Question about engraving

[wahhjm]

Hello,

I'm really not sure where this should go, so I'm sorry if i put it in the wrong section.

I'm wanting to start up a small business. I'm young, pretty ambitious P) and i'm looking for something to do, and make some money while i'm at it.

Basically, what I'm wanting to do is engrave (laser?) small signs, pens, dog tags, etc. When I was in Bangkok, I bought a dog tag, in which I had a picture of me and my girlfriend lasered(?) on it. I've never seen something like that where I live, so I'm thinking it could be quite a hit. The machine looked a bit like this:

It was very small, and compact. No bigger than 40x40cm, if that. Basically, it was connected to a laptop by USB, the guy done something on a program that looked similar to photoshop, dragged out a dog tag shape on it, cropped the picture and stuck it on the dog tag shape and wrote on the other side. Sent it to the machine, and it was finished in not more than 3 minutes. It looked a really simple, easy process.

I'm basically wondering what kind of machines would do the job that I wanted to do? As they were scattered about in the shopping centres in Bangkok, with young guys/girls operating them, I'm sure they couldn't be too expensive at all. How much would I be looking at to pay?

Appreciate any help
thanks

 

[rjwolfe3]

Someone once told me to expect to pay at least $5000 for the cheapest laser engraver. I haven't gotten one yet for that reason but if you find one cheaper let me know.

 

[wahhjm]

Someone once told me to expect to pay at least $5000 for the cheapest laser engraver. I haven't gotten one yet for that reason but if you find one cheaper let me know.

Would they really be that expensive?

I really couldn't see youngish people in Bangkok (they were early 20s) being able to afford them if they were that much, no chance

Is it definately a laser engraver i'm talking about? Or could another machine do the jobs that I wanted?

Would a CO2 laser cutter do the job? 'Engrave' pictures onto metals and write on them, on pens (the metal part that is used to clip onto clothes or so?), small signs... etc.

They are under 1000$?


something like this:

 

[NI Joe]

You may also be thinking about something like a Metaza MPX-50/60/70/80 impact printer. It will do photo-like marking on metals and plastic. Just go over to eBay an do a search on Metaza MPX. You'll see prices from $150 for the Metaza MPX-50/60 used to $3K for the current MPX-80 model.

All the best, Joe

 

[wahhjm]

You may also be thinking about something like a Metaza MPX-50/60/70/80 impact printer. It will do photo-like marking on metals and plastic. Just go over to eBay an do a search on Metaza MPX. You'll see prices from $150 for the Metaza MPX-50/60 used to $3K for the current MPX-80 model.

All the best, Joe

It definately could be that. I asked my girlfriend to find out the name for me of the machine in Bangkok. She asked one guy (although different to the one I saw, and the machine was bigger), who said it was made by roland - so I'm guessing it could be that? Except, on the internet, I see roland machines are pretty expensive.

However, it does look a lot like the Metaza machines on ebay, but they are pretty expensive for me (on my budget!).

If it is anything to go by, when the machines I saw were getting used, they did make a pretty high pitched sound, not sure how I could describe it. Something like a normal printer for a pc, but of much higher pitch?

Thanks very much for the answers so far by the way.

 

[Pen Maker]

The Metaza printer is an Impact Printer, there is a mechanical stylus that scribes into the object itself. The quality is okay but you won't get the burnished etch that you will from the laser machines. Like the scogger that was a prize the other day.

The laser you show above is a chinese laser commonly referred to as a RABBITT machine. The one you picture is a parrallel port I/O model the best price I was quoted on it was 1,100.00 the worst was 1,400.00, both came out within a few dollars after shipping was included. FOB, Dallas Texas.

The parrallel port model uses only the mfg's software for artwork handling, the table on it is okay but it is also limited. It would be great for items 10 inches and smaller AND FLAT surfaced objects.

They also make a USB version with the same table dimensions, but the USB model will accept Corel print drivers. It will also handle a rotary 'table' to etch curved surfaces up to a little more than 165 degrees of rotation or there abouts. On both models the mirrors are Fixed on X/Y rails. The best price for the USB model was I believe 1,900.00. Be aware that BOTH models are water cooled 30 watt tubes.

 

[wahhjm]

The Metaza printer is an Impact Printer, there is a mechanical stylus that scribes into the object itself. The quality is okay but you won't get the burnished etch that you will from the laser machines. Like the scogger that was a prize the other day.

The laser you show above is a chinese laser commonly referred to as a RABBITT machine. The one you picture is a parrallel port I/O model the best price I was quoted on it was 1,100.00 the worst was 1,400.00, both came out within a few dollars after shipping was included. FOB, Dallas Texas.

