question about Cocobolo

[hotwire55]

I am a new wood turner and new to this forum. I am starting out with ink pens and the Slimline style in particular. Learning to turn with JohnnyCNC's bushings this morning and Cocobolo is my pen blank material, but having a problem with my sanding procedure. I am sanding through the grits up to 1500 and realize that I can't get rid of the horizontal white streaks in the cocobolo. I have no swirls where I sanded with the lathe running, but I can't seem to do away with the horizontal white streaks. Is this the nature of Cocobolo or am I doing something or is it my sanding procedure? I would really appreciate your help and will be happy to start posting some photo's when I do something that won't be laughed at. Thanks so much!

 

[keithbyrd]

I'm not sure about the horizontal white streaks. Is it sanding dust pressed into the grain? If so use an air compressor and blow it out. Also be sure you are cross sanding between grits also.

 

[hotwire55]

I'm not sure about the horizontal white streaks. Is it sanding dust pressed into the grain? If so use an air compressor and blow it out. Also be sure you are cross sanding between grits also.

I am cross sanding after each grit, and removing the dust, finally put some mineral sprits on a paper towel and removed the dust. The blank looks great except for these tiny .02mm streaks about 3 to 4 mm's long. Could it be something about the grain structure of the wood? Thanks for the reply!

 

[gbpens]

White streaks sounds like sanding dust in the pores of the wood. They can be blown out or wiped out with a lint free cloth. These will tend to disappear when enough finish is applied. Wear a mask when working with coocbolo. Many people are allergic to the dust. If you are, you will be sneezing.

 

[hotwire55]

White streaks sounds like sanding dust in the pores of the wood. They can be blown out or wiped out with a lint free cloth. These will tend to disappear when enough finish is applied. Wear a mask when working with coocbolo. Many people are allergic to the dust. If you are, you will be sneezing.

I have not tried compressed air yet, but will give it a try and let you know how it turns out. Yes, the first timed I turned Cocobolo, I sneezed my silly head off. So now I have a large Rigid brand canister vacuum with a 2.5" hose pulling air from around my pen blank and discharging it thru the wall to the outside of the building. I have a couple of 2 hp vacuums in the shop, but this canister vacuum setup on the mini lathe is getting most of my chips and keeping the air free of odor. Thanks again for the help!

 

[hotwire55]

White streaks sounds like sanding dust in the pores of the wood. They can be blown out or wiped out with a lint free cloth. These will tend to disappear when enough finish is applied. Wear a mask when working with coocbolo. Many people are allergic to the dust. If you are, you will be sneezing.

Many thanks to Keith and gbpens for the help! You guys are right, It is sanding dust. I used some compressed air, and that helped but a tooth brush & air pressure worked a little better. Can't seem to get all of it, but I will keep trying. Appreciate it so much! Bobby Moyers

 

[Chasper]

Do you mean horizontal to the way you are viewing the blank on the lathe? Or do you mean horizontal as in cross grain?
If you mean horizontal as in going around the turned blank (cross grain) then it is likely to be sand paper scratches that you can work out with enough hand sanding with the grain after each grit.
If the streaks are with the grain, try wiping with acetone instead of mineral spirits.
If the white streaks are not showing up until after you apply CA finish, it is moisture inside the wood.

 

[Lenny]

After sanding, prior to applying a CA finish (making an assumption here), wipe the blank down with CA accelerant.

As was mentioned be careful with Cocobolo. I developed an allergic reaction and can't risk using it anymore.

 

[hotwire55]

Do you mean horizontal to the way you are viewing the blank on the lathe? Or do you mean horizontal as in cross grain?
If you mean horizontal as in going around the turned blank (cross grain) then it is likely to be sand paper scratches that you can work out with enough hand sanding with the grain after each grit.
If the streaks are with the grain, try wiping with acetone instead of mineral spirits.
If the white streaks are not showing up until after you apply CA finish, it is moisture inside the wood.

I probably didn't know how to explain what I meant by horizontally, What I mean is: even after sanding lengthwise (that is with the grain ) instead of around the blank or crosswise. I realize know that it really is just sanding dust that I had gotten imbedded in the tiny depressions in the wood surface. I will try the Acetone instead of the mineral spirits. This is definitely a learning process! Thanks, Chasper! Bobby Moyers

 

[hotwire55]

After sanding, prior to applying a CA finish (making an assumption here), wipe the blank down with CA accelerant.

