Snake Wood

[Skip_Evans]

What if anything can we do to prevent snake wood from cracking after turning? I turned a cigar with snake wood and it cracked within 24 hrs.

 

[coach]

That is the $60,000 question.

 

[Skye]

Quick answer: Nobody knows for sure.

Most people think super slow drilling (like 30 second sessions, super slow movement, every 30 minutes) will help it. Some think it's the wood's minuscule growing and shrinking (due to humidity, sunlight, heat, cold) around the unforgiving brass tube that cracks it. They sometimes try using an expanding/shrinking glue and a slightly oversized drill bit. In the end, there's no 100% dependable method.

Then you also have the customer's treatment of it to worry about. In the end, it's a darn nice wood but just too unpredictable for me to be comfortable putting my name on it.

 

[dlostracco]

I turn the pen and let it sit, no finish, till it cracks. Then I go back and fill it with black flexable CA. Then I finish the pen and have never had a problem this way, and I have done this for several years now and the customers are still happy.

 

[its_virgil]

Boiler plating......

Here is a reply I made just yesterday and several other times which you may find helpful...or not.

I suppose Anthony and I should boilerplate my next comment about snakewood pens since we both have posted it several times. :biggrin: Make snakewood pens. :RockOn:Instead of worrying about if or when they will crack just turn the blanks and let them set until they crack. It may take several days or weeks. Then put them back on the lathe and repair the crack with a slurry of CA and sanding dust. The crack will be almost undetectable and in some cases not detectable. We both agree that a cracked and repaired snakewood pen is nicer than most any other wooden pen. Stop worrying...life is too short. Make those snakewood pens and enjoy them. BTW, I've not had to repair or replace any snakewood pen I've made this way. Congrats to those who have made them and not had one crack.


There have been two threads on snakewood over the weekend. Searching the archives will yield you all of the snakewood reading you would ever want to have.

You will find lots of comments about drilling at this speed or that speed and using this bit or that bit...watch out for the heat...taking hours to drill a snakewood blank...waving garlic over the bit and blank prior to drilling:biggrin: I've never had any problems with drilling snakewood. I use standard bits and drill as I do any other blank. Personally, I just don't consider heat to be as much of a culprit as is reported. I may be wrong but I've just not experienced much of what others report about drilling and heat. I've made about 40 snakewood pens.

Good luck and enjoy all of the information you find.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

What if anything can we do to prevent snake wood from cracking after turning? I turned a cigar with snake wood and it cracked within 24 hrs.

 

[spiritwoodturner]

Stop using Snakewood to make pens. That's the most reliable way to get Snakewood to stop cracking.

I'm with Skye, even if you are the one in a hundred to not have one crack, if you sell it to someone, they likely will, and then you're hosed. WAY too unreliable for me. Sometimes, you need to listen to the wood, and this one is screaming "Don't turn me!".

Dale

P.S. Not to disagree with Don, because he's forgotten more about this than I'll ever know, but there's a strong possibility you'll never know if one fails on a customer down the road. You'll just hear a great sucking sound from the building bad will. I live in a small town and sell a lot in my town, and I personally can't take the chance on a customer that's not happy that I'll never hear from. They're the worst kind.

 

[BRobbins629]

Don's got a good method, but here's another with no guarantee other than to make cracking much less likely:

1) Drill the blank as normal
2) Turn the blank proud of final dimension without glueing the tube in - just turn a cylander with the tube loose inside for support.
3) Let the cylander sit for a few days and see if the tube still fits. Snakewood will shrink. If the tube is tight take a round file and ream out the hole until the tube is loose again.
3) Repeat step 3 until the tube remains loose for several days.
4) Glue in tube with Gorilla glue or other foaming type glue.
5) Finish turning pen as normal
6) Either ream out inside of tube or sand/file fittings so that they press into tubes easily. Without doing this, they will stretch the tubes and put pressure on the wood.
7) Glue fittings into tubes so they will stay.

This procedure is not fool proof but has worked with many crack sensitive materials. The general idea is to not continually put stress on the wood and allow it to stabilize in its near final form. While I have heard of many cracked snakewood pens I have not heard of snakewood cracking as a blank. It does make a beautiful pen.

 

[its_virgil]

I tell customers who want snakewood pens that they are prone to cracking and I also tell them what I do to help with the cracking problems. i.e. let them crack and repair. I also tell them if the pen ever cracks again I will repair it for free if they will send it to me. So, there should be no complaining.

I received an email from a fellow in California who had 3 snakewood jr statesman pens that cracked. He contacted the pen's maker in Kentucky and was told that snakewood always cracked and there was nothing he could do about it nor could the pens be repaired. To make a long story short, I told him to send the pens to me and I would repair the cracks. I repaired the cracks and charged him only postage back to California. He has since purchased 4 more snakewood pens from me and so have several of his friends and business partners.

And, it's fine to disagree with me. Sometimes I am totally off base...and may be on this topic also.

Gotta love those snakewood pens.

