Seeking advice from the experts...

[ssalvage]

So, I'm guessing I am the only one here to EVER have this happen... :tongue: but I had my first tube seize up on me during the glue up process. Everything seemed to be going as per normal. Drilled, reverse painted, overnight dry, and thick CA …but then out of nowhere it just locked up, almost instantly! It also seemed completely indifferent to me, because it didn't matter how much I begged, pleaded, pushed, pulled, screamed, or cursed. The tube was done, and stubbornly refused to budge.

Now if this were just any piece of wood, I'd still be irritated, but probably just say, "oh well" and toss it in the scrap bin. As you can see though, this is not just any piece of wood. This is one of Jeff Powell's beautiful Black Ash Burl blanks, so I am contemplating how best to attempt saving it.

As I see it, these are my options:
1) Do nothing and toss it in the scrap bin. (not really an option for a stubborn person like me)
2) I could do my absolute best to try to square up the face, cut off the remaining tube, and try to re-glue the 2nd half of the tube in the back side, so that the 2 ends meet together. (this seems a little far-fetched since it is highly unlikely that I could ever get the ends of the tube to match up close enough inside for the pen to actually work once it's done)
3) I could try to use a de-bonder to dissolve the CA enough to get the tube out. (but I assume the de-bonder will also eat away at the acrylic and ruin the blank)
4) I could try to drill it out. (but due to its composite nature, it seems likely that this would just cause the blank to explode)

Truthfully, I don't like ANY of these options, but since #1 is absolutely out of the question, I have to at least TRY something else. Anyone have any suggestions for a semi-noob to pen turning?
(on a side note, I have already ordered and will be transitioning to 15 min epoxy from now on)

 

[ed4copies]

2 is the answer and it is NOT difficult.

You are concerned about the operation of the pen, so I should ask what kit is it??

OF COURSE, I have never done such a thing, but the friends who have, have had great success with gluing in the other end or gluing in an additional, new tube. You will work on proper length AFTER the glue cures fully and you are readying for turning.

Will give more info after we see what kit you are using.

Ed"s friends!!

 

[Pete275]

Hi Shane, I think you just had something that most likely everyone on the site has experienced. I think your best bet would be to heat up the tube and that should break it loose. Back when I used CA I had many a tube break loose because I got everything too hot. Just saw Ed's post and concur on that also.

Wayne

 

[ed4copies]

If you heat the tube, you take the chance of breaking the bond between the wood and resin used to make the blank. BEWARE!!!

Edit in: I am NOT saying it will NOT work, just be careful!!!

 

[ssalvage]

2 is the answer and it is NOT difficult.

You are concerned about the operation of the pen, so I should ask what kit is it??

OF COURSE, I have never done such a thing, but the friends who have, have had great success with gluing in the other end or gluing in an additional, new tube. You will work on proper length AFTER the glue cures fully and you are readying for turning.

Will give more info after we see what kit you are using.

Ed"s friends!!

Thanks for the reply Ed. I forgot to mention that it is a cigar kit. The tube that locked is the lower portion, which is why I was concerned about functionality. My assumption was that if I didn't get the tubes to completely butt up to each other, the tip of the ink refill wouldn't be able to extend out.

 

[Pete275]

Wow! I didn't think of that! That is why this site is so great!! Hey Shane, sorry I wasn't considering the type of blank! Thanks Ed for the correction!

Wayne

 

[KenV]

Shane,

You have one of the reasons for my choice to use epoxy most of the time. You have a bunch of "been there done that" company.

 

[ssalvage]

Shane,

You have one of the reasons for my choice to use epoxy most of the time. You have a bunch of "been there done that" company.

haha. I figured as much. I've only been turning pens for about 6 months now, and almost everyone I've talked with has a story about a tube locking up. I guess I started getting cocky, thinking that it wouldn't happen to me... and then to nobody's surprise, I am humbled. :laugh:

 

[Mr Vic]

#2 to a degree. I suggest getting a spare tube and measuring the length. Then glue it in the other end after cleaning out any residual glue inside. Use the measurement to true the blank to the correct length so as to not trim too short.

Ed, guess I must be one of your friends.:wink:

 

[edstreet]

A simple pen press WILL remove the ca and should not damage the blank. It takes minimal effort and pressure to break the glue joint as ca is very low yield. There is absolutely no need to reinvent the wheel and cut the tube.

Try it and see for yourself.

 

[ed4copies]

After 20 years of making pens, I guess I have reinvented the wheel several times. Feel free to try any method you like!!

 

[1080Wayne]

Although #2 will work , it leaves the wood unsupported where the tubes meet . I did it once , dropped the finished pen almost immediately , and it broke . I figured that if it could break for me , it could also break for a customer , so I have never repeated the experiment . Use Ed Streets method - the worst that can happen is you lose a blank , not a customer .

 

[edstreet]

Although #2 will work , it leaves the wood unsupported where the tubes meet . I did it once , dropped the finished pen almost immediately , and it broke . I figured that if it could break for me , it could also break for a customer , so I have never repeated the experiment . Use Ed Streets method - the worst that can happen is you lose a blank , not a customer .

This right here is words of wisdom. It is highly professional in the fact it considers the future fate of the open long after it leaves your care and places value on that. It's not about a quick and dirty sale but a high quality experience. This route shows due diligent to the future buyer / user.

CA as many of you may not be aware of has a very weak sheer strength. Meaning of you bonded two materials then pushed them in opposing directions the bond strength will break easily. A slight amount of pressure on a pen press will suffice. I have done this a number of times. I have also purposely glued tubes incorrectly to demonstrate this method.

