Sierra keeps coming apart

[PTownSubbie]

My wife carries a Sierra with a lazercut blank for her daily writer. Well, she used to carry it. She stopped because the thing keeps coming apart in her purse and is in pieces when she tries to use it.

It is coming apart at the lower section. Essentially the refill cover that is friction fit into the top of the pen may not be tight enough. The pen when she finds it is in two pieces: the lower nib section with the refill still enclosed and the top section with the lasercut blank still attached.

Does anyone else have this problem with Sierras or am I doing something wrong or is it just a loose kit?

 

[hebertjo]

I have not run into that problem. I usually put some locktite on the metal to metal connections that do not need to come apart. Epoxy can work as well but use it sparingly.

 

[nava1uni]

It sounds as if the top has worn inside and is not catching the transmission and staying closed. I would take a flashlight and look inside to see if there is something prohibiting the transmission from catching and holding inside the cap. You could also dismantle the cap and see if there is damage inside the cap. You could also try another transmission and see if it holds. Maybe that transmission is bad and the threads or nubs on the top of the transmission are worn.

 

[bitshird]

Fred, is this a real Sierra, or a Sierra clone??

 

[PTownSubbie]

Fred, is this a real Sierra, or a Sierra clone??

It is a Sierra from Rockler if I am not mistaken....

I tried to determine how to fix it today. I took the top out and the blank off. I think reinstalled the top so that I could see what was going on. When the top is fully installed until it bottoms out, it is very tight. I then put the blank up to the fully constructed pen. The blank was longer than the opening of the pen. This means that the blank is not allowing the top of the pen to seat fully inside the top.

Is it supposed to bottom out in the top or not? Anyone ever checked on this?

 

[jttheclockman]

fred

You lost me. Is this an elegant beuty sierra with the turning mechanism in the cap or is this one where there is a transmission that screws into the lower nib section which is where you place the refill??? You may have the wrong length tube. There is a difference. Which one is which I would have to remeasure to be sure. But a little more info is needed.

 

[steeler fan1]

Fred,

I have a Serria that I think has the same problem. Mine is the one that turns at the lower section(nib). This pen has never been used. I've turned the mechanism a few times but the pen is in a stand on my dresser. Recently when I was showing it to someone it came apart. The nib and refill in one hand and the upper section in the other hand. The transmisson is in the upper section and I haven't been able to get it out. Plan to take it to the shop this afternoon and see if I can get it apart.

I beleive I also got this kit from Rockler.

If I have any luck I'll update what I find.

Carl

 

[maxwell_smart007]

My wife has had three sierras fall apart in her purse, and I've had a few returned to me as well...they're the true Sierra, and I've given up on the kit...

I've tried all the suggestions, and maybe the elegant beauty is better, but I will not use or sell this kit anymore. I have a few Sierra pens that I refuse to sell because of it.

 

[PTownSubbie]

fred

You lost me. Is this an elegant beuty sierra with the turning mechanism in the cap or is this one where there is a transmission that screws into the lower nib section which is where you place the refill??? You may have the wrong length tube. There is a difference. Which one is which I would have to remeasure to be sure. But a little more info is needed.

Sorry John. This is a Rockler kit that is labeled as a Sierra. The transmission is threaded into the lower nib section. The upper part of the transmission is pressed into the finial and is used as a friction fit to turn the transmission.

This is the link to the Rockler site: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16388&filter=sierra

Does that make more sense?

 

[PTownSubbie]

My wife has had three sierras fall apart in her purse, and I've had a few returned to me as well...they're the true Sierra, and I've given up on the kit...

I've tried all the suggestions, and maybe the elegant beauty is better, but I will not use or sell this kit anymore. I have a few Sierra pens that I refuse to sell because of it.

I am beginning to feel the same....almost.

I have several of these but I would like to make them work if I can......

 

[jttheclockman]

fred

You lost me. Is this an elegant beuty sierra with the turning mechanism in the cap or is this one where there is a transmission that screws into the lower nib section which is where you place the refill??? You may have the wrong length tube. There is a difference. Which one is which I would have to remeasure to be sure. But a little more info is needed.

