Sierra Vista Green Abalone Kit-Need Some Help

[Randy_]

I am working on my first Sierra Vista Green Abalone Kit (first resin blank, also) and would appreciate some advice or opinions.

First question has to do with the abalone blank. I notice two absolutely straight lines in the abalone chip pattern oriented at exactly 180° from each other and along the axis of the blank. This makes me think the abalone comes in narrow flexible strips that are then glued to the tube covering one half of the circumference at a time.

Well, problem is the following. When I look at either of the straight lines so that I can see part of each "half" of the blank. One side of the line looks shiny and reflective and shows the abalone color and the other looks dull and non-reflective. When I rotate the blank, top for bottom, the side that was shiny is now dull and the side that was dull is now shiny. It is like the abalone has one orientation that is shiny and one that is dull (non-shiny) and when the tube was covered, the manufacturer got the orientation reversed on one of the two strips of abalone?

I did not notice this until I got the blank turned round and polished up to 12,000 MM. Can't say whether this was observable in the original blank if I had looked at is more closely? (Note: I turned the blank until it was just round and polished it with sandpaper and MM to see how it would look. It is not at final diameter yet.)

Has anyone else noticed this effect and is it normal for these blanks or did I get a bad one?

Speaking of turning blanks, I had a little trouble turning my first resin blank and would like a little input. I started off at top speed on my little JET (about 4000 RPMs) with a freshly sharpened skew. Had some trouble and moved down two notches to about 1800 RPMs. That helped; but did not completely eliminate the problem, which is that every so often, a little chunk of resin would pop out of the blank rather than getting nice smooth shavings. I switched over to a gouge; but that did not seem to help. The problem seemed to clear up pretty much when the corners of the blank were knocked off and the blank almost round.

Luckily, none of the chunks were large enough to get deeper than the final required diameter of the barrel and all were repairable; but I think that was just luck and I could have easily ruined the blank.

So, what am I missing? How do I get those corners off the blank without ruining it? Less speed, different tool, band saw, change the skew angle or just more practice?

Finally, there is a flaw in the blank. It is not a bubble; but, rather, looks like a small, fine crack. It is only visible when you look at it from a certain direction and then it looks like a small black or dark gray flake about 1/2mm x 3mm. From another direction, it has a shiny reflective spot on it and from other directions, it is just about invisible. (Remember, the blank is only turned just round and polished. Right now it is about 11/16" in diameter; but the final diameter will be about 0.52" so I "think" there is enough excess to allow me to turn off the defect.....fingers crossed.)

Now that I think about it, it sort of looks like a chip in a piece of glass that hasn't popped out of the parent material yet. Maybe it is one of those chips I created earlier that didn't fully break out and that I didn't fully repair. Anyone ever see anything like that?

And my final concern is squaring the blank. Probably should have done it before turning it round; but I didn't anticipate the chipping problem. Now, I am worried that when I square the blank I will get some chipping on the ends and ruin the blank. I have a standard 4 flute barrel trimmer which I keep nice and sharp; but am worried about a chip on the end of the tube which would be a killer!! Any thoughts??

Your thoughts and advice will be greatly appreciated.:bananen_smilies046:

 

[ldb2000]

The best advice I can give you is to take very light cuts with the skew , this will help you with your chip out and be very careful as you get down to the final diameter as the plastic will be extremely thin over the shell on the ends of the blank and one slip will tear the PR or worse the shell off the tube .
As for the pattern ,this is normal . The shell comes in a veneer that gets formed and glued to the tube and what you are seeing is the separate sheets of veneer .
With the squaring of the blank make sure you use a correct trimmer shaft for the tube or make a spacer for use with the 7mm shaft and when you trim the ends take very light cuts and you should be ok .
I have made several of these blanks on a Tapa Pacfica which left no room for error with no real problems and made some beautiful pens . The white Mother of Pearl blanks look nicer then the abalone (to me) but they both come out nice and sell well .

oh and I turn these blanks down at max speed on my Jet mini , in fact I turn all acrlyic at max speed with a very sharp skew and have no problems . If you hear the "breaking glass" sound you are pushing too hard and slowing down the lathe will only make this worse , again light cuts will make a world of difference .

