Really odd Lucite incident - long

[latech15]

After seeing the pens turned out of lucite from pipe makers emporium I decided to try a few. I got two caramel ripple sticks and one clear stick.

I cut off some blanks for a cigar pen from the clear stick, drilled the blanks and painted both the inside of the tube and the brass ford motor company "engine blue". Let the paint dry and glued the brass inside the lucite. Trimmed the ends turned and sanded, buffed and removed from the mandrel.

I pressed the components in for the lower end and everything went fine. I (by hand) started pressing the lower piece into the upper blank and the brass tube slid out the top(clip end)! The glue bond broke.

I did not rough up the brass with sandpaper before I painted the tube and glued it in and I know that this probably would have made the brass stay in the blank, lesson learned.

I went ahead and pressed the components into the top piece and pushed the brass back into the blank. The components stayed and feel just as solid as any other pen I have made.

It wasn't until 3:00AM that I realized what I had seen..... the brass tube came out the top. Not the brass tube with the blue paint on it. It was shiny new brass. I guess that when I glued the tubes into the blank the paint on the brass sealed to the paint on the inside of the blank. It was like the brass just slid out of the paint.

The pen turned out great. There are a few flaws in the paint but all in all it is nearly perfect. I have been using it today and the clip does not feel loose or anything and the finish is crystal clear with very minor imperfections.

As I said, I used Testors model car paint from Hobby Lobby. Anyone know if the CA glue would have a reaction with the paint that would make it release from the brass or why this happened? It was not like the paint had scraped off in a section, it was like I was looking at a brand new brass rod that had never had any paint on it.

Weird!!!

 

[gerryr]

I believe that the consensus opinion is that CA will ruin most if not all paints. I only use epoxy to glue tubes when paint is involved and, so far at least, I haven't had an epoxy failure.

 

[ctwxlvr]

My experience with Testors is anything oily or have any chemical on it the paint will not bond, and the paint is flexible enough slide off of the tube with out damaging the paint.

 

[JimGo]

Next time, in addition to scuffing the tube, try wiping with DNA or Acetone (and let it dry!) before you apply the paint.

 

[ed4copies]

Recently, I have also been wiping with acetone before spray painting (my choice) the tube.

Seems to make the paint go on more evenly.

 

[latech15]

I don't know why but I assumed that that paint would be more durable.

I read where some people were having trouble when they painted the tubes or the hole that the paint was being scratched when they inserted the tube.

I would think that paintinting it on with a brush would yield a thicker coat and thus a more scratch resistant finish.

Ed - How do you spray the inside of the tubes, or do you?

What kind of epoxy are you guys using? do you mean the "mix the two parts and then apply" type of epoxy?

gerryr - That is what I was worried about...the ca disolving the paint. That didn't seem to happen though. Since the blank is clear you can see the paint on the inside and it appears to be in good shape.

I tend to agree with you guys that I should both scuff the brass and wipe down the brass before painting. I will try that.

Thanks,

 

[ed4copies]

Jeff,

Let me start by paraphrasing JimGo: I do not wish to be mistaken for having any knowledge.

I have tried LOTS of ways and I am not HAPPY with ANY!!!

Brush on made the paint too thick and not enough material left on the bigger pens, so the breakage was higher than I wanted - no good.

Spray on is not as thick - GOOD[][][] - Smears a LOT with CA - BAD[!][!][!] Not always visible on finished pen -GOOD[][] But sometimes can see several shades where the CA messed up the paint!!! -BAD[V][V][V]

You get the drift[|)][|)][|)][|)]

Still looking for a GOOD Answer.

 

[JimGo]

Ed, you turn plastics?

 

[ed4copies]

Heck no, Jim!!! But isn't that what you told me?????[][][][]

 

[gerryr]

The Lucite with ripples is an experience unto itself. The first stick of Caramel Ripple I bought I got one pen out of it that was acceptable and ruined the rest. Now I could probably 2 pens out it, maybe three. Then again, maybe only one. You have to hold your mouth just right when you paint it.[]

 

[Rifleman1776]

Thanks guys for all the reminders why I do only wood. []

 

[ed4copies]

Wood is good.

See Ed Davidson for the rest of this saying.

 

[Fred]

Try powder coating. I understand the finish is hard as glass... just my .02 worth of thought on that.

