Questions about dead centers

[medemt]

I am so new to turning that I have not opened the box my lathe came in. I am the type of person that does a lot of research on things before jumping in. My questions concern some of the posts I've read about dead centers vs. mandrels.
1. Are dead centers used only during the finishing process or are they used during turning also?
2. If used during turning, and you are a beginner, how do you keep the diamaters consistent when only one half is on the lathe?
3. Is there a video or other visual product that shows this turning being done?
I do enjoy reading the posts and look forward to getting my shop up and running soon. Thank you in advance for any info on this.

Dan

 

[C. Scott]

Welcome to the best penturning info site on the web!

1. Dead centers CAN be used in the turning process, but not very often. They are used by some in the application of a CA finish. Most use the mandrel method.

2. Easy, use the bushings for the kit you are making. I always turn one barrel at a time. Less mandrel deflection that way.

3. Ed Davidson and I believe Russ Fairfield both sell videos. You can't go wrong with either, both are premier pen artists. Check the links section of this site for their websites.

Lastly, welcome to penturning.

 

[Texatdurango]

Dan, Welcome aboard, you will soon learn that there are dozens of ways to turn, especially using dead centers rather than mandrels. The way I use them might give you some food for thought. Others have different techniques, listen to everyone then find a method that you are comfy with.

1. Are dead centers used only during the finishing process or are they used during turning also?

I use dead centers for turning and finishing both. At the left of this post you will see a link to visit my photos. The photo shows how I turn a blank using bushings and two centers. When the blank is turned down to bushing diameter, I remove the bushings and mount the blank itself between the two centers and finish. I find that this works fine for me as I can quickly remove the blank and check diameters with calipers sand the blank without getting metal particles in the wood and when applying a CA finish, I don't get glue on anything but the blank.


2. If used during turning, and you are a beginner, how do you keep the diameters consistent when only one half is on the lathe?

The bushings dictate the diameters regardless of whether you have one or both blanks on the lathe at a time. You'll see this the first time you get ready to turn a blank. My opinion is that I get a much truer turning than with a mandrel.

3. Is there a video or other visual product that shows this turning being done?

I learned more about turning pens by watching Ed Davidson's (YoYoSpin) videos than any other sources combined. His website is www.yoyospin.com. Just watch how he holds his skew and play the videos over a few times and you'll be turning pens in no time.

Every town has a lumber yard. I would suggest going down, buying a pine 2x4, cutting it into 6†lengths, ripping into pen blank sizes and practicing until you think you have the hang of things. It sure beats buying a blank for a few dollars then screwing it up and getting frustrated. With the 2x4’s, you don’t screw up, you just make fire starters!

The most important thing is to have fun!

 

[Russianwolf]

Another thing that wasn't mentioned above that I love about turning between centers.

When you get a catch, it doesn't cause a disaster. The reason is the bushings will start to spin on the centers and minimize the damage. With a mandrel, the same catch can ruin you blank before you have a chance.

 

[medemt]

First off, thank each of you for your fast and thorough responses. This truely is an excellent site. With all the information here, I feel like a peewee football player in the NFL.

Texatdurango, I looked at the photo you referred to and it generated a question that I was attempting to ask in my original post. From the picture showing the turning, I can see the bushings on each side and uderstand that this would be my guide for the diameter on the eands. What I am having difficulty with is, what are the center making contact with. Do they contact the bushings which in turn contacts the tubes?

Since I have only watched people turn with the mandrel, the whole concept of how the blank is being supported when using the centers is what I have not fully grasped.

I can see the benefit of this method during the sanding and finishing processes.

I hope that makes sense, if not I will try again.

PS - The pens on your photo page are amazing!

Dan

 

[Rifleman1776]

You have received good advice. PSI offers a free video on pen turning. I suggest you peruse their catalog, pick out some items you think you might need then call and ask for suggestions for first pens. And ask for the video. But, most important of all, get that lathe operational. Set it up and do practice turnings on scrap wood. Have fun and learn how to use your tools.

 

[jhs494]

If you go to member tools and select member list then look up johnnycnc his pages shows some of his bushings and it may help you understand.
He sells bushings for between centers.

 

[Texatdurango]

Originally posted by medemt

First off, thank each of you for your fast and thorough responses. This truely is an excellent site. With all the information here, I feel like a peewee football player in the NFL.

Texatdurango, I looked at the photo you referred to and it generated a question that I was attempting to ask in my original post. From the picture showing the turning, I can see the bushings on each side and uderstand that this would be my guide for the diameter on the eands. What I am having difficulty with is, what are the center making contact with. Do they contact the bushings which in turn contacts the tubes?
You got it. The blanks have been drilled and the brass bushings inserted. The bushings are designed to fit snugly inside the brass tubes and the 60 degree centers fit nicely into the bushings which have a 60 degree hole in them.


Since I have only watched people turn with the mandrel, the whole concept of how the blank is being supported when using the centers is what I have not fully grasped.

I can see the benefit of this method during the sanding and finishing processes.

I hope that makes sense, if not I will try again.

PS - The pens on your photo page are amazing!

Dan

 

[Firefyter-emt]

The dead center will work (In my, and others opinion) much better than the mandrel any day. Any 7mm kit will require custom bushings, above is info for some great bushings made by Johnnycnc and that is great advice. You can make any pen kit over 7mm with the normal kit bushings, but the custom ones work much better as they are fine tuned.