Sorry John. This is a Rockler kit that is labeled as a Sierra. The transmission is threaded into the lower nib section. The upper part of the transmission is pressed into the finial and is used as a friction fit to turn the transmission.

This is the link to the Rockler site: http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=16388&filter=sierra

Does that make more sense?

Now I know what you are talking about. Those kits the tube length is not a concern if it is longer. Shorter would just mean there is a gap beteen the center ring. That is obvious. 2 things may have happened but not sure if you tried changing the transmission or not. The indents on the tranny may be too flat. The inside diameter of the tube maybe too large. Could have been a bad run of tubes.

Ways to fix this. you may try placing a coating of CA glue in the upper portion of the tube. Just enough to increase the wall thickness. Let this dry and cure. Not sure if won't react with CA with the fumes or not but if you keep it away from the outside blank should not be a problem. You could also try a silicone and again a small portion.

Other try would be to make larger dimples on the tranny or or maybe even soldering or gluing something on the tranny to increase its grabbing power. Just thoughts.

 

[PTownSubbie]

Now I know what you are talking about. Those kits the tube length is not a concern if it is longer. Shorter would just mean there is a gap beteen the center ring. That is obvious. 2 things may have happened but not sure if you tried changing the transmission or not. The indents on the tranny may be too flat. The inside diameter of the tube maybe too large. Could have been a bad run of tubes.

Ways to fix this. you may try placing a coating of CA glue in the upper portion of the tube. Just enough to increase the wall thickness. Let this dry and cure. Not sure if won't react with CA with the fumes or not but if you keep it away from the outside blank should not be a problem. You could also try a silicone and again a small portion.

Other try would be to make larger dimples on the tranny or or maybe even soldering or gluing something on the tranny to increase its grabbing power. Just thoughts.

The first fix you talked about I don't think will work unless I miss understood where you want the CA buildup to be. The tube presses into the upper nib portion and is tight. The part that needs buildup would be the inner portion of the finial cap. I am not sure if I want to do that like you mentioned due to the VA fumes and plating that can react.

I may as others have illuded to, put a little loctite on the upper portion of the tranny so that when it presses in, the loctite will hold it.

Anyone see problems with this?

 

[ed4copies]

I know I will catch heck about advertising from some, but here is a simple FACT: The sierra was originated by Berea.

The name is now used for many kits made to look like the Berea original, but not made by Berea.

Please don't blame Ed Brown or Jeff Brown for every crime committed by someone named Brown. Equally, don't condemn every pen named "sierra" because one "knock-off version" or another does not work right.

Thank you.

 

[J.L.DAVIS]

I have had similar problems with this style of pen (not any called Sierra but that style), no matter how much I tighten parts they still come loose if your not careful with them. Especially with people who don't know where they twist so they are a little more forceful in their tries

 

[TBCbushings]

I haven't made the Sierra bit have made the Wall Street II and I believe it's the same kit. I have not had any problems as of yet....
Brian

 

[ed4copies]

I haven't made the Sierra bit have made the Wall Street II and I believe it's the same kit. I have not had any problems as of yet....
Brian

Thanks Brian, the WoodCraft Wall Street II is made by Berea. As are MOST WoodCraft kits.

I don't BELIEVE (am not positive) that Rockler buys anything from Berea.

 

[IPD_Mrs]

I know I will catch heck about advertising from some, but here is a simple FACT: The sierra was originated by Berea.

The name is now used for many kits made to look like the Berea original, but not made by Berea.

Please don't blame Ed Brown or Jeff Brown for every crime committed by someone named Brown. Equally, don't condemn every pen named "sierra" because one "knock-off version" or another does not work right.

Thank you.

I think Ed makes a good point here (while he isn't advertising) he is stating a plain and simple fact. We use Sierra's a good deal and don't have any intentions of not doing so. These are good, sought after pens that many people enjoy writing with. They have a nice size and weight to them and since they are only one tube can be made from some materials that might otherwise not be used. To date we haven't had any problems with these, however we just recently bought one of the (as Ed so politely calls them) knock off versions because of the different "look" so can't attest to the quality of that "brand" of the "Sierra". Each variety of a kit regardless of which particular kit it is, generally gets some small change when one company recreates it for its own use (I believe). Sometimes those changes aren't always for the best, so trial and error will at times be the only way we can determine whether or not to move away from an original to a "newer model".