When you clean the brass tube be sure to NOT handle it with your bare hands, and then paint it. Be sure to let the paint cure a long time and then also coat it with a clear coat of spray paint. That way the CA will have to attack two layers and hopefully you can get it seated in the hole before any damage occurs.

I usually place the tube in the hole to a working depth, THEN apply thin CA which will 'wick' itself all the day to the other end. Then, milling the end cleans out the excess that gets inside the tube. []

 

[johncrane]

l etch primer /undercoat the tubes before painting them' then dry with heat lamp and use a 2 pack glue a warning here with some brands of 2pack glues there can be a reaction to uv rays/sun light Why l have a statesman that l done in a clear celluloid blank that is showing some small spots off yellowing this is the first one l have had problems with thank god l still have the pen another one too play with/pull apart it has never been in the direct sun light or extreme heat. so another[?][?][?]

 

[latech15]

gerryr - what type of problems did you have with the lucite? I ws thinking I could get at least three maybe three regulars and a sierra out of a stick.

This was only my second non-wood pen and it turned fine. It actually felt like it was a little harder than the celluloid blank that I turned recently, but I had no problems with it.

I contacted andrea yesterday about getting some custom colors in the lucite sticks. Would any of you be interested in a group buy of clear sticks with either blue, red, gold, purple, orange ripples?


She is checking with her supplier to see if they can even do other colors in the clear sticks.

let me know

 

[Mikey]

I just use Rust-Oleum spray, either primer or colors and enver had a problem with paint adhering. Now the Lucite drilling, that's another problem. I think I may have hat problem licked though as I have new drill bits, a warmer garage, and a dropper tube to drip water into the tube as I drill.

 

[gerryr]

I have never experienced any problems turning Lucite. The problems were all related to what it looked like after it was finished and whether I was satisfied with how it looked. I tend to be a perfectionist about that so your experience may be different. I have some completed barrels that could be acceptable to customers but they aren't acceptable to me, so they will probably never get hardware attached.

Depending on what Andrea says, I might be interested in some other colors. Bear in mind, that casting this stuff is not an exact science and some sticks can have a boatload of swirls and others can have almost none.

 

[latech15]

Gerryr

I would love to find out how they casts the stuff with the swirls in it. Do you know how that is done?

 

[gerryr]

I have no clue and actually talked to CSUSA about it once and was told their supplier wouldn't tell them.

 

[gerryr]

Something you might find useful, is this article by Jay Pickens, http://www.penmakersguild.com/articles/ribbonprocess.pdf . The process for making the Lucite ripple blanks may be similar to this. I suspect that with a bit of thought and experimentation you could adapt Jay's technique and come up with something close in PR. The ripples in the Lucite blanks are basically ribbons.

 

[latech15]

After studying that write up and taking another look at my blanks I have an idea.


The clear lucite blanks look like they have a white ribbon running through it. It looks like there may be 4 layers. I don't think that it was done like that ones in the link bosted above (cut into ribbons and layed in vertically) But rather a couple of large layers layed across the entire casting. I also think you could use white vinyl sheeting or ever a white garbage bag instead of making up your own ribbon material.

I grew up in farming counrty and have remember seeing the poly pipe that they use for irrigation. It is basically long roll of pvc or vinyl pipe that is flat until the water is pumped into it. Farmers just walk along and poke holes in it where they want the water to come out. I think you could cut up some pieces of that material for the ribbons.

I have never cast anything so tell me if my logic is flawed.

Step 1:

pour a small amount of clear PR in a dish - approximately 1/8 - 1/4 deep.

Step 2:

lay a piece of white vinyl sheeting over the PR.

Step three:

repeat steps 1 and 2 until it is approxiamtely 1" deep.

Step 4:

take a tongue depressor and dip it into the mixture and swirl, fold, wrinkle, generally mess up the vinyl so that it creates a swirling pattern as seen in celluloid blanks.

Step 5:

Vacuum to remove air bubbles

Step 6:

Add Pressure to cast.

Would this work? If so then you could buy vinyl in whatever colors you like or add color to the PR and make your own celluloid blanks.

I do not have a vacuum/pressure setup so I can't try this myself. But if you experts think it is worth a try I would get myself set up to make this stuff.