Segmenting Tools?

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snyiper

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Just wondering what people are using to cut the segments with. Chop saws,hand saws,table saws or even a good hand mitre saw. Also is the blank drilled after it is segmented ? I would love to see how everyone does this to get nice smooth transitions between pieces..Thanks
 
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rjwolfe3

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I use a table saw and drill after segmenting but I am still working on getting straight lines. Maybe it is inferior equipment but it might be the inferior operator!
 

jleiwig

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Just wondering what people are using to cut the segments with. Chop saws,hand saws,table saws or even a good hand mitre saw. Also is the blank drilled after it is segmented ? I would love to see how everyone does this to get nice smooth transitions between pieces..Thanks

People have used all the above with much sucess. Malcolm Tibbetts who is one of the more well known segmented turners uses a CSMS and a mondo huge disc sander. Jigs and careful planning are 99.9% of the sucessful segmentation.

For curved segments you will need to either use a bandsaw or a scroll saw.
 

mick

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Glenn I use a thin kerf 80 tooth finish blade on my table saw. I've also built a sled for the saw so I can clamp the piece and make a more accurate cut.....no sanding required
 

leehljp

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Many people use what ever they have - along with their imagination. Some have to practice at it and develop some skill (like me) and they do just fine! Others are just naturally talented and gifted, but the greatest asset is the imagination.

I made my own small scale saw from a circular saw:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Table_Sled_2.jpg

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Precision_Jig_1.jpg


The next link is to a blank that I make the most for friends. It has some straight but precise segments separated by brass:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Blank_construction.jpg

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Glued_solder.jpg

Let your imagination be your guide:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_30_Pieces_of_Silver.jpg


The above pen is drilled BEFORE cutting for segmenting and assembly. Most of mine - in which I use brass or aluminum as a segmenting separator, I drill before assembly. It is not necessary in many cases. However, if drilling AFTER segmenting . . . and metal is used, the metal will get hot and the glue will often lose its bonding.

My most difficult segment:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Baron_PenStripes.jpg

For this one, I had to wrap string around each tube from end to end and cover the string with CA. This held it together until it was round. Then I wrapped string around it again and CA'ed it again and turned down again. On each end after turning the thread off, I CA'ed it good to keep if from flying a part. The point is - Segments are works of art and patience teachers - not fast productions. :wink:
 
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islandturner

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"Let your imagination be your guide:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/ima..._of_Silver.jpg"

Hello Hank.

Great photos and pointers. One question regarding the pen in the link above, is that hollow-core silver solder that you've used at the top of the pen? Or hollow-core lead solder? How did you get the centers to be black?

Very impressive pen....!

Thanks again...
Steve

PS Really good photo, too...!
 
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I use a chop saw and a table saw and a piece of sand paper because that is what I have. I drill most blanks after segmenting. Just make sure you drill through the center of the design. My PITH pen was drilled and put together around the tube because it was easier make sure the pieces were all the same that way.
 

glycerine

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I have been cutting on the bandsaw, glueing them together and then drilling. But as Hank mentioned, I have had a few pop apart on me when drilling if metal was involved. They glue back together easily, but it might save some time to predrill if you can.
 

glycerine

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Wow that is some awesome segmenting!!!! Thanks for all the pics and pointers,not sure I am ready yet!!

Of course you're ready! I've only done a handfull of segmented designs myself, but you've got to start somewhere/sometime. The only way you'll get good at it and learn the techniques is to jump in and do it...
 

randyrls

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I use a 7-1/4" carbide circular saw blade in my 10" table saw.

What ever you use, a sled and clamp downs to hold both both sides of the cut line are important!

SawStop saws need blades of 8" or greater.
 

BigguyZ

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My most difficult segment:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/images/940/1_Baron_PenStripes.jpg

For this one, I had to wrap string around each tube from end to end and cover the string with CA. This held it together until it was round. Then I wrapped string around it again and CA'ed it again and turned down again. On each end after turning the thread off, I CA'ed it good to keep if from flying a part. The point is - Segments are works of art and patience teachers - not fast productions. :wink:

Hank,

I've always loved the pinstripes. May I ask exactly how you made that? Is it angled cuts/ wedges glued together? I always thought it was something like grooves routed out via in indexing jig, and filled in.... That's incredible, either way. I'f be worried about being exactly on center. I can imagine that even if the holes off a bit, it'll telegraph.

Travis
 

leehljp

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"Let your imagination be your guide:

http://www.penturners.org/photos/ima..._of_Silver.jpg"

Great photos and pointers. One question regarding the pen in the link above, is that hollow-core silver solder that you've used at the top of the pen? Or hollow-core lead solder? How did you get the centers to be black?

