Stabilizing at Home

[Fangar]

Hey fellas,

I've seen a lot of information regarding blank stabilization at home, but not too many conversation on results from those folks that have done it. I figured I would give it a go. I wen and bought a simple 20 dollar Vacuum hand pump from HF. These are normally used for older vehicle's vacuum systems, and also bleeding brakes, etc. I grabbed an old spaghetti sauce jar out of the fridge. I used a 3/8" fitting, and some quick dry epoxy to hold it all together. The small jar will hold 6 full sized blanks. I know that some people say to cut and drill the blanks first, but I thought I would live and learn. The blanks I had were useless in their dried state, so I thought I had nothing to lose. They are Cross cut very spalted maple. Cross cutting often weakens a wood, but these were so punky and light that you could barely tell when you were holding one. I just put them into the jar with Fast Drying Polyurethane, under 20 in lbs of vacuum. Looks promising so far. Here is a photo of the setup. I will take them out late tonight, and then let them dry for a few days. I will be out of town, but will let you know how they turn out.

Fangar

 

[darbytee]

Fangar, that's pretty much the exact same setup I have except that I use a 1 quart mason jar. It has worked pretty well for me, not as good as real resin stabilization but much better than turning dry punky wood.

 

[smoky10]

Were the blanks completely covered with the poly when you started? I may be wrong(that happens a lot[])but don't they have to be completely covered for it to work properly?

 

[rtparso]

I have a question about using poly to stablze. Doesn't poly need O2 to cure?

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by smoky10
<br />Were the blanks completely covered with the poly when you started? I may be wrong(that happens a lot[])but don't they have to be completely covered for it to work properly?

Smoky,

Good observation. This wood was so full of holes and air that the poly level was over the top when I started. Due to the fact that alot of it was drawn into the wood, it makes the tops of the blanks stick out. After about 10 minutes, I released the vacuum, and added some more poly. Then back up to 20 in lbs, and the blanks stayed covered. The poly will wick up a bit into the very tips is they are out, but it is better to have them fully submerged.

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by darbytee
<br />Fangar, that's pretty much the exact same setup I have except that I use a 1 quart mason jar. It has worked pretty well for me, not as good as real resin stabilization but much better than turning dry punky wood.

darbytee,

I will definately get a larger jar when the opportunity arises. This was all I had for the time being. The fitting was only a buck so I figured what the heck. A larger jar would surely be the ticket.

James

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by rtparso
<br />I have a question about using poly to stablze. Doesn't poly need O2 to cure?

rtparso,

The poly does need Oxygen to cure. The goal here is to get the poly to penetrate deep into the wood where it will hopefully stay when the wood is removed and left in open air to cure.

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[JimGo]

Thanks Fangar! BTW, where did you find the fitting?

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by JimGo
<br />Thanks Fangar! BTW, where did you find the fitting?

Lowe's. Home Depot will have them as well. They are gas fittings. I just took a small piece of the tubing into the store with me to check fit.

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[rtjw]

I have a little bit larger set up than yours. I have a 2.5 gallon setup that I can do around 50 blanks at a time. I am currently having a larger one built for me that would hold 5 gallons.

I also use the poly resin to stabilize. Alot of people can say what they want but I dont like the acrylic because I dont think it gets in the wood enough. I use a polyurethane base with a polyurethane adhesive additive. Along with a thinner to make an easier carrier.

I probably stabilize around 500 corn cobs a week right now. Hopefully will be able to do around 1000 pretty soon. I am just getting started in this stabilization process but hopefull pretty soon will be able to dye pen blanks also.

 

[melogic]

Thanks Fangar. This is a good bit of information to have.

 

[Fleabit]

Do all vacuum pumps require an air source (ie air compressor) to operate, or are there electrical one out there. Stupid question, but my little bit of research only shows ones that need a compressor.

Ok looked at the post again and saw it was a hand pump...still, any electrical ones out there?

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by Fleabit
<br />Do all vacuum pumps require an air source (ie air compressor) to operate, or are there electrical one out there. Stupid question, but my little bit of research only shows ones that need a compressor.

Ok looked at the post again and saw it was a hand pump...still, any electrical ones out there?

Anything that will pull the vacuum, and hold it should work. I have seen people using medical equiptment which is electric (Breast pumps). You could even uses a powerful electric vacuum (Shop vac with the proper fittings) and a valve that allows you to hold the pressure and release it. There is also a Black and Decker food saver on the market for 29 bucks that comes with a 1.5 quart vacuum jar. If it will pull the 20 in lbs, that would work fine. I like the guage on mine though, cause it gives you a target range.

