Russ Fairfields Snakewood Tips

[DocStram]

I've searched and searched ... unsuccessfully. Can somebody point me in the direction of Russ Fairfield's suggestions for keeping the oils in Snakewood? It was part of a long thread that we had going about Snakewood cracking. In that thread, Russ gave us his hypothesis on why sw cracked and what he does to prevent it from happening. Can anybody remember where it is in the archives? [?]

 

[RussFairfield]

Forget what I said. I now have a snakewood pen with a crack. Obviously what I said didn't work on this one.[][]

Edited to add "smiley" because original message was intended humor.

 

[penhead]

This one..??

http://www.penturners.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=14296&SearchTerms=snakewood,oil

 

[penhead]

Oops, sorry Russ, you were about 30 seconds faster than me [:I]

 

[DocStram]

Originally posted by RussFairfield
<br />Forget what I said. I now have a snakewood pen with a crack. Obviously what I said didn't work on this one.

Russ ... Was there anything that you did differently on this one? When did the crack appear?
Did you use 1-K?
What about the mineral oil wipe?
Did you put a finish on it?
Let's think this through and see if we can figure out what might have happened with it.

 

[wudnhed]

I'm interested too, I had my pen out on a table last weekend for a little show. Someone picked up a pen and it had a crack going down the length of the barrel. I was soooooooo embarrassed![V]

 

[RussFairfield]

I added smileys to the 1st message in this thread because humor was intended.

As I said in the original message, I had never made a snakewood pen at that time. Since then, I have made 5 of them, and one has a crack.

This pen that cracked had some harsh treatment. It sat overnight in my truck when the outside temperature was well below freezing. It was cold enough that a bottle of water froze solid. The crack was there after it was brought inside the next day and warmed up again.

I suspect the temperature change caused the crack.

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

I don't recall who posted it, but one turner here turns the wood then sets it aside until it cracks. Then (S)he puts it back on the lathe and fills the crack with dust from the shavings and CA.

I have never tried any snakewood (I don't find it appealing) but if I did I think this is what I would do.

 

[its_virgil]

Yep, that's what I do and so does Anthony "Penworks Penchetta" Turchetta. We both think a cracked and repaired snakewood is nicer than most any other pen we can make...unless Anthony has changed his mind.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by Blind_Squirrel
<br />... one turner here turns the wood then sets it aside until it cracks. Then (S)he puts it back on the lathe and fills the crack with dust from the shavings and CA.

 

[leehljp]

Russ,

I don't really deserve to be in conversation with most on this forum as I still do not turn pens with half the quality as most of you make. Having said THAT, I would like to say thanks for the recent article on DNA.

The DNA ties into the topic of this post. I created one snakewood pen last spring for my daughter and it did well and is still fine. The next two snakewood blanks cracked (one cracked, one blew out at the end) when drilling and I took it very very slow and used sharpened bits.

On the last snakewood blank that I tried, I made a Baron. It came out perfect! But then small cracks developed in several places two months after wards.
The time line in creating the pen was like this: Early September drill the blanks (more detail below); mid Sept, glue up with epoxy; Turn in late October, finish, mid November. (The delay was actually because of work and lack of time to do it all in one week.)

Early January, notice two cracks, barely visible, mid January, notice 6 cracks total, all barely visible and nicely spaced.

My one suspect for the problem: When I was drilling this one, I wanted to get the drilling done within an hour or so and didn't want to wait for the blanks to return to normal room temperature after every 1/2 in as I had done on the ones that blew out, (a good habit to get into for sensitive woods). <b>SO, I used DNA in the drilling process.</b> I drilled 1/8 in and eased out, 1/8 in and eased out. Once down to 1/2 in, I would fill the hole with DNA. Cool bit and cool hole. Filled the hole with DNA with every 1/4 inch of depth drilled. (Hey, we use oil baths in drilling metal to help keep the bit and metal cool, so it did sound logical, at least to me, at that time before your DNA article.) [:I] [)] [B)]

No cracks or blowouts during the drilling. The bit stayed reasonably cool. BUT I beleive that I payed for the exprience because it removed the natural oils and now I have uniform cracks almost systematically around both ends of the pen. And the cracks are very fine, tend to blend in with the snakewood itself. If I were to take the pen apart and put it back on the lathe, the cracks are so small that I believe that I could fill them with CA and they would be difficult to notice.