Do a good turn daily1
Don

P.S. Not to disagree with Don, because he's forgotten more about this than I'll ever know, but there's a strong possibility you'll never know if one fails on a customer down the road. You'll just hear a great sucking sound from the building bad will. I live in a small town and sell a lot in my town, and I personally can't take the chance on a customer that's not happy that I'll never hear from. They're the worst kind.

 

[TellicoTurning]

and not had one crack.
[/COLOR]

You will find lots of comments about drilling at this speed or that speed and using this bit or that bit...watch out for the heat...taking hours to drill a snakewood blank...waving garlic over the bit and blank prior to drilling:biggrin: I've never had any problems with drilling snakewood. I use standard bits and drill as I do any other blank. Personally, I just don't consider heat to be as much of a culprit as is reported. I may be wrong but I've just not experienced much of what others report about drilling and heat. I've made about 40 snakewood pens.

Don

I've not turned near the number of pens Don has, and as was said earlier, he's probably forgotten more about pen turning than I'll ever know, but I do the same as him.. I handle the Snakewood blanks same as any other. To date, I have had only about two or three crack and like Don, I fixed the cracks and returned the pens to the owners. The last one to crack was given to my step-son, a truck driver that keeps the pen in his truck.. the sleeper portion.. and he had it for about 6 months before it finally cracked.

I can't confirm my theory, but I know from high-school physics (about 45 years ago) that different materials will expand at different rates and I'm thinking that the brass tubes may expand quicker than the wood does when a pen gets warm. I had some pens in a glass topped case at a local show and with the top closed, the sun shining into the case caused the pens to get quite warm... I had three pens crack that afternoon... one was antler, one was african blackwood and I forget the third...

 

[spiritwoodturner]

You know, Don, you personally got me through the "Low Down, Nasty CA Blues", so I'm going to try your technique to get me through the "G*^ D#@! Expensive Crackin' Snakewood Pen Blank Blues"! That's a very good idea, to let your customers know their little grenades may just go off in their laps, but you'll be there to perform medical duty.

Now, do us a favor and let us know ahead of time when you're off base, because I sure as heck haven't caught you yet! You've helped me out so much already and I really do appreciate it.

Regards,
Dale

 

[GouletPens]

I've never worked with snakewood, but are you guys talking about natural or stabilized snakewood. Does stabilized make a difference for this finicky wood? I know it makes a huge difference for burls...any insight from the pros?

 

[spiritwoodturner]

Brian, I think it's too hard for stabilizing, and have never seen it stabilized. I think if someone could figure out a way to stabilize this stuff, they could make a bundle, because it is gorgeous.

If you find it stabilized, please let us know! Problem solved, with no headache.

Dale

 

[its_virgil]

Thanks so much Dale for those kind words. Making pens is fun and helping others to make pens is also fun.

I also do as Bruce suggested. Drill and let the blank sit and when it shrinks a little I ream out the hole and let it sit until the hole shrinks. Continue until the shrinking stops or slows to a crawl. Then I glue in the tube and turn to almost finished and wait for the crack.

Thanks Bruce for adding that important info.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

You know, Don, you personally got me through the "Low Down, Nasty CA Blues", so I'm going to try your technique to get me through the "G*^ D#@! Expensive Crackin' Snakewood Pen Blank Blues"! That's a very good idea, to let your customers know their little grenades may just go off in their laps, but you'll be there to perform medical duty.

Now, do us a favor and let us know ahead of time when you're off base, because I sure as heck haven't caught you yet! You've helped me out so much already and I really do appreciate it.

Regards,
Dale

 

[wdcav1952]

I've never worked with snakewood, but are you guys talking about natural or stabilized snakewood. Does stabilized make a difference for this finicky wood? I know it makes a huge difference for burls...any insight from the pros?

Brian, Rich K. (scubaman) wrote on this subject a few years ago. I don't remember if it was on this site or not. Like Don, Rich is a great source for knowledge. IIRC, he had several methods of stabilizing tried, and none of them worked at all for snakewood.

 

[GouletPens]

Sounds like this is some seriously dense wood if it can't even be stabilized. Do you think since its so dense it might be a moisture issue and that's why its cracking? Maybe the moisture isn't able to get out of the wood until its turned thin like after the pen is turned (hence why it cracks). Has anyone tried drilling then microwaving? I use this technique for dense woods that I need dry sooner than nature intended and it works well for finicky woods like bloodwood and bow. Like I said before, I've never worked with snakewood, but I may just have to since you guys are all making it sound like so much of a challenge:wink:

 

[Skye]

Has anyone tried drilling then microwaving?

I think that is pretty much the same as posted before:

Don's got a good method, but here's another with no guarantee other than to make cracking much less likely:

1) Drill the blank as normal
2) Turn the blank proud of final dimension without glueing the tube in - just turn a cylander with the tube loose inside for support.
3) Let the cylander sit for a few days and see if the tube still fits. Snakewood will shrink. If the tube is tight take a round file and ream out the hole until the tube is loose again.
3) Repeat step 3 until the tube remains loose for several days.

It just takes a few more days for the pen to dry rather than nuking it in the microwave.