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I'm quite sure the canadian supplier is a berea distributor - at least that was my assumption when I bought the kits a long while back...perhaps that was a mistaken assumption...

 

[Smitty37]

Problem

I don't think the discussion about who made the kit is contributing anything to resolving the problem....but then maybe one of you can explain to me what it is contributing?

Try wrapping a little piece of scotch tape aroung the tranny and see if that fixes the problem if it does then you can try something in the finial as a perminant fix. I have done that with a different style pen and it works.

 

[maxwell_smart007]

I don't think the discussion about who made the kit is contributing anything to resolving the problem....but then maybe one of you can explain to me what it is contributing?

Try wrapping a little piece of scotch tape aroung the tranny and see if that fixes the problem if it does then you can try something in the finial.

Sure can, Smitty - if one manufacturer is the problem, you can avoid buying kits made by that manufacturer.

But in this case, my troubles came from kits that are true Bereas (the company just confirmed this for me)...

 

[PTownSubbie]

I don't think the discussion about who made the kit is contributing anything to resolving the problem....but then maybe one of you can explain to me what it is contributing?

Try wrapping a little piece of scotch tape aroung the tranny and see if that fixes the problem if it does then you can try something in the finial as a perminant fix. I have done that with a different style pen and it works.

Thanks Smitty! If the loctite lets go, I will give that a try.

 

[its_virgil]

We should not have to spend time adding, gluing, soldering, welding, taping, dimpling, or using any other technique to make a particular pen kit perform as it is (poorly sometimes) designed to perform. There are too many other excellent kits that perform as designed to stress over a kit that is not up to par. I have sold and/or given away several hundred sierras (Berea's original) and don't remember the last time I've had a problem with the (original Berea) sierra. Maybe I've been lucky. I can't say the same for other "sierra" clones as Ed has so correctly called them, especially the ones from China.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[Smitty37]

Generic

We should not have to spend time adding, gluing, soldering, welding, taping, dimpling, or using any other technique to make a particular pen kit perform as it is (poorly sometimes) designed to perform. There are too many other excellent kits that perform as designed to stress over a kit that is not up to par. I have sold and/or given away several hundred sierras (Berea's original) and don't remember the last time I've had a problem with the (original Berea) sierra. Maybe I've been lucky. I can't say the same for other "sierra" clones as Ed has so correctly called them, especially the ones from China.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

The problem described here is generic to the design of the sierra style kit and can happen with any maufacturers kits.

 

[PTownSubbie]

Don,

I fully agree but after you purchase a kit it is kind of hard to just throw it away...... If it doesn't perform as advertised, I MUST find a way to make it perform as advertised.....

I learned my lesson and will never buy this style kit from this manufacturer again but I also agree with Smitty. This type of kit with any intolerances will perform exactly the way it is right now. I have other kits still in their package but have not made them so I don't know if it is the same with each kit or it was a manufacturing defect with this one kit..... Time will tell.

The bottom line is, you never know unless you learn the lesson yourself or someone shares their experiences and that is what I hope to have accomplished with my experience and everyone's input.

 

[jttheclockman]

We should not have to spend time adding, gluing, soldering, welding, taping, dimpling, or using any other technique to make a particular pen kit perform as it is (poorly sometimes) designed to perform. There are too many other excellent kits that perform as designed to stress over a kit that is not up to par. I have sold and/or given away several hundred sierras (Berea's original) and don't remember the last time I've had a problem with the (original Berea) sierra. Maybe I've been lucky. I can't say the same for other "sierra" clones as Ed has so correctly called them, especially the ones from China.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Don consider yourself lucky my friend. This discussion of the sierra kit( Now this is the one that has the tranny srewed to the lower barrel) Has been the topic of dicussion here many times. I don't care who sells it because it still has the same flaw and that is the tranny will get unscrewed especially if the operator has a heavy hand and then forgets and pushes the top tube on and now the tranny is pushed too far into the top you have to be pretty ingenious to get it out. I use a sierra as my everday pen and have had this happen. I am the pen maker so I know what to look for but the buyer may just throw the thing away and you don't hear from them. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The ones with the turning point in the cap are the best and no problems with them. I just need the Vista kits for so many thing and am stuck with that design.

