Sharpening Help needed. Again.

[eliasbboy]

God as my witness, my level of happiness in life would grow 10 fold if I could properly sharpen my tools. It's my blind spot. My Achilles heel. I would almost pay someone to come to my house and sharpen them for me at this point. That, or sell blood and plasma to buy new tools when they dull. I have a Work Sharp, two actually, an 8 inch grinder with the Wolverine sharpening system, water stones, Veritas guides and Tormek guides, yet I STILL have the ability to make none of them work. My current lack of success revolves around the skew chisel guides. The guides clamp the skew in place to allow repeated sharpening at a constant angle. However, the geometry of the guides does not match with my oval skews. I made a picture to illustrate. My forum attachments aren't working for some reason so I am using photobucket for the moment to host that pic. Am I over-thinking the variation that is possible in the chisel placement? When I sharpen the chisel once, I have a nice edge. If I go back to touch up or hone, and I rub a black marker on the blade to see if I have it set correctly, I am always off and now grinding a "new" edge. Any help, wisdom, or reality slap in the face would be greatly appreciated. Michael

 

[JohnGreco]

Save yourself time, money, and headaches- go carbide

 

[eliasbboy]

Save yourself time, money, and headaches- go carbide

I have one of the carbide tools that I use for Trustone and some acrylics, but I really like using my skew. I swear tho, the thought of having to incorrectly sharpen my tools sometimes keeps me out of the shop. I am going to order a fine wheel for my grinder to try and get a better result there with the wolverine setup. I really love the results I get from the Work Shark / Tormek combination, but the chisel is not always seated in the same spot and it requires too much grinding to get to the edge that way.

 

[SteveG]

Why not get a skew that is not oval, but has the rounded edge that rests on the tool rest. another idea it to carefully grind a small flat on the oval that will be the reference surface for the jig. This area is normally not in contact with the tool rest in use except when you want to lay it flat to scrape the work. (Please recognize that I have not tried to sharpen an oval skew using the jig shown, so these suggestions are just ideas that might work...not trie and true.)

 

[monophoto]

The skew is the easiest tool there is to sharpen. Hate to be cynical, but I sometimes think that the only real purpose for sharpening jigs is to increase the revenue for those who sell them because I don't think they do that much for turners.

I suggest going back to basics. Put aside the jig, and try one of the manual approaches.

Option 1: I have a 5" sanding wheel that mounts on my headstock spindle. I put a 220 grit disc on the wheel, and resting my hand on the tool rest, I hold the skew with the bevel against the sanding wheel rotating at about 200 r/min. I orient the skew so that the edge is pointed in the direction of rotation of the disc - that is, the edge is approximately on a radial line that passes through the lathe spindle, and the moving abrasive is moving off the edge of the bevel. Hold it lightly against the spinning wheel while moving it from side to side. After a few second, flip the skew over and do the other side (you will have to orient the handle differently to maintain the orientation of the bevel against the moving abrasive).

Option 2: put a few drops of soapy water on a diamond card. I prefer to have the card lying on a bench or on the ways of my lathe. Holding the skew in my right hand with the handle resting against the underside of my right arm, lightly polish the face of the bevel by drawing the skew toward me (so that the diamond card moves off the edge of the bevel). After a few seconds on one side, flip the skew over to repeat the other side. Wipe off the soapy water and metal swarf with a paper towel.

Option 3: put a drop of light oil (3-in-One is ideal) on an oil stone, and polish the bevel of the skew using the same motions that would be used when polishing it on a diamond stone using soapy water as the lubricant. Wipe off the excess oil and metal swarf.

Option 4: (Capt. Eddie's approach) - hold the skew vertically in your right hand with the butt of the handle resting on the ways of your lathe. Using a diamond card in your left hand, lightly rub the face of the bevel with the card moving in a upward direction (away from the edge of the bevel). Repeat on the other side.

I've tried all of these, and they all work.

