Sharpening

[fmunday]

I figured that we need to have this as a topic of discussion since tool sharpening is something that is near and dear to all of us (or should be). I make no claims to be any kind of an expert when it comes to sharpening. I'm too lazy to be an expert at it. I do, however, have some things that work well for me and I'll try to pass them along in this topic as time goes by and if there is any interest. I think that if anybody has any tips, techniques, procedures or questions about sharpening turning tools, this would be a good place for it.

I'm sure that we would all like to have good lively discussions about this subject and kick around various methods and ideas. As with any other aspect of pen turning not everyone is going to agree with everything that gets posted. If we look at those disagreements in a non emotional manner, I suspect that they will become good learning tools for all of us. Kenn Osborne's signature should apply “We are all students of each others teachings.†So lets get together here and teach each other the best methods of sharpening our tools.

I will start this off by asking a question. Does anybody have experience with sharpening/honing jigs like the ones that Woodcraft is pushing this month?[?] I ask this for a couple of reasons. I have this PRO-PM Skew that I really like and it is in need of a good sharpening. I've decided that I'm not going to use the Wolverine Jig to sharpen this skew. I want to get it, as a friend of mine put it tonight, “spooky sharp†and polished to a mirror finish. I would normally do this by hand but the length of the skew is going
to make controlling it during sharpening difficult. Some of the jigs look interesting but I've never been too fond of them. A buddy of mine tried to get me to use one that he used 20 or so years ago and I found it very difficult to use and maintain the correct angle. He had a set of 3 or 4 stones that fit in a box and the jig rode on the edges of the box. Flat surface of the jig to flat top edges of the box for the stone. I had never seen such a setup before and really haven't seen anything quite like it since. The jig grabbed and twisted and did all manner of bad things.[V] I can maintain the correct angles freehand with shorter skews, chisels and plane irons so I never gave honing jigs a thought until now. Anybody have any advice/experience with'em??? [?]

 

[dw]

Fred,

I've been sharpening knives and such for over 30 years and I'm dern good at it. I know exactly what you mean by "spooky sharp."

Up until about 10 years ago I did it all by hand on various stones--hard and soft Arkansas stones, etc.. Then I saw the "Sharpening System" at a show and gave it a try. This consists of two "cardboard wheels that are mounted on a small grinder body. One of the wheels is impregnated with a renewable grit and the other has a cutting or polishing rouge applied to it. Instant razor!!

I'm still pretty green at woodturning and I've read all the comments about sharpening lathe tools on a slow speed grinder and leaving it go at that. I wouldn't presume to quibble or contradict this approach. But because of my years of experience sharpening knives, when I finish "re-beveling" (sharpening) a chisel on my slow speed grinder (I'm determined to learn how to do it without the use of a jig) I just naturally run the tool through the "Sharpening System"--and the edge I get is sharp enough to shave with...and silky smooth.

What's more I can touch up the edge through a number of uses before I have to go back and re-sharpen on the grinder.

I wouldn't recommend this approach to everyone. You have to have the time and the patience...<b>and</b> the eye...to respect the angles on the chisels/gouges. But then you have to have that respect to sharpen the tools...especially without a jig...in the first place, don't you?

Bottom line is that if you want "spooky sharp" it's definitely worth looking into, IMO.

 

[Bev Polmanteer]

This is a topic that scared me to death! I am so afraid of that grinder, I had a couple bad experiences and nearly lost my hand (or thought so). I have to tell you I've been turning for 5 months now, using the same tools and have never sharpened one of them so you see I MUST learn to do something soon. I purchased the set of leather wheels and have the polishes and a couple hand stones; does that count? I can use all the help anyone will give. Need to know about the speed. I have a grinder made from an old motor and just bought a variable speed switch for it. HELP please!

 

[sparks]

Bev - Does your grinder have a toolrest? A place to lay the tool when you present it to the wheel? That's essential for accuracy and safety. I use a Delta 6-inch grinder with an 80-grit wheel. I go right from there to the lathe. I use a fingernail gouge most of the time and I grind it freehand. I probably don't get the most accurate tip profile or perfect edge, but it cuts just fine. I think that sharpening lathe tools is a balance between the time invested and the quality of the cut. We generally sharpen so frequently that spending too much time for that perfect edge would take a lot of time away from turning. I've seen professional turners work and they sharpen so frequently that the leave the grinder running. I'm amazed you've kept an edge for so long! I'm always interesed in learning new things so this should be a great thread.