As to the primary poster problem I still am foggy as to what you say is the problem but if you found a fix then good for you and hope it works. May have been a bad run of whatever is wrong. Sure would like to have seen a photo as to what you are talking about because there is only two push in points. Not sure what you mean about the inner part of the finial. This comes already together. Now if that is what is falling apart then that is a whole other story.

I agree and have said this many many times we should not have to glue, improvise or anything when putting kits together. The spinning clip is another prime example. There again Berea makes these kits as well as others and all are bad news.

 

[PTownSubbie]

Not sure what you mean about the inner part of the finial. This comes already together.

Yes the finial all comes as one part. The transmission top is friction fit into the inside of the finial. This friction fit is what keeps the pen in one piece. At least that is what I perceive it as keeping it together anyway.....

The friction fit is what is failing (coming apart).

 

[jttheclockman]

Not sure what you mean about the inner part of the finial. This comes already together.

Yes the finial all comes as one part. The transmission top is friction fit into the inside of the finial. This friction fit is what keeps the pen in one piece. At least that is what I perceive it as keeping it together anyway.....

The friction fit is what is failing (coming apart).

Got it. As I mentioned then the tranny could be the fault or the inside dimension is wrong on the tube.

 

[Smitty37]

Other design issues also

We should not have to spend time adding, gluing, soldering, welding, taping, dimpling, or using any other technique to make a particular pen kit perform as it is (poorly sometimes) designed to perform. There are too many other excellent kits that perform as designed to stress over a kit that is not up to par. I have sold and/or given away several hundred sierras (Berea's original) and don't remember the last time I've had a problem with the (original Berea) sierra. Maybe I've been lucky. I can't say the same for other "sierra" clones as Ed has so correctly called them, especially the ones from China.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Don consider yourself lucky my friend. This discussion of the sierra kit( Now this is the one that has the tranny srewed to the lower barrel) Has been the topic of dicussion here many times. I don't care who sells it because it still has the same flaw and that is the tranny will get unscrewed especially if the operator has a heavy hand and then forgets and pushes the top tube on and now the tranny is pushed too far into the top you have to be pretty ingenious to get it out. I use a sierra as my everday pen and have had this happen. I am the pen maker so I know what to look for but the buyer may just throw the thing away and you don't hear from them. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The ones with the turning point in the cap are the best and no problems with them. I just need the Vista kits for so many thing and am stuck with that design.

As to the primary poster problem I still am foggy as to what you say is the problem but if you found a fix then good for you and hope it works. May have been a bad run of whatever is wrong. Sure would like to have seen a photo as to what you are talking about because there is only two push in points. Not sure what you mean about the inner part of the finial. This comes already together. Now if that is what is falling apart then that is a whole other story.

I agree and have said this many many times we should not have to glue, improvise or anything when putting kits together. The spinning clip is another prime example. There again Berea makes these kits as well as others and all are bad news.

There are also a couple of other issues with the sierra design it is a friction pressure fit between the finial and the transmission. This must be loose enough to allow for hand pressure installation yet tight enough to hold the whole pen together (with a little help at the center band). Either the transmission being a tad small or the tube in the finial being a tad large or a combination of the two can cause the problem here. The center band does have contact with the tube (at least on my pen wear marks indicate it does) and should provide a little help in holding the pen together but since it is designed to slide pretty freely it won't help much.

And, of course there is as you said the transmission unscrewing if someone gets a bit heavy handed. Those problems exist regardless of who manufactures the kit. Tighter tolerances and very strict quality control can reduce their occurance but will never completely eliminate them.

The Gatsby style ( transmission in the top where the finial turns) has it's own problemsm different but still there. If the transmission doesn't get screwed in all the way and the finial in pushed on with too much force...there goes a transmission. I would hesitate to let the user replace the refill in one of these. That being said, I will not give up making either, they are just lovely pens.