 

[Katsin]

In my limited experience with the SVS-50 jig I'd say that some chisels can be tough to consistently clamp into it and, when that happens, would prompt minor re-shaping which the Tormek is not good at. Try to eye up the clamping each time to seek consistency and if you have trouble clamping it into the SVS-50 consistently you could use a traditional grinder in conjunction with a BGM-100 jig to do some light shaping before moving the tool to the Tormek.

I'm a big jig fan myself so I don't do much freehand sharpening but, as others have mentioned, the skew is fairly easy to do freehand. I do the strop wheel honing freehand for skews on my Tormek.

 

[yorkie]

From someone who sucks at sharpening and struggled with it for years.

Dump all that stuff you have and buy a Tormek T7. Everyone will have their own opinion but this is what has worked for me.

Buy a Tormek T7, buy a black stone to replace the factory stone and the jigs necessary to sharpen your gouges and skews etc. I get my tools razor sharp and I'm a dufus when it comes to sharpening tools.

 

[eliasbboy]

Well, I have to believe my problems are with the grinder setup. I just set my skew in the SVS-50 to the best of my ability. I say that because none of the predefined settings work for what I have. I probably am going to end up with a custom angle of God knows what degree. The sharpening I've done on my grinder has created a completely uneven skew. There is no symmetry whatsoever on the edge. My setup must be out of square.

As I sit here trying to sharpen on the Work Sharp the skew is sitting at such an angle I am only grinding on one very small area. It's going to need a complete redo to get a proper shape. After that I'm going to simply keep my setting where they are on this jig and use it only for my skew.

Hopefully that will allow me to get consistency.

Hopefully. Lol. I appreciate all the suggestions and believe me when I tell you I am going to try them ALL.

 

[kovalcik]

First of all, don't worry much about the present angle. It does not really matter as long as you are in the neighborhood. Get a reasonable edge on it using the worksharp or a belt sander or whatever you have the most luck with. After you have a decent grind that you like, you only need to touch it up using a diamond card. Remove you tool rest and rest the handle end on the banjo where the tool rest came out. This should put the edge right around eye level to make the touchup easy.

I would recommend Captn Eddie's youtube videos on skew sharpening. He explains it very well.

 

[eliasbboy]

Well, I ordered the Tormek T3. The smaller size (and PRICE) will suit me better. As I already have a few jigs it should work out. Thanks again for all the input and tips.

 

[robutacion]

Sharpening tools, humm...! that is an issue and a half and while I have attempted to explain in words to others, how tool sharpening its done, I fail miserably...!

I love sharpening tools, any tools size and shape, this is no lie, I have offered to sharpen tools and particularly drill bits is certain workshops where I have been for doing some jobs on my vehicles, trailers and others. My mechanic gets all his drill bits sharpen every time I'm there waiting for my vehicle to be service, the very first time I need to drill a hole in my vehicle while they were doing other stuff, told me that, they need help and the excuse was always, they never have time to sharpen them properly so, I promised to have them all sharpened every time I'm there, they would like me to go there more often, though...!:wink::biggrin:

I had an old master to show me how its done, that was in the days where a wet stone was propelled by a foot pedal, the grinding wheel about 2' across and seeing it rotate/turn, it was as wobbly as I sometimes feel...! However, anything that could be shapen on "that thing" including barbers scissors and every chisel in the work-shop, was done with it.

Sharpening with a file, such as handsaws and other blades, was an everyday thing so, I learn from the best and had a lot of practice ( a few heavy boots in my rear end, when I messed up) all that, made me appreciate the principles of tool sharpening and I never lost that ability, the only difference is that my eyes are no longer what they once were...!

Sharpening is one of those things, you either love it or hate it, there jigs/machines today that can do most of the hard work for you, but again, they have to be set-up right otherwise, it drives you nuts.

I would have no problem in taking you through the principles and show you how its done, learning that, you perceptions of what sharpening is about, would change forever, you may never like it but, you would be confident that, every time a toll gets blunt, you could bring it back to perfection, every time...!

You are just too far away so, I'm sorry that, I'm not much of a help to you...!