 

[Bev Polmanteer]

No Jeff, it's just a wheel. I guess I need to invest in something different. I bought the leather v shaped wheels but that is as far as I got.

 

[fmunday]

Originally posted by dw
<br />Fred,

I've been sharpening knives and such for over 30 years and I'm dern good at it. I know exactly what you mean by "spooky sharp."

A friend of mine used that line after he nicked himself on my spindle gouge once. If memory serves, he had also cut himself on a 1/4" chisle and on my skew earlier in the day. I had just spent a few hours the night before getting everything honed up. I guess there is a lesson there. You should ALWAYS assume that the tool is sharp. He didn't and kinda paid for it.

Up until about 10 years ago I did it all by hand on various stones--hard and soft Arkansas stones, etc.. Then I saw the "Sharpening System" at a show and gave it a try. This consists of two "cardboard wheels that are mounted on a small grinder body. One of the wheels is impregnated with a renewable grit and the other has a cutting or polishing rouge applied to it. Instant razor!!

I had always used stones or fine grit wet/dry (400 - 2000) until recently. It got old having to stop in the middle of a turning session and have to spend an hour or so touching everything up.[] The time involved made me go over to a grinder and a Wolverine Jig. You can't get things spooky sharp but the results are acceptable from a working standpoint.

Have you got a URL or address or something like that on the your "Sharpening System"? That sounds really cool and I'd like to see one in action.

I'm still pretty green at woodturning and I've read all the comments about sharpening lathe tools on a slow speed grinder and leaving it go at that. I wouldn't presume to quibble or contradict this approach. But because of my years of experience sharpening knives, when I finish "re-beveling" (sharpening) a chisel on my slow speed grinder (I'm determined to learn how to do it without the use of a jig) I just naturally run the tool through the "Sharpening System"--and the edge I get is sharp enough to shave with...and silky smooth.

Quit being so humble. [] We've all see your work everytime we login. It will stand with the work of anybody!
I never re-beveled with a grinder until I got the Wolverine Jig. I always did it by hand. I'll do a follow up to explain how I re-bevel by hand a little later. I've got to go turn a couple of blanks for a pen/pencil set for my granddaughter.

What's more I can touch up the edge through a number of uses before I have to go back and re-sharpen on the grinder.

I wouldn't recommend this approach to everyone. You have to have the time and the patience...<b>and</b> the eye...to respect the angles on the chisels/gouges. But then you have to have that respect to sharpen the tools...especially without a jig...in the first place, don't you?

Bottom line is that if you want "spooky sharp" it's definitely worth looking into, IMO.

I'm no expert on sharpening by any stretch of the imagination but IMHO you hit hit the nail on the head with time, patience and the eye. It isn't easy to develop these skills but they are IMHO (again) essential. Grinder and jig: acceptably sharp -- yes spooky sharp -- nope! Don't think it'll ever happen!! Before all of you Tormek users out there get ready to lynch me, I don't call that a grinder and a jig![] That is a whole different can of worms! I can't even afford to look at something like that let alone try one!

DW and group, I'll post some more later on tonight to help explain where I come from on sharpening.

 

[dw]

Fred,

Grizzly has the system...it's called the Razor Sharp System, G5937--$29.00+/-. That's the whole kit--two cardboard wheels, one impregnated with grit, extra grit, rouge and a wax like lubricant. I bought mine years ago at a show after seeing it demonstrated by the inventor (I think he was the inventor) ...even before Griz started carrying it.

Quit being so humble. We've all see your work everytime we login. It will stand with the work of anybody!

[:I] Well, thanks for that, but if I've done any good at all it's simply because I've had so much help from people here and over at yahoo and other forums. Beyond that I've spent years training my eyes and my hands and while I'm not the worlds best craftsman, I know the value of patience and the old dictum..."measure twice and cut once." Truth to tell though, I only have time to turn on weekends and while I'm doing my first bowl right now (no guarantees), I'm still pretty green compared to many of the kind folks I've had access to. I wish I'd of gotten into this about 20 years ago.

 

[William Young]

Hhmm.. I found this interesting and wondered what it lookes like . So I punched G5937 into Grizzlys search engine and came up with this.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/items-list.cfm?

I tried to put a direct link to it but it comes up as a search page. Just type G5937 into product search and hit search and it will appear.