 

[latelearner]

I have had the same problem with Sierra's that were purchased from a reputable dealer, and after calling them and explaining the problem, I was told it is a fairly common problem. For a solution, they suggested the Blue cap Loctite as it can be loosened if need be. I tried it on the transmission and have never had the problem again.

 

[ed4copies]

Another consideration that has not been discussed.

Are you using the tube that came with the kit?

I have a "bag" of tubes from which I take ONE when I want to make a sierra pen. If the tubes are made by a different manufacturer, then you add a Berea "guts", all of which require a tight, friction fit--------can you see a potential issue here???

I believe this is "quality control". One manufacturer may not spec the kit exactly the same as the next and hence their parts are interchangeable, but the fit is not precisely the same.

 

[Dudley Young]

:sleepy:

 

[ed4copies]

In English, the Inside Diameter can be a few thousandths different and the pen will not work correctly, the outside will spin and the transmission will not turn, as it should.

It is a friction fit--thousandths of an inch will eliminate the friction.

Clearer??

 

[ctubbs]

In my work, we call that problem 'tollarence stacking'. Nasty stuff and incapacitating. Anytime that things have to fit just so-so and still be mass produced, that terrible thing will eventually rear its ugly head. A workaround or just abandon that type kit is the way that I would have to go.
Ed, once again, without advertising, has got it right.:wink:
Charles

 

[Smitty37]

Almost

In my work, we call that problem 'tollarence stacking'. Nasty stuff and incapacitating. Anytime that things have to fit just so-so and still be mass produced, that terrible thing will eventually rear its ugly head. A workaround or just abandon that type kit is the way that I would have to go.
Ed, once again, without advertising, has got it right.:wink:
Charles

True to a degree -- except you don't need a different manufacturer to be involved...just a different batch from the same manufacturer...we called it "tolerance build-up".

In this case the tube is the least likely culpret...the tube is not holding at the finial end and must slip at the centerband which turns inside the tube and acts like a friction bearing.

The only holding is done at the transmission end where the transmission is held in place by the finial and the nib end turns. Hence the tube is highly unlikely to be causing the problem.

 

[ed4copies]

In my work, we call that problem 'tollarence stacking'. Nasty stuff and incapacitating. Anytime that things have to fit just so-so and still be mass produced, that terrible thing will eventually rear its ugly head. A workaround or just abandon that type kit is the way that I would have to go.
Ed, once again, without advertising, has got it right.:wink:
Charles

True to a degree -- except you don't need a different manufacturer to be involved...just a different batch from the same manufacturer...we called it "tolerance build-up".

In this case the tube is the least likely culpret...the tube is not holding at the finial end and must slip at the centerband which turns inside the tube and acts like a friction bearing.

The only holding is done at the transmission end where the transmission is held in place by the finial and the nib end turns. Hence the tube is highly unlikely to be causing the problem.

Smitty IS correct. And, thanks to his contribution, I believe I will find an "innovation" that will solve this problem. Shop time, tomorrow. Always keep an open mind. Solutions can be assisted by the most unexpected sources:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:.----SMITTY---who'd a thunk!!!! THANKS!!

 

[aggromere]

I don't make any sierra types anymore. I know a lot of folks do, but I have had several come back with the exact same problem you describe. My personal opinion is the design is faulty in that you twist the nib end to expose the point. and over time it wears and comes loose. Also, some guys will carry a pen in the front pants pocket and with all the bending and such I think it is just too stressful for that design. I think though I will go look at one and see if I can figure out how to put the locktite and where to put it. If that fixes the problem that would be great. I think some of the sierra type kits are nice looking.

 

[Smitty37]

I don't make any sierra types anymore. I know a lot of folks do, but I have had several come back with the exact same problem you describe. My personal opinion is the design is faulty in that you twist the nib end to expose the point. and over time it wears and comes loose. Also, some guys will carry a pen in the front pants pocket and with all the bending and such I think it is just too stressful for that design. I think though I will go look at one and see if I can figure out how to put the locktite and where to put it. If that fixes the problem that would be great. I think some of the sierra type kits are nice looking.

