simple stabilization technique

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btboone

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Check out a stabilization technique I found on another forum. It simply injects polyester into wood using a plastic bag, vacuum pump, and a tube. It looks very easy to do and looks safer than glass jars. I wonder if it just might be an answer for stuff like snakewood, where cracking is always an issue. It's so simple a technique, it should be worth trying.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=427501
 
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ctEaglesc

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take a look at the thickness of the piece of wood he has on the drill press. It appears to be a lot <b>thinner</b> than a 3/4 pen blank.
What happens if the resin sets before the blank is impregnated?

(edit in thinner for not enough coffee)
 

Skye

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You mean thinner?

Bruce, send that guy a watch band... please! That thing looks like it's about to blow apart.
 

btboone

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He's doing knife handle material. They are normally around 3/4" thick x around 1 1/4" wide to be cut in half. This one seems thinner and wider than that. If it can penetrate the outside edges of a block like that, it seems that a pen blank should only be easier. If it sets early, it probably just won't get way down into the center unless there was a big crack in there anyway, so doesn't seem to be a problem either way. Next time, I guess you would just use a little less catalyst to keep it watery longer. I have an air conditioner compressor that works as a vacuum pump and polyester resin, so I might have to try this one.
 

alamocdc

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I'm thinking maybe only a few drops of catalyst should keep it from setting too fast. I may have to try this as well, Bruce, thanks for the post! And I have plenty of small baggies... Gee, I wonder where I got them. [;)] If you have a Press n' Seal you can even make your own custom bags.
 

ctEaglesc

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Originally posted by btboone
<br />He's doing knife handle material. They are normally around 3/4" thick x around 1 1/4" wide to be cut in half. This one seems thinner and wider than that. If it can penetrate the outside edges of a block like that, it seems that a pen blank should only be easier. If it sets early, it probably just won't get way down into the center unless there was a big crack in there anyway, so doesn't seem to be a problem either way. Next time, I guess you would just use a little less catalyst to keep it watery longer. I have an air conditioner compressor that works as a vacuum pump and polyester resin, so I might have to try this one.

Consider the thickness of the "wall" of a pen blank after it is turned.
It is the center that is most imortant.
The outside is easier stabilized (hardened with CA as you go).
Don't take this the wrong way but I don't know how much turning you do by hand as opposed to using your CNC lathe.
Ther is a "feel" that is transfered to the tool that you cannot get from a machine, computerized or not.
When I go to gun shows the blanks for knifew scales that are on display are always 1/2 to 3/8ths inches thck.
I have looked at stabilized knife scales for sale and have never seen one larger than 1/2 inch thick.
That is not to say they don't exist but they certainly are not plentiful on the web.
I don't mean this to be derrogatory in any way.
 

JasonF

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What if you drilled the blank first and then did this process. Do you think there would be penetration from the outside and inside, or would it need to only be drilled a little way in and threaded?
 

Kaspar

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Ahead of the curve. Waaay ahead.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking with the hide glue process I want to "invent". Drill the hole, round the outside, and attempt stabilization from inside and out.

However, the way in this tutorial has the advantage of pulling the stuff through the wood from the inside. When you get the stabilizing material in that hose, you KNOW it had to come through the blank to get there. I like this idea a lot. I still think one should put the wood to be stabilized into a vacuum to suck all the air from it first. The depressurization will open up holes in cells that might otherwise remain impermeable.
 

JimGo

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If you put the stabilizing medium in the middle of the blank, without sealing it, and draw a vacuum, the stabilizing medium will just run up into the vacuum tube, especially with the way he does it.

One of the problems with unstabilized wood, at least in my limited experience and with respect to wood that actually NEEDS to be stabilized, is that it is very soft, even when drilling. I'd prefer that it be stabilized before the drilling process, if possible. However, if that isn't possible, you could cut and pre-drill the blanks, then put them in a baggie and try to suck the air out of the baggie. Of course, you're still going to draw some of the stabilizing medium out of the bag (or at least, if you're as clumsy as me you will), but you could put a trap in the line to help protect your pump. Any way, that would give you some penetration from both sides, and most especially from the inside near the tube. However, unlike when we fill these voids with a sanding slurry and CA or the like, the voids here will be filled with the (presumably) clear stabilizing medium, which means that you COULD have a crack/void/etc. that shows through to the brass tube once the piece is turned, and which you can't go back and fill it later. So, there are pro's and con's to it, from my perspective.
 

ctEaglesc

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"However, unlike when we fill these voids with a sanding slurry and CA or the like, the voids here will be filled with the (presumably) clear stabilizing medium, which means that you COULD have a crack/void/etc. that shows through to the brass tube once the piece is turned, and which you can't go back and fill it later."



Color the tube.
 

btboone

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The post really didn't get into how deep the threaded hole was. I assume it's not that deep. For pens, we could do a smaller hole that goes maybe halfway down the blank. A fitting could probably be turned from brass or aluminum if there aren't any that would normally work. Actually, a piece of 1/4" brass or copper tubing might work as is.

Eagle, I get my Acrylester blanks from Texas Knife Supply because they are around 1" x 1 1/2", which is one of the few places that sell stock big enough for my rings. Sometimes they are around 3/4" thick, but that's the minimum those seem to be. Maybe they get a bit tighter on tolerances on exotic woods, but they need to allow for a saw kerf if there are to be two parts cut from them. I would think that some knives like kitchen knives have around 3/8" thick per side handles. It does look though like the parts on the finished blanks that are a full inch from centeline are still pulling in resin.

Anyway, I think the technique is simple and cheap enough to try. Worst case you waste a few pine blanks or something perfecting the technique. It has the potential to be a lot simpler and safer than other techniques people are trying.
 

gerryr

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I think with this technique, you better definitely put that baggy in another container in case it breaks. Unless of course you want to coat your floor with PR.[:D]
 

Dario

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Seems like you won't actually stress the bag much. All the PR will most likely be all in the wood already...or sucked in the vacuum if you used too much before you do [;)]
 
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Mudder

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This technique has been in use for a long time and I tried it about a year ago.

I could not get it to impregnate deep enough into the wood to do me any good. Perhaps if the blank was turned close to size and then impregnated before turning to the final size? For me, it just seemed like way too much trouble and since I get good results from the acetone & plexi mix I stopped experimenting with the bag. Given the way that the cell structure is in wood I would think that you would need to have vacuum on the entire top of the blank (presuming the grain is running vertical in the blank).
 

ctEaglesc

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Thanks for your report Mudder,I thought of some of those same things.
To me a knife handle would need to be the hardest on the outside and they wouldn't be that concerned with the core.
Don't they surround the core with epoxy?
 

cozee

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I haven't used wood yet but I've tried it for doing corncobs and it works great. With wood I think I will start with a slower setting resin so as to be able to pull a vacuum longer for better penetration. I like the idea of simply mixing the resin as opposed to cutting up plexiglass and going through the melting process. Seems the resin group buy for the 2007 Mid West gathering may require two 55 gallon drums!!!
 
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