 

[leehljp]

Before I bought one of Lee's sander mills, I turned the barrel trimmer around and added some 80 grit PSA sandpaper to it and sanded down very sensitive blanks. No use taking a chance. It took an extra few minutes but it was worth it knowing that I didn't have to go through that "Is it going to work, is it going to catch - almost finished . . " phase. (Someone posted a picture of this method recently on this forum.)

IF a blank is worth taking extra time over to get it right, why take the chance on chipping the ends when 2 or 3 minutes longer preparation is goooood prevention.

An ounce of prevention is worth . . .

 

[beck3906]

My suggestion when turning blanks of this nature is to use a bandsaw or a belt/disc sander to cut off the corners to make the blank somewhat round. The constant bumping of the hard edge causes the chipping you saw, so anything you can do to minimize that will help prevent a potential loss. I've had a couple of situations early on where I didn't do that and lost an expensive blank.

 

[snowman56]

Randy
The fastest way to round the blank is 60 grit sandpaper. I have done 50 pens out the tropical blanks. Luck and time is all you need , 1800 rpm is fine shap skew and light cut's.I used the mill to square up before turning. A ca finish really heip's to keep the blank's from grtting dull. Good luck

 

[randyrls]

First question has to do with the abalone blank. I notice two absolutely straight lines in the abalone chip pattern oriented at exactly 180° from each other and along the axis of the blank. This makes me think the abalone comes in narrow flexible strips that are then glued to the tube covering one half of the circumference at a time.

Randy; Yes the genuine article doesn't flex and is rather small. I believe they break the material around the tube.

Well, problem is the following. When I look at either of the straight lines so that I can see part of each "half" of the blank. One side of the line looks shiny and reflective and shows the abalone color and the other looks dull and non-reflective. Has anyone else noticed this effect and is it normal for these blanks or did I get a bad one?

Abalone does have an orientation. So it doesn't look the same from different directions. When joining the two edges together the refraction/reflection may not be the same.... :frown:

So, what am I missing? How do I get those corners off the blank without ruining it? Less speed, different tool, band saw, change the skew angle or just more practice?

I always SAND off the corners of all acrylics. I mount the blanks on the mandrel and use a bench top belt sander, but have used a drum sander in the past. The TAK.TAK..TAK..TAK.. drives me crazy; and it isn't good for the edge of your skew.

Finally, there is a flaw in the blank. It is not a bubble; but, rather, looks like a small, fine crack.

I believe it is a crack. It is easy to crack or break acrylics. Applying the tool to sharp corners causes an impact to the blank, and any small stress point can develop into a crack. I have cracked and broken several hard Tru-stone blanks recently. :frown:


I have made several Abalone Barons.... I made one, BIG MISTAKE follows:
I showed it to someone, had to make 4 more.....

Hope this helps....

 

[Randy_]

The best advice I can give you is to take very light cuts with the skew.......The white Mother of Pearl blanks look nicer then the abalone (to me) but they both come out nice and sell well.....

Thanks, Butch. If I were taking any lighter cuts, it would be the end of the year before I got the blank round.:biggrin: As it was, it probably took me a half hour to get the blank from square to round. The waste coming off the blank was more like dust than an actual shaving. Don't think I could take a lighter cut. I think I need to knock the corners off with a sander or a band saw as suggested by others. Do you do that or do you just turn your blanks from square to round??

I agree entirely with your comment about color. If it were my choice, I would have selected the MOP; but the pen is for my sister and she wanted a green or teal color, so...........:wink:

 

[ldb2000]

I turn the blanks from square , but taking the edges off will help to speed the process . The chipping of the blank is not from it being square but from pushing too hard , if you ride the bevel of your skew then just tilt it into the cut (shearing cut) you can get a good fast cut with minimal chip out . Once the blank is round the chip out will be much easier to control with a light shearing cut .
A scary sharp skew and getting the proper shearing cut is the most important part of turning any acrylic . If your getting dust I would say you aren't getting a good shearing cut or your skew is not sharp enough , I get little pieces of , for lack of a better word , ribbons until I get the blank round and then it's full ribbons that stream off the skew and fly all over the place .
I use the same technique on these blanks as well as on all tru-stone and other acrylics . I cast most of my own acrylic (PR , I'm working on my 4th gallon) blanks and I use between 10 to 20 drops of MEKP per oz of resin which makes a very brittle blank and have only had about a half dozen blown up blanks using this technique (and they were when I was just starting out with acrylics) and I have never spent more the 20 minutes turning a blank to final size .
Also one of Lee's Sanding mills would be a great investment for blanks like these . Most of the time I just chuck the blank up and use the skew to trim the ends square after I get it round , I can't remember the last time I used a pen mill .
One last thing , I turn all my blanks round between centers so if I do get a catch the blank just spins instead of blowing up .
Hope this helps and feel free to ask if something don't make sense or you need more help .