Cheers,

Fangar

 

[melogic]

Seems to me the hand pump would be the way to go unless you are getting into some serious stabilizing. Neat and compact.

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by rtjw
<br />I have a little bit larger set up than yours. I have a 2.5 gallon setup that I can do around 50 blanks at a time. I am currently having a larger one built for me that would hold 5 gallons.

I also use the poly resin to stabilize. Alot of people can say what they want but I dont like the acrylic because I dont think it gets in the wood enough. I use a polyurethane base with a polyurethane adhesive additive. Along with a thinner to make an easier carrier.

I probably stabilize around 500 corn cobs a week right now. Hopefully will be able to do around 1000 pretty soon. I am just getting started in this stabilization process but hopefull pretty soon will be able to dye pen blanks also.

That is quite an operation. Good idea on the dying of blanks. I gotta try me some dat too!

James

 

[write-n-style]

Originally posted by Fleabit
<br />Do all vacuum pumps require an air source (ie air compressor) to operate, or are there electrical one out there. Stupid question, but my little bit of research only shows ones that need a compressor.

Ok looked at the post again and saw it was a hand pump...still, any electrical ones out there?

Here's is all the information you will want or need to make your own vacuum pump.
There are 2 sets of plans one with a compressor, one without.
http://www.joewoodworker.com/catalog/vacuum_press.php?osCsid=80a814d169891b96eecbcb3d76b26be0

 

[ryannmphs]

I have been very sucessfull using the FoodSaver brand vacuum sealer. I usually drill my blanks and at least turn them round (put tube in, but do not glue it in). I figure the less wood there is to try to stablize the better and the less waste I have.

Just MHO.

Ryan

 

[Fangar]

Well guys,

Just got back from a great vacation. Checked on the blanks that I stabilized using the home poly method. The average blank that was just over an ounce, is now nearly two ounces (Dry). I cut a couple of them up and drilled them. The "punkiness" was eliminated, and the endges are smooth. The spalting lines does not seem to have changed. I will most likely spin them out tomorrow. I will let you know how they turn. Cheers,

James

 

[Fleabit]

Cool. Can't wait to see how they turn out.

 

[swm6500]

Looking forward to seeing how they turn out James.

 

[Fangar]

Ok. Try and Try again. I had terrible luck with the blanks. But never fear, I have another option. This time I cut up some of the same blanks and drilled them. This will allow for better penetration into the centers of the wood (Where it's important). I was two for two explosions on the blanks that I attempted to turn. Cross cutting is rough enough without maple's temperment. I will keep you posted. Also, I got may hands on a larger jar (a couple quarts). Man, talk about a forearm workout pumping that think up to 20 in lbs. I lost count around 200 + pumps. []

Cheers.

James

 

[atvrules1]

James, keep trying, and thanks for sharing your results with us. We all await the next episode in the saga.

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by atvrules1
<br />James, keep trying, and <b>thanks for sharing your results with us</b>. We all await the next episode in the saga.

You bet.

James

 

[rtparso]

Fangar
Go down to the appliance repair shop and ask for an old refrigerator compressor. I have gotten a few for free. If someone busts a coil the compressor is still good but th fridge is un useable.

 

[ryannmphs]

Originally posted by Fangar
<br />Ok. Try and Try again. I had terrible luck with the blanks. But never fear, I have another option. This time I cut up some of the same blanks and drilled them. This will allow for better penetration into the centers of the wood (Where it's important). I was two for two explosions on the blanks that I attempted to turn. Cross cutting is rough enough without maple's temperment. I will keep you posted. Also, I got may hands on a larger jar (a couple quarts). Man, talk about a forearm workout pumping that think up to 20 in lbs. I lost count around 200 + pumps. []

Cheers.

James

James, I have found that for my stabilization at home it's best to cut, drill and turn round before stabilizing. I have done a few using the Foodsaver for the vacuum and I have had good luck with them.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Ryan

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by ryannmphs
<br />

Originally posted by Fangar
<br />Ok. Try and Try again. I had terrible luck with the blanks. But never fear, I have another option. This time I cut up some of the same blanks and drilled them. This will allow for better penetration into the centers of the wood (Where it's important). I was two for two explosions on the blanks that I attempted to turn. Cross cutting is rough enough without maple's temperment. I will keep you posted. Also, I got may hands on a larger jar (a couple quarts). Man, talk about a forearm workout pumping that think up to 20 in lbs. I lost count around 200 + pumps. []

Cheers.

James

James, I have found that for my stabilization at home it's best to cut, drill and turn round before stabilizing. I have done a few using the Foodsaver for the vacuum and I have had good luck with them.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Ryan

Ryan,

I see your point and would agree that would likely be best. These cross cut maple blanks are so punky, they explode when I try to turn them down at all. I think this might work. I am also looking into a different home stablization solution (mixture) other than poly.