The parrallel port model uses only the mfg's software for artwork handling, the table on it is okay but it is also limited. It would be great for items 10 inches and smaller AND FLAT surfaced objects.

They also make a USB version with the same table dimensions, but the USB model will accept Corel print drivers. It will also handle a rotary 'table' to etch curved surfaces up to a little more than 165 degrees of rotation or there abouts. On both models the mirrors are Fixed on X/Y rails. The best price for the USB model was I believe 1,900.00. Be aware that BOTH models are water cooled 30 watt tubes.

Thank you so much for this reply. I had to read it about 3 times just to get all that information in me - still trying as well

So basically, if i'm looking to do such things like engrave on dog tags (writing/pictures), signs, pens etc. that are flat surfaced, I would be looking at a good price of 1100$? Is this the 'best' machine I can get away with for doing the jobs I want? ie. the cheapest type of machine that will do what I want to do? If it is a cheap machine but does do the jobs, I have no problem going with that.

Would you be able to give me some brand names that I could look into on the internet?

Once again, I really appreciate the reply.
Thanks

ps. I noticed you said "Be aware that BOTH models are water cooled 30 watt tubes." I'm wondering what you mean by Be aware? Is water cooling a bad thing? Or does it have it's drawbacks?

Obviously i'm not the most knowledgable in this subject yet, please excuse my ignorance :frown:

 

[low_48]

I don't have any direct experience with the Chinese machines. I have read a lot of information about the machines described by Penmaker on a site called cnczone.com
Do a search there for low cost laser engravers. One post has over 900 replies. From what I read, the laser tubes will not last nearly as long as the USA machines. One guy said his tube lasted 4 months, others recieve a machine with a broken tube in it. Service and parts are other major issues. Some guys try to bypass this trouble by buying a replacement tube when they ordered the machine. Software still remains an issue, and when you get no customer support, it is nearly impossible to get the machine going. If you do decide that it is still worth a shot, register on cnczone, because some of the Chinese reps read that site, and there is a wealth of information. Personally, I would stay away. I bought a rebuilt Universal Laser from usedlasers.com and have been very happy. Cost me $9,000 with a rotary attachment.

 

[Pen Maker]

Would you be able to give me some brand names that I could look into on the internet?

I believe this is the site you would want to take a look at first.

http://www.mbkpinternational.com/

I'm wondering what you mean by Be aware? Is water cooling a bad thing? Or does it have it's drawbacks?

Water or air are the same where the tube is concerned. The problem with water is that it is one more thing you MUST BE CAREFULL with, spill your water source or disrupt it any longer than a few seconds at most and your tube will quickly destroy itself from the heat.

One guy said his tube lasted 4 months, others recieve a machine with a broken tube in it

Your tube will last it's rated life cycle, whatever your cutting or etching will effect that timing. If your etching steel (driving the tube at 100%) it won't last as long as it will if your etching wood at 40% due to your power settings and speed. Getting a broken tube in shipping is like any other fragile commodity regardless of where it's shipped from.

I make no bones about being the 'cheapskate', and I'm happy (so far) with my little chinese made machine. YMMV .

 

[ed4copies]

Hey Pen Maker,

Sure looks like more "substance" to me -- you're gonna ruin your reputation.

 

[wood-of-1kind]

Like the scogger that was a prize the other day.

Correction, it was a WOODCHUCK that was generously donated by Ken (bitshird).

 

[wahhjm]

I believe this is the site you would want to take a look at first.

http://www.mbkpinternational.com/

Thank you very much for that website, the one on there is 1600$. Is this around the normal price? I wouldn't mind buying 2nd hand if it would be cheaper than that.

Do you know of any other cheaper brands/websites?

Thanks again

 

[Pen Maker]

The website is for viewing the movies, some tutorials to take the majik (smoke and mirrors) out of buying one and setting it up yourself. I can't say getting it cheaper is the way to go. Most cheaper quotes usually have bloated shipping costs. 'At least that was my experience'. You need to take into consideration that these lasers are a fraction of the cost many, many others have paid for the very same capability. If you have to.... Google is your friend, choose your keywords carefully they are on that page you looked at. Other than that the famous auction site will have them from time to time, but would you really want one from there? Absolutely zero support in most cases. Best of luck no matter which way you head, now that you know a starting point. I'd still study it a bit!

 

[low_48]

Quote from Penmaker;
"Your tube will last it's rated life cycle, whatever your cutting or etching will effect that timing. If your etching steel (driving the tube at 100%) it won't last as long as it will if your etching wood at 40% due to your power settings and speed. Getting a broken tube in shipping is like any other fragile commodity regardless of where it's shipped from."