As was mentioned be careful with Cocobolo. I developed an allergic reaction and can't risk using it anymore.

I am learning a lot today. I just applied 5 coats of BLO and medium CA, but am not getting a glossy shine. Trying to figure it all out, but will take a little time.

I need to purchase some CA accelerant. Just trying now to learn how to do a good CA finish, so I'm sure I will be back on here requesting help! Thanks Lenny! Bobby Moyers

 

[Glenn McCullough]

I wouldnt kill myself tryingh to get a great shine with cocobolo, some pieces are so oily, it may never happen. I do not use CA on Cocobolo, I use Deft brush on lacquer. It dries fast, you can recoat after about 1/2 hour if it is applied thin enough. Three coats should do it, but it takes practice to get that right, too. If that doesnt work, I reserve myself that this piece will get sanded to 800 and wax is all it will get.

After sanding, prior to applying a CA finish (making an assumption here), wipe the blank down with CA accelerant.

As was mentioned be careful with Cocobolo. I developed an allergic reaction and can't risk using it anymore.

I am learning a lot today. I just applied 5 coats of BLO and medium CA, but am not getting a glossy shine. Trying to figure it all out, but will take a little time.

I need to purchase some CA accelerant. Just trying now to learn how to do a good CA finish, so I'm sure I will be back on here requesting help! Thanks Lenny! Bobby Moyers

 

[CharlesJohnson]

I think cocobolo is an oily wood.The acitone will help that too.Isn't that right folks?

Charles J

 

[Gilrock]

I've never used BLO so you could try just using CA and accelerant. Be careful with how you dispose of the towels/rags used with the BLO because some folks have had them spontaneously combust. I really didn't believe it was possible so I researched it after seeing the claim and found that it can happen.

Regarding CA finishes you might do 100 pens and still not be happy with the technique. I find almost every pen seems to take a different amount of work to get a finish I like. Also with wood that has deep grain or pores make sure you end up with a decent amount of thickness of CA or when you hit it with sandpaper the CA dust will gather up in the pores and then it seems like you gotta sand it all the way down to fix it.

You might want to read some of the responses I got when I did my first cocobolo pen because I was having some similar trouble:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/euro-cocobolo-88487/#post1306294

 

[hotwire55]

I think cocobolo is an oily wood.The acitone will help that too.Isn't that right folks?

Charles J

Thanks for the suggestion on Deft Laquer. I have used a lot of Deft Gloss in the spray can to finish my taxidermy plaques over the past few months. I have also used it on a few pens and it leaves a beautiful deep shine, but I became concerned that it might be a brittle finish, so wanted to give the CA a try. I have only made 6 or 7 pens and used Deft laquer on all of them up until today. Have also made a place to let the Deft coated finished blanks season for a few days before assembling. Just trying new things and learning! Thanks Charles! Bobby Moyers

 

[hotwire55]

I've never used BLO so you could try just using CA and accelerant. Be careful with how you dispose of the towels/rags used with the BLO because some folks have had them spontaneously combust. I really didn't believe it was possible so I researched it after seeing the claim and found that it can happen.

Regarding CA finishes you might do 100 pens and still not be happy with the technique. I find almost every pen seems to take a different amount of work to get a finish I like. Also with wood that has deep grain or pores make sure you end up with a decent amount of thickness of CA or when you hit it with sandpaper the CA dust will gather up in the pores and then it seems like you gotta sand it all the way down to fix it.

You might want to read some of the responses I got when I did my first cocobolo pen because I was having some similar trouble:
http://www.penturners.org/forum/f13/euro-cocobolo-88487/#post1306294

Thanks Gil, Cocobolo is really pretty wood! I actually sanded the Cocobolo blank I've been working with today to 1500 grit and polished with 3 applications of Hut Ultra Gloss on the lathe. It had a great shine, but I didn't think the pen would keep that gloss, so I am trying the CA finish hoping it will be a longer lasting finish. Appreciate it Gil! Bobby Moyers

 

[Holz Mechaniker]

I am cross sanding after each grit, and removing the dust, finally put some mineral sprits on a paper towel and removed the dust. The blank looks great except for these tiny .02mm streaks about 3 to 4 mm's long. Could it be something about the grain structure of the wood? Thanks for the reply!