 

[Randy_]

I got very nice ribbons when the blank went round so I 'm sure the the skew is plenty sharp and my technique is not too bad. Maybe I just need a little more practice controlling my angle when taking off the corners? Probably need to buy a few cheap blanks and just practice a little more on the PR.

I made my own little sanding mill; but don't use it a lot; because I haven't quite figured out how to make consistently sized holes in the sandpaper to fit the different sized pilots that came with my barrel trimmer. I guess I should just "bite the bullet" and make sleeves for all of the kits I make and use only the 7mm pilot.

Maybe I will just chuck up the blank in my Beall collet chuck and square the blank with the skew like you suggested...... always more than one way to skin a cat!!:biggrin:

Turning the blanks round between centers sounds like a good idea. Think I will try that and see how that works.

Thanks.

 

[ldb2000]

If you are going to round down tubed blanks make sure you use the bushings or you stand a chance of messing up the ends of the blanks , even if they are not square you will be able to round the blank then when you have squared the ends you can fix any out of round conditions you might have caused by using the bushings on the unsquared ends .
I would also turn these blanks between centers to avoid any catches and chipping of the ends . This applies to snake skin blanks too . These blanks are too expensive to ruin because of a catch .

 

[Randy_]

.....These blanks are too expensive to ruin because of a catch .

I assume you are talking about RS blanks. I was of a mind that the abalone blanks were pretty expensive too; but that turns out not to be the case. If you look at the price of the kit with either the abalone or the MOP blank and the price of the kit without ther blank, they are only $2 different!!

I was just on Bill's web site and both the abalone and the MOP kits are sold out!! Guess that says something!!

 

[ldb2000]

He has them on clearance , they were $25 when I last bought them . I think they are being closed out . Yes they are cheaper then the snake blanks but at the price I paid they were still about $15 if you broke down the kit pricing . I bought them for the blanks because I was putting them on the Honu (turtle) Pacificas , got good money for them too so it was worth the price .
I would stick with turning them for the Vistas because there is still some resin left on the ends when you are done , the Pacificas had only a couple of thousandths left when I was done . That was very nerve wracking when I got down to the final passes , I kept waiting for them to blow up .

 

[Randy_]

Ahh, that explains it. I was sort of surprised at the price. I thought I had paid more for mine; but couldn't remember for sure since it has been quite a while since I bought my kit.


To bad Bill is discontinuing those kits. I thought they were very good looking. Do you know of anyone else who is selling either abalone or MOP blanks or kits??

 

[Randy_]

......I turned the barrel trimmer around and added some 80 grit PSA sandpaper to it and sanded down very sensitive blanks.....

Lee, thanks. I've done that, too; but getting the correct size hole in the sandpaper was always a problem with the different sized pilots. How did you make the holes in your sandpaper??

 

[ldb2000]

Berrea makes the kits so they might still carry them . Use a paper hole punch to make the 7mm holes , the barrel trimmer cutter head is drilled for the 7mm part of all the different shafts , so shaft size don't matter .

 

[Randy_]

Thanks, Butch. Backed myself into a box. Just assumed if Bill was discontinuing them, that they were gone. But it turns out that they are still available on the Berea web site. I'm going to pick up a couple and use the blanks with the Sierra push button kits which I prefer to the Sierra twist kit.

 

[wolftat]

The first time I turned one of the MOP kits I blew out the side of one blank. I put it aside and a couple of months later I tried recasting it in Alumilite and it worked out fine. The pen was finished and it all went well. They are fixable if they break.