Etching steel? I'm pretty sure that lasers in this class will barely put a mark on steel. As far as broken tubes, yes it is a fragile commodity. That's why I like getting one from a local rep. He won't send me a broken machine in a cardboard box. It has been test fired at his shop, and delivered.

I found a quote on cnczone about Chinese laser life, from one of the Chinese engineers;

"This is the mail from the chinese about the laser tubes duration:
As to the laser tube's life, as we know there is gas in the laser tube, and
the gas will escape from the tube very slowly. For this reason, the power
of the laser decreases after three month no matter whether it is used or
not because of gas decreasing. There are some customers bought some laser
tubes on stock (no using), after two or three months the power decreased
too).Laser tube can not work after 6 or 7 months even user never use it."

 

[Pen Maker]

Maybe you missed the prize the other day. I'm sure Constant didn't do a one pass at 75% power & speed at 20. While you may certainly cut an paste any statement from any website you want. That is what it is a Statement moreover it is an opinion from a non verifiable source, it's not a proven Fact!

With respect to tubes, control boards, power supplies etc. ALL of them have second sources and there are probably more sources for them than the completed assembly itself.

This was a thread concerning cost effective engraving. It didn't appear to me to be a debate of Chinese vs. Local Mfg's. People who don't even want a laser are looking to know where the market on these currently is. I don't recommend any one vendor over the other.

I can only recommend one that meets your pocketbook. When I was looking in the beginning my inquiry's met with high-fa-looting, arogant reply's from SEVERAL vendor's. I imagine that won't last very long. Lot's of people ARE buying off shore machine's because of this and the lower prices.

Like I say, with what little experience I've had with mine. I can't find a bad comment to make on it. Hope this little bit of info helps someone!

 

[Bugware]

Metaza = Roland

http://www.metaza.com/

 

[low_48]

I'm just trying to add to the education of those considering laser engraving. I don't think an educated decision can be made without considering other's knowledge. I'm sure China is selling lots of their machines. I can't imagine that all the trouble reported by the users of these low end machines on CNCZONE is made up, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe those reports should be ignored, but I would sure appreciate knowing about them before I purchased a machine. I've run my Universal Laser Systems machine for 8 years, so I'm not a beginner at this. I would say that the skogger was hit with a laser marking material (such as Thermark or Cermark) before the laser work started. This results in more of an ink type mark, and not removal of steel. Hitting an uncoated piece of polished stainless steel with a laser is asking for a scattered beam and without several thousand watts of power, nothing will happen. Except maybe you will start marking the plexi cover of the machine as the beam reflects off the stainless.

 

[rjwolfe3]

Its a woodchuck not a skogger, lol.

 

[low_48]

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.
Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines.

Thanks Steve McCroskey!

 

[Pen Maker]

Well Sir, I agree with your first two statements wholeheartedly. Getting helpful information out to the members of THIS board is my only concern. I read two others but this one I try to make a contribution to since this one in particular is the one I have to race to catch up with the other fella's some I will, most I never will.

I took your advice and revisited the cnczone board and I did search a fair bit of searching for a second time just to make sure. There were some problems noted there and I would encourage others to do the same and make up their own opinions as to Quality issues.

I want to say in all fairness that I am not a big fan of spending money off shore, but, I am a big fan of saving money that could be positioned in other areas of daily expenses here at home. To that effect I should mention or better yet 'should have mentioned before' that epilog has introduced what most consider a low cost laser (10K) and with respect to other makers it surely is low cost as we all know. This one is the ZING model laser.

I don't own this laser in particular but I have read (what I consider) many unbiased favorable reports on this product. I also have seen (but can't recall where exactly) quotes for it at just under 8K brand new. Now that is a steal deal! Hopefully this one will create some competion for other makers to produce a lower cost machine. I see from the views that this is an unanswered market for a lot of folks!

Take into consideration also that should I have received an offer that was reachable to me, I too would be using a used laser American or otherwise. For right now though the little USB laser and Corel together at less than 23 hundred total with shipping is a good starting point for most of us here wanting to add etching capabilities for either wood, glass, or metals.

Do visit the other boards being mindful of where your reading, cnc discussions looked to me geared more for cutting materials and this is a whole nother laser type to achieve this capability and also give a look over at the creek and see what those woodworkers are saying as well.

low 48, your comments and opinions are as welcome here as any other member and you have good points of merit. You have 7 years and 8 months on me and there certainly is value there. I have no idea what material Constant used for beam diffusion but I do agree something was used. I only know that what was left was indeed an etch, it won't be coming off in my lifetime. Nice job he did wasn't it!

Its a woodchuck not a skogger, lol.

actually, it's a 'what ye got there' for our pals outside the BOX !!! and if you dangle it real slowly you can hypnotize 'em with it.