I believe your observations on DNA and wood reaction are the clue to what happened on my pen, especially since I poured DNA in the hole. There could be other reasons, but this is all that I have to go on for now.

 

[DocStram]

Cold enough that a bottle of water froze in your truck?? It's been a long time since I've lived in a place that cold. Down here in Macon, we can hardly get cold water to come out of the tap.

Back to the snakewood .... this may sound crazy but, I wonder if it would help to drip mineral oil in the hole while drilling ... like after every 1/2 inch?

Or, in reference to the Russ' advice regarding the importance of keeping oils in the SW .... would it be a bad idea, after drilling the hole, to soak the SW blank in a small bottle of mineral oil before turning it?

I have about 10 SW blanks that I've had sitting in my shop for the past year. I'm ready to try them.

 

[LEAP]

Just thinking with the keyboard here, but has anyone tried drilling a very small hole first then using a progression of drill bits to drill the blank? I had some cross cut cocobolo the was only 5/8" square it drilled ok, turned and finished nice on a couple of slimlines but the day after it was covered in small cracks. I figured 1 it was too wet and 2 I got it too hot either when drilling or sanding. If anyone has tried drilling in stages like this what was your result? did it help?

 

[wdcav1952]

Originally posted by LEAP
<br />Just thinking with the keyboard here, but has anyone tried drilling a very small hole first then using a progression of drill bits to drill the blank? I had some cross cut cocobolo the was only 5/8" square it drilled ok, turned and finished nice on a couple of slimlines but the day after it was covered in small cracks. I figured 1 it was too wet and 2 I got it too hot either when drilling or sanding. If anyone has tried drilling in stages like this what was your result? did it help?

Phil,

To some extent that is what oral surgeons do when placing implants. Overheating living bone is definitely a potential problem as you might suspect. You may want to drip a little K1 in the hole while drilling to preserve the oils of the wood and cool the drill.

BTW, the oral surgeons use sterile saline rather than K1 in the mouth. []

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

Can snakewood be stabalized?

 

[Rudy Vey]

Originally posted by Blind_Squirrel
<br />Can snakewood be stabalized?

I was told it cannot!! Steve White of River Ridge Products let me know that the wood is so dense that it will not adsorb any resin. He weighed my blanks before and after the resin treatment and there was no weigh gain, which normally indicates it is filled with resin and, therefore, stabilized. I have not tried to turn the blanks, yet.
But I had one of Derrick's blanks made into a Baron (somewhere around April/May last year and used it daily)and when I gave it away in December to a friend from Germany, it was still fine - not a crack.

 

[redfishsc]

I have not bothered with snakewood because of things like being said above, but I do have a good experience in drilling wood and not generating a lot of heat. I also tend to be quite patient with my wood selection-- I let them sit at room conditions for quite a while before turning them. I tend to have a two to three month lag between buying wood and using it--- I'm just backlogged, lol.


I drill lignum, ebony, blackwood, cocobolo, and other oily crack-prone woods on the lathe with the Beall collet-- wood pre-rounded to 3/4". I do this with PR/acrylics as well. Can also be done with a jaw chuck with pin jaws.


Here is the process, feel free to comment if you see something I could do better, but this has worked for me.


1) I first use a Colt 5-star brad point-- 7mm size (which is my slimline bit as well)--- ANY good brand brad point will work. This is the "pilot" hole and I use a brad point since it will not wander and dance around the face of the blank when first entering it. I drill 1/8" at a time and put a few drops of mineral spirits or kerosene on the bit EVERY time I back it out. I also drill around 1,000 rpm-- slower speeds seem to cause more tearing than cutting, faster speeds generate more heat than I want.


2) Next drill will be a standard 118* Harbor Freight bit (ie, any bit other than a brad point). If the bit you need is only 1/8 or so bigger than the 7mm, I go right to that one. If I'm drilling a huge hole, I'll use a middle-road size bit. I drill at the same speed and still use kerosene or spirits, but I drill slower but don't bother backing the bit out very much since I'm removing less wood, and the lube helps purge it. Use caution on the exit from the back, go slowly. Also be careful b/c the second and/or third drilling will tend to "suck" the drill bit into the blank, so tap your drill chuck firmly into the taper and advance the bit slowly. You'll get a feel for it..

3) If the above step was a middle-road, I repeat step two with the final bit size.