 

[Randy_]

My suggestion when turning blanks of this nature is to use a bandsaw or a belt/disc sander to cut off the corners to make the blank somewhat round. The constant bumping of the hard edge causes the chipping you saw, so anything you can do to minimize that will help prevent a potential loss. I've had a couple of situations early on where I didn't do that and lost an expensive blank.

Thanks, Rick.

I don't have a belt sander; but I guess I could make up a little jig and cut the corners off using my little 10" bandsaw next time I do one of these resin blanks.

 

[Randy_]

Randy
The fastest way to round the blank is 60 grit sandpaper.....

I'll try that, first. Certainly the easiest solution!!

 

[randyrls]

I made my own little sanding mill; but don't use it a lot; because I haven't quite figured out how to make consistently sized holes in the sandpaper to fit the different sized pilots that came with my barrel trimmer. I guess I should just "bite the bullet" and make sleeves for all of the kits I make and use only the 7mm pilot.

Randy; I make sleeves for all the pens I make. Only takes a few minutes and works like a charm. For the sandpaper, I have a paper punch like a pair of pliers from my paperboy days. It exactly fits a 7mm pilot. Reminds me, I have to get some more PSA....

 

[Daniel]

A question here. Are these blanks made from "Real" Abalone? And if so do you realize that Abalone shell "Mother of pearl" Is extremely dangerous to work with? It is toxic. Just wanted to make sure no one has ventured into dangerous territory unknowingly.

 

[Randy_]

A question here. Are these blanks made from "Real" Abalone? And if so do you realize that Abalone shell "Mother of pearl" Is extremely dangerous to work with? It is toxic. Just wanted to make sure no one has ventured into dangerous territory unknowingly.

I did not know that the stuff was toxic. More details would be nice.

The blanks we are talking about here have the shell pieces glued to the tube and then are cast in resin so the pencrafter is never actually cutting into the shell material unless there is an accident. If the shell material is toxic, there might be some risk to the actual maker of the blank.

 

[Randy_]

.....Abalone does have an orientation. So it doesn't look the same from different directions. When joining the two edges together the refraction/reflection may not be the same.... :frown:

Thanks. I don't know how others feel; but for me the difference in "look" from one side of the line to the other is a major blemish in an otherwise wonderful kit. If fact, I may not make any more of them unless I get a specific request.

 

[Randy_]

Randy; I make sleeves for all the pens I make. Only takes a few minutes and works like a charm. For the sandpaper, I have a paper punch like a pair of pliers from my paperboy days. It exactly fits a 7mm pilot. Reminds me, I have to get some more PSA....

Randy: You are exactly correct. I've just been a little lazy. I have a whole package of the 7mm tubes from PSI.

I bought a paper punch today......set me back all of 99¢ !!!

 

[Randy_]

When in doubt, read the instructions, dummy.......so I did!!

I actually bought this kit quite a while ago and forgot that there was a special sheet with instructions for turning the acrylic blank. (Found it when I was reviewing the general instructions for info to update to my pen chart.)

For any who may be interested, here are some of the more important points:

• Sharp tools and light cuts.
• Knock off the corners of the blank with a belt sander.
• Use a sander to trim the ends and square the blank.
• Chamfer inside of tube.
• Leave blank 0.005" - 0.007" proud of bushing or you may get into the "exotic" cast material. Snakeskin was mentioned; but this may apply to the abalone as well.
• If the finished blank is larger than the hardware, round off the sharp edge so as to blend into the metal parts.
• There was a note from one of Bill's customers who suggested using a medium grade bastard file to take the blank down to final dia. because he had trouble keeping the blanks from breaking. Sort of sounds like an 80 grit gouge to me. (To be honest, I am getting a little paranoid about messing up this blank and may take that option, myself!!) :redface:

 

[Daniel]

Randy, Sorry didn't mean to ignore your question on it being toxic. I would rather not try to give details because they are likely to be inaccurate. But Google Mother of Pearl and look for health risk type articles. I will tell you it is the dust being breathed that is the problem. as long a you don't cut into the mother of pearl you will be fine but if you do get into the MOP keep everything wet so it cannot get airborn. I have ground guitar picks from MOP on a wet grinder with no problem. I also wore a respirator. clean up well as you do not want to get exposed to transient dust later either. I do trust my memory of how to work it safely.