James

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by rtparso
<br />Fangar
Go down to the appliance repair shop and ask for an old refrigerator compressor. I have gotten a few for free. If someone busts a coil the compressor is still good but th fridge is un useable.

Good idea.

James

 

[Fangar]

Just pulled the drilled blanks out of the ply. These were some that I had previously stabilized pior to cutting and drilling, so this time the did not gainas much weight, but did gain some. .4 ounces per pair on average (Nearly one ounce gained originally). But weight is obviously not the only indicator. I will let them dry for a few days prior to tubing them up and attempting a turn. I will keep all those interested posted.

James

 

[ryannmphs]

Thanks for the update James.

One thing you will want to check after the poly dries is that your tubes will still fit properly. I usually "re-drill" just to remove the build of poly on the inside of the blank and allow the glue to bond to the wood, not the poly.

Ryan

 

[loglugger]

James, I use Verathane brand. Draw a vaccum a few hours let it off slow, pull the vaccum again. do this about 3 times. The wood will sink. This is with cut and drilled blanks.
Bob

 

[Rifleman1776]

For those who have success with their home stabilization, if you don't mind sharing your secret...what is the 'poly' solution that works best? I did an internet search yesterday and found just too much information to be helpful, it was dizzying. Are the solutions used two-part or air cured, etc.?

 

[jenamison]

I don't have an answer but another question. I've seen the store bought blanks talk about resin impregnated blanks. Can this be like the clear resin poly we buy to actually cast the blanks at home???

 

[loglugger]

Frank, I use Verathane brand mixed with about 1/4 paint thinner. It works fairly well. Let it dry for about 3 weeks. It will still clog sand paper a bit, the longer it dries the better. This will make punky wood hard. I think most use Minwar fast drying Poly.
Bob

 

[Fangar]

Bob,

Thanks for the tip on thinner. Will something acetone work? Does that help to pentrate better in your experience, due to the thinner? Thanks in advance. I got my hands on an old food dehydrator today. I am going to load up the blanks, to see what happens. All trial and error I guess.

James

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by ryannmphs
<br />Thanks for the update James.

One thing you will want to check after the poly dries is that your tubes will still fit properly. I usually "re-drill" just to remove the build of poly on the inside of the blank and allow the glue to bond to the wood, not the poly.

Ryan

Thanks Ryan. The tubes still fit, but I will try to redrill them to remove excess buildup.

James

 

[ctEaglesc]

Originally posted by Fangar
<br />Bob,

Thanks for the tip on thinner. Will something acetone work? Does that help to pentrate better in your experience, due to the thinner? Thanks in advance. I got my hands on an old food dehydrator today. I am going to load up the blanks, to see what happens. All trial and error I guess.

James

I use acetone and dissolve plexiglass in it.(Tip from someone here a year ago.
I make a syrup and then dilute with acetone.
It's hard to describe the viscosity.
Lowes sell Bondo Wood Hardner.It smell like acetone and is clear.
I try to get mine about the same consistency.
You might pick up a pint the first go around about $7.00.
About the dehydraytor.
Are you tring to dry the wood or stabilize it?

 

[Rifleman1776]

Eagle asked, "Are you tring to dry the wood or stabilize it?"
Stabilizing. I have some soft blanks that just don't want to turn well and others that have open grain that will not leave a smooth finish when sanded. Don't want to do this big-time, just a little to meet my own needs. The plexiglass and acetone idea sounds good. Store bought verathane might be a place to start also. BTW, I am told that the red aromatic cedar I sell does not take stabilizing at all, so that idea is out. Pity, I have half a ton of 3/4"X4" boards stacked outside that birds love making nests in. Not good for much more right now.

 

[loglugger]

James, I have never tryed acetone, Just mineral spirits.
Bob

 

[Fangar]

Originally posted by cteaglesc

I use acetone and dissolve plexiglass in it.(Tip from someone here a year ago.
I make a syrup and then dilute with acetone.
It's hard to describe the viscosity.
Lowes sell Bondo Wood Hardner.It smell like acetone and is clear.
I try to get mine about the same consistency.
You might pick up a pint the first go around about $7.00.
About the dehydraytor.
Are you tring to dry the wood or stabilize it?

The dehydrator will be used to dry the blanks at a more rapid rate, after stablization, and also prior to for things like corn cobbs. Thaks for the ideas with the plexiglass and thinner. I will look into the bondo wood hardener and give that a shot too.

Cheers,

James

 

[Fangar]

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