4) Let the blanks air-dry overnight or something if using a polyurethane glue or eopoxy. If using CA, I just let them dry for an hour or so and glue them right up, the CA doesn't seem to care if there's some residual spirits or kerosene. You can also swab the blank out with a rolled-up paper towel or Q-tip dipped in lacquer thinner or acetone, both of which dry almost instantly.




I guess if I were to make a pen with snakewood, I'd drill the hole just a fuzz larger than I would normally need and I would glue it up with that rubberized CA. I'd also let the drilled blank sit for a couple days or weeks.



And at $10 a blank and with all the time I'm spending in the seminary and my cabinetry job, I probably won't be turning many snakewood blanks.

 

[Tuba707]

What about using WD40?

 

[its_virgil]

If heat from drilling is what causes snakewood to crack then why doesn't it crack while we drill it. I've drilled it so fast the bit smoked and no cracks. Never a crack when drilling.I just don't believe that heat is what causes snakewood to crack....I could very well be wrong and I'm ducking now.[]

Do this: Drill a piece of snakewood and let it sit for a few weeks. The hole will change size and the tube will not fit. It is shirnking as it dries. Open the hole (I use a rat tail file) until the tube will slide in and leave it sitting for another few weeks. The blank will shrink a little more. Keep doing this until the blank does not shrink and the tube will still slip in after a few weeks. I know, we don't like to wait, but...

Now, slide in the tube but do not glue and turn it to almost finished diameter. Yes, you can turn a blank without gluing in the tube. Let it sit for another few weeks and check. If no shrinkage then glue in the tube and make the pen. Seal the ends with CA. Sand the pen parts a little so they press in a little easier and cause very little expansion of the tube. Use a drop of CA to hold them in. Assemble the pen. Chances are good that after all of this work and time, the snakewood will still crack.

I still say: Drill and glue in the tube. Turn the blank to almost the final size and let it crack Repair the crack(s) and assemble. If you repair the cracks with CA and sanding dust (from the SW) slurry, then the repaired cracks will be barely noticeable. I still think a cracked and repaired figured snakewood pen is better looking than any other wood we use for pens. These thoughts are mine but a few others share them with me. I'm still ducking...[]

Now go make one of those beautful snakewood pens.

Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[DocStram]

OK, Don ....... now that's what I call "Reality Rub-In"! The SW IS going to crack. That's the reality of it. I've been sitting on six pieces of SW for the past year. I've been hesitant to do anything with them in fear of them cracking. But, no more! YOU Brother Don, have given me the courage to go forth .... turn those SW blanks ... let 'em crack ..... repair those cracks and get on with my life!

Let me just double check with you .....
....as I turn and sand the SW I keep collecting the shavings and sawdust.

.... I set them aside for a couple of weeks and watch them crack

.... then I take thin ca ..... drip it along the cracks .... and mix in SW sawdust along the cracks and in with the ca.

..... let it dry .... sand ... and assemble the pen.

Am I on the right track??

 

[its_virgil]

Yes, you are on track pretty close. You will have enough dust with the final sanding that you won't need to collect it until you do the final sanding. Collect it on the sandpaper and dizzle on thin and let it pick up the dust. The dust and CA will form a slurry which you can spread on the blank and it will get into the crack(s). I do this on all open grained woods...fill the open grain with a CA/sanding dust slurry. There are some pictures of this in my CA finish instructions. I do hope this makes some kind of sense and if not, we'll try again. Good luck. SW makes great looking pens.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by DocStram
<br />OK, Don ....... now that's what I call "Reality Rub-In"! The SW IS going to crack. That's the reality of it. I've been sitting on six pieces of SW for the past year. I've been hesitant to do anything with them in fear of them cracking. But, no more! YOU Brother Don, have given me the courage to go forth .... turn those SW blanks ... let 'em crack ..... repair those cracks and get on with my life!

Let me just double check with you .....
....as I turn and sand the SW I keep collecting the shavings and sawdust.

.... I set them aside for a couple of weeks and watch them crack

.... then I take thin ca ..... drip it along the cracks .... and mix in SW sawdust along the cracks and in with the ca.

..... let it dry .... sand ... and assemble the pen.

Am I on the right track??

 

[its_virgil]

Someone here was selling snakewood blanks awhile back and claiming they would not crack...almost guaranteeing that they would not crack. I wonder if anyone who purchased any of these blanks have any reports to offer. I would be interested to know how they are doing. Don't be shy...speak up.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

 

[huntersilver]

I turned a few snakewood pens last year, and still no cracks.