Find someone near you that can actually spend the time to show you how its done...!

Good luck,

Cheers
George

 

[eliasbboy]

Thank you George, I appreciate that. I have wet stones that I use for sharpening me hand chisels and wood planes, and I enjoy that very much. It's rather relazing. In fact, I'm just in from the shop where I was repairing a broken desk drawer and I was pleased that my chisels cut thru the wood like butter.

My biggest problem is that I have zero training or proper "learning" in wood turning. I simply bought a lathe, watched a few youtube videos and jumped right in. That's why I started with pens. It seemed to be the smallest piece I could turn and do the least damage with.

I am a bit of a perfectionist so when it comes to sharpening I am my own worst critic. I have tried SO many different techniques unsuccessfully I've had to just start over with new skews. lol.

Perhaps I'll keep an eye out for any sharpening classes that pop up. I would be MORE than happy to see it done first hand and learn that way.

Thanks again for your nice response.

 

[Jim Burr]

From someone who sucks at sharpening and struggled with it for years.

Dump all that stuff you have and buy a Tormek T7. Everyone will have their own opinion but this is what has worked for me.

Buy a Tormek T7, buy a black stone to replace the factory stone and the jigs necessary to sharpen your gouges and skews etc. I get my tools razor sharp and I'm a dufus when it comes to sharpening tools.

I just picked up a T3 new in the box for dirt cheap...:biggrin::biggrin:

 

[eliasbboy]

From someone who sucks at sharpening and struggled with it for years.

Dump all that stuff you have and buy a Tormek T7. Everyone will have their own opinion but this is what has worked for me.

Buy a Tormek T7, buy a black stone to replace the factory stone and the jigs necessary to sharpen your gouges and skews etc. I get my tools razor sharp and I'm a dufus when it comes to sharpening tools.

I just picked up a T3 new in the box for dirt cheap...:biggrin::biggrin:

Suuuuuure. Rub it in...:tongue:

 

[low_48]

Save yourself time, money, and headaches- go carbide

Depends on material, but I couldn't disagree more.

 

[low_48]

Where do you live in Chicago? Lots of turners up there. I have kids in Algonquin and near Notheastern University off of W. Foster Ave. Maybe I could help some time? How much would you pay? LOL!

 

[The Penguin]

get rid of the oval skew, or make your own jig to hold it flat for sharpening.

 

[Gumbercules563]

Ok, I will chime in.
Do you know what angle you currently have on the skew? Is it the same (I don't think it will be) as when you bought it? If not. Are you going for a specific angle? I use (reluctantly, I am not very skilled with my skew) sometimes, so why are you using it? That is not a slight, criticism, or any other negative. Just a question. So back to your issue.
Take a sharpie, mark where the jig is holding the tool. Use the sharpening system to get your uniform edge. Now use the tool, or just take it out and put it back in. Mark your edge and bevel with a sharpie so you can see where you are removing metal. With your sharpie. line your sharpie marks back up (the ones you made where the tool and jig are being held to gather). Now turn the the sharpening medium about 1/2 of a full turn. Look at your bevel. Did it get removed evenly? If yes your sharpening system is working, it might not give you the angle you want but it is downing its job. If it did not, you are not put the tool back 100% the same, move your jig in or out to get it to remove evenly.
That last part can be worked with.
You need to measure how much of your tool sticks out each time. 2" is not the same as 2" and a smidge/little/nibblin. It needs to be the same distance. The distance from the jig to sharpening medium is very important. If you free hand you will not get the exact same angle each time, close but not the same. If you need to pick a distance, usually 2 - 3' inches are normal. By that I mean
Put your tool in your jig. Now to the best of your ability (the tighter you dial this in the better) line your bevel up to your sharpening medium. Turn it a few times to ensure you are spot on. Mark, exactly, a reference point. Every time, unless your sharpening system moves in as you remove metal from your tool, you go to sharpen you line that mark up with what you used when making the mark. Assuming you have everything else bolted/screwed/glued down you will make the same angle.
If you need pictures of what I am talking about let me know.