Steve

Steve, I used tin/silver hollow core solder. (Not lead solder). The core caused the dots. Initially I did not want that but I was in a bit of a bind to get the first two done. After the making, I liked the little dimples (black holes.) The dimples just came out black. I think it is because the holes showed up so cleanly cut. I did NOT sand that - rather I did the first time and it smeared worse than pencil lead. So, I cranked the speed up to around 3000 RPM and used a scraper that I spent about 15 minutes sharpening to a very fine razor edge. The cutting was very clean and what you see in that photo.
 

leehljp

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Hank,

I've always loved the pinstripes. May I ask exactly how you made that? Is it angled cuts/ wedges glued together? I always thought it was something like grooves routed out via in indexing jig, and filled in.... That's incredible, either way. I'f be worried about being exactly on center. I can imagine that even if the holes off a bit, it'll telegraph.

Travis

Travis,

That pinstripe is the hardest blank for me to do. I had a trial run, learned what I needed to do and then I made that one. Worked great. THEN the next 3 tries ended in disaster! I let it go for about a year and tried again - twice again, I had problems.

I used a jig to make the blank 8 sided. That is tricky but can be done so that the sides are within tolerances of better than 1/250 in of each other. The next two parts is what always messed me up:
1. Getting the slit down the precise middle of each side; If the blank is 1/64 or 1/100 in wider on one end than the other, it will eventually show up with stripes out of alignment just a smidgen. You are right about it telegraphing and increasing the problem!
2. Getting a perfect kerf down each side. Vibration, uneven pushing of the blank caused small kerf wobbles. I made a hold down clamp since then but The problems with my hold down clamp is that it tends to "move" the blank just a smidgen as it clamps down - at least on "one" of the sides. And again it telegraphs the mistake.


I did that pen in the picture on a one piece holly blank. Then I wrapped the whole pen with thread an CAed the thread. Learned that from Eagle. Next, I cut to length and drilled the holes. As you can imagine, I did NOT use a pen mill on the ends, I used a sander mill and took it slow.

After drilling, inserting/gluing in the tube, I turned it until it was round. Then I put string on it and glued it again. Next, I turned about half of the blank to near size, then thread and glue on that end. THEN the second half of the same blank . . and back to the first half with thread on it.

That might be considered overkill on the protection part, but I did not want to chance it coming apart. I thought each step through and tried to prepare for the worst case scenario. It worked fine. Just can't seem to do it any more! There have been a few stripes posted since by others then that looked great! I think one was done on a metal lathe.

I want to perfect' the jigs and try again when I get some time . . . after retirement in just over a year.
 
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The first pen I segmented was the fourth pen that I made. Don't wait until you are ready just try it. He who hesitates is lost, who dares wins. :rotfl: Seriously, Just try it, use what equipment you have, Forget the pen and paper head to the shop and try things.
 

Rojo22

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For segmenting, I have watched, and cut segments for bowls, Christmas tree onrnaments, pens and a number of other projects using a radial arm saw with a Forrester I blade. The fence is set up with a block that has the opposite angle of the cut. This is by far the fastest and in my opinion most accurate set up when you achieve the angle you want. It may take a few to a dozen practice cuts in scrap material to get the angle correct, but it requires no sanding or complicated math. The radial arm saw has a dangerous reputation, and a great deal of care needs to be taken when using one, but it can be done quite safely with a little respect for the tool.

I have cut 55 gallon trash cans full of segments (using any number of wood types) to use for bowls using this method, and rarely do we ever have a problem with the glue ups (sometimes we have issues with the idiots gluing the blanks up). We use a Dewalt radial arm saw that is older than I am, and check for the precision of the cuts about every 30 or so cuts, but it is a great way to get a ton of very accurate pieces cut.

I have a Sears Radial arm saw, that I am trying to set up for my shop to get the same results as my woodworking mentor. We are just about ready to add the table top to it, and then install the Forrester I blade on it, and give it a whirl. I will let you know what the results are.

Most of my blanks are glued together first, and then drilled before turning.
 

rjwolfe3

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using a radial arm saw with a Forrester I blade

Could I see a picture of your setup? I have a radial arm saw that I paid good money for and all it does is gather dust.

Jeff, I am getting more excited about getting a scroll saw. Now I can't wait for tax time to come around.

How bout that, someone who is excited about taxes, lol.
 

snyiper

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I have a radial arm saw as well as several scroll saws and chop/mitre saw guess I need to learn to use one of them to get any good at segmenting....
 
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