 

[skiprat]

Hold the blank in a vise, or even in your lathe chuck, with 4 jaws,so that the end of the blank with the tube sticking out is supported by the ends of the jaws.
Grip the tube with large pliers right up next to the blank and crush the tube. This will break a lot of the glue bond. Now twist and pull the tube out.

Butch - IBD200, also once had success by inserting a hot soldering iron down the middle and the heat broke the bond.

I dont like the cut and bodge method

If the tube was almost fully in, then I would drill it out.

Let us know how you do it. Good luck.:wink:

 

[jttheclockman]

I will weigh in here also and I find nothing wrong with cutting the piece off and inserting into the other end. For the blank to break at that specific spot that the two tubes meet is pretty amazing. The tubes add strength to the blank material and that is still accomplished. But their main function is to hold the components in place as they are pressed in. The one problem is though when you insert that short of a tube in you will get glue residue inside unless you plug it up. You need to ream the ends also.


If you are so concerned about the pen breaking when dropped, think about all those special pens made without any tubes(kitless pens) everyone should break on impact when dropped.

As mentioned to avoid this problem switch to epoxy. In my opinion that is the better choice anyway.


By the way I must add this disclaimer before someone else does. I AM NO EXPERT and do not pretend to be one.

 

[OOPS]

The guy I learned pen turning from told me that sometimes there is a chemical reaction between CA glue and the resin found in that particular species of wood. Therefore, he suggested that we always use two part epoxy when gluing wood. I have had good success with polyurethane on wood, but always use epoxy on acrylic blanks. My friends decided to use CA on their wood blanks, but soon found that the number of wood varieties that cause this problem was significant enough that they went to polyurethane as well.

Others have helped you out this time, but this might be the best bet for in the future. I hope it helps.

 

[Joey-Nieves]

When it happens to me I do different thing depending on the blank and the wood.
Some wood resins react to CA and dry up very fast.

• If I'm fast enough I put the blank in the pen press and press it in.
• Hold the blank in a vice and heat the tube, the CA melts at high temp. I use a presto-lite, because It's in my shop, but a heat gun and patience will work.
• Some blanks just ask for rings, so I make them happy.

 

[sschering]

If you use the cut and drill method why not epoxy in a a piece of 1 size smaller brass inside to support the cut? Almost all brass is sold in telescoping sizes.

Just make sure the support piece is short enough and centered to lets the ends press in.

Someday when I get to it I plan to make a segmented Carbon fiber blank this way.

Also if you don't feel you can drill perfectly down the hole to clean it out you can use the telescoping brass as an arbor. Chuck up the outer tube, file some teeth in the end and drill slowly using the inner tube as the guide to clear out the ca. It will be slow going but it works.. I've been making close end needle cases and always drill the end caps with the brass tubing so they have wood supporting them inside and out.

 

[Smitty37]

2 is the answer and it is NOT difficult.

You are concerned about the operation of the pen, so I should ask what kit is it??

OF COURSE, I have never done such a thing, but the friends who have, have had great success with gluing in the other end or gluing in an additional, new tube. You will work on proper length AFTER the glue cures fully and you are readying for turning.

Will give more info after we see what kit you are using.

Ed"s friends!!

Agreed and I would also venture to say the pen would be no more likely to break if dropped than any other pen. Careful measurement should let you determine how much tube is now inside the blank and you match it up. Stop using CA fro gluing in blanks it does not work well because as Ed Street mentioned it has weak shear strength and all of the stresses you apply during turning are shear stresses. In my opinion about any other glue will work better.

 

[cschimmel]

This is all great info, Having NEVER messed up a pen its good to know for the future if it ever happens!!

 

[brownsfn2]

This is all great info, Having NEVER messed up a pen its good to know for the future if it ever happens!!

^^LOL^^

 

[ssalvage]

It's been a while, but I wanted to say thank you to all who gave their input to my dilemma. I finally got back around to working on this guy again, and based on the suggestions made in this thread, I was able to save the blank and finish the pen.

I really appreciate all the years of experience and different perspectives this forum has to offer! :good:

 

[edstreet]

The main question now becomes HOW did you save/fix it?

 

[Ambidex]

My guess is #2:wink:

 

[ssalvage]

The main question now becomes HOW did you save/fix it?

haha I had a feeling this might be one of the first questions asked. Honestly, I didn't want to say, only because it appeared there were some pretty strong opinions about the right way, wrong way, lazy way, etc. and I didn't feel the need to throw any gas on that fire.

What I will say, is that I value experience. Now, when experience speaks up and give you a solution that is so simple and easy that you have a "duh, why didn't I think of that" moment... I would just be a fool to ignore it. :biggrin:

 

[jttheclockman]

Sounds like a Politicians answer. Glad you were able to fix it or recover it. there are some good ideas for others here in case it happens to them also. You are now armed with some more ammunition in the world of pen turning. Good luck.

 

[edstreet]

Really it does not matter to me which option you chose to go with. I will still sleep at night and sleep peaceful. .

Was mostly curious as to the outcome because in the grand scheme of things everyone, well most everyone that is, is looking for better, smarter and more intelligent ways to do things. This also includes attention to details long after the sale and the goal is stability.

So no need to sugar coat and or beat around the bush the decision is already made so go ahead and spill it for everyone. Here will be no hurt feelings involved.

 

[Dave_Junior]

Wow, this has happened to me as well with the same cigar kit! This information will come in handy.

 

[Joey-Nieves]

It happened to me again yesterday, I set my torch for a very low flame and heated the tube very carefully as too not burn the wood, and pushed the tube out when the CA melted.