You can also gently hold any blank without bushings to apply a CA finish and stop any stuck bushings, chipped CA ect.

My advice is to try the dead center and start off making cigar pens. The bushings you buy from the pen supplier can be used just as they are and the cigar pen while only being about $2.00 more is a major jump to a better pen. Buy extra tubes and practice with the spare tubes until you get a good "pen" and then put the pen togather. The cigar design is nuch more forgiving to the fit and finish of the hardware the way the pen is shaped and will hide "over or undersized" blanks better than a slimline in my opinion.

The dead center will spin the blank just fine and as others had said, it can even help with catches as the blank can be left loose enough to stop and not "blow out".

Give it a try first, you may find that you saved yourself some money and leap froged over a learning curve, never having problems with warped mandrels.

 

[johnnycnc]

Hi,Dan.Welcome to the group!
I think everyone has given good advice.
Get your lathe running first.
Let me say that turning a pen on a mandrel,
and turning a pen between centers are two very
different methods to arrive at the same destination.
Developing good turning skills apply no matter which
way you choose,though.Sharpening your tools,too.
I'll tell you my story,if I may.Sorry,long-winded.
I started with a mandrel set-up,and was thrilled at first
just to be making pens.
Then,my turning skills got a little better,and I started
to get picky about things.In particular,how the
wood fit to the hardware.(might as well do it right).
I noticed,sometimes no matter how I tried,I got wood
that was "out of round" in how it mated to the hardware.
I got some good pens off a mandrel.I also got some
poor results from a mandrel.Pretty discouraging.
I bought different mandrels,several mandrel holders,
new 60 degree live center to fit mandrel,even bought a
Beall collet chuck.
chucked mandrel short,tried turning one half at a time
on the short,stiffer mandrel.
Spent a bunch of money,still hit and miss results on
being out of round.Dangit!!
Ran across the concept of turning with no mandrel
here on IAP.Chuck one blank and bushings between
a dead center in headstock,live center in tailstock.
This would surely be better,right?,I mean no mandrel to wobble.
Well it worked better.For a while.Then I got a little
pickier about fit,trying to fine tune.What, still a little
out of round??!!ARGHHH!
I'm a machinist by trade,and probably expect a LOT more than
I should from a wood lathe and hand held cutting tools.but.
So,on closer investigation..I found,
the factory bushings don't always fit snug in tubes,and
they aren't always concentric from the shank to shoulder.
Don't fit well,not running true..=out of round?
Huh!imagine that for $3.99.(taiwan,quality control?)
Duh,(I said to myself),freakin' make your own.
So I did,after almost losing my mind gaging and measuring.
And the results were what I was after.
I do my part,between centers does it's job.
Nice 60 degree drive centers to align and solid,no flex.
Is between centers a silver bullet?
NO, but for ME,it is light years ahead of a mandrel.

My mandrels and Beall chuck sit unloved,along with
all those factory bushings.

If I had starting pens to do over,I would go for a
dead and live center,using the factory bushings between
centers.That will get you going for cheap.
Give it a whirl,you'll never have to suffer
the warped mandrel blues.And that is a good thing.

Dan,I notice you are a fellow Hoosier.[8D]
I work in Indy,NE side.If you ever want some
turning company on a Saturday afternoon,I'd be
glad to bring some centers and my bushings and help
get you up and running.

 

[ldb2000]

Welcome Dan
I think you just learned the most important thing .... the people on here are the greatest ... the IAP ROCKS !!!!

 

[DozerMite]

Hey John, I'm a Hoosier, I sometimes like company on Saturday's. Would you like to bring some centers & bushings and show me the art of turning between centers?[8)] I've been wanting to try it.

 

[johnnycnc]

You got it,pm me and we can figure out when.[8D]
I usually leave Indy at noon,most Saturdays.

Originally posted by DozerMite

Hey John, I'm a Hoosier, I sometimes like company on Saturday's. Would you like to bring some centers & bushings and show me the art of turning between centers?[8)] I've been wanting to try it.

 

[leehljp]

Johnnycnc, FireFyter and Texatdurango all state exactly my feelings on this too. AND I have to thank FRANK for actually pushing me into this with a post last spring. I don't remember who he credited with the idea and it could have been one of the first three mentioned. I do appreciate the idea.

I too purchased a Beall complete with a 5/16 size. I have threatened to use it just to use it, but I keep it simple and stay with center drives and bushings for turning and without the bushings for finishing.

 

[medemt]

Again, I want to thank everyone for their excellent replies and helpful information. As ldb2000 said, the people here seem to be the greatest. I will take all the advise and give it a try. I'm getting more excited by the minute.

Johnnycnc, excellent reply. I like lots of info. By the way, I will take you up on the offer in the future. I am in the process of building a new 500 sq/ft shop (900 if I use the storage area) and then I will be able to really get to turning. I live on the west side of Indy (Avon, IN). I have family on the N.E. side. Wouldn't mind coming to visit you in your shop.

I don't know if it is available on this site, but it would be nice to have a place that listed members by location. Might by fun to have some local get togethers, or maybe some would be interested in a club, etc. just thinking out loud.

In any event, thnnks again and I look forward to learning from all you.

Dan