Question for Epoxy users out there...

[wiset1]

Okay, so I'm looking to try something a little different with a pen design and I'm told that Epoxy may be a better option than CA to lock the materials together...not really the issue here, but this is....

Q: What happens if you use accelerator on epoxy? Will it react the same as CA and cure faster or do you just have to wait the 5 minutes and then 24 hours to complete the drying cycle?

I've never used Epoxy so this is a virgin question

 

[KBs Pensnmore]

Okay, so I'm looking to try something a little different with a pen design and I'm told that Epoxy may be a better option than CA to lock the materials together...not really the issue here, but this is....

Q: What happens if you use accelerator on epoxy? Will it react the same as CA and cure faster or do you just have to wait the 5 minutes and then 24 hours to complete the drying cycle?

I've never used Epoxy so this is a virgin question

Hi Tim,
To the best of my knowledge using an accelerator will not make Epoxy work any faster, it could even be a problem to it, weakening,crazing etc.
The 5 minutes is working time ie. you have up to 5 minutes assembly time. Full strength is obtained after 24hrs, you can work with it after about 15minutes but I wouldn't try to turn until after the 24 hrs.
Kryn

 

[wiset1]

I figured as much...just thought I would ask prior to doing something stupid.

 

[GaTurner83]

I use epoxy for all my pen work now.I used CA for awhile but was getting to many blow ups.I use Loctite 5 min epoxy.Keep in mind that the colder the temp is the slower it cures.As said before 5 min is working time then has to set for awhile before using.Epoxy requires heat to set up.The warmer it is the faster it will set.I glue all my tubes in and place my blanks under a heat lamp about 6-8 inches above the blanks.Ill leave them there for about 15 minutes and they will be ready to turn.Havent had a blow up since I started using this method.

 

[randywa]

The easiest way speed up the epoxy is forget to make sure a painted tube will still fit. By the time I pick up a brush and run it through the hole, the epoxy has pretty much set up.

 

[Ulises Victoria]

I have been using Gorilla glue to glue my tubes. I like the fact that it expands. This is great for filling gaps or fixing loose tubes. I usually prepare my tube/blank fixture, go to lunch, and when back they are ready to work on.

 

[SDB777]

I figured as much...just thought I would ask prior to doing something stupid.

I do a LOT of studip things...but I tend to try to 'butter-coat' it by saying it was an experiment


Scott (wife says I'm just plain silly) B

 

[pensbydesign]

been using 5 min epoxy for a wile a do turn in about a hour, will wait 24 hr if i glued uo segments together. if your going to wait 24 hours why not just use the over night cure longer the cure stronger the bond.

 

[nativewooder]

Also keep in mind that there are many varieties of epoxy glue. That is what was used to glue the tiles on the shuttles. That variety is quite expensive compared to what we use on pens and it takes a week to fully cure.

 

[PTsideshow]

The answer is no you can't.

Epoxy resins typically require a precise mix of two components which form a third chemical. Depending on the properties required, the ratio may be anything from 1:1 or over 10:1, but in every case they must be mixed exactly. The final product is then a precise thermo-setting plastic. Until they are mixed the two elements are relatively inert, although the 'hardeners' tend to be more chemically active and should be protected from the atmosphere and moisture. The rate of the reaction can be changed by using different hardeners, which may change the nature of the final product, or by controlling the temperature.

again when using epoxy as an adhesive

As adhesives, epoxies bond in three ways: a) Mechanically, because the bonding surfaces are roughened; b) By proximity, because the cured resins are physically so close to the bonding surfaces that they are hard to separate; c) Ionically, because the epoxy resins form ionic bonds at an atomic level with the bonding surfaces. This last is substantially the strongest of the three. By contrast, polyester resins can only bond using the first two of these

Polyester resins are usually made available in a 'promoted' form, such that the progress of previously-mixed resins from liquid to solid is already underway, albeit very slowly. The only variable available to the user is to change the rate of this process using a catalyst, often Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone-Peroxide (MEKP), which is very toxic. The presence of the catalyst in the final product actually detracts from the desirable properties, so that small amounts of catalyst are preferable, so long as the hardening proceeds at an acceptable pace. The rate of cure of polyesters can therefore be controlled by the amount and type of catalyst as well as by the temperature.

