Questions on bullet pens

[Joe Melton]

I've read, I think, all of the postings about bullet pens and have some questions.

1. What weight of bullet should be used? I've seen these in weight of 75 grains and up, with common sizes in the 155 grain range.

2. Some turners use bullets and others use the nibs from the kits. If using the supplied nib, how does one determine beforehand what diameter the brass is where it will fit against the nib? I guess an ancillary question would be "what kit should be used with what caliber of brass?"

3. I see in Don Ward's excellent tutorial that he uses a hollow-point bullet and uses the hollow to locate his drill. Why can't the bullet be drilled from the other end in a lathe? This would be more accurate, I'd think, and also would allow the use of "un-hollow-point" bullets, which cost less.

4. How does one measure to assure the bullet is pressed the correct distance into the brass, after the bullet is drilled? Since the transmission is pressed in first, is the bullet then pressed in in increments, while testing with the ballpoint cartridge installed, until the tip sticks out the correct amount? I'm used to pressing the transmission in in increments, because the mark on it is not always accurate enough.

5. Do new brass always come without a primer?

6. Will a 308 bullet fit a 30-06 brass?

7. I see that some bullets come in a "boat-tail" design. Are those better or worse for our use than those with straight sides?

Sorry if these questions are stupid. And, thanks for helping.
Joe

 

[ed4copies]

Joe,
You're a man of few words-18 posts in a year?????

While I am not an expert, I have done a dozen or so-all using nibs. Slimline and perfect fit (very different diameters.

All my calculations start with a dial caliper and end with trial and error.

All the "brass" I have purchased did come without a primer - it was so noted on the "bag" it came in.

Regarding bullets, soon you should hear from those who have tried this technique.

 

[mrcook4570]

1) Any would work, assuming it is of the correct caliber

2) Slimline nibs work well for the various 30 caliber cartridges, euros for 33 caliber cartridges, and cigars for 45 caliber cartridges.

3) Dunno for sure, but hollow point would certainly center the drill bit on the visible end. Besides, bulk (generic) hollow points are relatively inexpensive

4) Tranny is pressed in last

5) Depends on whether you buy primed or unprimed brass

6) yes

7) Boat tails decrease drag (in flight) and thus retain downrange velocity better than flat base designs. Don't think it would make much difference unless you plan on making a dual (duel) purpose pen [] Most flat bases are chamferred slightly to allow for easier seating.

 

[bonefish]

I'll try to help. I haven't made many of them, but I spent a lot of time trying this and that. There are many different ways of doing it, and this is my method.

First, you need to decide which kit to use and whether you are going to use the supplied nib or a bullet.

I have only used the slim line kit.

If you are using the bullet, the caliber would partially determine the weight. For a .30 caliber, I would go with a 168 grain Boat Tail Hollowpoint, and yes, a .30-06 and .308 bullet is the same. You need a sharp pointed bullet. Some bullets, made for different purposes are flat point. You could use one of those, but it would look funny.

You could also use a Full Metal Jacket, like the military bullets, if you can find some, but you would have to start the drill from the rear.

The reason I suggest the hollow point of FMJ is because I don't like the appearence of the pen tip sticking out of the lead tip.

Next, put the bullet in a lathe, and using a file, file down the boat tail until the brass tube will go a little ways onto the taper. Not all the way to the body of the bullet, but just enough to be able to align the brass tube with the base of the bullet, and some space to apply the epoxy. DO NOT let any epoxy get on the body of the bullet. Use plenty at the junction of the tube and bullet, but don't let it build up above the diameter of the bullet.

Again using your lathe, use the headstock and tailstock to hold the tube and bullet. This assures alignment. Glue the tube to the bullet. I suggest epoxy, J.B. Weld, the 24 hour kind, holding one of them in the headstock and the other in the tailstock.

Ed is correct about the drilling, but on a lathe you can do it either way. It is best to use a drill size that will fit the writing end of the insert. Reverse the bullet in the lathe, and from the rear, drill a hole large enough to clear the body of the insert. I use the supplied nib to find the correct depth of the hole, and the size of the drill. Try the insert, making sure that the point sticks out the correct amount. If not, you probably need to drill the large hole deeper, or larger, if the body of the insert won't fit.

A .308 case is the ideal length for the slimline kit. The primer end will have to be drilled out for brass tube to pass through. Try to get as tight a fit as possible, but still allow the tube to go in.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO NOT TRY TO DRILL OUT A LIVE PRIMER. Most new cases come unprimed, but I have seen a few that came pre primed. Don't use these.

It is best to use a new, unfired case because the case mouth is the correct size to hold the bullet securely. If you use a fired case, the bullet is a loose fit in the neck and you will need someone to re-size the neck back to it's original dimensions, or the case to won't hold the bullet securely.

After the glue on the bullet is dried, apply more epoxy to the joint of the tube and the bullet base. You want this joint to be strong. Apply more epoxy to the other end of the brass tube, where it goes through the hole you drilled in the primer pocket. That is the reason for a tight fit, so that the tube is aligned from the base of the bullet to the rear of the cartridge case.

Seat the bullet into the case to a depth of about about 1/4 inch from the start of the taper for the boat tail. You might find this to be difficult. The bullet is much more difficult to insert than inserting the convential nib. If you know someone who handloads, you might be able to get him or her to do it for you.

The tube will stick out of the base of the case. How much depends on how deep the bullet is seated. Let the glue dry.

Trim the tube flush with the cartridge case head. Barely start the twist mechanism into the brass tube. Install the refill (insert). Adjust the depth of the twist mechanism so that the point of the insert sticks out the bullet the desired amount. If you go too deep, you probably won't be able to pull it back out. This is the voice of experience, so go slowly, checking frequently.

This is where the trial and error comes in. The more trial, the less chance of an error.

Now, you are ready to make the cap end, in the normal manner except the diameter of the cap needs to be the same diameter as the cartridge case head.

If you will notice, the top will be shorter than the top on a pen made the convential way, This is because the center band is not used. Therefore, you can make the cap a bit longer, the length the top would be if the center band were used.

This turned out to be longer that I thought it would be.

Making the pen using the supplied nib is a little different. If you want to know how to do that, let me know and I will explain how to do it.

Hope this helps. Any questions, don't hesitate to ask. I am not an expert by any means, but I know how to do it. Remember, this is the design I prefer, and the method I use to make it. Other posters make different designs, using different kits and methods, so take your pick. If you will do a search, you can find some pictures of some of the cartridge pens I have made.

Bonefish

 

[laspringer]

Joe,
I use the bullet for the nib on all of my cartridge pens.
This works for me, drill the back of the bullet out
until you come to the lead, on a drill press or the lathe
what ever you fill ok with. With a pair of pliers hold the bullet
and apply some heat (I use a propane torch) and the lead will run out.
The bullet will look dull but it will buff out. With bullets as the nib you can make any size of cartridge pen you want. I sell a lot of 223 cartridge pens.
Good luck
Alan