Put the locktite on the transmission...it will work. Since there is no reason to take the barrell off the center coupler (the refill is replaced from the nib it should hold forever.

 

[Smitty37]

In my work, we call that problem 'tollarence stacking'. Nasty stuff and incapacitating. Anytime that things have to fit just so-so and still be mass produced, that terrible thing will eventually rear its ugly head. A workaround or just abandon that type kit is the way that I would have to go.
Ed, once again, without advertising, has got it right.:wink:
Charles

True to a degree -- except you don't need a different manufacturer to be involved...just a different batch from the same manufacturer...we called it "tolerance build-up".

In this case the tube is the least likely culpret...the tube is not holding at the finial end and must slip at the centerband which turns inside the tube and acts like a friction bearing.

The only holding is done at the transmission end where the transmission is held in place by the finial and the nib end turns. Hence the tube is highly unlikely to be causing the problem.

Smitty IS correct. And, thanks to his contribution, I believe I will find an "innovation" that will solve this problem. Shop time, tomorrow. Always keep an open mind. Solutions can be assisted by the most unexpected sources:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:.----SMITTY---who'd a thunk!!!! THANKS!!

I would.

 

[jttheclockman]

I don't make any sierra types anymore. I know a lot of folks do, but I have had several come back with the exact same problem you describe. My personal opinion is the design is faulty in that you twist the nib end to expose the point. and over time it wears and comes loose. Also, some guys will carry a pen in the front pants pocket and with all the bending and such I think it is just too stressful for that design. I think though I will go look at one and see if I can figure out how to put the locktite and where to put it. If that fixes the problem that would be great. I think some of the sierra type kits are nice looking.

Put the locktite on the transmission...it will work. Since there is no reason to take the barrell off the center coupler (the refill is replaced from the nib it should hold forever.

Either we are talking about 2 different styles or you lost me totally and I make these pens. On the Sierra the nib does not unscrew such as a cigar kit. To replace the refill you need to pull the top half off and unscrew the tranny. The top half is held onto the bottom half by the finial which is pressed into the tube. There is a friction fit at the centerband where it bulges out but this is where it spins so this can not be a tight fit. This also acts to keep the top half in line with the bottom half. The place to put the locktite is either to hold the finial in the tube which seems to not be the case. So there is only one other place and that is the end of the tranny that has the indents on it. That is what the finial turns. I have never had this problem but have had the problem with the tranny get unscrewed. I have gone to the locktite there but don't like it. The customer has to be able to change the refill.

 

[PTownSubbie]

I don't make any sierra types anymore. I know a lot of folks do, but I have had several come back with the exact same problem you describe. My personal opinion is the design is faulty in that you twist the nib end to expose the point. and over time it wears and comes loose. Also, some guys will carry a pen in the front pants pocket and with all the bending and such I think it is just too stressful for that design. I think though I will go look at one and see if I can figure out how to put the locktite and where to put it. If that fixes the problem that would be great. I think some of the sierra type kits are nice looking.

Put the locktite on the transmission...it will work. Since there is no reason to take the barrell off the center coupler (the refill is replaced from the nib it should hold forever.

Either we are talking about 2 different styles or you lost me totally and I make these pens. On the Sierra the nib does not unscrew such as a cigar kit. To replace the refill you need to pull the top half off and unscrew the tranny. The top half is held onto the bottom half by the finial which is pressed into the tube. There is a friction fit at the centerband where it bulges out but this is where it spins so this can not be a tight fit. This also acts to keep the top half in line with the bottom half. The place to put the locktite is either to hold the finial in the tube which seems to not be the case. So there is only one other place and that is the end of the tranny that has the indents on it. That is what the finial turns. I have never had this problem but have had the problem with the tranny get unscrewed. I have gone to the locktite there but don't like it. The customer has to be able to change the refill.

John, I think you are both talking about the same thing. When Smitty says nib, I read that as the nib section which includes the nib and extention all the way up to the centerband looking thingy that unscrews from the tranny. I might be putting words in his mouth but for the Sierra style kit, when you say nib, I think lower section....... I don't think the actual nib piece comes undone on these pens. At least I have never removed it!