist.

Cyanoacrylate is an acrylic resin that cures (forms its strongest bond) almost instantly. The only trigger it requires is the hydroxyl ions in water, which is convenient since virtually any object you might wish to glue will have at least trace amounts of water on its surface. BTW, the water can be simply the humidity in the air!

White glues, such as Elmer's, bond by solvent evaporation. The solvent in Elmer's all-purpose school glue is water. When the water evaporates, the polyvinylacetate latex that has spread into a material's crevices forms a flexible bond. Super glue, on the other hand, undergoes a process called anionic polymerization. Cyanoacrylate molecules start linking up when they come into contact with water, and they whip around in chains to form a durable plastic mesh. The glue thickens and hardens until the thrashing molecular strands can no longer move.

I hope this clears things up for you. [8D]

 

[dougle40]

WOW --- To a layman , thats about as clear as mud !!![] But I take it that you're saying that CA dries and hardens fast !![][]LOL

 

[penhead]

I am currently suffering from a sore throat, stuffy nose...and it just made my head hurt reading that...I do recogonize the word water in there several times though..I think.

JohnPayton

 

[DCBluesman]

Ok, for those of you who really don't care why acetone can be used as an accelerator or a de-bonder, just a simple explanation and then you can skip onto the next thread []

Acetone is a solvent, pure and simple. What is different between the accelerators and the de-bonders is the other chemicals the acetone is mixed with. Some cause de-bonding, some cause accelerating. If you use both, just be sure they are labeled <b>obviously</b>.

Now, for us geeks, here's the details. CA dries very fast with water molecules or by adding heat. Adding more water does not decrease the curing time. (and it REALLY messes up some of our finishing steps. That's why we don't just use water to accelerate CA) An accelerator is a thin, clear fluid containing acetone solvent. For accelerant properties, it takes 5-10 seconds for this solvent to evaporate. An accelerator flows onto and covers parts readily and easily, providing an active surface for instant hardening regardless of surface composition or condition. Accelerators also contain methyl alcohol, which creates heat as it evaporates. It is the combination of this heat and the CA/moisture process which accelerates bonding. Debonders do not contain the methyl alcohol, thus not creating heat and allowing the acetone to act as a solvent for a longer period of time. Clear as mud? Probably. But this is quicker than taking Chemistry again! Besides, as long as it works, I'd rather be turning pens. [8D]

 

[Fred in NC]

Makes sense to me, Lou. . . I just had to read it VERY SLOWLY, and with my glasses on. Thanks.

 

[Scottydont]

Mac - "Scott, I am no expert and slap me down if you must. "

Thanks Lou. You saved me for having to slap Mac.

Great explanation. If any of you have ver had CA on your fingers and hit with mist from accelerator will understand the heat as a reaction of the two. I think the chemistry aspect of CA is pretty interesting.

 

[Mac In Oak Ridge]

I stand slaped, corrected and much more educated. Thank you all.
Mac

 

[wayneis]

FYI, Don't waist your bucks on the Nelsonite. The only thing that it does is stink and it takes forever for the smell to go away. I have a couple blanks that I soaked and have been drying for several months, but mostly waiting for the smell to go bye bye. When I finally got to turn one I could not see any difference at all. Anyone want a half gallon? I don't know what to do with the damn stuff. I can't just dump it outside, thats not cool and I'm afraid to dump it down the toilet who knows what would happen the next time I needed to set down on it.

Wayne

 

[woodspinner]

OK Lou
What is the formula to make my own accelerator. Acetone is a lot cheaper than what I have been buying.

Bill

 

[DCBluesman]

Well, Bill, I could tell you, but the CA manufacturers would have to kill me. By the way, did you ever stop to think that the guys who get us to glue our fingers together are the same ones who sell us stuff to get them apart? [8D]