And speaking of polyester resins, even though they and epoxy are similar(both are thermo-setting resins) they have enough distinct characteristics that they fall into two separate categories.

Polyester resins are typically low strength unless used with a reinforcing material like glass fiber, are relatively brittle unless reinforced, and have low adhesion. Epoxies, by contrast, are inherently strong, somewhat flexible and have excellent adhesion. However, polyester resins are much cheaper.

:clown:

 

[wiset1]

Good to know...I'll make sure the garage is open to vent and I'll wear gloves :biggrin:

 

[wiset1]

Okay...so here's another epoxy question...

I bought the System Three 5 Minute Epoxy, 1/2 Pint that uses a mix of part A and part B. Is this stuff different than the System Three T88 epoxy? I just want an epoxy that will dry clear and have a bond...will both do it?

 

[randywa]

I use the System 3 5 min stuff. It dries fast, clear bonds great, and it can be tinted.

 

[randywa]

I forgot to mention, someone who knows more than me said to get the best bond, mix equal parts by weight. For a 2 piece pen I use 2 grams of A and B.

 

[flyitfast]

Okay...so here's another epoxy question...

I bought the System Three 5 Minute Epoxy, 1/2 Pint that uses a mix of part A and part B. Is this stuff different than the System Three T88 epoxy? I just want an epoxy that will dry clear and have a bond...will both do it?

Stick with the System three 5 min. The T88 is an industrial mix and requires 24-36 hour cure. It also has a brownish tinge to it, versus clear like you are looking for. It does bond really good when it cures. It is really good if you are making handles for tools and want a very strong joint.
gordon

 

[wiset1]

Okay...so here's another epoxy question...

I bought the System Three 5 Minute Epoxy, 1/2 Pint that uses a mix of part A and part B. Is this stuff different than the System Three T88 epoxy? I just want an epoxy that will dry clear and have a bond...will both do it?

Stick with the System three 5 min. The T88 is an industrial mix and requires 24-36 hour cure. It also has a brownish tinge to it, versus clear like you are looking for. It does bond really good when it cures. It is really good if you are making handles for tools and want a very strong joint.
gordon

Exactly what I was looking for...Thanks Gordon

 

[scotian12]

Tim...I have been using the "Stick Fast" 5 minute epoxy from CSUSA for several years now and it has been quite good. I wait about 15-20 minutes for it to harden up and then I turn. Yes, it probably would be better to wait longer but I get impatient. Lately I have been using Lee Valley System Three Quick Cure 5 minute epoxy and am satisfied with its results. Color tint can be added to both epoxies. Darrell Eisner

 

[oneula]

there's all kinds of epoxies out there but try not use any kind of solvents when using epoxy especially airesol borne ones. DNA may be fine but acetone. styrene, xylene etc can lead to epoxy sensitization. Its happened to allot of folks in the surfboard manufacturing business and they cannot get anywhere near epoxy without experiencing life threatening effects. I've developed this because of carelessness and getting the stuff on my skin too many times glassing surfboards. So be careful and be sure and place a note "made with epoxy" on the product. I was recently advised to let my orthopedic surgeon know about my allergic sensitization before going in for knee surgery as epoxy is used on artificial joints and stuff these days. I hear its worse and quicker than dying from a bad silicone implant.

On the other hand I also believe CA produces Cyanide gas as an output as it cures so you need good air circulation or a face mask with a good organic filter. I use a 3M full face mask with either the 100 rated purple filter for dust mitigation or the organic cartridges for anything with fumes. A positive air pressure mask or air filter device is also a good option if you in an enclosed area like a basement.

not sure what kind of bond CA creates but epoxies create a mechanical bond so a roughed surface on both sides is critical.

as far as holding power, the metal tunnel brace in the boston chunnel that fell off and killed someone was installed using industrial epoxy glue but the joint was probably contaminated so be sure and don't contaminate the surfaces with alcohol or something similar which would affects the curing process and (mechanical) surface bond.

so far I only know of epoxy. CA and expanding PU glue as options for barrel installations be neat if someone came up with another less toxic alternative that didn't breakdown with heat like the others.