Use acetone not mineral spirits. the Mineral spirits are possibly reacting to the natural oil in the Cocobolo. Once you have cleaned with Acetone, then you will have better success with CA. And be patient with the CA. too much heat will draw the oils out of the wood and give you issues

 

[hotwire55]

I am cross sanding after each grit, and removing the dust, finally put some mineral sprits on a paper towel and removed the dust. The blank looks great except for these tiny .02mm streaks about 3 to 4 mm's long. Could it be something about the grain structure of the wood? Thanks for the reply!

Use acetone not mineral spirits. the Mineral spirits are possibly reacting to the natural oil in the Cocobolo. Once you have cleaned with Acetone, then you will have better success with CA. And be patient with the CA. too much heat will draw the oils out of the wood and give you issues

I will use acetone and be careful to not generate too much heat when applying the CA. Thanks for the advice. Man it's been a rough day, but I'm learning a bunch! All you guys have been good to me. Thanks Holz!-------Bobby Moyers

 

[EricJS]

Bobby, you're getting a lot of great advice for CA & Cocobolo. My first CA finish was on a piece of Cocobolo. I later realized that Cocobolo is one of the most difficult woods to apply a CA finish to!

I'm glad to see you tackle it head on. Just keep practicing. After you've successfully finished Cocobolo, the rest will be a breeze.:biggrin:

 

[Rodnall]

The left over pieces of cocobolo make good bushings on the blank squaring jig for the sander

 

[Randy Simmons]

I will use acetone and be careful to not generate too much heat when applying the CA. Thanks for the advice. Man it's been a rough day, but I'm learning a bunch! All you guys have been good to me. Thanks Holz!-------Bobby Moyers

I would advise against using acetone on the raw wood. You can bleach out some parts of the grain (sometimes looks pretty, but only if you really know what you are doing) and can cause a CA finish to either not take to the wood, or bubble and disfigure later on as the acetone off gasses. I can tell you all about giving a CA finish, just send me a PM.

Randy

 

[hotwire55]

Bobby, you're getting a lot of great advice for CA & Cocobolo. My first CA finish was on a piece of Cocobolo. I later realized that Cocobolo is one of the most difficult woods to apply a CA finish to!

I'm glad to see you tackle it head on. Just keep practicing. After you've successfully finished Cocobolo, the rest will be a breeze.:biggrin:

Thanks for the encouragement! I think a CA finish looks good, I just don't have enough time with it to really know how I feel about it. Cocobolo is beautiful wood polished with Hut's plastic polish, but I'm certain it wouldn't be a very durable finish. As stated earlier I've tried a laquer finish and like it a lot, but the pen blanks need to set for a few days to allow the laquer to cure some before assembly. I'm learning as I go---- yesterday I forgot to disassemble my pen and apply a small amount of wax to the end of the tubes to prevent CA bonding to the bushings. I applied the BLO & CA directly to the finished tube without thinking about it. I finally got them apart without apparent damage to the pen blanks. Appreciate your comments! Thanks everyone!---------- Bobby Moyers

 

[Lenny]

(Johnny CNC) John at penturnersproducts sells eliminator bushings (they may be out of stock right now) that help eliminate that problem.

You mentioned you weren't getting a shine .... when applying the CA you are looking to build up a thickness that can then be sanded smooth with Micro Mesh (or buffing .... see the library for George's "buffing kicked up a notch") Only then will you see the shine come through. Maybe you knew that already ???
Some will say all you need is 4 or 5 coats, others say they do 20+ .... I say do the amount you need to build up so that after sanding with the MM you will be at the correct finished size for a good fit to the components. Easier said then done sometimes! :biggrin:

 

[Gilrock]

I bought several of the Delrin eliminator bushings and I find CA has no problem sticking to those as well. I ruined a finished piece trying to get them apart once. I was using a razor knife to try to score the CA where the bushing meets the barrel and while rotating it on the blade it slipped out of my hand and hit the garage floor and broke a piece off the edge.

 

[kooster]

Just a side note from another NuB. Lenny mentioned "allergic reaction". This comes in numerous forms but the critical one is respiratory. You mentioned using a shop vac for elimination of materials but, as I found out from info threads, you need to be more concerned with the tiny/minute dust particles that hang in the air, breathed in and cling to respiratory tissues. A mask is absolutely essential but, you may want to seriously consider purchasing a dust collection system of sorts. PSI has a small portable unit and I'm sure you could get advice from IAP members for other units. Chips and debris are a cleanup issue, dealt with as such. Fine dust particles are a respiratory issue and need specific attention. Hope this helps some.