The whole kit and caboodle is on sale for $26.95 and it also lists the replacement parts.
Cardboard ?? I still don't quite understand that part but if it works, what the hey ... .. .
W.Y.

 

[fmunday]

Originally posted by Bev Polmanteer
<br />This is a topic that scared me to death! I am so afraid of that grinder, I had a couple bad experiences and nearly lost my hand (or thought so). I have to tell you I've been turning for 5 months now, using the same tools and have never sharpened one of them so you see I MUST learn to do something soon. I purchased the set of leather wheels and have the polishes and a couple hand stones; does that count? I can use all the help anyone will give. Need to know about the speed. I have a grinder made from an old motor and just bought a variable speed switch for it. HELP please!

Bev,
It looks like you're on the right track...<b>BUT</b> first and foremost <b>GET A JIG OR SOME SORT OF TOOL REST</b>. I don't mean to shout at you but trying to do anything with out it is dangerous! As I see it, you have 4 or 5 choices.
1. Buy or build a sharpening jig for your grinder. Since it sounds like a home brew grinder, you might be better off to try to build one because the dimensions may be a problem for commercial jigs.
2. Invest in some good stones designed for bench use and probably some sort of hand jig to help you maintain the proper angle while re-beveling your tools.
3. Talk to the people at your local Woodcraft/Rockler/whoever woodworking store and see if they can recommend someone that can sharpen your tools for you. Gotta be someone that sharpens tools and plane irons not somebody that grinds axes and lawn mower blades.
4. Check with your local turning club. The local club here holds workshops every other Sat. and has the facilities to sharpen your tools and they are more than happy to help out that way.
5. Take a sharpening class at Woodcraft or some other place that offers them.
I have to defer to others concerning the use of lether strop wheels. I've never used them
Wheel speed was a concern that I had when I decided to start using a jig and grinder. I got a low speed (1,750 RPM) Delta and the Wolverine Jig and then watched the videos from their web site. I know, that is getting the cart before the horse. I figured slower was better. One Way kept insisting that you should use a 3,450 RPM grinder. After much discussion with others and on the Yahoo penturners group, I came to the conclusion that it is more a matter of touch than speed. I don't know quite how to put this. If you are going to be doing mostly really hard wood, TruStone or Corian then you should probably go with a grinder. Your edge won't be as good as re-beveling by hand but your turn around time will be much shorter. Even it a grinder is the way you decide to go, you should probably learn to re-bevel by hand. You will get a finer edge (the spooky sharp that DW and I have been talking about) and you will notice the difference when you turn. Your cuts will be cleaner and more accurate and there is a sense of accomplishment that just feels good![]
BTW... If you've been working with your current tools for 5 months or so without sharpening them, use an extremely light touch the first time you use them after sharpening. Attacking a pen blank with a freshly sharpened tool the same way you attack one with a dull tool will probably be disasterous to the project that you're working on.

There are lots of plans out there for sharpening jigs. Somebody here mentioned one last night (at least it was last night when I read it []). I downloaded the instructions on a whim. I will email them to you.

 

[dw]

William,

That's it!

I've tried leather strops and leather strop wheels--that's what I learned on--and while they're good, they're not as good as this system. Don't worry about it being cardboard. I've had my set for about ten years and I've re-gritted the sharpening wheel three times and re-surfaced the buffing wheel once. There's no sign of the the wheels getting significantly smaller in diameter or wearing out.

I might add--emphatically--that this system is <b>not</b> a substitute for a good grinder, at least not in the long run and especially not for HSS tools. It cannot put the correct angle on a gouge...well, actually, maybe it can but you'd be a while doing it...and the correct (or close) angle is very important when you want to "ride the bevel"--as with a skew chisel, for instance. What this system <b> will </b> do, however, is "resharpen" your edge when it begins to get dull (for a limited number of times...and then you have to "re-bevel") and hone it down to a polished and "spooky sharp" edge.

Riding the bevel is why I like a honed and polished edge, BTW. Think of it like a glacier...all those ridges and irregularities left by the grinder tend to drag and abrade as the bevel rides on the wood and the tools begins its cut. In my experience, a knife will always cut cleaner and smoother when honed...I don't know why it would be any different with a chisel.

I test my knives and my chisels/gouges by pointing the edge at the floor and then gently lowering them onto my thumbnail, which also is pointed to the floor. If the edge catches...<b>easily</b>... it's sharp. Also if you look at the edge in a strong light you shouldn't be able to see it. Not even a glint.