I drilled very slowly and used smalll amounts of water during drilling. It seems to me this maybe the reason I did not
get any cracks.

 

[leehljp]

I bought those and I have had two out of 3 crack. I am thinking that you might be correct in the blanks shrinking. For those of us with Lettered, Numbered, Metric, Fractional sized bits, I wonder if it would be good to go up a .1 mm (point 1) in drilling and let the blank set for a few weeks and see how that does?

 

[its_virgil]

Thanks Hank for the report. I suppose others have had similar results. If snakewood is too dense or whatever to be stabilized I don't understand how treting it with any other product would do any good. What you suggest may be ok but I think it will take more than just one "shrinking" to do the trick. I've had a blank go through 4 cycles of shrinking and enlarging the drilled hole...each cycle was 6 weeks and the thing still cracked. I think we are spinning our wheels trying to keep snakewood from cracking. Even Omas, who makes a snakewood pen, has problems with them cracking. But I suppose it is fun to try to find a way or procedure to stop, slow, or reduce the cracking.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by leehljp
<br />I bought those and I have had two out of 3 crack. I am thinking that you might be correct in the blanks shrinking. For those of us with Lettered, Numbered, Metric, Fractional sized bits, I wonder if it would be good to go up a .1 mm (point 1) in drilling and let the blank set for a few weeks and see how that does?

 

[JimGo]

Six weeks at a go? You retired guys have way too much time on your hands!

(my turn to duck and run!)

 

[its_virgil]

No! No! I did these while I was still teaching. Each time grades were sent home (every six weeks) I would get the blanks and check them. I started in August and assembles the pens in during spring break the next march. It was really hard to look at those blanks sitting above the lathe and not turn them...I'm not very patient when it comes to pens. I rarely have a set of tubes glued that don't get turned the same day. I know some of you guys/gals have several sets of blanks drill and glued for all pen kits and just go in and pick something to turn. I have a friend who has 10 sets of almost every kit just waiting to be turned. I wouldn't sleep for days if I did that. []

Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by JimGo
<br />Six weeks at a go? You retired guys have way too much time on your hands!

(my turn to duck and run!)

 

[DocStram]

Geeezeee Don .... I had forgotten all about those photos in your article. Thanks for the reminder.
One other question (this is off track of the thread, but since I started it I'm certain I won't mind) ..... I saw an 8 sided pen in your album. Did you do that with a Legacy? .... a Router Crafter??? ..... by hand???
Just curious.

 

[PenWorks]

Lets see if I can remember what it is called.....
mill lathe, the same defunk machine Rich uses.
I think Woodcraft use to sell this machine.

 

[its_virgil]

Good Anthony! You got it right this time! Yes Al, it was done on a now discontinued stand alone tool called the MillLathe whick uses a
foredom tool for the cutting. Woodcraft was the only outlet as far as I know. It was sold as the basic unit and then separate kits had to be purchased. I happen to have all of the pieces except one. I also do spirals with it. I need to get it back out and do some spirals and give Anthony a lesson on spiral pens[]. Here is a picture of the basic unit. One of these pops up ever once in a while. Someone here was trying to sell a complete setup back last spring.
Do a good turn daily!
Don

Originally posted by PenWorks
<br />Lets see if I can remember what it is called.....
mill lathe, the same defunk machine Rich uses.
I think Woodcraft use to sell this machine.

 

[JimGo]

Seems like the kind of thing Fred or Paul could make pretty easily, adapted for use with a Dremel or the like. Hey, are you guys listening? []

 

[Blind_Squirrel]

Originally posted by JimGo
<br />Seems like the kind of thing Fred or Paul could make pretty easily, adapted for use with a Dremel or the like. Hey, are you guys listening? []

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[DocStram]

A MillLathe by WC. That's going to be as hard to find as an old Sear's Router Crafter. I'm going to ask around. The Router Crafters often appear in ebay .... and sell for bigtime American Dollars.

 

[Tom McMillan]

I found that the old router crafters are now being made in England by a co. called Trend---I think it's now called the Trend Router Lathe. Woodchucker's could get them as I recall, and Craft Supplies UK had them.

 

[DCBluesman]

Unfortunately the Trend Machinery Routerlathe was discontinued about 3 years ago. []

 

[Tom McMillan]

Didn't know that Lou---guess I've been out of the loop for that for awhile. There was another product I think posted on this website that looked a lot like it--only a different name, so maybe it's gone on to someone else to either make, market or both.