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Old 03-30-2019, 07:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Default Scratches and tool chatter

I have been noticing that my tool rest might not be well seated and that the banjo might be moving when I run my lathe at high speeds.

I am not happy with my recent pens because of the scratch marks and CA Run. Here is what I did:
1. Shaped with carbide cutter
2. Sanded with mesh 400 paper and then 600 (slow speed on the lathe and then with the lathe off sanded with the grain)
3. Sanded with micro mesh and walnut oil
4. Applied CA using paper towel. Used thin CA from Smith Industry. Wiped on 8 coats alternating starting from left to right. I think my lathe was at 500 rpm.
image1553990927.512452.jpgimage1553990938.467277.jpg

Any suggestions for me?
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Do you sand after application of the CA?
I find the application of CA can be 'messy' and not perfectly smooth.
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:44 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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If the scratches/marks are visible before CA, then they will most likely be visible after CA. Sanding with 400 should remove tool marks but will leave behind 400 grit sanding marks. If you still have tool marks then spend more time sanding, or work your way up from larger grit. I use a skew with a light scraping cut to avoid needing sandpaper - both methods have their pros and cons.

I avoid putting anything that won't evaporate on the blank prior to CA. I know that BLO/CA is fairly common, but I just don't trust it.

I don't see a need to sand a blank above 800 grit prior to CA (maybe 1500). While I don't think MM before finishing will cause problems, I think it is a waste of time and effort.

Are you doing any sanding/polishing/buffing after applying CA? I also use Bob Smith Industries thin CA, I find that it cures quite hard so requires a bit of sanding to get smooth prior to MM. I usually go with 800 unit I don't see any shiny spots (low spots stay shiny), then I go to 1500 prior to MM. All sanding and MM is wet with water. If the grain is open or there are other holes, I will sand with 400/800/1500 and then reapply CA.

I find that number of coats of CA is somewhat arbitrary, since different methods and different CA will apply differebt amounts of CA with each coat. I shoot for a finish that is about 0.007 to 0.010 inches. This is usually about 8 coats with BSI thin using open cell foam as the applicator. I'm thinking that you are probably getting adequate thickness of CA, but you may want to check with calipers.
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:27 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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Probably going to get lots of replies on this one.
The scratches in your pics appear to be NOT tool marks. I'm thinking they are surface scratches in the CA.
When you sand over 400, consider sanding wet.
Consider sanding with MM wet (water is fine).
Pay attention to keeping the grits "uncontaminated" with debris from previous grits.
MM gets old like any abrasive and needs to be replaced (although not as often)
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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BTW, I love the photobomb by your dog. It looks like she's practiced that stare -- hungry, wants to sit on your lap, etc...
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Old 03-30-2019, 10:40 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Many things here. First do not sand with MM before doing the CA finish. Wasting time and ruining your MM pads. Never add walnut oil when sanding before finishing with CA or any other finish. Oil under a finish will have an effect on the finish and that is including CA. You may not see it at first but over time it will peel and crack on you. If you start with 400 grit than make sure you sand with the length of the blank to help get sanding marks out. Also before you go up to 800 grit you better do 600 grit or again you are wasting your time. I would stop at 600 if you are doing a CA finish because it will not be any benefit going higher. Again though make sure you sand with the grain of the wood after all said and done. Make sure you wipe the blank down to rid it of any grit from sandpaper. I like to use acetone in case there is any oils from wood or fingerprints left on blank. Some people use denatured alcohol.
As far as CA finish, there are about 100 different methods so will leave that to you. But I will use 3 coats of thin and sand with 1200 grit. wipe down and then use med CA for usually 4 to 5 coats. Depends on my caliper measurements. I do not wipe back and forth. I wipe once each way and leave it alone. The more you try to be perfect with it the more chance of a mess.

Good luck and just for you to know these are my opinions only.
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Old 03-31-2019, 06:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalis View Post
Do you sand after application of the CA?
I find the application of CA can be 'messy' and not perfectly smooth.


Yes, I sanded after the CA because the CA looked wavy. When I sanded it I could see from the sanding that it wasn’t even.


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Old 03-31-2019, 06:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted iin Michigan View Post
Probably going to get lots of replies on this one.
The scratches in your pics appear to be NOT tool marks. I'm thinking they are surface scratches in the CA.
When you sand over 400, consider sanding wet.
Consider sanding with MM wet (water is fine).
Pay attention to keeping the grits "uncontaminated" with debris from previous grits.
MM gets old like any abrasive and needs to be replaced (although not as often)


What is the best way to clean the MM? I don’t have running water
In my shop and rely on rain water. I might need to increase my water supply.


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Old 03-31-2019, 06:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dehn0045 View Post
BTW, I love the photobomb by your dog. It looks like she's practiced that stare -- hungry, wants to sit on your lap, etc...


Thanks! That is Sadie. Probably the friendliest dog in the world. My wife calls her “wiggle bottom” because she wags her tail so hard her entire lower body swings from side to side!


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Old 03-31-2019, 06:52 AM   #10 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jttheclockman View Post
Many things here. First do not sand with MM before doing the CA finish. Wasting time and ruining your MM pads. Never add walnut oil when sanding before finishing with CA or any other finish. Oil under a finish will have an effect on the finish and that is including CA. You may not see it at first but over time it will peel and crack on you. If you start with 400 grit than make sure you sand with the length of the blank to help get sanding marks out. Also before you go up to 800 grit you better do 600 grit or again you are wasting your time. I would stop at 600 if you are doing a CA finish because it will not be any benefit going higher. Again though make sure you sand with the grain of the wood after all said and done. Make sure you wipe the blank down to rid it of any grit from sandpaper. I like to use acetone in case there is any oils from wood or fingerprints left on blank. Some people use denatured alcohol.

As far as CA finish, there are about 100 different methods so will leave that to you. But I will use 3 coats of thin and sand with 1200 grit. wipe down and then use med CA for usually 4 to 5 coats. Depends on my caliper measurements. I do not wipe back and forth. I wipe once each way and leave it alone. The more you try to be perfect with it the more chance of a mess.



Good luck and just for you to know these are my opinions only.


Thank you for the feedback. I should have mentioned that I use the denatured alcohol to clean the blank between sanding levels. I also think I got my sanding levels wrong. I have a pen turners pack and just use two grits from it 400 and 600. I read somewhere that starting lower is inviting trouble

I will drop the MM sanding before the CA when I go that route. The oil under the finish is probably a bad idea. Makes sense to me. I like the feel of the wood on some pens so I will continue to mix it up.

Thank you everyone for the suggestions. I appreciate the help as I work to improve my pens.


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